Jump to content
Game-Labs Forum
admin

Patch 16: Control, Mast and Ship strengths rebalance.

Recommended Posts

1 minute ago, admin said:

 you need those books to make elite versions of a refit

I know. I meant that a knowledge slot (not permanent modification to the ship) rightfully influences less the values.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Cmdr RideZ said:

Masts are in balance when even pro players use chain shots to shoot rigging.  Chain shot is there, it should be used, else remove chain shots from the game.

Why is it bad if people can demast top or middle masts? You actually need to aim very well and abuse the enemy position (if he shows his broadside you rarley hit masts for example).

Its much more fun and skill based than boring chaining.

Chain has its place already, its very useful when chasing a ship or when the enemy has mast upgrades.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm eager to try the buff of the Pirate Rig refit on the Constitution - i would guess it would make her tack much better. Perhaps that's the missing part to make her a "super-frigate" :D

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
11 minutes ago, admin said:

1. HP was rebalance based on the ship hull weigh (displacements). Generally a heavier ship would have more displacement AND more HP

Next step BR , and final tunes.
2. My personal feel lower thickness made combat more dynamic, but slightly reduced the skill level plank you need to reach to win fights (which means its harder to win if you are outnumbered by sheer skill). 
3. More guns are usable now (mediums probably are a new meta). Previously most pvp players sailed with longs and charge perk. Now there are a lot more options. 
 

1. I explained it for other players.  You use a linear curve here?  You could consider to change your algorithm to produce results like... 4.2.jpg

Curve here to make a point.  Not saying it should follow that curve but to give an idea.

 

2. It can be that I am asking something impossible and something that you are not interested at all.  In my opinion, this kind of slow paced shooters make excellent tactical shooters.  You don't win games by being better mast sniper, you win games because you make better tactical decisions.  Simple example...

Not tactical: You have a good line to masts you take a shot, hit the masts, win the game.

Tactical: You have a good line to masts but you cannot penetrate, you cannot take a shot, you did not win the game.  I have to get in better position?  How do I get in better position?  How do I fail to end up to these situations where I cannot take a good shot?  How is that possible that my enemy is always in a good position?

This is a long shot but will say it.  I think that we ended up to this situation when people wanted to stern rake only and their opponent was able to protect her stern.  In that "protected" position, your enemy has his hull well angled, there is no place to fire good and clean stern rake.  You also have wrong ammunition type to shoot sails.  BUT you are in pretty good position to mast rake.  Also if you remember how much people wanted high ball stern rake damage?  I believe it was because of this one trick pony tactic.  You have balls loaded in every situation, you shoot either stern or mast rake.  In my opinion, you have been balancing this game for very long time for this specific playstyle only.

I have said many times that grapes for raking and chains for rigging.  This way we have to load different ammunition types.  If we are not able to maneuver and estimate where we will be after cannons are loaded, after X seconds, then we are not able to get that good shot we were planning to take.  That is deterministic.  The playstyle you have been buffing all the time is opportunistic.  Which one you think is more skill based?  The one where you are offered good shots by doing nothing?  Or the one where you have to plan before hand what is going to happen after X seconds?

Many players I know quit the game because you started to go more and more to opportunistic way.  I am here, waiting, that you once again start to go deterministic and tactical direction.  If you take deterministic and tactical direction, Naval Action will be the best tactical shooter there has ever been.

 

3. Edinorogs are better than mediums?  If your plan was to buff mediums, well, none will know this if you don't remove/nerf Edinorogs.  Edinorogs simply harm your testing, harm your development.  If you want to keep those like those are in the future, Russian Victory day special, then remove those for now at least.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 minutes ago, Bragan Benigaris said:

I'm eager to try the buff of the Pirate Rig refit on the Constitution - i would guess it would make her tack much better. Perhaps that's the missing part to make her a "super-frigate" :D

A fir fir Connie with a couple speed ups and opt.rudder + light block already can tack with exit speed around 3.5/4.0.

