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Patch 17: Finalization of the sailing and combat models

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37 minutes ago, admin said:

yes and no
BR from this patch will depend on the formula. Formula will adapt as we go - thus BR will evolve over the next week or two. 
BR changes are intended but numbers are not final. 

We deploy patches as they are ready and some undeveloped or unfinished features will get it in parallel. The player overreaction is exaggerate no-one will remember the issue in 30 days. 

I will remember.

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15 minutes ago, Banished Privateer said:

I will remember.

Wasa BR  was 250 for like 6 months?

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31 minutes ago, Cmdr RideZ said:

Some common sense before you make a release could be used.

it is common sense in early access
we deploy as soon as main part is ready - it is a lot faster this way.  I am sure you are enjoying new curves for frigates and I am sure you are not not really upset because today 74 br is 5pts higher than bellona due to higher close range DPS at max .cal. 

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15 minutes ago, admin said:

Wasa BR  was 250 for like 6 months?

throughout most of that time, BR was fairly irrelevant. The only downside due to Wasa having way too low BR  was insufficient reward generation for PVP. Only when BR limits to PBs were added, the 250 BR became a problem.

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I'm just happy Connie got buffed. Can't wait to get home and sail it.

Ah, the life of the PvE peasant. Wouldn't trade it for anything.

Edited by Ahoy H.R. Matey

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5 hours ago, admin said:

No Captain. 
Solo engagement had same % of demasting in sustained combat.

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MHnQUXB.jpg

But there is always a counter. You can fit your ship against similar opponents to never get fully demasted. You cant against much heavier ships. 

Exactly but a couple of points. These were mostly very close range fights. Specifically in the engagements above masts came down and rigging was damaged after being entangled and the standing rigging shot away weakening the masts.

What would be rare is an entire mast coming down after being shot at with several rounds of 42 lb ball from 500m. Personally I haven't played since the recent patch so I don't know if that has changed in game.

 

4 hours ago, maturin said:

So did you, err, read any combat reports?

It's basically unheard-of for two frigates to get in a fight without at least a topmast coming down. If nobody was dismasted, it's probably because one side got totally crushed in 15 minutes.

Of course, even when Chesapeake was captured in 15 minutes, the decisive factor was rig damage. Her jibs were shredded and she luffed up to get boarded.

This is an example of sail control lines being shot away, but again a very close range engagement. (I'd also argue Chesapeake had multiple problems but I get your point).

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24 minutes ago, DeRuyter said:

Exactly but a couple of points. These were mostly very close range fights. Specifically in the engagements above masts came down and rigging was damaged after being entangled and the standing rigging shot away weakening the masts.

What would be rare is an entire mast coming down after being shot at with several rounds of 42 lb ball from 500m. Personally I haven't played since the recent patch so I don't know if that has changed in game.

 

This is an example of sail control lines being shot away, but again a very close range engagement. (I'd also argue Chesapeake had multiple problems but I get your point).

Thank you for underlining something I repeated a lot.

Demasting happened. A lot. Not purposely aiming balls to masts at 100 mt.

Period.

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I look forward to BR adjustments hopefully making more sense in the future tweaks. 

Personally, I don't think "DPS" should play a role in BR. People talk about it all the time, but to put it in perspective, lets consider an example: 18pdrs have higher DPS than 24pdrs right? So two equal Constitutions, one with 18pdrs and one with 24pdrs, equally skilled captains...which will win the battle? Or for a more extreme example...things have probably changed, but the last time I calculated DPS long guns, I believe it was 6pd longs that had the best DPS...should the Constitution load those instead? (can it even load those? I think the minimum is 9pdrs).  Surely, since they out-DPS 24s, they are the better choice, right?  Ultimately, using smaller cannons for higher DPS is a joke in a real battle (unless you are using EdiNOOB guns).

Instead, BR should be set, by ship, taking into account all aspects of that ship. I'd love to sail an Indefatigable into a PB some day. Unfortunately, the BR is simply too high in comparison to the other ships I could bring which would perform much better in a PB setting.

Perhaps a new mechanic could be added to help this: when a player joins a PB, he has the "Port Battle BR" applied to his ship. When he is sailing in OW, he has the standard BR. This could be handy because, in a 1v1, any 4th rate vs Indefatigable is a roughly even match, with the 4th rates being slightly advantaged, BR should (and looking at the new list, I think it does) reflect that. In a PB, however,  Indefatigable is no match for a 4th rate, BR should reflect that (it does not, the BR is simply too close). So sailing in OW, an Indefatigable skipper would see the normal BR, when he joins a PB, however, the PB BR is applied and his ship doesn't take up as much BR.  Indefatigable is not alone in this situation, all ships could benefit from this system. But it may be difficult to code into the game.
 

