Jump to content
Game-Labs Forum
admin

Unequal battles

Recommended Posts

2 hours ago, Hethwill said:

They need a purpose. A mission. To know their fight changed something.

Not only feeding the opponents with bragging rights.

- an analogy -

We fly a full wing of fighter bombers against a town full of anti aircraft and enemy fighters. We know we will not ALL survive. Maybe we won't survive at all ALL of us.

We know we can change the course of a campaign, an attack, a defense, a war.

That's why we go.

 

@admin asked when we would start fighting outnumbered

I remember the good old times with flags: Sometimes we found the enemy PB Group with the flag carrier inside. We sacrificed the hole fleet and did a hard focus onto that carrier to stay him in battle or even sink him. That Action had an impact on RvR because the Port was saved by our action.

Those things are a big motivation to go into a fight

 

 

 

Edited by Sven Silberbart
  • Like 5

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, admin said:

My heart bleeds when i see 2 bellonas running away from 1 wasa and 3 trincomalee
They run without shooting
They lose sails in process
And once they slow down they start fighting
But its too late!!! They lost all combat capability because they did nothing for 20 mins of running

If they did not run they have a huge chance to win. But they dig their grave by running and doing nothing. 

How do we change it?
 

Lower crafting costs for ships, and freeze the prices for ships.  Lower the prices for cannons, and crafting costs.

Crafters will craft more, players will fight more.

Maybe some escort missions for traders, with awards for escort if a trader reaches the port? The closer the port to enemy capital, the higher the award.

In battle awards, which can be obtained during battle. Those awards could be also considered as some kind of currency..Either players can convert those into PVP marks, or buy paints, or signaling flags and put them on their ships.

For example : Full broadside given="Devastating strike"...... 40 crew killed raking="Stern blue ribbon"... 100 crew killed raking = "Stern gold ribbon"...1 mast shot off= "Gunnery ribbon"...2 masts shot off= "Gunnery gold ribbon"......A lone player wins against 2 opponents = " Aggainst all odds ribbon"(seen many times in many games),

2 players in team vs more than 2 opponents= " Braveheart" (for example), maybe "Loyalty ribbon" for staying in battle till bitter end..and so on and so on...

These are only examples for rewarding players, and motivating them to stay in battle instead of running away. I hope i didn`t write too much.

Maybe its worth reading.

Thanks.

 

Edited by Fenris
  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 hours ago, Liq said:

 

Get ganked 10v1  by a revengefleet camping the exact battle positon in OW = bullshit (especially when they left a battle where they already had the upper hand just to be 100% positive to get a zerg kill)

 

I've noticed something recently in the combat news. The game seems to know your location in the world inside the battle instance. For example, the other day we were in a battle and sank 2 ships in the same instance. The first was reported as being near 1 town, and the second near another town.

Given this (and that my interpretation of it was correct), why not have the players rejoin OW in the spot they were in the battle instance ended, instead of where it began? This would reduce the OW revenge fleet gank (there are still valid reasons to have it, but that is another conversation).

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
12 minutes ago, BPHick said:

I've noticed something recently in the combat news. The game seems to know your location in the world inside the battle instance. For example, the other day we were in a battle and sank 2 ships in the same instance. The first was reported as being near 1 town, and the second near another town.

Given this (and that my interpretation of it was correct), why not have the players rejoin OW in the spot they were in the battle instance ended, instead of where it began? This would reduce the OW revenge fleet gank (there are still valid reasons to have it, but that is another conversation).

That would be worse since you can use F11 in battle to get an exact location

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
18 hours ago, Powderhorn said:

 Also, remove F11 Coordinates so people can't send GPS locations to your battle instance.

Some means of determining lat/lon in game is needed. And it needs to be a button press, not a minigame where we learn to use a sextant.

