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A new low even for Russia

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after this battle  the Russian survivors scattered to the winds.  our fleet split in two in order to kill as many as we could.  the 

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The following battle is a screen shot of Skmarsh, Christendom, Jack Aubrey, Wraith. 3 (Wraith, Jack Aubrey, Skmarsh)of them green on green sank each other in order to deny content. We all know the quality of the Russian playerbase due to the port swapping with Spain to win the RVR competition. But this is a new low even for the Russian. Perhaps this is worth some action by the devs? If the devs don't see fit to do something than at least the playerbase will know the quality of the players in Russia 

31A5DD045E00ECF0F5B1DE9B28FF87C936FAC571

 

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7824c83837d07e0c5676be1ae23fb51b.png

Historically scuttling ships to deny them to the enemy was a valid and practiced upon strategy.  I believe admin has already ruled on the subject.  

Now if you had fought us fairly with a 4v4, we would of played your game.  You chose to bring in insurmountable odds and our people chose to deny you content.

Seems fair IMO. 

------

You sure do a lot of complaining on the forums.  I thought texas bred men, not whiners?

Edited by Christendom
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The devs have ruled before that green on green is allowed if consent is given. Whether or not it is good form is up to the community, but there should be no punishment for this. 

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1 hour ago, Christendom said:

7824c83837d07e0c5676be1ae23fb51b.png

Historically scuttling ships to deny them to the enemy was a valid and practiced upon strategy.  I believe admin has already ruled on the subject.  

Now if you had fought us fairly with a 4v4, we would of played your game.  You chose to bring in insurmountable odds and our people chose to deny you content.

Seems fair IMO. 

------

You sure do a lot of complaining on the forums.  I thought texas bred men, not whiners?

Strange how some players only see fair ... when they lose

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20 minutes ago, Le Raf Boom said:

However you twist it, lame is lame.

So is expecting to sail out and collect marks just because you have numbers.  Hope you enjoyed the barbecue at the end. 

Honestly, I'm not sure why you're moaning.. you got fights, you got marks. Sure, you utterly failed to actually capture the port you set out to... That was due to some pretty garbage planning on your part but we know that's not your strong suit.  We all had some fun.

Why you hef to be mad?

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So much salt.  Mad when we don’t give them content.  Mad when we do. We should just go France and join up with kingy like the rest of the band wagoners 

20 minutes ago, Grundgemunkey said:

Strange how some players only see fair ... when they lose

You’re still around?  Lol.  

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well i agree ....when in a battle it is a tactic ..

the question remains : if it is honorable ,

it all depends how you look at it  ....

some captains who scuffled their ships became national HEROEs

 

examples :

 

HMS Sapphire (1696)[edit]

HMS Sapphire was a 32-gun, fifth-rate sailing frigate of the Royal Navy in Newfoundland Colony to protect the English migratory fishery. The vessel was trapped in Bay Bulls harbour by four French naval vessels led by Jacques-François de Brouillan. To avoid its capture, the English scuttled the vessel on 11 September 1696.

Siege of Yorktown (1781)[edit]

The British sank one ship on October 10, 1781 to prevent it from being captured by the French fleet.

Chesapeake Bay Flotilla (1814)[edit]

During the War of 1812, Commodore Joshua Barney, of the U.S. Navy, Chesapeake Bay Flotilla, sank all nineteen of his fighting vessels, to keep them from falling into the hands of the British, as he and his men marched, inland, in the defense of Washington DC.

Jan van Speijk (1831)[edit]

During the Belgian war of independence, Dutch gunboat commander Jan van Speijk came under attack from a mob of Antwerp labourers. When they forced him and his crew to surrender, he ignited a barrel of gunpowder, thus sinking his ship and killing himself and most of the crew. Van Speijk went on to become a national hero in The Netherlands.

Russian Black Sea Fleet in Sevastopol (1854)[edit]

220px-No48p173_sauvetage_sebastopol-e02-
 
A ship lying underwater in Sevastopol, 1858.

During the Crimean War, in anticipation of the Siege of Sevastopol, the Russians scuttled ships of the Black Sea Fleet to protect the harbour, to use their naval cannon as additional artillery, and to free up the ships' crews as marines. Those ships that were deliberately sunk included Grand Duke Constantine, City of Paris (both with 120 guns), Brave, Empress Maria, Chesme, Yagondeid (84 guns), Kavarna (60 guns), Konlephy (54 guns), steam frigate Vladimir, steamboats Thunderer, Bessarabia, Danube, Odessa, Elbrose and Krein. After the war, it became a technological challenge to recover the ships.

