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Forthcoming Patch 23. Hercules, Tutorial and Map teaser


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9 minutes ago, admin said:

You can only see a top sail from 20 miles
You can judge a size of the ship by a top sail, but not a ship itself. 
One would argue that you cannot even judge the size of the fleet at all (if they are sailing in a line formation towards you). 

We know what we are taking out, but the visual recognition (especially in bad weather condition) will become a more integral part of the game and will bring both excitement AND frustration to OW combat - which is somewhat historical (given an abstract travel map) and this is the only way to implement this historical element.

 

What is the RL distance compared to tag circles?  Not every thing is 20 miles in game, if your that close than you should have more detail of the ship. I don't mind having less detail at a distance, but folks should be able to get more details than they do when they close in distance between two ships.  Ok how about you program it so that if your close enough to tag than all detial is found out about a ship than?  This is a game after all not real life and if you keep making it harder for the causal your going to loose players once again.  I honestly don't think ya'll even try to play and get feed back from them.   Most of the folks that love this are in nations with pretty much zero new players or causal so they love it, but when your dealing with a large player base of such you get first hand feed back of how much a pain this game is and lack of info they give up or stay in the safe zones.  

You say it will give more excitement and frustration, but all I hear in coms and TS is more Frustration and less excitement.   

8 minutes ago, Powderhorn said:

Regarding ship ID:  Just because Wally and his wife's second cousin saw the Acheron out of water doesn't mean that every ship could ID another from sight.

The French fought, I believe it was the Constellation during the Quasi-War and thought she was a fifty gunner, just because of the rate of fire!

Which was just fine with keeping the ratings of the ships.  Like I stated before most players can't even tell the difference between rated and none rated ships they never been in.  So even if it stats a 5th rate the majority of the players aren't going to know if it's an Indefatigable or Surprise unless they been in that ship, that a very big difference in ships when your tagging them.  Leave it to something small like that, not complete darkness of what they are about to fight.

Like I stated what next remove the BR counter?  Cause that seems to be the path your going towards.  Since I don't see any of you Devs or Mods or ELITE players playing in large pop nations that have a bunch of Casual you don't deal with the frustrations some of us deal with the new players and casuals and trying to get them into enjoying this game instead of just going out and being slaughter by Vets that just Seal CLUB instead of fighting each other.

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18 minutes ago, admin said:


Even Eve limits mission cancellations by a significant drop in agent reputation. 

If you want to talk about EVE, at least tell the whole truth and not just the part that is convenient for you.

In EVE you have dozens of other agents in nearby systems where you can take a mission in safe space. Here you have a cap of three refusal for ALL the missions in ALL the ports!

 

Edited by victor
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2 hours ago, NethrosDefectus said:

Is the open world geography getting an update? That map looks very confusing, much of it doesn't seem to correspond to the current map.

(As in, are geographical features being added/moved?)

its randomly placed islands, its just for an example of the artwork

 

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25 minutes ago, Christendom said:

Chain limited....but not repairs.  Sigh.  Get ready for the endless cycle of being tagged over and over on the OW.  

not sure if i am correct , but when chaine is limited 

repairs will be limited to ....accordingly

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1 hour ago, Powderhorn said:

People forget that mission spawn distance already is closer in the lower rank you are.  No more rear admirals cancelling missions over and over so they can grind first rates in peace.

Three a day is plenty for a casual player, who might only DO three missions in a day.

I don‘t like this limited possibilities of cancelation, because ...

1. I want to sort of chose if I want to play it easy and simply get some money and CM or if I want risk and PvP action.

2. The distances to sail for a mission are ridiculously long sometimes (at the other side of Jamaika and Cuba for instance).

3. Three cancelations are nothing! Devs might as well disable cancellations at all.

My suggestion:

We have ...

a ) PvP missions / zones,

b ) rare ressources outside of the safe zones

c ) and RvR.

This - adjusted and enhanced - will get players out of the safe zones and should suffice to get enough PvP going.

Therefore i’d vote for the following measures:

- Enable unlimited cancellations again / let them stay unlimited.

- Let PvE missions taken in a nations capital only spawn inside the safe zones.