Make it update reasonably accurately at noon each in game day (taking of the noon sighting, which fixed both lat and lon (nearest 10km?), then every in game hour the lat/long could be updated by dead reckoning (maybe only to the nearest 100km affected by sky cover/storms). This would result in a location update roughly every 50 seconds or so, but also give 3 good readings per real-life hour, weather permitting.

 

11 hours ago, TheLoneWolf said:

That would be worse since you can use F11 in battle to get an exact location

F11 won't be in forever, it is a testing tool. But it isn't unreasonable that you should know your lat/lon in game within a reasonable degree of accuracy.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, z4ys said:

When gear is useless why more and more mods get added? If gear is useless its a fake feature and shouldnt be ingame becuase it spoils people to not to pvp. The so called gear hunter should hunt for gear that gives visual improvements so people dont get spoiled that gear is worth the time.

Can anyone challenge his logic here?

I can't.

  • Like 5

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
55 minutes ago, Sven Silberbart said:

 

@admin asked when we would start fighting outnumbered

I remember the good old times with flags: Sometimes we found the enemy PB Group with the flag carrier inside. We sacrificed the hole fleet and did a hard focus onto that carrier to stay him in battle or even sink him. That Action had an impact on RvR because the Port was saved by our action.

Those things are a big motivation to go into a fight

 

 

 

I remember those times... 

but to me it always seemed more like kamikaze with focus of actually denying a fight (enemy PB fleet getting to the PB) by fighting a suicide mission... not really the most fun in my eyes..

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
15 hours ago, admin said:

There is a lot of average players - we want them to start fighting more and stop running - they all have no gear!!!

 

The issue is that they all see battle results where 2 players sink 10 and don't even start to fight if they have the advantage. I have issues getting fights and I'm not the best player in the game. The fact that 3 enemies with low skill fear to attack me (and they should) is taking content away from me and them.

 

I think weaker players should have an incentive to sink better players. If I'm better, a weaker player should get a better prize for sinking me. In the same time increasing my position as a player gives me something to compete for. A win-win in terms of promoting fights it seems.

Elite players rarely fight each other. Give them also an incentive to fight each other, rather than search for an uneven battle which increases their rewards.

 

11 hours ago, Liq said:

I remember those times... 

but to me it always seemed more like kamikaze with focus of actually denying a fight (enemy PB fleet getting to the PB) by fighting a suicide mission... not really the most fun in my eyes..

True. Having different hostilty missions on the other hand could be interesting - eg. Flagship (VIP defence), escort (sink/save traders), blockade (get a trader to enemy port).

If we had such missions instead of hostility, and defenders could eg. join through a lobby, it could be an interesting modification to bot fighting - which quite plainly I'm sick with.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
20 minutes ago, maturin said:

Can anyone challenge his logic here?

I can't.

Admin wrote that gear doesnt matter. So I asked why we have gear ingame. If it doesnt matter then we dont need it. But other said people think gear is important. and thats why they dont pvp (They cant get rar mods and if then its to expensive to lose) But in the otherhand we have people that only play because they want to grind. In order to not break the game for them remove mods and add  collector items like visual improvements (paints etc).

So by removing mods (that have no effect on combat because only 2%) we remove pressure on players and get easy access to pvp because ships would be the only thing that has to be replaced

By adding visual improvements instead of mods we can still entertain the pve grinder

In my opinion win win

  • Like 5

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Sven Silberbart said:

 

@admin asked when we would start fighting outnumbered

I remember the good old times with flags: Sometimes we found the enemy PB Group with the flag carrier inside. We sacrificed the hole fleet and did a hard focus onto that carrier to stay him in battle or even sink him. That Action had an impact on RvR because the Port was saved by our action.

Those things are a big motivation to go into a fight

 

 

 

Your example is good, and very specific regarding a navy captain choice. It also pertains a certain mechanic rather than the captain choice in a age of sail imaginary.

As an example, I did fight immense times outnumbered, on my own choice, especially in ship size and gun/broadwise weight because the possibility of prizing cargo was real. Schooner versus Indiamans and transport LGVs. Even against heavy frigates. The capture of such a prize was good and would have an impact.

