Jump to content
Game-Labs Forum
admin

Reinforcements update

Recommended Posts

Guest
12 hours ago, victor said:

Ok, your position is clear and fair. But I wonder now why other skilled PVPers - instead of asking for what you are asking here - have been bothering the devs for ages on the forum with their endless requests of a nerf (if not a wipe) of the safe zones.

How does Spain hold so many ports I wonder..... They are trading and PvE'ing. As long as RvR has a meaning for players ability to craft, trade and hold space from others - then it should be a priority for any nation to seek to intercept and destroy the enemy nations capability to grind money for the maintenance. Is this reasonable? - no but I didn't make the mechanics. A simple solution is to remove safezones and make missions close instantaneously. This would give the casual PvE'er a way to do his gameplay on a PvP server, and the traders would be at risk which they should be - If the nation that has the ports wants to keep the ports it should be obliged to keep its traders safe so it can pay the upkeeps.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest
11 minutes ago, Macjimm said:

So much hate directed at PvE players.  I like trading and fishing, but  I enjoy a certain amount of risk.   I used to play on the PvE server but now use the Caribbean server all the time.  Trading with players is interesting and having danger areas of conflict adds excitement.  Ridiculing and insulting traders, because they prefer not to fight, won't increase the number of combatants for PvP.   I just don't understand how the presence of some players who want to avoid battles destroys the game.   Just pretend that the carebear is not there, ... in a little safezone.  Or perhaps make a very small safezone very close to the capital.

 

 

 

 

 

I can't speak for others but I don't "hate" PvE - I just recognize that this IS a PvP server AND PvE and trading has DIRECT affects on economy. AND I recognize that economy and logistics are the prerequisites for RvR - which is a requirement for succesfull trading.

EDIT: And I don't mind traders being afraid to fight - no one has ever won a battle in an indiaman against an experienced PvP'er, which is as it should be - the risk for the trader should be in relation to the rewards. A single traderun pays my indiamans, the next is pure profit and the chance of losing a ship is miniscule. If money and trading is to have any meaning in this game then there has to be risks. And when it's directly affecting a nations ability to hold on to territory then I believe it should be possible for a nation to prevent another nations trade. How does a smaller nation force a larger one to come to terms? - by denying the larger nations access to ressources. How does a larger nation impose its will on a smaller one? - by blockading the enemys points of access.

Who reinvented the convoy system? - the dutch. Why? - Because they were under heavy pressure from the spanish privateers sailing out of Dunkirk in the Spanish Netherlands. Where have the largest battlefleet engagements occured? - the North sea and the channel area. Why? - Because the economies of England and the Dutch were solely dependant on commerce and both countries were at risk of being blockaded by one another in the 17th century. 

Edited by Guest

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
55 minutes ago, Macjimm said:

So much hate directed at PvE players.  I like trading and fishing, but  I enjoy a certain amount of risk.   I used to play on the PvE server but now use the Caribbean server all the time.  Trading with players is interesting and having danger areas of conflict adds excitement.  Ridiculing and insulting traders, because they prefer not to fight, won't increase the number of combatants for PvP.   I just don't understand how the presence of some players who want to avoid battles destroys the game.   Just pretend that the carebear is not there, ... in a little safezone.  Or perhaps make a very small safezone very close to the capital.

absolutely this. We're looking for pure PVP mechanics not something that has anything to do with traders. Simple fact is combat should be happening around the outmost ports of a territory. Not dead in the middle where we have our PvErs, noobs and people who are in that area for the exact reason of getting away from PVP.

Devs have the power of pvp mission placing, put some where regular PvPers SHOULD be hunting, don't even make it different ROE, just call it a mission and leave the rest up to the player to figure out. Very little objective, see what it does.

