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Hostility changes - fun for everyone, including small clans.


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Just now, Cmdr RideZ said:

That removes farms or simply makes VMs to be expensive?

I don't recommend that you make it possible for people to earn marks by doing nothing.  Players will probably wait marks and they don't fight at all.  Also a risk that big ships get so expensive that none dares to use.

Isn't that what's happening now? Big nations can sit back and watch the VMs roll in like nothing. This gives clans incentives to take ports for immediate reward. Not having to wait 3 months for your nation to get on the top 3.

Also what I like about this is since there's a limit on how many VMs you can make per port, this promotes each clan taking 1-2 ports max instead of 1 clan taking control of an entire coast.

Edited by Slim Jimmerson
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Captains This month we plan to deploy final hostility changes based on the testing and learnings over the last 18 months.  Unfortunately current leader takes all approach is not working due to

Sold

Every post that does not go into my direction was filed to FBI in form of memos. Comey personally overseen this. But its not possible anymore

Just now, Slim Jimmerson said:

Isn't that what's happening now? Big nations can sit back and watch the VMs roll in like nothing. This gives clans incentives to take ports for immediate reward. Not having to wait 3 months for your nation to get on the top 3.

It is very important that small nations can participate in RvR as well.  Devs are correct in this for sure.

Giving marks for players that do nothing?  This is what is failing here.

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25 minutes ago, admin said:

last time marks were awarded daily (there were called conquest marks) or previously for the battle itself. which overinflated them and allowed unlimited supply

For the large 2 nations (current leaders) it does not matter. But it matters a lot for small nations and clans and makes a huge difference.. 

  • Old system
    • Poland for example; a clan led by  @Bart Smith want to capture 2 ports but does not see the benefits because if they capture 2 ports they still get NOTHING, because they cant get to top 3 due to their numbers
  • New system
    • Poland can capture and hold 2 small ports giving them 2 Victory marks to each successful PB participant (lord protector) per week.

That addresses the leaderboard system - a chance of gain even at the lowest tiers, which is nice. But it doesn't address trading/farming.

For example, think of how many marks you can unlock from trading instead of actual fighting. Guess which one of these people will choose.

- I can either fight properly, win some lose some, with 10-15 guys in expensive RvR ships, and we all get a few marks each at the end of the week.

- Or I can send 25 guys in small junk ships who have never been in a PB before to an empty arranged (and guaranteed win) PB to set them up for a marks reward, and 25 more guys to another arranged PB for free marks rewards, again and again. My enemy does the same, and only trading for different ports since being the lord protector of more than one port doesn't matter.

If you reckon that's all fine and dandy, well, then I wish you good luck and I will bring out the popcorn instead.

Edited by Guest
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Just now, Slim Jimmerson said:

What do you mean. You have to participate in a successful port battle to get lord protector status.

You were playing the last time we had similar system?

Clans divided the map? None was fighting.  Important thing is that players have to still play the game to earn more.

In military, you get promoted.  Do you get a new promotion after that by just doing absolutely nothing at all?  You have to earn your next VM.  A port could be used as a platform to earn more.  This way devs create content, things for players to do.

I would recommend PvP content but PvE content is 1000 times better than nothing at all.

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5 minutes ago, Slim Jimmerson said:

What do you mean. You have to participate in a successful port battle to get lord protector status.

The same patch was there before, there were farms, ok?

If you were not playing that time I can understand your reasoning.  If you were..  We tested it and it did not really work, right?  Why to make so similar system?  Time to learn from things that did not work and important to not test it again.

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Just now, Cmdr RideZ said:

You were playing the last time we had similar system?

Clans divided the map? None was fighting.  Important thing is that players have to still play the game to earn more.

In military, you get promoted.  Do you get a new promotion after that by just doing absolutely nothing at all?  You have to earn your next VM.  A port could be used as a platform to earn more.  This way devs create content, things for players to do.

I would recommend PvP content but PvE content is 1000 times better than nothing at all.

