Fun PVP for everyone!

[King of Crowns]

this if for sure a step in the right direction. its a move to try to get people out looking for pvp. I'm sure It will need lots of tweeking. But lets get this mechanic into the game so that we can start looking to improve on it. took a long time to get port battles to a good place. so perhaps this will take some time to get right.  I would also like to suggest escort missions. there also needs to be some announcing going on or something to draw players into the area. but I'm sure you guys can work all that out. great idea. lets get it moving forward. 

[King of Crowns]

6 hours ago, Liq said:

Why not just bring back the pvp event area and tune the rewards accordingly?

Move it to another place everd day, that way its the same time and place for everyone, higher chance for pvp

pvp event area was a bit arcade. they could implement better ways to generate pvp other than just the circle. 

[admin]

1 hour ago, Chug said:

Would it not work better, if you were given the ship for the pvp "Naval Patrols" on taking the mission itself and not as one of the rewards for doing it. Then if you have not done the objective within "X" hours, the next time you enter a port the ship is removed. Ship perma upgrades/knowledge could be pre-set/fixed for the given ship.

 

no because of multiple technical reasons. Or short version - no.

Its easy to procure a free ship and if a player cannot procure a free NPC cerberus for example or buy it from the store - i am not sure he can be helped.

[King of Crowns]

 

there needs to be a target to these patrols. aggressor goals and defender goals. and people need to know when these patrol missions are taken. somehow. 

[vazco]

5 minutes ago, Hethwill said:

Even if the gains are marginal, I rather make sure I win and bring the numbers for a 0.1x rewards, rather than the toss the 1.0x coin for a "not-so-sure-if-we-win" situation.

In a general sense that is. Sense of security - sure win - will always beat the challenge for supreme reward.

Hence we stand where we stand today  

Incentives do work on people. Sure, some will want to win regardless of rewards - and they will keep ganking. Once they realize they can't earn much this way though, they will change their approach. It won't be for everyone and it won't be instant, but it will influence the gameplay.

Currently the system already works this way, however people don't realize this, as it's linear and it's not being communicated. Once rewards are decreasing logarythmically with BR advantage, and once it's clearly communicated eg. under TAB list, it will start influencing people.

If there was eg. 4 minutes to leave a battle to increase their rewards, I bet people would start discussing about doing this.

[vazco]

( again, this introduces issue of Dron, Moscalb, Liquicity and similar players - to have a fair fight, you have to have a BR advantage over them if you're a new guy  )

[Kloothommel]

25 minutes ago, Jon Snow lets go said:

If you would do some OW PvP you would know that it is an issue. The only way to die when you have 3x BR is if you get isolated and the enemy can kill you in one rotation or if you dont have any repairs. These are absolute beginner mistakes and happen to people who have 3k hours in this game. It happens because they never learned to fight.

Why are they not learning? 

1. PvE makes you bad. You get bad habits, you can penetrate PvE ships at angles where you cannot penetrate normal ships from real players.

2. They only do this "coastguard" thing. Playing against coordinated PvP players with a random group where you cant rely on anyone (yesterday we had a fight where the enemy fireship won us the fight).

 

So this changes maybe puts them up against other normal players, where they get into small even fights. They will learn fast and kill anyone when they have 2x BR.

Increase you mean hopefully? Yes I hope so too, Im still a fan of 1 rep each and thats it.

I stopped pvp because of repair and kiting meta. And yes, I mean increase time/reduce amount of repairs possible.

Kite enemies, kill off the ones that catch up, repair, repeat. It's pure mechanics, not really skill imho.

[RaimundoJoe]

6 hours ago, admin said:

La Mona Naval Patrol

• Captain: Your task is to inflict as much damage as possible on the enemy players shipping in the designated areas of the Caribbean. Running is discouraged, preservation of your vessel is not important! Assigned ships Cerberus, Renomme, Surprise.
• Goal: Inflict 5000 damage on enemy shipping in the area.
• Rewards: Random light frigate note, 30 rig repairs, 30 hull repairs, 250 rum, 5 pvp marks, combat ready upgrade, some money for fitting and guns.

