Reinforcements update

jodgi · April 6, 2018

2 hours ago, Tac said:

and alts are the children of Satan

Oh!... But that makes me...

Tac · April 6, 2018

4 minutes ago, jodgi said:

Oh!... But that makes me...

Even the offspring of beelzebub can repent young man , burn your fir fir monstrosity ‘s and turn your back on your alt, take the pure path to Pvp heaven.

Kloothommel · April 6, 2018

Compare it to EVE high-sec vs low-sec.

There are a lot of EVE players that never leave high sec. Because they would be wrecked in low-sec, because ships, modules etc or just not liking the dog-eat-dog gameplay.

Diminishing the protected zones in NA would be the same as diminishing high-sec in EVE. You would trash the playerbase that wants to pve and only pvp when it is convenient them due to time restraints.

The expectations in NA are comparable. Just play and let play, if people choose to play a certain way. From PVE players fresh OW PVp must grow, just let them grow first instead of wanting to get easy kills outside capitals.

Because the "good pvp" is only on the side that wins easy. You know who you are.

Edited April 6, 2018 by Cornelius Trash

Sir Texas Sir · April 6, 2018

2 hours ago, Tac said:

Tbh if you Aren,t in my nation your an enemy as far as Pvp goes , and alts are the children of Satan so for me it makes no consequence , I suppose if you have so many people you don’t want to fight because your friendly with so many other nations or people I guess I can see how it gets old quickly.

Still prefer the no name surprise tho , for me it won’t get old for me .

I have always told my clan mates that if your alt gets busted by any one it's your own problem and i have 5 chars, but I tend to always have 4 in the nation I'm playing and the 1 extra is in another nation for econ or other reason. I don't even tell most my clan mates the chars name cause I don't want them to know or worry about it and if I need to change goods with that char I meet at a Freetown to do it or some where off the beaten path. Cause they should be treated like any other player of that nation.

Though I do think clans should be able to make alliances with other clans of other nations even if it's by word of mouth. What if say CSA (my clan) doesn't like VCO (Wraith's clan) than I could say higher your clan to attack them and take out there trade ships and mess up there econ by attacking there ports only. The port part isn't a problem cause we all know what ports are owned by what nation, but if we are going off the trade ships in OW you can't tell them apart without tagging. The same goes with two clans that are fighting for two diffrent nations. How do we know which ones to tag or not? I think if anything you should be able to have another friendly clan list, but none national that allows you to see those players in those clans info in the OW.

2 hours ago, Wraith said:

For you and me that work just fine, but for others it's a huge barrier. I know that for some players it actually deters them from PvP rather than encourages it, since fear of the unknown is a more powerful motivator than fear of the known. The, "what if that's an elite PvP'er!!1! RUN," type of thing discourages from people running out to snag a player that they otherwise might have a good fight with, etc.

If I see two pirate groups attack two diffrent groups of US players and I know one clan is elite I might want to join that fight instead of the others knowing they can take on the lesser pirates. Right now we wouldn't know which group is which until after the battle starts and that might be to late to join.

I'll be honest the no name thing is starting to grow on em but I just wish there was a way to get info in OW. Maybe you have to be stationary and click on something so it's not something you can do on the fly while chasing some one down for a tag. It just would be nice to say well that group of pirates sitting over there is freindly and helping us, but the one on the other side are the bad guys so watch out for them.

Last weekend at Kemps Bay there was what half a dozen Nations fighting around that area: Pirates, Prussians, Russians, Spanish, Swedes, and US off the top of my head. We honestly wasn't sure who was going to be friend or foe in some of the fights. I think in the battle against the pirates the Prussians joined our side when normally we would be fighting each other or something like that. It was great chaos and fun too, but kinda crazy all rolled into one.

Moria15 · April 6, 2018

1 hour ago, Cornelius Trash said:

Compare it to EVE high-sec vs low-sec.

There are a lot of EVE players that never leave high sec. Because they would be wrecked in low-sec, because ships, modules etc or just not liking the dog-eat-dog gameplay.

Diminishing the protected zones in NA would be the same as diminishing high-sec in EVE. You would trash the playerbase that wants to pve and only pvp when it is convenient them due to time restraints.

The expectations in NA are comparable. Just play and let play, if people choose to play a certain way. From PVE players fresh OW PVp must grow, just let them grow first instead of wanting to get easy kills outside capitals.

Because the "good pvp" is only on the side that wins easy. You know who you are.