I did fight outnumbered when i did not have a choice, being slower, bad position, ambushed. Worst I remember is 14:1. More usually is 3:1 and 5:1. 

Hard for me to go for a fight if the reward is pvp marks. It is not content. It is not resources being denied or conquered in the high seas.

Some players do not care about impact in the world, others do. What makes a player fight - example being, the fight just for the fight - is not what makes another fight - he wants to deny a flag, to deny a trade route - yet another just wants to fight to get marks - the way to modules, for more pvp, for more marks.

I do not have a single motivation for people to decide to fight unless they want to.

Taking away the "life in the age of sail" in exchange for marks surely isn't it.

 

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 hours ago, Liq said:

Get ganked 10v1 regularly in OW = deal with it, shit happens

Get ganked 10v1  by a revengefleet camping the exact battle positon in OW = bullshit (especially when they left a battle where they already had the upper hand just to be 100% positive to get a zerg kill)

Scale safezone on rank - midshipman 125% of current safe zone, rear admiral 50%

Transform "random trims" to crafting bonusses from indivdual regions, give players  a reason to leafe safezone

The problem is the scale by rank thing can be abused.  I keep lower level chars on other games before but more to walk new guys through the lower levels.  When they got to high to help I would just delete that char and make a new one.  I also have used the lower level to kill higher level chars.  When my newest account was just rank 2 I killed a Rear Admiral in a Privateer.  He though he was getting an easy fight but I had the ship totally modded out and just ripped him to pieces.   Made a dang rank off that fight too.  I still like playing that char cause he's mid level (well 650 crew) and he's gain all his XP through PvP only. 

4 hours ago, admin said:

that's a good point. PvP rewards should probably be more accessible and you should be able to refit your ship and go back to action. 

I think the main question I did not emphasize is this

  1. How do you encourage attacking even if you are outnumbered (as tools allow you to win if you are skilled)
  2. How do you encourage not running, because in most of the cases if you dont run you will quickly realize that enemy average skill level is average too and often times they make a lot of mistakes and you can rake in kills and have fun by fighting and and taking somebody with you.

So lets rephrase again
How do you encourage not running or accepting the combat even if you will lose it. 
And if you don't run, what tools will allow you to fight well to the end. (subject of this topic)
 

We still need better ways to get certain rewards in game and the price for other things need to be changed.  We been saying over and over that PvP marks should be mainly cosmetics item and things you can get through PvE grinding.

The running thing is more a player issue not a game mechanics.  A lot of folks just don't want to take risk.  High Risk should be high reward, but most folks want the easy low risk rewards instead.  So I really don't see a problem with the game mechanics on that grounds other than maybe some tweeks to rewards and such.  IT's like real life your not going to rush into a fight your probly going to loose.  You wait until you have the advantage and take it.

4 hours ago, victor said:

- Give (of course less) PVP marks also to the looser in proportion to the damage done to the winner(s).

- Make PVP refits and modules cheap (accessible with a few PVP marks)

- Allow the buying of paints and nice cosmetic things only with PVP marks.

I will still be steamrolled by liquicity each time I meet him, but hey ... I can have some ot those shinies even if I loose.

See below Loosers get PvP Marks,  any one gets them for Assist and Kills.  You have to get assit and kills to get them and you can get them on the looser side if you kill or assist killing any one.

4 hours ago, TheLoneWolf said:

First and foremost, you make ships and refits much cheaper to obtain.  Here is an idea refit costs:

Carta $3,000,000

Copper plating 2-3 million

Navy hull or Navy structure - 10 pvp each

Add price of ship - 1-9 million

So you are looking at 5-15 million per ship.  Grinding a good size fleet will net you $400k and takes 30 min or more.  Doing math for the lower ships (4th rate with half decent mods) you need to do 10-12 grinding missions solo or invest 5 hours or so.  End result, the replacement effort is immense.  This has to change.