This would enable comfortably earning safe money and CM as a kind of assurance. On such grounds players are able to flung themselves and the ships they want into risky PvP fights, because they‘d know how to get basic resources back.

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8 minutes ago, The Marinadtor said:

Well your argument is you play the game a certain way so if it caters to it then its good. My argument is that my understanding of what most PVE players want is hurt by this which would make it bad for alot of players, hurting the game in the long run by even worse player retention then currently. I don't see how your argument is valid in the context?

I'm not following your line of thought. It is too entangled between pve/pvp, sp/mp, risk/reward... no idea what you are trying to explain, not even what server you talking about. Sorry.

 

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7 minutes ago, rediii said:

But in eve you also couldnt fly the big ships in highsec is that right?

Big ships in EVE (titans, carriers, dreadhoughts) are much more than a first rate, they have a totally different gameplay then the other ships. Exluding maybe the carriers, they are very "niche" ships, each of their having a specific purpose.

I'd compare 1st rates to marauders, and in a marauder you can fly in high sec.

Edited by victor
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2 minutes ago, Hethwill said:

I'm not following your line of thought. It is too entangled between pve/pvp, sp/mp, risk/reward... no idea what you are trying to explain, not even what server you talking about. Sorry.

 

I believe he’s talking of PVE server.

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2 hours ago, Jake463 said:

I dont understand the reasoning behind the 3 cancellations a day ? surely this will make it harder for new players

 

you are totally right

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7 minutes ago, victor said:

Big ships in EVE (titans, carriers, dreadhoughts) are much more than a first rate, they have a totally different gameplay then the other ships.

I'd compare 1st rates to marauders, and a marauder you can fly in high sec.

well one exeption:  you can fly a dread ,but very very restricted and under certain conditions ( i do not reveal the true conditions here)

titan ,carriers:  NO.

Edited by Thonys
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2 minutes ago, rediii said:

But in eve you also couldnt fly the big ships in highsec is that right?

Correct, I think it was Dreadnoughts, Carriers and above you could not fly in secure space if I remember correctly. So again it boils down to choice. If I wanted to earn money to be able to afford such ships to pvp in I could earn it in secure space and then go out and fight and possibly lose it in 0.0. If I wanted to gain experience and do just missions I could in secure space. if I wanted to pvp I could go to un-secure space. I am talking about the CHOICE I had to PLAY the way that I wanted at that present time. That is why Eve had such a huge player base, it attracted all types of players of many differing skills and interests. And make the Devs a ton of money.

By the very nature of NA being an age of sail game, it will mainly attract certain types of players or curious players. Restricting the choice of how a person can play the game will not develop the game or allow it to grow. Look at the average number of players on each day even after the server mergers. The policy is still not increasing the player base so something must not be working. One of the definitions of madness  is "to keep doing the same thing each time and expecting a different result"

I run a small l PT business, I regularly look at my client base and say, I'm doing ok but what can I do to attract even more clients to take care of natural attrition. it seems to me ( and I may probably have got this wrong) that the devs see numbers reducing and say well we're losing players let's make it harder for the casual players that we still have and make it easier for the pvpers and gankers.

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1 minute ago, Hethwill said:

I'm not following your line of thought. It is too entangled between pve/pvp, sp/mp, risk/reward... no idea what you are trying to explain, not even what server you talking about. Sorry.

 

You stated that you didn't see how this change could negatively affect the PVE server. I stated that it probably will since most PVE players only like fighting and have to resort to missions to get their fix. If they have to sail for 30 minutes to get to a mission that is the equivalent of having to wait 30 minutes for matchmaking in another game, which I think most players simply wont do and therefore will leave this game to play something else. You then stated you liked sailing so the change doesn't matter. While it might be true to you it does not answer or counter my claims that player retention probably will be hurt because people don't want to wait to play.

In other posts I've argued why I think it is bad from a PVP perspective, but with you the discussion is PVE only.

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9 minutes ago, Sir Texas Sir said:

 

Which was just fine with keeping the ratings of the ships.  Like I stated before most players can't even tell the difference between rated and none rated ships they never been in.  So even if it stats a 5th rate the majority of the players aren't going to know if it's an Indefatigable or Surprise unless they been in that ship, that a very big difference in ships when your tagging them. 