You're missing 3 vital facts in you're comparison.

1) There are degrees of High sec in Eve, and depending on the level, will also depend on the reinforcements you get and how quickly. In fact in High sec, it is almost quaranteed that the ganker will loose their ship as well to Concorde. Now a well organised Gank fleet will still go ahead on the off-chance that they can loot the ship "ganked" before other friendlies come by. but the only guarantee is that the initial attacking player WILL loose their ship as well. You want to be the "oh look at me I can gank a trader.. I'm so wonderful and such a hard-core player" population of much of Naval Action actually also has to decide risk v reward in both high and low sec zones.

2) Trading is worth doing in Eve because there is an economy.. you can trade in high sec for lower value trades, or low sec for the really good stuff, but you CAN exist, if you want to in pure high sec space relatively safely. 8 years into Eve and I have only lost a ship in High sec a couple of times and that includes flying fully loaded high value cargo ships to the main trading hubs. (Not gonna talk about the number I have lost in Low sec or killed in Low sec),

3) Theres a population in Eve that makes it worth doing anything, whether it's trading, port battles (system takeovers and station fights), or just OW PvP.

Eve online is a true OW PvP environment that is set up for all to play and has casuals through to serious hard-core PvP'ers.. against which most of the players in the PvP server here wouldn't stand a chance against and thats why it is still played 14 years after launch as opposed to dying before it's even out of Alpha.

Final comparison.. Eve online 175,000 unique players a day and as a F2P game now.. it still made $86 million and change in 2016. Compare that against whatever you want.

M

Edited April 6, 2018 by Moria15

Hethwill · April 6, 2018

7 minutes ago, Moria15 said:

Final comparison

Subscription based - should've been the Start and Final comparison.

Bombardier · April 6, 2018

Hello. How buffed are they compared to normal npcs?

Edited April 6, 2018 by Bombardier

Moria15 · April 6, 2018

3 minutes ago, Hethwill said:

Subscription based - should've been the Start and Final comparison.

Eve Online hasn't required a subscription for 2 years now for 90% of the content.. it's basically a F2P with money for speeding things up and some bits and bobs like skill injectors.

M

Edited April 6, 2018 by Moria15

Hethwill · April 6, 2018

1 minute ago, Moria15 said:

Eve Online hasn't required a subscription for 2 years now for 90% of the content.. it's basically a F2P with money for speeding things up.

M

Can you repeat 90% three times three ?... Do not for once try to claim that subscription based is not worth it and that it is a F2P. Free to try, by all means.

This is Naval Action, not Eve. Is one time buy. 100%

April 6, 2018

1 hour ago, Cornelius Trash said:

Compare it to EVE high-sec vs low-sec.

There are a lot of EVE players that never leave high sec. Because they would be wrecked in low-sec, because ships, modules etc or just not liking the dog-eat-dog gameplay.

Diminishing the protected zones in NA would be the same as diminishing high-sec in EVE. You would trash the playerbase that wants to pve and only pvp when it is convenient them due to time restraints.

The expectations in NA are comparable. Just play and let play, if people choose to play a certain way. From PVE players fresh OW PVp must grow, just let them grow first instead of wanting to get easy kills outside capitals.

Because the "good pvp" is only on the side that wins easy. You know who you are.

Except here high-sec directly affects the ability of a nation to project power into low-sec areas.. And there's an entire pacific that could be opened up for PvE players.. Or... they could use the PvE server.. Any comparison to Eve is a flawed comparison anyway, the player demographic expects something else in Eve than they do in a sailing ship era game. I don't mind players playing PvE - I just mind it when they affect RvR, PvP and the map as it is. Remove trading and crafting from the safezones and the PvE'ers could PvE and the RvR/PvP players could PvP/RvR.. as it is it's impossible to starve an enemy out of their ports..

Kloothommel · April 6, 2018

48 minutes ago, Lars Kjaer said:

Except here high-sec directly affects the ability of a nation to project power into low-sec areas.. And there's an entire pacific that could be opened up for PvE players.. Or... they could use the PvE server.. Any comparison to Eve is a flawed comparison anyway, the player demographic expects something else in Eve than they do in a sailing ship era game. I don't mind players playing PvE - I just mind it when they affect RvR, PvP and the map as it is. Remove trading and crafting from the safezones and the PvE'ers could PvE and the RvR/PvP players could PvP/RvR.. as it is it's impossible to starve an enemy out of their ports..