USS Merrimack/CSS Virginia (1861)[edit]

220px-USS_Merrimack%3Bh58880.jpg
 
Merrimack alight 20 April 1861.

In April 1861, the United States Navy steam frigate USS Merrimack was among several ships Union forces set afire or scuttled at the Gosport Navy Yard (now Norfolk Naval Shipyard) in Portsmouth, Virginia, to keep them from falling into Confederate hands at the outbreak of the American Civil War. The unsuccessful attempt at scuttling Merrimack enabled the Confederate States Navy to raise and rebuild her as the broadside ironclad CSS Virginia. Shortly after her famous engagement with the U.S Navy monitor USS Monitor in the Battle of Hampton Roads in March 1862, the Confederates scuttled Virginia to keep her from being captured by Union forces.

Stone Fleet[edit]

Main article: Stone Fleet

In December 1861 and January 1862, Union forces scuttled a number of former whalers and other merchant ships in an attempt to block access to Confederate ports during the American Civil War. Loaded with stone before being scuttled, the scuttled ships were known as the "Stone Fleet." Those scuttled in December 1861 sometimes are called the "First Stone Fleet," while those sunk in January 1862 sometimes are termed the "Second Stone Fleet."

Peruvian fleet at El Callao (1881)[edit]

During the War of the Pacific, as Chilean troops entered Lima and El Callao, the Peruvian naval officer Germán Astete ordered the whole Peruvian fleet to be scuttled to prevent capture by Chile.

USS Merrimac (1898)[edit]

During the Spanish-American War, a volunteer crew of United States Navy personnel attempted to scuttle the collier USS Merrimac in the entrance to the harbor at Santiago de Cuba in Cuba on the night of 2-3 June 1898 in an attempt to trap the Spanish Navy squadron of Vice Admiral Manuel de la Cámara y Libermoore in port there. The attempt failed when she came under fire by Spanish ships and fortifications and sank without blocking the entrance.

SS Kaiser Wilhelm der Grosse (1914)[edit]

In August 1914, SS Kaiser Wilhelm der Grosse was requisitioned by the Kaiserliche Marine and converted into an auxiliary cruiser, assigned to commerce raiding in the Atlantic. She was fitted with six 10.5 cm (4 inch) guns and two 37 mm guns. After sparing two passenger ships because they were carrying many women and children, she sank two freighters before she herself was sunk on 26 August 1914. She was caught refuelling off the shore of the then Spanish colony of Río de Oro in western Africa by the old British 6-inch gunned cruiser HMS Highflyer. Badly outgunned, the ship eventually ran out of ammunition. The crew abandoned and scuttled her. British sources at the time insisted that Kaiser Wilhelm der Grosse sank because of the damage inflicted by Highflyer.

SMS Dresden (1915)[edit]

In December 1914, SMS Dresden was the only German warship to escape destruction in the Battle of the Falkland Islands. She eluded her British pursuers for several more months, until she put into Más a Tierra in March 1915. Her engines were worn out and she had almost no coal left for her boilers. There, she was trapped by British cruisers, which violated Chilean neutrality and opened fire on the ship. Dresden's Executive Officer - the future Admiral Wilhelm Canaris - negotiated with the British and bought time for his shipmates to scuttle Dresden.

Zeebrugge Raid (1918)[edit]

The Zeebrugge Raid involved three outdated British cruisers chosen to serve as blockships in the German-held Belgian port of Bruges-Zeebrugge from which German U-boat operations threatened British shipping. Thetis, Intrepid and Iphigenia were filled with concrete then sent to block a critical canal. Heavy defensive fire caused the Thetis to scuttle prematurely; the other two cruisers sank themselves successfully in the narrowest part of the canal. Within three days, however, the Germans had broken through the western bank of the canal to create a shallow detour for their submarines to move past the blockships at high tide.

 

a very good suggestion would be to make the surrender button named >>>scuffel you ship      >> SCUFFLE

where goods can be still in the ship(if not deliberate destroyed) but the crew abandoning the ship  surender is such a negative word some times 

there are heroes Too....

Edited by Thonys
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 During the white oak ports battles between the french and spanish, in one of those (I think was Beloxi pb) 2 spanish first rates sank each other when they were screened by the hired pirate clan BURN. Maybe the russians learned from them.