 

I hate to be the one that points out that, unless u try to match the new player to fight eachother somehow, this sounds a lot like "we will send a lot of sheeps to La Mona under the pretext of pvp fun for everyone, can the wolves welcome them in an appropriate manner!".

With the game meta a Cerberus, Renomme or Surprise will get demasted within 2 min of a battle by a Trinc or an Endy, leaving one player to spectate the rest of the battle while the other gets all the fun. This will make, once again, a few people very happy and it will create griefing for the rest.

I do hope i am wrong!

[z4ys]

46 minutes ago, vazco said:

Incentives do work on people. Sure, some will want to win regardless of rewards - and they will keep ganking. Once they realize they can't earn much this way though, they will change their approach. It won't be for everyone and it won't be instant, but it will influence the gameplay.

Currently the system already works this way, however people don't realize this, as it's linear and it's not being communicated. Once rewards are decreasing logarythmically with BR advantage, and once it's clearly communicated eg. under TAB list, it will start influencing people.

If there was eg. 4 minutes to leave a battle to increase their rewards, I bet people would start discussing about doing this.

Like liq said the reward of ganking 10pvp marks is higher than the mission reward. So what we will see? ;-)

[TheLoneWolf]

6 hours ago, admin said:

New missions make farming useless and irrelevant. If you can get same or better rewards for doing a fun activity, you will do a boring activity less. 

Makes perfect sense and could not agree more

[z4ys]

"Fun pvp for everyone" will be a lie if it's not getting reworked. 

Pvp and losing can be fun when it doesn't feel like getting farmed.

But currently it's still looks like that farming/ganking will be the thing because of its the meta way. Sinking and ganking pvp mission player with big ships in a ganking Grp is much more rewarding because more reward in pvp marks less possible downtime for while chances to sink are low. Lot of noobs/new players that hope to get some easy marks. Perfect environment for vets to slaughter.

Changes that have to be applied so it is Not only for one side fun are in my opinion.

- no reward above certain br ratio

- no reward when killing players with active pvp mission in mission area while using a ship that is not allowed in the mission

- let mission close instant when br ratio is 1

- Grp pvp missions in different area of the map. Grp size up to 3 players. 

Edited February 26, 2018 by z4ys

[James Cornelius]

3 hours ago, Christendom said:

We do not have the population, spread in 11 stupid nations, to create a search and destroy type of mission in areas that are not basically KPR or La Tort area. 

I like the premise that Admin has suggested, but @Christendom is right about this at the very least.

 

Look, I get fanboyism for the Prussians (for example) as much as the next military  history buff, but the inclusion of countries like them, Poland, and Russia really belies claims to make this "historically accurate". Most of these countries didn't get any further out to sea than the depth that they could wade to. And leave sight of their own coast? Ha!

 

Limiting people to the seafaring nations of the Napoleonic era was always better as it centralized your playerbase in areas that made PVP hot zones more likely anyway, even without other incentives.

That said, the addition of such incentives are, I think, probably vital into making this a sustainable game to both bring new people in, and continue to provide content for veterans.

[Slim McSauce]

9 hours ago, admin said:

Hello Captains

We already announced the changes that will improve the hostility missions and victory mark distribution in game, giving everyone equal footing. Individual port ownership will grant you victory marks and even owning one port will make your conquest efforts count. You will no longer be limited by your nation capabilities and your small clan can influence the conquest, and get rewarded even if you are the only clan in your nation.

Now it is time to improve pvp itself.

In one patch a new type of mission will be added to the game. This mission will completely change the mechanics and motivation behind progression and will route the player to one of the most fun and varied activity in the game.

PvP missions will reward player based on the damage he was able to inflict on enemy shipping. PvP missions will reward the player with ships, repairs and small amount of pvp marks. The goal is to remove gear fear from pvp and motivate fighting, not ship preservance. 

Example of the mission for the light frigates

La Mona Naval Patrol

• Captain: Your task is to inflict as much damage as possible on the enemy players shipping in the designated areas of the Caribbean. Running is discouraged, preservation of your vessel is not important! Assigned ships Cerberus, Renomme, Surprise.
• Goal: Inflict 5000 damage on enemy shipping in the area.
• Rewards: Random light frigate note, 30 rig repairs, 30 hull repairs, 250 rum, 5 pvp marks, combat ready upgrade, some money for fitting and guns.