But you force the casual player to invest more time.

Every time admin caters to the hardcore pvp crowd, usernumbers drop.

And the hardcore pvp crowd complains about a lack of targets and wants even less pve content. Corellation?

Christendom · April 6, 2018

4 hours ago, Tac said:

Not saying that isn’t true ( I mean it’s unprovable) but I just find that sort of timidness so hard to believe .

All you really need to know is that since the time of the patch, which included patrol zones, no ship names and port cost increases....the overall game population and activity if you will, has diminished. There are less PBs, smaller amounts of fights in the patrol zones and what little OW pvp we did have prior to the patrol zones seems to have dried up for the most part unless you are outside KPR or Ctown.

https://gyazo.com/6f74710c0126d95fe79a255e5e2b2ce5

it appears things have been steadily trending downward since the post merge bump in activity. March saw a fairly large patch release changing things up and we typically see a slight increase in numbers when those hit.

No bueno

Tac · April 6, 2018

44 minutes ago, Christendom said:

All you really need to know is that since the time of the patch, which included patrol zones, no ship names and port cost increases....the overall game population and activity if you will, has diminished. There are less PBs, smaller amounts of fights in the patrol zones and what little OW pvp we did have prior to the patrol zones seems to have dried up for the most part unless you are outside KPR or Ctown.

https://gyazo.com/6f74710c0126d95fe79a255e5e2b2ce5

it appears things have been steadily trending downward since the post merge bump in activity. March saw a fairly large patch release changing things up and we typically see a slight increase in numbers when those hit.

No bueno

If your conclusion of this is because of "no player Names" i would say in the extreme it's a tenuous link at best, paying for ports means there is less pb's,less fight's in patrol zones is because after the first few it's the same as sea trial's on repeat but with uneven teams, and unless you are screening,or lucky enough to pass someone in OW there is no one to fight unless you go to tortue or tumbado.

Only reason people sail to capitals is because they only gank,or because thats where you can guarantee players are,or your looking to hunt the hunter's,if there is enemy outside your capital you don't need a name to know it's a good pvper because new players don't do that .if i am not swedish and i sail to carta every night i would never get a fight because there is nobody there and thats a lucrative port,you can probably say that about 80-90% of the ports on the map,forget names there's just nobody there.

For an experienced clan like the one i sail in that are primarily PVP they prefer no names but just took a break because PVP in general is like finding rocking horse shit atm .

Think about the biggest number's we have had,you even had to queue to play and there were no safezone's at all,although i for one have conceded new players need some sort of safe space.

victor · April 6, 2018

2 hours ago, Moria15 said:

serious hard-core PvP'ers.. against which most of the players in the PvP server here wouldn't stand a chance against

that's why I simply laugh at them when they shout at me because I defend carebear nation ... so naive, so coarse they are.

90% of the PVPers here in EVE would run in the usual pack of blaster fitted catalysts or arty alpha treshers (instead ... low sec golem solo PVP player here)

Edited April 6, 2018 by victor

Sunleader · April 6, 2018

7 hours ago, Lars Kjaer said:

Simple question:

Why is players leaving? - My answer: Due to expectations not being met.

What expectations do players have of a game that is set in the age of sail?

Here's my guesses:

- Piracy, raiding, patroling. Is this possible in the current iteration of the game? - No because all trade, crafting etc converge on a few select spots (good thing - generates points of access that can be blocked - just like in the age of sails) and these points of convergence is protected by safezones which effectively rules out solohunting, solopatroling and makes the entire game a singularly clanbased RvR game that is flawed since RvR doesn't have any discernible meaning to it. In short - expectations are not fulfilled.

- trading, should be with risk - atm you can make millions a day without losing a ship.. I made 20 million on a full day of trading a few days ago - sure we loose an indiaman from time to time, but the profits from trading more than makes up for it. Got no indiaman? - cap an LGV in the safezone, ez piecy.. Why does gold have no value? - because it's too easy to get and has no risk/reward system.

- Balance - what player other than the most masochistic would take an inferior ship to a PvP battle with an enemy he knows to be experienced, in full knowledge that the opponent has a better ship, better knowledge slots, better upgrades and more experience? - I'd argue he can live with the fact that the opponent is more experienced.. It will still feel like a fair contest. I'd argue that he can live with the fact that the opponent might have unlocked some knowledge slots that he hasn't.. I'd argue that NO player will take an inferior ship, with inferior upgrades to a fight he inherently feel is unfair.