 

Edited by Slim McSauce
  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, Lars Kjaer said:

How does Spain hold so many ports I wonder..... They are trading and PvE'ing. As long as RvR has a meaning for players ability to craft, trade and hold space from others - then it should be a priority for any nation to seek to intercept and destroy the enemy nations capability to grind money for the maintenance. Is this reasonable? - no but I didn't make the mechanics. A simple solution is to remove safezones and make missions close instantaneously. This would give the casual PvE'er a way to do his gameplay on a PvP server, and the traders would be at risk which they should be - If the nation that has the ports wants to keep the ports it should be obliged to keep its traders safe so it can pay the upkeeps.

I still never understand why people keep thinking that safe zones allow people to make lots of money trading. All the big money trade routes require a lot of time spent out in the OW not in safe zones. The traders who do these runs take time to plan their runs and choose their routes so they are least likely to be intercepted. The only issue I see that people can complain about is the ability to get over half way to your destination and then use the tow to port function to get to your destination or to a port in the safe zone (maybe they could change this so that tow to port takes you back to the last port you departed from as it is needed in case people get stuck).

People can seek these traders if they work out where their routes are, but most are too lazy and just want to sit outside the destination ports and wait for them to arrive. I have yet to find any profitable trade route with trade goods that can be done completely in the safe zone, there may be some zones where profit can be made from crafting woods but even then the profit is not from selling to NPC.

Fighting AI makes more money than trading for the time spent and if it is just gold you are after then you may as well just do missions that instantly close rather than attack OW AI fleets. The only advantage of attacking OW AI fleets is the increased chance of loot and this is why so many people farm them.

If you removed safe zones but made missions close instantly you would still have the issue of people getting ganked on their way to/from missions, so you would not have solved the issue for PvE'ers playing on PvP server.

If you really wanted to shake things up then make it so that fighting whether it is PvE or PvP is a money sink and that money can only be made from trading. That way trading becomes very important and it becomes worthwhile protecting traders and keeping their cargoes, while PvE'ers can make their money from selling combat marks and loot and PvP'ers can make their money from selling PvP marks.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, Otto Kohl said:

No it doesn't. Yesterday I made 70 millions by trading. Time spent for buying stuff and moving it during a week - maybe 2h in total.

teach me master

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 hours ago, Otto Kohl said:

No it doesn't. Yesterday I made 70 millions by trading. Time spent for buying stuff and moving it during a week - maybe 2h in total.

Well you are not trading in trade goods if you can do that. Sure some rare crafting goods and items for books and upgrades can make that much in that time but general trade goods cannot. About the best profit I have seen on general trade goods is around 750k per Indiaman and for that you probably have to sail at least 1 hour to deliver it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 minutes ago, Otto Kohl said:

Profit per Indiaman 1,6 mil. Oh i have 4 accounts, thats why its not that time consuming.

You still do not say whether it is trade goods you are trading or crafting goods.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, Otto Kohl said:

Trade good.

Fair enough, you have obviously found a better trade item than I was able to. But I would still stand by my original comment that in general terms it is easier to make money from fighting AI in PvE than trading as not everyone can do the same trade you are doing as the items are limited and not everyone runs multiple accounts (although the way the game is going multiple accounts are becoming a necessity).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 9/4/2018 at 8:38 PM, Moria15 said:

To get back on topic..  why do battles close anyway outside the green zones...  shouldn't they stay always open as in real life, or does that not fit in with the "gank" mentallity that protects the person that calles simple ganking PvP?

They should stay open forever only to join the weaker side imho

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I did a trade run last night.  I  prepared a course far away from the shoreline to avoid hunters.  I sailed for about 1 hr and 20 min, as fast as my ship would go.  I often sail slowly, but I had a limited time to dedicate to NA last night.   It all felt a little frantic, trying to keep track of the time,  plotting my position on a map, adjusting for course correction, destroying salt and fish so I could still pick up a bottle if one floated by and all the time scanning for hunters.  I came across one US 5th rate about 15 minutes into the trip.  She crossed my bow and as I cruised by she turned, and for a moment I thought she might pursue.  It was a tense moment. I saw one other ship that appeared to approach but my ship was faster and I slowly left her behind.  I miss being able to hail ships from other nations.  The interaction between captains has been very satisfying and I've had great conversations with other traders and hunters, even some who have defeated me.   They have always been respectful and the communication enriched the experience.