Secondly, you have to convince players they can win the ganking which imo is very difficult or impossible if 3 or more v1

While I get they want us to fight over these ports, but they really need to make Cart and Copper not so rare.  I think we need at least one more port like Cart and the copper prob needs 2-3 more ports as it wasn't so rare a thing for ships at this time to have copper plating on them .  That and limit some ports where mega clans can't own them, this allow small clans to own a few nice production ports.  Make some of the shallow ports and some deep water ports limited to small clans.  If you own 10 or more ports you can't capture that port and leave it to small clans/nations.  Even can make some of them restricted to 5 or less prots owned.  This means that some other clans can still own them and be owned by a Nation, but it means Mega clans can't own all the small/shallow or even important ports in game.

4 hours ago, admin said:

we already reduced it by 20% over last 1.5 months ;)

One of my biggest issues is the counter tags folks do to avoid a fight and make it easy to escape and the stupid join circles.  IF we aren't in that little circle we have to pretty much turn around and go to the join circles loosing time and distance in the fight.  You really should bring back the big second join circles but make that one an option to join instead of being instant pulled.  So anything in the big join circles can click to join from position when some one is tagged.  If you don't click on ok than you have to use the join circles.  

4 hours ago, OneEyedSnake said:

If you lose you gain no pvp marks. That’s bullshit. 

PvP Marks are gained by assist and kills.  You can still get assist and kills and loose a fight so you still gain PvP marks.  I don't know where folks are getting only the winner gets them.  No only the folks that gets assist and kills gets them.  Just like XP is off damage in battle. You can do tons of damage and still sink and get more XP than any one in the battle. I remember on the old system one shallow water battle before they removed XP for damage and before the H Rattler came out my mercury got like 3K xp and I had almost 1 million gold (number prob exaggerated but it was high) cause even though when I died I only had 1 kill and 2 assist.  Well by end of battle cause I dished out so many kills I ended up with 4 kills and 6 assist even though I was the first ship sunk in the battle and we still won out number, but we keep the towers alive and keep the BR difference needed.   So folks saying looser and other don't get rewards are wrong. Rewards are from what you do in the battle.  You want more of them than sink more folks and do more damage. I'll give a sinking ship an extra broad side if I have the loaded decks and don't need them for another shot just to put more damage or get an Assist on that ship for the rewards.  Folks need to know things like this and they don't.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

At this point can we at least agree that having mods and books that many do not have access to is not increasing PvP at least? If the goal is to encourage people to get out and fight then we should look at things that might encourage that....a more balanced playing field, even if it is only perceived to be the case. Grinding out ai fleets or events is not encouraging people to go out and pvp....not at all. Players are at a real or imagined disadvantage without having access to this stuff. We might disagree which one of these statements to be true but the fact of the matter is we should all agree that the end result is less fighting. I simply do not see a downside to making this stuff easily obtainable. 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, admin said:

I have a request (special admiralty order/challenge) to you 

  • Capture or take a cheap 3-5 Indefatigale (npc captured is fine, but not shabby) or any other heavy 5th rate. 
  • Use only modules for mast thickness
  • Use skill books for repairs, pumps and reload
  • Basically fit the ship for mast thickness and reload (optional is water bailing or other survivability) but main goal is to buff reload and masts. 
  • Take repairs for 1 cycle (you wont probably survive more)
  • You should not use rare permanent upgrades
  • Any skill books are allowed

Now once you fit it - sail to a populated area and attack players. 

You goals
Main goal - inflict as much hull damage as possible before sinking. Hull is preferable, but you can shoot chain to not let one enemy escape.
Secondary goal - sink at least one ship if you can (stay on one side get into 50% structure it wont get away)

Let me know once you do it - how much xp you got and how much potential money you got (marks loot captures).
My opinion is that revenue will greatly exceed the cost of this exhibition + you will get more fun. + you might even earn pvp marks. (of course if you actively fight and damage enemies)
I think we should make it a global challenge with prizes ;) but with video to avoid cheating this challenge.


ps this quest will be part of the tutorial exams .