We'll see. I think the seas are too salty for such friendly terms.

If not I'll make sure to get on global chat more than regularly this week.

Edited by Slim Jimmerson
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6 minutes ago, Slim Jimmerson said:

We'll see. I think the seas are too salty for such friendly terms.

Well, it's not dependent on a server-wide arrangement, just coalition ones.

E.g. coalition A starts trading/farming ports, coalition B stops bothering with conquest because it's impossible to catch up to the port trading gains and/or starts trading ports themselves.

End result is that people stop bothering and just have a fight every now and then just for kicks when bored.

Edited by Guest
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Ok.. am I reading it right....

If I am lord protector of 10 ports at the end of the week I may get 2-3 vm's if i participated in one successful pb for the week?

Or

Regardless that I am lord protector of 10 ports, I only gained 1 this week because I only participated in one successful PB?

Hope its the latter...

 

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2 hours ago, admin said:

dont get the trolling part. 
hostility is granted for ships sank and if you sink cutters you get less hostility 

nice thought ,but than you will never see a cutter battles in your entire life if it is a serious  hostility battle 

people are not dumb (well... most of them)

so in that case you can assume it is trolling battle>>> to loor defenders in battle (what is a tactic)

ot:  fun for small nation here a example why it is not !

misses the balance completely...

D54BDC7C0D9808B133B7CB15063DF75DECADFCB3

 

 

Edited by Thonys
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55 minutes ago, rediii said:

Join the mission and fight. Hostilitymissions are open to join as long they are still running

Right now i am testing tutorials: one thing at the time, plz: i have only few hours a week to play due my RL. I like to partecipate in nice alltogether fight, but i have to choose which stuff i can make in a certain day. I can stay on the forum even i am working, but i can play PC only when i am home. :)

Edited by blubasso
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Examples...

When lord protector clan is changed, all forts are remove.  If you do a friendly change to another clan, all forts will be removed.

You as a lord protector can organize your clan to build forts.  This means that you have to transport goods from other ports.

Once finished Lord protector gets X amount of victory marks to share or every player participating gets their share of victory points.  Points used later to buy VMs.

If you have not build your forts, you wont have those in port battles.

...

The port you own has daily missions.  One example could be that you have to escort 2x Indiamans from your port to capital.  Other players in OW can see that those are VM mark mission ships.  Other players can stop your indiamans, earn something, PvP maybe.

...

etc. duties a lord protector has to earn marks for his clan.

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1 minute ago, Rickard said:

this is off topic but how the progress on the new boarding system going? any updates on that?

you mean, boarding in hostility mission ?,

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4 minutes ago, Wraith said:

Getting back to the topic of hostility, it seems to me that the proposed mechanic is far too unbalanced in favor of the defender. Instead, I'd propose that hostility is not raised by "missions" but by presence. I'd suggest that hostility accrues for a player in the region by the BR of the ship they are sailing and the number of minutes they are in the attacker circle zone of the port they want, a blockade if you will.

This one sounds good.  Definitely worth testing.

(Has to be done so that small clans can survive)

Edited by Cmdr RideZ
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The issue I have with this change is the port battle timer. With only about three hours to grind hostility it would be very difficult to grind enough hostility in smaller ships to flip a port. Extend the time frame of ports then I can see this as a reasonable solution @admin. Otherwise I feel there is a need for a new system.

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6 minutes ago, Davos Seasworth said:

The issue I have with this change is the port battle timer. With only about three hours to grind hostility it would be very difficult to grind enough hostility in smaller ships to flip a port. Extend the time frame of ports then I can see this as a reasonable solution @admin. Otherwise I feel there is a need for a new system.

50%  (or less?) of hostility can be created outside of the window? The rest has to be during the window?

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40 minutes ago, Banished Privateer said:

- The vast majority of shallow ports are grinded by deep water ships. The Bahamas are flooded by deep water ships docking in George's Town, Arthur's Town and other shallow ports "allowing" deep water ships or they just come from Cuba/Inagua/Florida etc. What's the point of shallows, Bahamas if it's all controlled and steered by deep water fleets... It's not just hostility, players come screening in 1st rates shallow ports... Which is silly.