The player will have to arrive to the designated area, damage enemy ships and probably sink as a result, but he will learn something. Of course due to 2.5x pvp xp bonuses he will be leveling up faster and such navy patrols will help him recover losses.

This feature will be further underlined by the fact that tutorial master exam will award the player with the M&C rank making him immediately useful + such missions will route him to the most fun activity in game. 

 

Discuss. 

So this is just one example, how will these missions be activated? How many of them a day and where else will they be placed? I'd like to see them spawn by contested ports where the borders of two nations meet. Straight up Naval PVP is something we don't get very often, I could already go to any freeport and find someone to gank me 

A step above this I'd like to see a feature where clans can buy these missions, put them at a port of their choosing to encourage players to go and attack that area if it's being prepped for a PB or just to get people engaged.
 

Also this is a pretty good idea and long due for the game. Very much look forward to being able to fleet up with a few people in nation and go out and accomplish an objective instead of sailing around aimlessly. Accessibility to PVP is just as important as the PVP itself so that's good.
 

One concern is the rewards. Something needs to be done about the mark economy. It's a mess. Combat marks are too filler and vague. While we reward PVE we still don't see enough rewards for crafting (which is also way too tedious). A quick fix would be crafting once gives you 3 ships. That makes more sense with the RNG bonuses, (you get 3 chances instead of 1). Like an offshoot to multiple durabilities, multiple ships crafted at once will let people try many fits in multiple battles without breaking the bank or crafting themselves to death.

Edited February 26, 2018 by Slim Jimmerson

[vazco]

2 hours ago, z4ys said:

Like liq said the reward of ganking 10pvp marks is higher than the mission reward. So what we will see? ;-)

I guess I have to reply what I already wrote If in battle you gank someone and you will have a big message saying that your PvP reward will be lower by 50% because your group has too high BR, you will think about maybe leaving if you're far from battle and your clan mates are closer. You will think about maybe having a fight with 2x BR, not 5x, to get more marks.

I'm not commenting missions, but John Snow's idea.

As for missions, it's still good if people can take missions and this way get PvP marks for damage, without a need to sink someone. It's move into the right direction, however it could be improved - eg. by giving two guys a mission, and make them meet - or increase their chance of meeting.

[admin]

3 hours ago, Sir R. Calder of Southwick said:

I like the premise that Admin has suggested, but @Christendom is right about this at the very least.

 

Look, I get fanboyism for the Prussians (for example) as much as the next military  history buff, but the inclusion of countries like them, Poland, and Russia really belies claims to make this "historically accurate". Most of these countries didn't get any further out to sea than the depth that they could wade to. And leave sight of their own coast? Ha!

 

Limiting people to the seafaring nations of the Napoleonic era was always better as it centralized your playerbase in areas that made PVP hot zones more likely anyway, even without other incentives.

That said, the addition of such incentives are, I think, probably vital into making this a sustainable game to both bring new people in, and continue to provide content for veterans.

Focus on the pvp missions please not on your colonial dislikes. This topic does not discuss alternative historical options
But i would note that if you are such history buff perhaps you should not shoot yourself in the foot by denying prussian existence in he caribbean, because as a historian you are more than aware that future parts of Germany had 3 colonies in the Caribbean.

Russia and Poland Lithuania could have sent fleets to caribbean both being very expansionist in 17th 18th and early 19th century. This is a game. Players decide what will happen. Colonial fleets (players) arrived to the Caribean and are making history - they dont have capitals, protected zones, they capture what other nations allow them to capture just like it was in history. 

But we prefer players to focus on the topic and discuss the given subject without derailing the discussion into unrelated areas. 

This topic is about pvp missions.

[Barbancourt]

10 hours ago, admin said:

La Mona Naval Patrol

• Captain: Your task is to inflict as much damage as possible on the enemy players shipping in the designated areas of the Caribbean. Running is discouraged, preservation of your vessel is not important! Assigned ships Cerberus, Renomme, Surprise.

Please place at a bit less travelled area.  It's already dodgy enough getting in/out of places like La Mona or Shroud Cay.  I don't want my shipyard blockaded. 