Lets think this through together. 

  • If a player does not know the difference between indefatigable or surprise he will have trouble with or without text support for the visuals
  • If the players does know the difference between indefatigable or surprise he can easily judge which ship is this by just looking at the ship model.

Ship models are rather beautiful and detailed - you can see if it is indefatigable or wasa, visually.

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Just now, rediii said:

whats the titans etc. then in NA?

I would say 1sts have a different playstyle than 3rds aswell

It's long to explain. EVE is very complex. Much more than Naval Action. Not being elitist here, but simply not willing to write a wall of text.

to give you a rough idea: think to the difference that there is between a mortar brig and all other ships

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3 hours ago, admin said:

Standard hull and sail repair time has increased to 2 minutes 

2 mins seems a bit long time though, but we can test it and maybe drop down to 1 min or meet in the middle.  I don't think many folks are notice this part when they look at the chain limit, but hay lets test it out.  With the chance of less repairs, limit of how much chain you have and the increased damage of chain this should be an interesting new twist to fights instead of some one constantly spaming there sail repairs to keep a head of your as they fight.  Now you really have to pick which repairs your going to use.   My only issue is EPICS.  I have burned through a lot of repairs in these missions tanking damage. I feel they might become a bit harder for most players if you can only repair once ever 2 minutes.  They might need to be tweaked cause they where balanced with some one that could do multi repairs against them.  That and the spawn points makes it where pretty much one ship is isntant focus every time and almost sunk.  I would suggest taking a look at the epics and maybe move the spawn points back from each other to give the players chance to get into a formation and organized at the start to.  

3 hours ago, admin said:

Important. Final exam grants 2 rare items on completion: Hercules Frigate (ship note) and Naval Clock permanent upgrade. Use them wisely. 

Just wondering can these exams be done over and over or is the only way to redo them is to delete you char and start over?  I'm only asking cause if it's a one shot thing for these items per char than that makes them a bit more rare, but if some one can have an alt and just keep refarming these notes and upgrades that can be a bit abused?  

3 hours ago, admin said:

PvE missions cancellations are now limited by 3 per day

I can kidna see the reason for this, but the only issue i have is in some areas you have to change the missions cause where they drop.  When I was in Russia and take missions out of flats I would cancel any that fell on the south side of the island cause I didn't want to spend half a day going around the island to take a mission when I'm trying to grind up slots or something.   I really don't use this any where else cause I just pick an OW fleet and grind them for the most part, but I can see where some other locations they might spawn in a very bad place or distance a player doesn't want to travel too. I know most folks conceals them for two reason.  Get them closer to green zones and to stack them close to each other to save on sail time between each missions.

Will this effect hostility missions too?

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Just now, The Marinadtor said:

You stated that you didn't see how this change could negatively affect the PVE server. I stated that it probably will since most PVE players only like fighting and have to resort to missions to get their fix. If they have to sail for 30 minutes to get to a mission that is the equivalent of having to wait 30 minutes for matchmaking in another game, which I think most players simply wont do and therefore will leave this game to play something else. You then stated you liked sailing so the change doesn't matter. While it might be true to you it does not answer or counter my claims that player retention probably will be hurt because people don't want to wait to play.

In other posts I've argued why I think it is bad from a PVP perspective, but with you the discussion is PVE only.

Sorry mate but you don't have to sail for 30 mins if you don't like the order admiralty gave you.. 
All open world NPCs fleets have routes. If you know the routes you can fight them where they sail without spending any time. Thats how it was before mission introduction. 
 

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34 minutes ago, admin said:

Captain this is a friendly development forum where we all gathered to have a good time. The fact that you dont like something does not make it stupid. Such language makes it harder to connect with you and your feedback.

Cancellation limit is a step forward (the proper step would be complete removal of missions), limits on cancellations is a good compromise.

Admiralty sends you to the mission you honestly cannot argue with the mission location. Historically if you declined orders you would be demoted or fired.

Workaround is simple - If you dont like the mission - sail out to OW there are plenty of NPCs.
Or wait until next day. You get 3 more cancellations attempts. 
Even Eve limits mission cancellations by a significant drop in agent reputation. 