Why not add quests like these to the game? If you could take quests, maybe it would make people try out new things and get  them used to PvP.

A bounty quest is easy. You could add a more advanced ones - eg. smuggle something to enemy port, have two players accept a duel etc.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 hours ago, admin said:

that's a good point. PvP rewards should probably be more accessible and you should be able to refit your ship and go back to action. 

I think the main question I did not emphasize is this

  1. How do you encourage attacking even if you are outnumbered (as tools allow you to win if you are skilled)
  2. How do you encourage not running, because in most of the cases if you dont run you will quickly realize that enemy average skill level is average too and often times they make a lot of mistakes and you can rake in kills and have fun by fighting and and taking somebody with you.

So lets rephrase again
How do you encourage not running or accepting the combat even if you will lose it. 
And if you don't run, what tools will allow you to fight well to the end. (subject of this topic)
 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, z4ys said:

Admin wrote that gear doesnt matter. So I asked why we have gear ingame. If it doesnt matter then we dont need it. But other said people think gear is important. and thats why they dont pvp (They cant get rar mods and if then its to expensive to lose) But in the otherhand we have people that only play because they want to grind. In order to not break the game for them remove mods and add  collector items like visual improvements (paints etc).

So by removing mods (that have no effect on combat because only 2%) we remove pressure on players and get easy access to pvp because ships would be the only thing that has to be replaced

By adding visual improvements instead of mods we can still entertain the pve grinder

In my opinion win win

I still maintain that anything rare and special obtained through marks should be cosmetic only.  Let the PVP peacocks spread their wings while still making entry into PVP affordable for every style of player.

When you need to load up your ship with millions worth of mods in order to compete, unsurprisingly folks are not all that willing to lose them.  shocker

If everyone played this game as it was exactly intended, with no alts in other nations to get these bullshit mods......no one would have them and the prices would be astronomical.  Only certain nations would have carta calking, bridgetown, northern carpenters, french rig......copper plating.  The list goes on.  To equip your ships similarly with the pros an vets out there you need to either have a couple of alts, millions in gold or get very lucky with drop rates farming AI.  Which makes it a very difficult slope for new players to climb up.  Which explains why new player retention in this game is utter shit.  

In a system where pvp marks are rewarded in favor of kills, I cannot for the life of me figure out why we still have a mod system that forces or encourages players to have millions in mods on their ships to help them compete.  It's easy for folks like @Liq to say you don't need mods, but he has a couple years worth of experience with this game and is active on the forums and knows what changes and when.  Your average new player does not and is at a significant disadvantage with gear and experience.  

Ships and mods should be cheap and losing them should mean almost nothing to a veteran player and to a new player....a minor inconvenience. 

I really miss the days where the only reason I was pissed off about losing my pink vic was because.....it was a pink vic.  I didn't care about the mods or the cannons on it.  If the price for admission into PVP and RVR is cheap, everyone will do it.  If the price for admission is high, no one will.  Economics 101 

Edited by Christendom
  • Like 12

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, Fenris said:

Lower crafting costs for ships, and freeze the prices for ships.  Lower the prices for cannons, and crafting costs.

Crafters will craft more, players will fight more.

Maybe some escort missions for traders, with awards for escort if a trader reaches the port? The closer the port to enemy capital, the higher the award.

In battle awards, which can be obtained during battle. Those awards could be also considered as some kind of currency..Either players can convert those into PVP marks, or buy paints, or signaling flags and put them on their ships.

For example : Full broadside given="Devastating strike"...... 40 crew killed raking="Stern blue ribbon"... 100 crew killed raking = "Stern gold ribbon"...1 mast shot off= "Gunnery ribbon"...2 masts shot off= "Gunnery gold ribbon"......A lone player wins against 2 opponents = " Aggainst all odds ribbon"(seen many times in many games),

2 players in team vs more than 2 opponents= " Braveheart" (for example), maybe "Loyalty ribbon" for staying in battle till bitter end..and so on and so on...