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6 hours ago, McKnight said:

This list is taken from the games database and should be correct (I only made an error on the LGV Refit). All the ships we have seen today is correct according to the list

It can be found as spreadsheet here as well: 

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1znngzQBj6DHuYNHsYeh-Mw9fzHVYV6AlqzSjLaKOfAU/edit#gid=0

Thanks but still would been nice if Devs released this with the patch notes as it's important info to know.  Also would be nice if BR's where listed on the ship card in port.  I hate having to go to sea to check my BR's out every time.

6 hours ago, admin said:

Regarding BR

The formula needs some minor tweaks to incorporate Spike damage, and dps at 500m. That will make it perfect and will fix some strange differences.

The problem is not every one uses that key load out, so if I go one way my BR should be higher, but I go another way than it should be lower?  So my Renno with all 6 lbrs will out DPS a 9 lbr Renno so it should have a higher BR cause I have lighter guns?  I don't get this thinking.  Yah it needs some tweeking along with the Port BR rating if it's going to stay close to this list.

4 hours ago, Christendom said:

could someone please explain to me....like I'm a 5 year old.....why the aggie has a higher BR rating than the Wasa (which just got a buff)?

Maybe just maybe we might get the Aggy's old stats back?

4 hours ago, Slim Jimmerson said:

because.....:mellow:

One is a 3rd rate the other a 4th rate.

Wait....:huh:

If she had her old stats back from when she came out she could fall under 3rd rate again with the Wasa lol

4 hours ago, Teutonic said:

I think it's funny that DPS is considered a thing when a lot of folks have looked at the numbers and have consistently said that always fitting the best Cannon you can load on a ship is better than fitting a smaller caliber.

example, why would you ever fit a 24pd cannon when you can fit a 32pd or 42pd cannon on that deck.

Well in some cases the Carros or lighter guns are better, but should be the norm.  IF they are going to do this than BR should have a range on ships and it is adjusted by you gun lay out so a ship that normally has 250 BR can have like 225-275 according to guns.

4 hours ago, Slim Jimmerson said:

There's a lot of other good stuff in there. Frankly I find the lack of discussion on the new UI, disturbing

I'll discus it when it's in game, so far we are seeing nice place holders, but I want to see it in game first.

2 hours ago, admin said:

yes and no
BR from this patch will depend on the formula. Formula will adapt as we go - thus BR will evolve over the next week or two. 
BR changes are intended but numbers are not final. 

We deploy patches as they are ready and some undeveloped or unfinished features will get it in parallel. The player overreaction is exaggerated no-one will remember the issue in 30 days. 

I don't mind testing new things, but I think most of us feel it's not the correct way to figure out BR for ships.  The listed needed to be adjusted and so does port BR's as it seems the fleet is getting smaller and smaller for them which actually has turned many folks off when you can only bring 5-6 ships instead of say 10-12.   I know folks that stopped playing cause we never see big 25 vs 25 fleets any more.  Some key ports should have the BR limited high enough to still have these big fleet battles.  Maybe you can only bring 10-15 first rates, but you could also bring 25 4th rates at Cart or something like that.  The battle maps of PB's are a bit to big to make it 5-6 ships to attack or defend a port.

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8 hours ago, maturin said:

So did you, err, read any combat reports?

It's basically unheard-of for two frigates to get in a fight without at least a topmast coming down. If nobody was dismasted, it's probably because one side got totally crushed in 15 minutes.

Of course, even when Chesapeake was captured in 15 minutes, the decisive factor was rig damage. Her jibs were shredded and she luffed up to get boarded.

Yeah - the top mast.. Which is basically about 15% of the sail area.. Hardly as game changing as the current full demasts of all three masts we have ingame.. Have you err.... Played this game recently??

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8 hours ago, Louis Garneray said:

 

Ambroise Louis Garneray before being a painter was a sailor.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ambroise_Louis_Garneray

What is the purpose for a painter to paint a picture? - To depict reality or to invoke an emotional response in the viewer - most often either nobility or royalty, and admiralties that wish to honour decisive victories? Would you call painting - by them self - valid historical sources for depicting a naval engagement?