My destination was a county capital: One where I have been jumped previously, before there were reinforcement zones.  An escort sacrificed his ship  there, to save mine, once before.  As I neared the capital it was reassuring to know that I was in a reinforcement zone.  I was able to reduce sail and dock without being in a blind rush.   This time I made it into port and made $150k plus.  Without an escort.  Other times I have not been so lucky.  

I didn't find the trip boring because for almost all of the journey I was at risk, and I was always busy.   Sailing full speed was a challenge. There was no time to make notes about the various shiping activity,  in my log.  If at the end every journey I will have to run a gantlet in the high speed motor sailboat, the enjoyment will be diminished.  It would be a shame to reduce such a rich game to simple fast reaction hand eye co-ordination, at the end of every run, rather than strategy and timing.

I hope this new change means that I can approach a capital with confidence.   Looking forward to testing it. 

Edited by Macjimm
  • Like 4

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 4/10/2018 at 12:15 PM, victor said:

Ok, your position is clear and fair. But I wonder now why other skilled PVPers - instead of asking for what you are asking here - have been bothering the devs for ages on the forum with their endless requests of a nerf (if not a wipe) of the safe zones.

I can tell you why. Because we want pvp, the solution isnt nerfing safezones, its facilitating pvp elsewhere with ow rvr incentives, pvp missions and interactive fort spotting

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 11.04.2018 at 7:14 AM, Slim McSauce said:

absolutely this. We're looking for pure PVP mechanics not something that has anything to do with traders. Simple fact is combat should be happening around the outmost ports of a territory. Not dead in the middle where we have our PvErs, noobs and people who are in that area for the exact reason of getting away from PVP.

Devs have the power of pvp mission placing, put some where regular PvPers SHOULD be hunting, don't even make it different ROE, just call it a mission and leave the rest up to the player to figure out. Very little objective, see what it does.

 

That's why this game is losing players all of the time. look around for any successful MMO's sandbox. pvp cannot be more then 30-40% of the game content (EVE online, WoW, Albion, etc.).  It is the same rule leading real live. if you push to only pvp this game will end with ~100 players which will cry about lack of targets.  Many MMO's that try to stick purely to pvp died (Warhammer, etc.). So if you want this game to grow and have more target you have accept fact that MMO requires huge pve part.  If not game will die. 

That is a problem that developers does not understand it here.

Edited by Testosteron
  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Nah. I always quit when I end up in a fps with bots in it.

No. Cheaper ships to loose is the way to go. And a logbook for each player....

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 4/10/2018 at 11:13 AM, fox2run said:

Why don't you understand that it is never the players fault if a game population fails?

The game lacks fun. It had some of it back in 2016. 

I have made a lot of feedback on this. But I'm met with an army of bezzerwizzers. If I don't find the game fun, it's my own fault.

Ok. What about this: NA is crappy and gets bad reviews. It's a bad game with big flaws.

You can change things or you can blame the players.

What do you think will work the best?

Have fun blaming, dude.

Well play another game lol. The game is for hardcore players who love the hardcore game, not for the developers money or for players who don’t see the developers game to be fun. If the game ain’t for you, it ain’t for you, move on and stop whining.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 hours ago, Vile Executioner said:

Well play another game lol. The game is for hardcore players who love the hardcore game, not for the developers money or for players who don’t see the developers game to be fun. If the game ain’t for you, it ain’t for you, move on and stop whining.

Not a good excuse. The game has more problems than just being too hardcore. A lot of the mechanics don't make sense or fit with the theme of the game. A lot of exploits and cheesy bugs still plague the OW, the sandbox still for the most part wide as an ocean, deep as a puddle. 