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8 minutes ago, Thonys said:

well i agree ....when in a battle it is a tactic ..

the question remains : if it is honorable ,

it all depends how you look at it  ....

some captains who scuffled their ships became national HEROEs

 But for others was the opposite, captain Hans Langsdorff after scuffling the Graf Spee took his own life fearing a return to Germany in shame.

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2 minutes ago, Cabral said:

 But for others was the opposite, captain Hans Langsdorff after scuffling the Graf Spee took his own life fearing a return to Germany in shame.

yes, but he was trapped (what in itself is not a positive situation ...)

it was a order from the high command  , they did not get the ship as a trophy 

and it was more like > the ship goes down with the captain 

the crew on the other hand did not get killed 

 

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5 minutes ago, Thonys said:

yes, but he was trapped (what in itself is not a positive situation ...)

it was a order from the high command  , they did not get the ship as a trophy 

and it was more like > the ship goes down with the captain 

the crew on the other hand did not get killed

 Sorry, but wasn't a order from the high command, orders from high command in that time (Hitler) as we all know, was to fight to the death. The decision to scuffle the Graf Spee was from captain Langsdorff himself. In my opinion he died with honor but was not considered a hero in Germany.

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1 minute ago, Cabral said:

 Sorry, but wasn't a order from the high command, orders from high command in that time (Hitler) as we all know, was to fight to the death. The decision to scuffle the Graf Spee was from captain Langsdorff himself. In my opinion he died with honor but was not considered a hero in Germany.

well a lot of crew survived in argentina i quess

perhaps a good decision of the  captain... (and should be rehabilitated for it perhaps , ( in my eyes ),but let not go in politics  on this matterer,  for me a no go area [captains decision] )

fight to the " certain  death "is a bit .....  (the captain knew that, and hitler was not there,. >  he was the commander and made this decision for the best thing to do  )

 

 

 

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It's a valid tactics. Not nice but the more I get a look on the VCO vs WO thingy, methinks it was never about fair play or fun from either side. #somuchhatred

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28 minutes ago, Palatinose said:

It's a valid tactics. Not nice but the more I get a look on the VCO vs WO thingy, methinks it was never about fair play or fun from either side. #somuchhatred

agreed ,

well,... shit happens sometimes ,on both sides ...

 

scuffle*  is ... valid.!

Edited by Thonys

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Maybe the devs can install a scuttle button so anytime someone faces odds they do not like they can sink themselves so their opponents dont get marks.

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24 minutes ago, Palatinose said:

It's a valid tactics. Not nice but the more I get a look on the VCO vs WO thingy, methinks it was never about fair play or fun from either side. #somuchhatred

I think it's more the KoC side of things with all the hate, we actually think it's pretty funny how much they go after @Christendom and it's like he has some secret crush with how much he talks about him and such..  On a side note I got off work early tonight and when I logged into TS and say a bunch of US in it and out guys mixed together chatting and having a good time.  Let me tell you these are NPG and MARS guys that I use to fight on GLOBAL.  We made some jokes, I mention to Jweller how I still got his captured L'ocean (from the last PB we fought against each other) and it was nice.  It was this way when VCO went Pirates.  We where fighting each other tooth and nails one day and than the next we all joined together and got a long. Right now France US prime time guys are like the BLACK on GLOBAL, top RvR guys that have the numbers and most of them are very skilled RvR players.  If you look at the screen that is two nations working together for a common cause.  Some of those players where just in a port battle early this week against each other (Little River).  I think the thing is most of use is just tired of KoC and his crap.   They speak about honor and stuff, we saw them pull a lot of shaddy crap back on GLOBAL and I"m sure they will pull them here on this server so they really don't have room to speak about what is honorable or not.  Hell I seen them do the same thing try to shoot each other to prevent us from capturing there ships, but we go to them and captured the ships.  So they done the exact same thing.  

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1 minute ago, Archaos said:

Maybe the devs can install a scuttle button so anytime someone faces odds they do not like they can sink themselves so their opponents dont get marks.

That would be terrible abused.  It's all ready bad enough they can surrender before you fire and do the same.   If no damage is done to a ship than no one gets any award.  

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Just now, Sir Texas Sir said:

That would be terrible abused.  It's all ready bad enough they can surrender before you fire and do the same.   If no damage is done to a ship than no one gets any award.  

I was being sarcastic, as that is what appears to have happened in this case with them sinking themselves with green on green fire.

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