[victor]

7 hours ago, Bearwall said:

I would disagree.. The problem is that ressources can be farmed inside the safezones effectively ruling out any way to do economic warfare against an opponent.

If there are easy factions that you can choose from (GB, US and Spain), they shall be easy. Big safe zones makes them easy.

Edited February 26, 2018 by victor

[admin]

3 hours ago, z4ys said:

Like liq said the reward of ganking 10pvp marks is higher than the mission reward. So what we will see? ;-)

Ganking who? Surprise is how many marks? It will be divided between them.  
Those who gank now do that not for rewards. They do it for the thrill. And ganking is much harder now in NA if you know what you are doing 

[admin]

4 hours ago, Cornelis Tromp said:

Kite enemies, kill off the ones that catch up, repair, repeat. It's pure mechanics, not really skill imho.

You make it sound soo easy. Maybe you can provide a video where you easily sink enemies by doing so?  Or maybe just fire up the game and shoot a couple of fresh videos like this? Like easily killing catching up players in 1v3 1v5?
I am not trying to check on you, we are just planning to make a special big guide/section teaching players how you can fight outnumbered. I am particularly interested in quick kills of those who catch up. Will you be so kind?

[z4ys]

6 minutes ago, admin said:

Ganking who? Surprise is how many marks? It will be divided between them.  
Those who gank now do that not for rewards. They do it for the thrill. And there is no gank in NA now.

just keep in mind to make pvp fun for everyone then no side should feel like getting farmed. reward isnt everything

Edited February 26, 2018 by z4ys

[admin]

Just now, z4ys said:

just keep in mind to make pvp fun for everyone then no side should feel like getting farmed than pvp is always fun.

People want to pvp and need a funnel and a light friendly push. Your framing/naming is incorrect. When you are practicing in CS this is not getting farmed. Its gaining experience. Sinking and learning and not being afraid to lose when learning is what it is.

[z4ys]

2 minutes ago, admin said:

People want to pvp and need a funnel and a light friendly push. Your framing/naming is incorrect. When you are practicing in CS this is not getting farmed. Its gaining experience. Sinking and learning and not being afraid to lose when learning is what it is.

I will hope the best I still believe. And hope i will be wrong.

[Slim McSauce]

Just now, admin said:

People want to pvp and need a funnel and a light friendly push. Your framing/naming is incorrect. When you are practicing in CS this is not getting farmed. Its gaining experience. Sinking and learning and not being afraid to lose when learning is what it is.

You're right but make it expansive. Please don't just put a single PVP mission on a random part of the map and keep it there for a whole day. Many missions firing off constantly with some urgency to hook the ADHD crowd please 

[Kloothommel]

31 minutes ago, admin said:

You make it sound soo easy. Maybe you can provide a video where you easily sink enemies by doing so?  Or maybe just fire up the game and shoot a couple of fresh videos like this? Like easily killing catching up players in 1v3 1v5?
I am not trying to check on you, we are just planning to make a special big guide/section teaching players how you can fight outnumbered. I am particularly interested in quick kills of those who catch up. Will you be so kind?

I'd first need to grind up ships to 5 slots to be capable of doing that. My 5 slots unlocked ships are mostly pb ships. Not the new meta ships. So I'd have to do a LOT of pve, since pvp with 1 slot ship vs 5 slots is mostly suicide. Plus grinding more PVE for epic chests would cost me a lot of extra PVE time + pve time of other players.

So do you have a couple of months untill I get to that point? Becasue the mechanics that let me succes fully do the kite/repair/kite trick require me to do a lot of grinding. Including ships that are 5/5.

Edited February 26, 2018 by Cornelis Tromp

[Guest]

1 hour ago, admin said:

You make it sound soo easy. Maybe you can provide a video where you easily sink enemies by doing so?  Or maybe just fire up the game and shoot a couple of fresh videos like this? Like easily killing catching up players in 1v3 1v5?
I am not trying to check on you, we are just planning to make a special big guide/section teaching players how you can fight outnumbered. I am particularly interested in quick kills of those who catch up. Will you be so kind?

Write @darkjoker - he should have some vids..

Edited February 26, 2018 by Guest
Because I can