The problem I noticed on Connie is that +jib power mods/books seemed to not better her handling in any way.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
21 minutes ago, Jon Snow lets go said:

Why is it bad if people can demast top or middle masts? You actually need to aim very well and abuse the enemy position (if he shows his broadside you rarley hit masts for example).

Its much more fun and skill based than boring chaining.

Chain has its place already, its very useful when chasing a ship or when the enemy has mast upgrades.

So chains should be only for noobs?  New players who did not know that shooting balls to top and mids is more efficient than chains?

If mast sniping would be actually difficult and that I could not do it, then maybe yes.  If our tiny-tiny community had 1 or max 3 pro players who could do it, I probably would say yes for mast sniping.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 minutes ago, Cmdr RideZ said:

So chains should be only for noobs?  New players who did not know that shooting balls to top and mids is more efficient than chains?

If mast sniping would be actually difficult and that I could not do it, then maybe yes.  If our tiny-tiny community had 1 or max 3 pro players who could do it, I probably would say yes for mast sniping.

Try to read everything the next time man

49 minutes ago, Jon Snow lets go said:

Chain has its place already, its very useful when chasing a ship or when the enemy has mast upgrades.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
11 minutes ago, Cmdr RideZ said:

So chains should be only for noobs?  New players who did not know that shooting balls to top and mids is more efficient than chains?

If mast sniping would be actually difficult and that I could not do it, then maybe yes.  If our tiny-tiny community had 1 or max 3 pro players who could do it, I probably would say yes for mast sniping.

We want to test something else with chains moving giving them a another role -  a disablement tool
They will reduce sails less, BUT they will lock yards for longer by means of rigging shocks if you shoot them the right way. 
Example -

  • You load chain; planning in advance waiting for the right moment
  • You wait and shoot chains at the right moment during enemy turn when his yards are in the opposite positions
  • This locks enemy into a rigging shock (chains gets stuck around the rigging locking his yards in that position for 1 min)
  • Enemy yards are stuck and they turn him into the wind into irons
  • You switch to ball or grape and rake him while he is trying to remove chains from rigging to unstuck the yards
  • ….
  • Profit


 

  • Like 6

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 minutes ago, admin said:

We want to test something else with chains moving giving them a another role -  a disablement tool
They will reduce sails less, BUT they will lock yards for longer by means of rigging shocks if you shoot them the right way. 
Example -

  • You load chain; planning in advance waiting for the right moment
  • You wait and shoot chains at the right moment during enemy turn when his yards are in the opposite positions
  • This locks enemy into a rigging shock (chains gets stuck around the rigging locking his yards in that position for 1 min)
  • Enemy yards are stuck and they turn him into the wind into irons
  • You switch to ball or grape and rake him while he is trying to remove chains from rigging to unstuck the yards
  • ….
  • Profit


 

What has always been missing from chains is the fact that they would cut the rigging just as much as they would cut the sail. They should also do some minor mast hp dmg to reflect that the whole construction of masts and rig becomes less stable by cutting stays etc.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, Wraith said:

I do not approve. There will be only one meta: chain and board.

you will have to chain right. get the right damage in anyway. Sterncamping and turning your bow to the enemy will be riskier. 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

патч далеко, локализация еще дальше
прогресс есть

пример того как будет выглядеть приблизительно

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

patch away, localization even further
progress is

an example of how it will look like

 

2z4Cw5L.jpg

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
17 minutes ago, admin said:

We want to test something else with chains moving giving them a another role -  a disablement tool
They will reduce sails less, BUT they will lock yards for longer by means of rigging shocks if you shoot them the right way. 
Example -

  • You load chain; planning in advance waiting for the right moment
  • You wait and shoot chains at the right moment during enemy turn when his yards are in the opposite positions
  • This locks enemy into a rigging shock (chains gets stuck around the rigging locking his yards in that position for 1 min)
  • Enemy yards are stuck and they turn him into the wind into irons
  • You switch to ball or grape and rake him while he is trying to remove chains from rigging to unstuck the yards
  • ….
  • Profit


 

Granted that purposely aiming to masts at 100+ mts is totally unreal and puts some balancing issues (already States), as an experiment for... 1 month? Would It simpler to make demasting not a viable tactic?