The proper step surely would not be the complete removal.

I could live with a longer way to missions if OW-„Sailing“ wouldn‘t be just „I‘m about there and I want to go somewhere over there so the course should be about that...now where is my book?“ but why should I watch my ship sailing without the need to do anything, only to risk that I lose a ship I spent hours of my time to get it by some gankers?

Like I said before not everyone has the time to play the whole day and limiting the time and fun of those with less time will just lead them away.

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5 minutes ago, admin said:

Lets think this through together. 

  • If a player does not know the difference between indefatigable or surprise he will have trouble with or without text support for the visuals
  • If the players does know the difference between indefatigable or surprise he can easily judge which ship is this by just looking at the ship model.

Ship models are rather beautiful and detailed - you can see if it is indefatigable or wasa, visually.

i agree

the only ship what can mess up your visual is the lgv and the belle,(what can give a surprise when enter battle )

but the rest is easy,,

we actually need more hull resemblance (warships),  similar to other traders ..LOL

Edited by Thonys
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31 minutes ago, admin said:

Cancellation limit is a step forward (the proper step would be complete removal of missions), limits on cancellations is a good compromise.

Admiralty sends you to the mission you honestly cannot argue with the mission location. Historically if you declined orders you would be demoted or fired.

I like this i deletet my Char befor the redem-wipe. I have done around 10-15 missions the rest is OW-Npc's and PvP now im Rank Demon/Flag Captain. I play sometimes only 2h a Day or every second Day, on WE there is more time for me so i can play 5/6+hours. I got no problem to play the way without Missions. I woud like too see missions only avaible until you reached Master and Commander. But with the new Tutorial everybody will reach M&C Rank as far i know.

@admin Will the  Hercules Frigate be Redemable every day like Yacht?

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2 minutes ago, admin said:

Sorry mate but you don't have to sail for 30 mins if you don't like the order admiralty gave you.. 
All open world NPCs fleets have routes. If you know the routes you can fight them where they sail without spending any time. Thats how it was before mission introduction. 
 

Yes, people don't have to, but I think people will then rather just play something else. And I understand there are patterns to where to find NPC fleets, but from my view they are to few to reliably be a source of combat in high population areas like KPR, and therefore people play missions.

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3 hours ago, admin said:
  • Chain shot are now limited by 2 shots per gun. This will not require a perk or acquisition of ammo. 
  • Chain damage greatly increased

4 broadside of stronger chain vs unlimited rig repairs.... Chain was strong enough to do 25% to 30% damage to sail in one broadside  already and now it's more? Why not limit repairs to 3 overall, leave chain damage and give people 4 chains per gun... All I know for certain is that unlimited repairs has been the worst design choice ever to this game because no matter what the current meta is, unlimited repairs make the meta worse.... There is nothing tactical to the combat system anymore other than repair times... Not even the battle for the wind matters because wind shifts every 15 min. You allways say it's an alpha and we need to test. Test  3 repairs again because it worked and no one complained. Also the wind is shifting at predictable times and to often. This is bad. 

 

Edited by HachiRoku
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8 minutes ago, admin said:

Sorry mate but you don't have to sail for 30 mins if you don't like the order admiralty gave you.. 
All open world NPCs fleets have routes. If you know the routes you can fight them where they sail without spending any time. Thats how it was before mission introduction. 
 

perhaps silly question,and slip of the mind... 

but ,do we have the sailing route on paper for the ships who have the rare books ?

(content??)

Edited by Thonys
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2 hours ago, victor said:

If missions are outside safe zones, gankers can enter your mission and sink you with relative ease (you are already fighting a NPC of your level, in missions there are no reinforcement spawning and then you have to face a player as well). So basically giving PVP players more chance to easily sink missions runners is the ultimate reason of this change.

maybe the intentions are to let the players explore the map instead of having 10k hours of playtime around jamaica?

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32 minutes ago, Sovereign said:

I love and appreciate your passion for realism and historical accuracy in NA.

 That realism seems to only apply to certain things.  I have a hunch that Nelson wasn't able to repair his ship to an almost "like new" condition every 15mins.  Or was he?

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