These are only examples for rewarding players, and motivating them to stay in battle instead of running away. I hope i didn`t write too much.

Maybe its worth reading.

Thanks.

 

Underrated suggestion.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I run into battle fearless (and get sunk alot) but I have fun....but I've landed on a Renomee for a main because is easy to get and fast....exp keeps me afloat....if theyre sailing towards me I'm in trouble if they're sailing away (like a Bellona did today) I will probably win...

I didnt beat that guy in the Bellona but he could NOT beat me...not bragging because I know guys that can sink my Renomee with a cutter...but for me engaging in fights I may or may not win is fun and possible because I have a basic ship and a no mods....my suggestion to @admin to get people out there and stop a Bellona from running from a Renomee is this

Mods are fine...but get rid of perm mods....increase ship knowledge to 8 slots or 10 (10 is a better number)

You  never lose these mods (no more 4 mil dollar mast mods) 

Move the perm mods into skilled book mods in the theme of planking and winged out ballast. The diversity of this game is one of it's selling points. A large number of slots allows you to outfit your ship.... A new guy might want 10 speed books on to help him get away. A PVPr may want attack and agility mods... A rage boarder may want all boarding mods....some may want equal portions to cover a little of everything. 

This combined with ship build and Cannon type and ship type makes every single ship unique and therefore every battle unique 

The fun will be in the experimentation of combination of mods (without fear of losing mods) on your ship to achieve your unique goal

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Some thoughts...

1. This is a MMO. Therefore numbers (and so cooperation/teamplay) should matter. More than solo skill. A skilled well geared captain is and should be able to handle up to 3 medium geared, medium skill with bad tactics enemies (like letting them got kited and engaged 1 by 1). Above 1v3... the game becomes unreal and unappalling for random players.

2. As stated in other posts/threads... demasting as it was (and partly is still) in game (mast sniping) aside totally unreal, gives another edge to "pros". Same goes, coupled with infinite stack of repairs.

3. As stated above (in Sir Texas Sir's reply): yes. A competitive ship is very expensive. And not to talk about new build RNG. These high costs give another edge to pro/hardcore: the more you play, the older player you are, the (far) richer you are... the more competitive ship you can build (and lose). Moreover as said a lot of times: skilled players do not need ALSO huge gear advantage: they are better. Period. And skill is still (and surely remain) a big part in a balanced battle. 

Finally, the "losing" side, meaning the sunk one without killing enemy (like the end of a 1v1 fight - much appreciated but badly not favoured), aside losing a perhaps expensive ship, get NOTHING.

Consequences

I. a casual player has no reason to accept a 1v1 on a "medium" or even good ship. Those looking for it are 9/10 experienced with far better ships = he'll sunk and he'll gain nothing.

II. a casual player cant compete with "pros" even outnumbering them: on one side (already said and desired mechanics) a bunch of casuals will be sunk (and humiliated - not something good in a game); on the other side, 99% the lone pro has a so superior ship gear-wise he can simply avoid too risky (for him) battles.

Therefore casual players cant compete 1v1, cant compete in groups. In the best situation they gain nothing, usually they got sunk, sometimes they are completely humiliated too.

III. Gear DOES MATTER TOO MUCH. Cheap speed ups and easily obtainable books (ballast) can give a casual player (Gazelle, Cotton, ?? + opt.ballast) +4-6% speed bonus. A rich PVPer can easily get (NHR+Copper+Boven + AoSH) +10.5% WITHOUT taking into account 4/5 and 5/5 or Fast/VeryFast/BermudaRefit random trims. In best conditions (for the casual) he is 4.5-6+% faster... but he can be even more. Such edge could allow a vet to sail a teak/WO going at the same speed of a fir/fir (with 3 "low" speed ups). And we all know what will happen when a vet on a teak/WO ship get side to side with a casual on a fir fir.