I say it always but ow pvp is still being directed towards capitals and freezones. A HUGE gameplay paradox where you're suppose to be safe but being exposed to the most danger, while also having this massive highly detailed map with nothing guiding players through it. There's a real lack of psychological push and gameplay stimulation. You're very much expected to mentally fill in the gaps in many aspects to be able to tolerate the gameplay. Wouldn't say that's an affect of the game but a defect.

Granted, the devs have gotten better keeping consistent in their patches, going towards a single goal. But there's still a lot of mess left over and a big part of it is the idea that this game runs, and runs well off of.. 

1. Very little information given to the player

2. Very little guidance on OW, nothing visually representative to gauge the state of conflict in game

3. Very little to no representation of land through gameplay. You get forts and ports but otherwise the only thing land serves is to shape the map, no economic or logistic aspects spur from coastal areas. It's all very you are a ship, and nothing exists in this game besides ships.

4. Being as inaccessible as possible without being literally glued to the game 7 hours a day catching all the battle news, conversations in chat and all hot locations of the day.

This isn't being hardcore, it's downright blindingly disconnected and incoherent. It's very hard to put life into this game when the game itself emits so little life to begin with. Nearly everything OW involved feels bizarre and desolate and disconnected. It reminds me a bit of this video lol

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O6ScJLIp3Z8 (watch at your own discretion, it's not bad but not exactly pleasant)

Like you'd think you'd get a sense for the world beyond yourself and other players, a bustling 18th century caribbean, civilians, dockmasters, shop owners, military men, ants to you and your magnificent ship but still having an effect on the world (which is compressed and tabletop looking but doesn't mean it can't fit the mark)

But no, the OW is like the psychological horror of a realistic 18th century setting where nothing but overly sized ships exist, no people but the robot-like crew on bored and the invisible men manning the guns. No city has any population or traffic, just items and ships lol. No information is available to you. The admiralty is like your overlord but it's not a person or even a group of people. It's a entity that has no tangible body. It just sells you things and gives you obscure missions to attack bizarre AI that sails in fixed lines back and forth back and forth waiting to be slaughtered.

Doomed, in this world you are to fend for yourself like a stray dog, no one or nothing to guide you but yourself and the other captains doomed to the sea. God has abandoned you and you no longer receive signs from above to guide you on your path. Nothing is laid out for you, the only people who remain are  the ones who can loosely connect the dots of this disenfranchised world that you try to immerse yourself in and find tangible purpose.

so yea, still not there yet.

 

Edited by Slim McSauce
  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Vile Executioner said:

Well play another game lol. The game is for hardcore players who love the hardcore game, not for the developers money or for players who don’t see the developers game to be fun. If the game ain’t for you, it ain’t for you, move on and stop whining.

Hardcore players? The game seems to be more hello kitty than ever for the so called "hardcore" players. One easy mode patch after the other.

"We get killed to chain, limit it"

"We cant gank and outnumber people enough in safe zones, limit it!"


Don't try and tell me this is hardcore when you advocate for carebears online in your favour. The reinforcement zone is a problem for the defender, not any kind of help.

Edited by Jesper Dahl
Wording

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

W

4 hours ago, Jesper Dahl said:

Hardcore players? The game seems to be more hello kitty than ever for the so called "hardcore" players. One easy mode patch after the other.

"We get killed to chain, limit it"

"We cant gank and outnumber people enough in safe zones, limit it!"


Don't try and tell me this is hardcore when you advocate for carebears online in your favour. The reinforcement zone is a problem for the defender, not any kind of help.

Well admin have wrote a couple of comments, that have me think how this game could turn.

- The want hardcore

- The will have ppl to do PvP

No captains have done his career any good by refuse an ordre.

So how may such a game look like.

- remove all AI. You wants fun, do PvP

- No patrol area.