Players talk about "ganks" when in reality they speak about imbalances. It's NOT a hello kittying gank when 7 battles 25 and the 7 win on better coordination, better tactics and better ships. It's an imbalance to the gamemechanics.

Players talk about "ganking" traders like it's a bad thing. First off - I'm the richest player on the server, leader of the richest clan on the server and I have traders out in all nations making gold. I have never complained about losing a ship - I might complain about the moronic AI, but that's mostly in the stupid combat missions - losing a ship is part of the game. Losing gold should be part of the game - why? - because otherwise neither has any value and the game becomes meaningless.. Why trade if the gold doesn't matter? why make a ship if you never loose it? and in the end: why play a game that has no sense of meaning? - Gank the hello kittying traders, make clans drop ports due to attrition warfare OR make them actually patrol and protect their traders.

Make solohunting a thing again.

Make the players expectations to a game set in the world of sails be fulfilled. What do we have atm? - nothing resembling a game.

1.

Thats Bullcrab. As inside the Safezones there is Barely any Good Trade Lanes.

In General Tradelanes in this Game consist of Shipping Goods from Producing Ports to the Capitols.

The Capitol is in a Safezone. But the Producing Ports are not.

And anything beyond small Profit Trade Goods are outside the Range of your Capitols Safezone.

But since Trading outside the Safezone is Suicide. People simply dont use these much better Tradelanes.

2.

I expect Raiding, Trading etc. Thing is. In this Game Trading outside a Safezone is near Impossible. Because you need ways to Avoid Raiders. in this Game however. As the Raider can Just Camp 200 miles of Ocean you cant really sneak past. You are always Forced into a Fight. Which is simply not a thing you can Win as a Trader.

Hence no Trading happens outside Safezones.

3.

You can make Millions by Repeating the same Mini Trade over and over inside the Safezone. Thats True. But Sorry. Farming Missions or just Open World is Faster Money. Because inside the Safezone the Profit Range is extremely Small.

4.

Gold has no Value because Gold cant actually Buy you anything.

You can have 50 Million Gold. But what Value has that Gold when the PvE has been Killed entirely already ?

Ships and Upgrades are by now pretty much a Clan Business Only. On the Market you simply do not get anything for Gold. There is nothing you can buy for Gold.

As Clans etc got their own Crafters and need Materials not Gold.

If you want Gold to have a Value you need stuff you can Buy for Gold.

But Playing this Game as an PvE Oriented Player Producing Goods is next to Impossible unless your in a Clan. And IF your in a Clan you will move these Goods into the Clan not into the Market.

Hence Gold has no Value because even if you got 50000 Million Gold. There is nothing you can Buy for it.

But this will actually become even worse now. Because now Producing anything without a Clan will be even Harder.

So Clans will Sell even less Stuff on the Market. And the few remaining Players which produce for the market will be crippled even more as they get even less materials etc.

In short. This Change will make Gold even more useless. Because there will be even less to Buy for it.

5.

True. The Inbalance is a Problem. But this is not Fixed by this Change. Its not affected at all.

Its not really relevant. to this Topic.

6.

I Speak of a Gank when a Coordinated Squad Hunts for Solo Players. Nothing else.

7.

Sorry but you can Talk as Big as you want. And its still Bullcrab.

Sure its Part of the Game to lose a Ship. But what you completely Fail to Realize. Is that being Rich is Completely useless.

You can get something for Gold because your part of a Clan. You get Ships from your Clans Crafters. Thats why to you it does not hurt to Lose a Ship.

But the Common Player. Has to Buy Ships on the Market. So he only gets useless low Tier Crab. Losing any Ship Hurts Tremendously. Because he cant really Buy new Ships properly.

Which is because the PvE Side of the Game is DEAD. And with the PvE Side being DEAD. The only Crafters and thus the only available Replacements are almost all in Clan Hands.

This Game right now. Is trying something incredible Stupid.

Its trying to make an Open PvP Arena which is 100% Focused on PvP but requires Crafting and Grinding.

Thing is. The PvE Players which would usually handle the Crafting and the Grind. Cant really Play this Game. Because its 100% PvP Focused and thus absolutely not Fun for them to Play.

And to the PvP players this Grinding and Crafting Stuff is more like an Annoying Sidejob which they dont really care about.

So the PvPers which actually want to Fight each other. Run Away because they get annoyed that from the Rewards they get from Fighting they cant really Buy new Ships etc. Thus ending up Forced to Grind.