I used only speed as example (still being very important in PVP). This could be evaluated (and we all know the bonuses). On speed in general, to underline the total madness of overstacking bonuses... from a LO/WO ship with no speed perms/books to a fir/fir 5 speed perms + VeryFast + AoSH there's a speed difference from -8.5% to 27.5% = OVER 36% speed bonus difference (and I'm not talking about Pirate or Spanish - Elite - Refits... difficult to calculate, still my Reno on paper at 14ish flies at 15.5 in combat with spanish+studding book). That bonus difference means the fastest going 40% more than the slowest on the same "hull".

Therefore, AGAIN, gear matters... and good gear is VERY EXPENSIVE. If a regular player in the end (with long farming, trading - something good for gold, but very annoying) get a very nice ship... he'll (RIGHTFULLY) consider her "not expendable"... another reason to avoid fair fights.

Granted the above I sincerely think the game philosophy, even if rightfully rewarding skill, with all these mechanics went too far promoting a game that's against the best interests of this game itself, the players' community and its growth.

My ideas about solutions?

One repair per type per battle. Reduce even more mast sniping (a bit unsure... not met any demaster post last patches).

Rework stackability of perms/books, rework quite a lot of upgrade bonuses.

Stackability can be reworked in different ways:

Putting ship based caps: no matter the wood/perms/books, HP cant exceed +X% of base; no matter wood/perms/books, speed cant exceed +X% (or an "hull speed" maximum, different ship by ship - no sense a general cap of 15.5: it's another gift to those can over gear some ships). Same goes for any stat.

And/or limiting more the perms/books that could stack. As we can use one rig refit (French, Spanish, Pirate and Boven) on a ship, the same should go (for example) for speed ones (Gazelle, NHR and Copper). Same for Navy Structure, Cartagena and eventually a new (cheaper) option.

And/or reworking bonuses a way that the most common perms/books should give a good bonus. There should be NO REAL NEED TO LOOK FOR SOMETHING EXTREMELY RARE. To use an example bound to our perms, Gazelle +2* speed, Copper +2*+decel bonus, NHR +2.5* [*examples]: this way any fast ship will have Gazelle, a lucky player (or a richer one) could use Copper or NHR. Difference among medium fitted ships and nice ones will be very small.

 

And... drop RNG on building... at least cancel the super rare 4/5 5/5 ships and nerf/rationalize random bonuses. I'd like to underline that VeryFast is +3% = it's as good as Copper, WITHOUT using a perm slot. Very Sturdy is +5% HP like Basic Hull Refit (so the best speed trim is powerful as the best speed perm, and the best HP trim is as the basic one... something to rebalance). IF trims are a bit less, less powerful and may be dropping on all ships... well they'll simply give a "character" to the single ship, avoiding to make them something really looked for as it's becoming... becoming another gift to rich players.

 

This reworking, in my opinion, could heavily reduce gear gap, giving a bit bigger chance to less experienced players to compete in PVP without spending a bulkload of time/gold (they anyhow have not).

This way, if a decent PVP ship costs a couple hours farming (and a very good one a couple evenings) the casual can sail on a competitive ship accepting to lose her in my opinion.

Coupled with reduced repairs and demasting... a bunch of random players can gank up and kill a veteran. Again: giving them a reason to sail looking for PVP.

 

Finally, but it's more difficult, finding a way to reward also those losing the ship without getting a kill or an assist... without allowing a new surge of alts/friends farming.

I think this could be necessary only if game mechanics remains as now: << so, dear casual captains, you'll sail a sub-par ship, against super geared one handled by a veteran. You'll sink. 100%. Still you'll get rewarded >> for combat lenght, damage dealt or ???