The captains have to make tactical decisions, have to get and keep wind advantage, can choose if going to slow down enemy aiming at sails with chains (french way) or go for hull with balls (british way). The best gunner and sailor, wins.

I think veterans will keep leading in pvp... even without demasting. Still in a far more realistic way.

 

Addendum.

PS: how? Make mast hit box very very small. A bit even more mast HP, and damage to sails damage a bit masts top.

Edited by Licinio Chiavari
Addendum

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I like that the EA UI we have at the moment is not intrusive and that it doesn't take away attention from the beauty of the OW.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 minutes ago, Wraith said:

Am I the only one that hopes they improve and maintain the current interface as an option? I don't need fancy art and twiddly knobs, to walk around town or click my way through 10 screens just to get to some basic information...

I want an option that is simple, clean, effective, and responsive. 

Nope, mate you're not alone. Maybe some more contrast in coloring but otherwise i really like the current ui - nothing between the beautiful ships and myself

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
57 minutes ago, Cmdr RideZ said:

So chains should be only for noobs?  New players who did not know that shooting balls to top and mids is more efficient than chains?

Chain is already very powerful. A Snow can take about 20% sails from an Agamemnon in 1 broadside. 
Ofcourse, it requires patience and decent aim just like demasting. 
 

32 minutes ago, Licinio Chiavari said:

The captains have to make tactical decisions, have to get and keep wind advantage, can choose if going to slow down enemy aiming at sails with chains (french way) or go for hull with balls (british way). The best gunner and sailor, wins.

"The best gunner". I'd argue that when properly balanced, demasting is more about being "the best gunner" than both chaining and hullbashing but maybe that is just me? 
Furthermore, when chaining and demasting is equally valid tactic, you still have to make "tactical decisions". 

I don't understand why everyone is so much against demasting, but loves chaining? 

 

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Я не так давно игре, должен сказать, что осваиваться при постоянно меняющихся условиях очень непросто.

Допустим, мы делаем балансировку лодки, чтобы ровнее шла. Если резко перемещать по очереди разный груз, пусть и на правильные места,
то можно начерпать. Вот имхо крайние патчи они раскачивают лодку. Т.е. движение как бы ощущается, и попытки сбалансировать боевку это хорошо,
но больно резкие движения и разнонаправленные. Как в сказку про то, как лиса делила сыр. Бигдата у вас есть (надеюсь вы на логи и статистику опираетесь, а не на мнение 20 человек на форуме), что мешает делать исправления, сильно затрагивающие геймплей (например толщину и пробитие), в одном патче? Создание движухи в разработке? Зачем? Имхо будет лучше выкладывать изменения реже, но уже в сбалансированном, требующем минимальной подстройки виде. Если конечно у вас в голове есть приблизительная картина, каким должен быть NA.

 

Интерфейс этот книжный - шлак. Рисуйте задники нормальные, трюм (разный на разных кораблях), пирс со всеми корабями игрока обязательно.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 minutes ago, TommyShelby said:

Chain is already very powerful. A Snow can take about 20% sails from an Agamemnon in 1 broadside. 
Ofcourse, it requires patience and decent aim just like demasting. 

Chains are very powerful.  Masts have been coming down so fast that if chains were not very powerful, there would be 0 purpose for those.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, admin said:

Edinorogs are too strong and supply is vast as a result they will be rebalanced next week
 

So you give people a newyears present - let's say a bottle of fine wodka - and 6 weeks later you replace that wodka for a bottle of beer. Is that normal procedure in Eastern Europe?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
13 hours ago, maturin said:

20F4F2822989134926D82E61891B90C44F03F2F8

I must be bad at this or something. 100 hits from 24 and 42 pounders. I had to stop when the LGV was in danger of sinking.