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10 minutes ago, Bearwall said:

What is the purpose for a painter to paint a picture? - To depict reality or to invoke an emotional response in the viewer - most often either nobility or royalty, and admiralties that wish to honour decisive victories? Would you call painting - by them self - valid historical sources for depicting a naval engagement?

 

FTLOG please don't start a god damn fake news debate in a patch note thread for a video game +

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5 minutes ago, Quineloe said:

 

FTLOG please don't start a god damn fake news debate in a patch note thread for a video game +

lol well... ok.. ehm.. where does this aggresiveness come from.. did you have a happy childhood?

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"have been slightly decreased"

Well, the word 'slightly' seems to mean anything from 50% to 100% for our beloved devs.

We would prefer to have actual DATA. (*(*&^holes).

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3 hours ago, Bearwall said:

Yeah - the top mast.. Which is basically about 15% of the sail area.. Hardly as game changing as the current full demasts of all three masts we have ingame.. Have you err.... Played this game recently??

You realize that the topmast mounts the second-lowest sail, right? There are the topgallants and royals above it, and losing the foretopmast will take all your headsails and 2/3 main staysails. That's way more than 15%.

All the complaining in the past few months has been specifically about topgallant and topmasts going down, because they can be penned. Lower masts aren't the issue.

Edinorogs were so OP in the right hands because they could be elevated so high to one-shot the topgallantmasts. 

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27 minutes ago, maturin said:

You realize that the topmast mounts the second-lowest sail, right? There are the topgallants and royals above it, and losing the foretopmast will take all your headsails and 2/3 main staysails. That's way more than 15%.

All the complaining in the past few months has been specifically about topgallant and topmasts going down, because they can be penned. Lower masts aren't the issue.

Edinorogs were so OP in the right hands because they could be elevated so high to one-shot the topgallantmasts. 

You can easily pen the lower part of the masts - one perk for you - double charge.. Have you played the game lately or not?

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33 minutes ago, Bearwall said:

You can easily pen the lower part of the masts - one perk for you - double charge.. Have you played the game lately or not?

Yes, do you?

Upper masts come down far more often. People hardly even complain about lower masts any more. They complain about losing multiple upper masts in a single broadside.

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I made a post referencing it.

 

I wanna know how much RUBLI paid for this swap, or is this a special streamer perk.  What other maps changed?

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3 hours ago, Wraith said:

@admin Nice job ninja patching port circle locations... And you wonder why your users hate you?

In general only 35% of players do not recommend the game, there of course will be players who hate somethings or everything.
In terms of patch notes we know that some like our approach to patch notes. some dont. We are not accepting the general industry trend of treating players like they are toddlers and all have to be chewed and explained in detail. We believe that content has to be found out by playing or planning.

In this particular matter we want shallows to play more role in that battle 
In the future we want to make circle locations shift over time (indicated by towers that also shift) so players have to scout locations of towers to determine objective locations.

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@admin Couldn't you still achieve your goal of rewarding players for scouting PB objective locations while still not holding the player's hands? Something along the lines of just putting "Changed the location of some objectives in PB's to help with balance" in the patch notes. You are letting the players know there are some changes while still being vague enough to let the players find out what objective was changed in, what well may be only one port, of the over 100 ports in the game. 

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2 hours ago, admin said:

In general only 35% of players do not recommend the game, there of course will be players who hate somethings or everything.
In terms of patch notes we know that some like our approach to patch notes. some dont. We are not accepting the general industry trend of treating players like they are toddlers and all have to be chewed and explained in detail. We believe that content has to be found out by playing or planning.

In this particular matter we want shallows to play more role in that battle 
In the future we want to make circle locations shift over time (indicated by towers that also shift) so players have to scout locations of towers to determine objective locations.

A simple mention they changed like @Westgate post is all that is needed, that is not holding our hands like toddlers.   

Second how can we scout something you can't see until the actual port battle?  These should be things known a head of time cause they are magical circles that seem to just move around.  So how do we scout and where do we get this info if that is your plans? 

Personally I think with the smaller BR's some of the circles can be dropped.

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2 minutes ago, Sir Texas Sir said:

A simple mention they changed like @Westgate post is all that is needed, that is not holding our hands like toddlers.   

Second how can we scout something you can't see until the actual port battle?  These should be things known a head of time cause they are magical circles that seem to just move around.  So how do we scout and where do we get this info if that is your plans? 

Personally I think with the smaller BR's some of the circles can be dropped.

Defenders should be able to set how many circles a point has for a price

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