- When you log in there is an ordre from the admiralty(Go somewhere and sink an enemy ship.) you get 48 hours to do it. Refuse an ordre and you get demoted a rank. 3 time you refuse an ordre, you get demoted to start rank.

- No safezone ore closing battle

- No invisibility ore wind advantage after a battle.

- Limited all ammo for each fight. Can’t kill it with that you have, well tough, But it is a hardcore game.

RvR

- No timer and no waiting, just attack the port. You can’t defend, your problem. The enemy don’t tell you in advance when they Attack. Now we 24 hours to prepare. That isent hardcore.

-You cant teleport a ship to an port been attacked, dont have a ship there, well then sail.

The wolf(top PvP playrs)

- There will be a list counting 5 days back. Nr 1 is the one with have gotten must PvP marks. Lest say top 25, they are the wolf in the game.

-The Wolfs, is the elite in the nation, so the admiralty have higher demands. They will also get an ordre, but only have 24 hours to do it. Because they are the elite, small ships and traders don’t count.

- If they get killed ore fail, they loose 1 rank. They don’t take the ordre, they will get demoted 2 ranks.

Yes it is a bit harder to be a wolf. But is should be tough to be at top of the foodchain.

Think this version would be hardcore. Any other version is just a question on who you want to make easy mode for the sheep ore the wolf.

Edited by staun

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 hours ago, Slim McSauce said:

Not a good excuse. The game has more problems than just being too hardcore. A lot of the mechanics don't make sense or fit with the theme of the game. A lot of exploits and cheesy bugs still plague the OW, the sandbox still for the most part wide as an ocean, deep as a puddle. 

I say it always but ow pvp is still being directed towards capitals and freezones. A HUGE gameplay paradox where you're suppose to be safe but being exposed to the most danger, while also having this massive highly detailed map with nothing guiding players through it. There's a real lack of psychological push and gameplay stimulation. You're very much expected to mentally fill in the gaps in many aspects to be able to tolerate the gameplay. Wouldn't say that's an affect of the game but a defect.

Granted, the devs have gotten better keeping consistent in their patches, going towards a single goal. But there's still a lot of mess left over and a big part of it is the idea that this game runs, and runs well off of 

1. Very little information given to the player

2. Very little guidance on OW, nothing visually representative to gauge the state of conflict in game

3. Very little to no representation of land through gameplay. You get forts and ports but otherwise the only thing land serves is to shape the map, no economic or logistic aspects spur from coastal areas. It's all very you are a ship, and nothing exists in this game besides ships.

4. Being as inaccessible as possible without being literally glued to the game 7 hours a day catching all the battle news, conversations in chat and all hot locations of the day.

This isn't being hardcore, it's downright blindingly disconnected and incoherent. It's very hard to put life into this game when the game itself expels so little life to begin with. Nearly everything OW involved feels bizarre and desolate and disconnected. It reminds me a bit of this video lol

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O6ScJLIp3Z8 (watch at your own discretion, it's not bad but not exactly pleasant)

Like you'd think you'd get a sense for the world beyond yourself and other players, a bustling 18th century caribbean, civilians, dockmasters, shop owners, military men, ants to you and your magnificent ship but still having an effect on the world (which is compressed and tabletop looking but doesn't mean it can't fit the mark)

But no, the OW is like the psychological horror of a realistic 18th century setting where nothing but overly sized ships exist, no people but the robot-like crew on bored and the invisible men manning the guns. No city has any population or traffic, just items and ships lol. No information is available to you. The admiralty is like your overlord but it's not a person or even a group of people. It's a entity that has no tangible body. It just sells you things and gives you obscure missions to attack bizarre AI that sails in fixed lines back and forth back and forth waiting to be slaughtered.

Doomed, in this world you are to fend for yourself like a stray dog, no one or nothing to guide you but yourself and the other captains doomed to the sea. God has abandoned you and you no longer receive signs from above to guide you on your path. Nothing is laid out for you, the only people who remain are  the ones who can loosely connect the dots of this disenfranchised world that you try to immerse yourself in and find tangible purpose.

so yea, still not there yet.