Then I switched to shooting at the mast itself, and it went down in only 5 hits.

I'm not doubting your experience, but it isn't set up correctly, and we don't know how it works.

I have stern raked a Brig and taken its mast off without aiming at the mast while using a Surprise with carros at a range of 50m. 

 

You have to factor in the penetration of the side of the hull, in this case what 55cm? Then the penetration of the mast to do damage. 

Basically, it is Hull Thickness + Mast Thickness vs Penetration of shot.  

 

So in this case, LGV base 55cm + 66cm for the mast. So 121cm total on a dead on shot. 

You are about 50m away... give or take with 42lb mediums? 128cm penetration.  

So you were barely getting through the mast. 

I cant find information on the foremast thickness.. but I am sure it is closer to 45cm so you were most likely getting through it with just mediums but not sure if the damage is degraded.  

But I know it is possible to shoot through the hull and bring down a mast.  The main mast extends all the way to the keel in game. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Knobby said:

What has always been missing from chains is the fact that they would cut the rigging just as much as they would cut the sail. They should also do some minor mast hp dmg to reflect that the whole construction of masts and rig becomes less stable by cutting stays etc.

To me chain should do increased chance at rigging shock.  To simulate the loss of the rigging more than the damage to the sails. 

I dont think the damage should be buffed, or they should do damage to masts.  

A well placed chain broadside should immobilize the sails for a bit because the crew is struggling getting the lines and rigging fixed and back under control.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
17 minutes ago, TommyShelby said:

Chain is already very powerful. A Snow can take about 20% sails from an Agamemnon in 1 broadside. 
Ofcourse, it requires patience and decent aim just like demasting. 
 

"The best gunner". I'd argue that when properly balanced, demasting is more about being "the best gunner" than both chaining and hullbashing but maybe that is just me? 
Furthermore, when chaining and demasting is equally valid tactic, you still have to make "tactical decisions". 

I don't understand why everyone is so much against demasting, but loves chaining? 

 

Best gunner in a barely more realistic situation.

Again:

1. Aiming at masts is totally unreal.

2. It's a game mechanic that doesnt make the game better for majority of players.

3. It comes with a bulkload of balancing issues.

Conclusion: better get rid of it.

As said, let's try a month with demasting nerfed to nothingness

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

@Licinio Chiavari Aiming at masts is totally realistic, and battles often ended with ships having lost yards/ topmasts, i don't know from where you got this idea ? Single shots sniping is not, i grant you that, neither are stabilized guns.

 

Keep the low masts sections as they are now but give us the previous top masts sections values, reducing the gun stabilisation or the hitboxes sizes would have been a better solution. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 minutes ago, Licinio Chiavari said:

Best gunner in a barely more realistic situation.

Again:

1. Aiming at masts is totally unreal.

2. It's a game mechanic that doesnt make the game better for majority of players.

3. It comes with a bulkload of balancing issues.

Conclusion: better get rid of it.

As said, let's try a month with demasting nerfed to nothingness

 

a sailing game with no demasting is retarded man. As admin said. Brits were rewarded for firing at masts if im not mistaken. I don't want to put words in his mouth 

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Jon Snow lets go said:

Try to read everything the next time man

I did.  In case you want me to answer to that one as well..

Role for chains should not be that small.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
13 minutes ago, Licinio Chiavari said:

Conclusion: better get rid of it.

Explain to me how, how it can be done in gameplay terms, a ship crew can interfere with another ship's rigging so to make it open for boarding, as it was done in reality ?

( game has limitations and we cannot simulate reality such as throwing hooks to entangle your lines, your getting our yards entangled into each other )

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


×
×
  • Create New...