On the contrary making (as stated above) PVP ships less expensive and less gear dependant could solve alone the issue: << dear casual captains, you'll sail a good PVP ship. If you gank up you'll kill loners even if experienced, if you find another casual you could win... and obviously if you find a vet you'll sink >>

 

It's pretty silly how it's now reward wise.

I will make a real game example: I sailed today on my Renomee. Crossed a Trader Brig. Attacked, 5 mins later boarded him and sunk. I got 5 PVP marks.

Later I accepted a challenge with Warinof. I managed to reduce (best moment) his structure to like 25%; in the end I sunk 10 seconds before the end of battle timer (WTF!...) so after one hour and half battle; that was not a kiting/escaping battle. We fought it, repairing 7-8 times, manouvering, firing, trying a boarding etc... a real and hard fought battle. He (rightfully: skill is skill) won (Salute Again, Sir!). I got nothing.

Isnt this an invite to

I) never accept duels

II) never accept a more or less fair fight

III) always go for ganking

IV) always prey on the weak

V) in any other situation = avoid the combat.

?

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
16 minutes ago, Licinio Chiavari said:

 

It's pretty silly how it's now reward wise.

I will make a real game example: I sailed today on my Renomee. Crossed a Trader Brig. Attacked, 5 mins later boarded him and sunk. I got 5 PVP marks.

Later I accepted a challenge with Warinof. I managed to reduce (best moment) his structure to like 25%; in the end I sunk 10 seconds before the end of battle timer (WTF!...) so after one hour and half battle; that was not a kiting/escaping battle. We fought it, repairing 7-8 times, manouvering, firing, trying a boarding etc... a real and hard fought battle. He (rightfully: skill is skill) won (Salute Again, Sir!). I got nothing.

Isnt this an invite to

I) never accept duels

II) never accept a more or less fair fight

III) always go for ganking

IV) always prey on the weak

V) in any other situation = avoid the combat.

?

Sums it up pretty well...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

On a side note....  but not one that, in my opinion, has no bearing on this discussion....

Theres a small subset of players who insist upon not only beating their opponent(s), but then belittling them in Global chat.  While I’m not really sure there’s much of anything that can be done about this, I would suggest that many players are turned off of PVP by it.  It’s one thing to be beaten by a player. It’s a whole other level of frustration to have tried your best and risked your hard-earned stuff only to be insulted and told how terrible you are. 

Its ridiculous and unnecessary.  

Edited by Vernon Merrill
  • Like 8

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, Vernon Merrill said:

On a side note....  but not one that, in my opinion, has no bearing on this discussion....

Theres a small subset of players who insist upon not only beating their opponent(s), but then belittling them in Global chat.  While I’m not really sure there’s much of anything that can be done about this, I would suggest that many players are turned off of PVP by it.  It’s one thing to be beaten by a player. It’s a whole other level of frustration to have tried your best and risked you lr hard-earned stuff only to be insulted and told how terrible you are. 

Its ridiculous and unnecessary.  

Remove global chat, introduce Local Chat? I can't imagine this being good for anything when player number rises. Keep help chat for game mechanic discussion.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, Slim Jimmerson said:

Remove global chat, introduce Local Chat? I can't imagine this being good for anything when player number rises. Keep help chat for game mechanic discussion.

And heavily moderated

Edited by Licinio Chiavari
  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, Slim Jimmerson said:

Remove global chat, introduce Local Chat? I can't imagine this being good for anything when player number rises. Keep help chat for game mechanic discussion.

Again, not sure there IS a solution.  Only know that it’s not a good way to encourage players to engage others. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
13 minutes ago, SKurj said:

Sums it up pretty well...

And I forgot to underline I lost a Constitution Teak/WO+VerySturdy, not a my far cheaper raider Renomee... and main reason was... I ended hull repairs... because, not being able to spend so much on perms, to keep my ships as fast as possible I count every single repair I think necessary... and I did not espected to fight a so long battle.

Edited by Licinio Chiavari
  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

×