And the PvEers all leave the Game because they cant really play the Game properly anyways. As they just get Hunted everywhere.

I said it in my other Post already.

This Change will result in a Major Loss of Players for the Game. A Loss that will likely not be Recovered for Years.

Slim McSauce · April 6, 2018

Holy shite it's barely even a change. Instead of getting 1st rates you get a even match of ships. You still have the forts and player reinforcements you chicken littles.

Farrago · April 6, 2018

I’m not sure if this change has even been implemented yet but if so, can we please see some screenshots and videos showing instances where AI reinforcements were called for and they were not enough to save the player.

There are numerous reasons why the game is working for so few players but I’m not sure insufficient AI reinforcements in the safe zone is one of them.

Archaos · April 6, 2018

1 hour ago, Slim McSauce said:

Holy shite it's barely even a change. Instead of getting 1st rates you get a even match of ships. You still have the forts and player reinforcements you chicken littles.

It has the possibility of being a much bigger change than it initially appears, as I said in my first post in this thread a lot will depend on how buffed the AI's are and how they improve the AI actions. If the AI are so buffed that a 5th rate is equivalent to the current 1st rates that spawn as reinforcements then it means there is no change, but then why even bother making the change? If the buffed AI are only slightly stronger than normal AI but still as stupid in their actions then they will be easily outwitted by the hunters and thus be practically useless against any hunter with a bit of experience.

The biggest effect will be that now hunters will start tagging players in the green zones to test what they can get away with and if they find that dealing with the AI is easy then there is no point in even having a green zone and we may as well go back to the seal clubbing that used to go on outside the capitals and the stand offs that occurred with a bunch of hunters sitting outside the capital taunting people to come out and fight.

This goes back to what the Devs said when they first introduced the OP reinforcements, I have been unable to locate the actual comments they made but it was something along the lines that the reinforcements were like Concord in Eve HiSec where if you carried out an aggressive act you knew you were going to lose your ship as the response was so overpowered. Now they appear to have back tracked on this and given into the seal clubbers to give them the possibility to overcome the reinforcements.

True it has not been implemented yet and we shall have to wait and see how it plays out, but personally I think it will mean an end to the safe zones and a return to the constant camping of Capitals the said they were originally trying to avoid. I just wish they would be honest with us and at least tell us what they are trying to achieve with these random changes rather than just throwing it out there as if it is some form of solution to a undefined problem.

Cabral · April 6, 2018

2 hours ago, Sunleader said:

in this Game however. As the Raider can Just Camp 200 miles of Ocean you cant really sneak past. You are always Forced into a Fight.

You are joking, right? In 200 square miles of ocean you can't sneak past a raider?

You want an advice? Change to PVE server, it's better for you.

Sunleader · April 7, 2018

1 hour ago, Cabral said:

You are joking, right? In 200 square miles of ocean you can't sneak past a raider?

You want an advice? Change to PVE server, it's better for you.

Mate. 200 Miles. Not 200 Square Miles.

In the Game you easily Spot any Ship within like 50 Miles

In Reality. Even the HMS Victory with its over 60m High Mast would barely be able to See Ships at about 25 Miles

And that was assuming 100% Clear and Calm Weather and a very Good Spotter which happens to actually Notice the Ship sticking out behind the Horizon and the Waves.

Pair that with the Surreal Speed at which we move.

And you notice. That a Raider is easily able to completely Lock Off entire Trade Routes without any Chance to go around him or make a Run for it.

Now pair that with the now entirely Removed Protection. And you know for sure. That Traders are in essence Removed from the Game with this Update.

Well not that I care anymore.

Back when they Removed Safezones we had 1000 Players Average and I told you guys this removal Safezones will result in the Game losing most of its Population.

A Year Later you got less than 500 Players Average left.

You guys did not listen back then.

You wont listen now.

I already know that.

All thats left to do. Is to wait for the Game to Die.

The Joke is.

In a few Months. When the Game is down to like 300 People and you are unable to find any Targets despite hunting for Hours.

You will not say. Ok maybe that Change was Crab. Maybe we should try to give the New Players and PvE Players some Room to Play and not Chase them out of the Game because without them the Game dies.

You will go ahead and say that the small Remaining Protection should be Removed as well. So you can Massacre and Drive off the last remaining Players as well.

I have long given up on this Game anyways.

The Devils Circle Never Ends.

Its always the same Circle for these Games.