 

I’m not gonna read your book, I’m restating what @adminsaid. No one cares for those who expect to have their hand held

4981A759-F7DE-411A-B880-16F85F7A5FA3.png

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
28 minutes ago, Vile Executioner said:

I’m not gonna read your book, I’m restating what @adminsaid. No one cares for those who expect to have their hand held

 

Then they should stop Holding hands for all kind of players, 

Soft players got 

- Reinforcement

- Green zone

- Can drop 3 missions.

Hard playrs got

- Battle jumping

- battle closes,  is an advantage for the hunter

- invisibility and wind advantage after a fight.

- limited chain, Think that helps the good PvP more than the soft player. But they havn’t limited balls, don’t get why not. Unless it is hand holding.

Pretty sure ppl can come up with more mechanic, that are hand holding. They should just purge the game for it. Also when they are on it, Lose ship knowledge and upgrades.

So less handholding for all and more skill.

Edited by staun

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Vile Executioner said:

I’m not gonna read your book, I’m restating what @adminsaid. No one cares for those who expect to have their hand held

HAHAHHA! If that's a book to you then I congratulate you on your 3rd grade education sir, not many of us make it so far! 

You definitely have all the brawns to still be a part of a fleet, but lead it? I dunno. Gotta be able to skim for that :D

Edited by Slim McSauce

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 4/22/2018 at 3:50 AM, Vile Executioner said:

Well play another game lol. The game is for hardcore players who love the hardcore game, not for the developers money or for players who don’t see the developers game to be fun. If the game ain’t for you, it ain’t for you, move on and stop whining.

Careful on what you wish for. In the end of the day a game is a product, and if it's not viable anymore it will end.

I'm sure most of the players here had experience with games shutting down, and it's a shame when a game dies before it's time. It's very common now to see developers lost with lack of consensus in the player base, and games going thru development hell hole. You might get what you want, the ultimate hardcore game, but it will probably not last.

Edited by Jim Tiberius

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 4/22/2018 at 8:50 AM, Vile Executioner said:

Well play another game lol. The game is for hardcore players who love the hardcore game, not for the developers money or for players who don’t see the developers game to be fun. If the game ain’t for you, it ain’t for you, move on and stop whining.

Made a good laugh...I don’t see anything hardcore in this game where a simple turn that would take hours in real life can be achieved in one or two minutes...sailing is pretty straight forward, not that complicated...even the shooting is simplified.

Hardcore would be doing it like in real life, but then on the other hand I would have officers and gunners who can think for 2 cents and don’t shoot when there is not target in front of them.

The only „hardcore“ things are game mechanics that make some pretty straight forward things unnecessary complicated.

 

Oh, and every game is „for the developers money“ because, we’ll, they want to earn money with it.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Borch said:

How does it look after a week of testing in developers view? Good, bad? How does the stats from combats in reinforcements zone look (percentage wise combat won by deffenders with reinforcements and by attackers without)? Did you got rid of players that needs their hand held already or need more time? Did we already had increased number of PvP players logging and decreased logins of PvE crowd? Any thoughts?

Think we would have to have admin delivere what you ask for,  but if we look at the chart I have linked. We have a lose in both peak players and in avg players. My guess is what thise numbers means is, players spend less time on the game. That don't have to be a bad thing ofc.  There may  be many reasons for ppl players spend less time in the game. Just look at the weather ottside. Soon we all will be on the beach and looking at young girls in a bikini.

I do belive the last patches starting with the merge and then until now, just slowly have drained ppl's fun in the game. Tutorial was a good thing. Did like the last test was hard, unless you chose to take on easy mode, with a boarding ore demast. But in my opinion the only decent change we have had lately is that one.

http://steamcharts.com/app/311310

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


×
×
  • Create New...