 

40 minutes ago, Banished Privateer said:

New system defender has advantage: 10 vs 10 bots + 10 players

 

Agreed. Get the bots out of hostility grind and get the deep water ships out of the damn shallows!

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Remove the PvP and Victory marks from the game then maybe we might reduce the amount of players cheating the current systems available to them!!!! Yet again with the current system players seem fit to use their alt accounts to farm these current marks, when you start segregating the community into groups and in this case marks players will always find the easiest means to get them, by removing the marks system for PvP and Victory then we wont have the current problem of Alt Farming and port swapping as we see already to gain them to buy the exclusive mods and garbage we have in admiralty atm, just convert everything back to combat marks then every player has the same opportunity to gain the marks to get the same items from admiralty and there will be no means of exploiting to gain advantage over the system!!!!

Why should PvP and RvR players get more rewards? their doing the nation duty yet some are still exploiting the same system to gain the greater rewards and bypassing the previous systems to get their ships etc!!! Removing the PvP and VM it will eliminate exploiting as everyone is on the same playing field with no real advantage over the rest of the population, If the only advantages we had in game were economic advantages then controlling ports as i've suggesting before like % Iron extractions, % Teak and so on from capitals and territory then it would make RvR more of a feature that nations want resources and control over those resources it would make it harder for exploiting as its only benefiting players that are involved in the actual OW side of things which is what this game should be about!!!!

I seen a system in Heroes and Generals about capitals and map restarts that involved map control and underdog bonuses for nations that had lesser populations maybe that could be a thing looked into?

Edited by Ronald Speirs
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Agree with Banished and Wraith.

Port battles are great because it guarantees PvP action. Hostility is boring because most of the time there is nothing happening.

Somehow the hostility area needs to be turned into a PvP hotspot with lots of actions at least for important ports. 

This new system promote camping outside of the hostility mission and ganking the 10 guys when they come out, not nice fights. Also you basically have to take 1st rates all the time.

 

I prefer a small area infront of the port where you have to sit to raise hostility. Its like going into enemy reinforcement zone and waiting for the enemy to gather up for a fight.

People would come out and there would be nice fights.

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Just now, Amihai said:

One simple feature which can change server pvp life:

Port owner *can* introduce restriction for trade only for friendly clans.
In a week each RvR clan will have the friends screening fleet.

no....  to open to grief as we see in US already

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3 hours ago, admin said:

 

Lets discuss searching for potential loopholes and unforeseen problems. 


 

I like the idea that small clans can be more active.. But I have a concern - if 1 player meets 1 ship, does this create as much hostility as 10 players versus 10 ais? - Because basically what I'm seeing is 12 guys flipping 3 ports (4 for each) and only show up for one of them = a lot of empty PBs..

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1 hour ago, Banished Privateer said:

Before changes:

Attacker now has advantage: 25vs10 bots + 15 players

New system defender has advantage: 10 vs 10 bots + 10 players

Still imbalanced. Other notes:

- Doesn't matter how many players can join hostility, the defender can wait with 25 players outside the battle instance and "gank" hostility fleet 25v10.

- The vast majority of shallow ports are grinded by deep water ships. The Bahamas are flooded by deep water ships docking in George's Town, Arthur's Town and other shallow ports "allowing" deep water ships or they just come from Cuba/Inagua/Florida etc. What's the point of shallows, Bahamas if it's all controlled and steered by deep water fleets... It's not just hostility, players come screening in 1st rates shallow ports... Which is silly.

 

Old idea rejected by admin and said to never bring back: Port blockade. It's time to stop with bots, hostility missions... 

A visual area from port docks provides best hostility gain. Hostile fleet stops in near the port for steady hostility gain. The more BR, the better and faster gain. The closer to port, the faster gain. PvP battles/kills provide good hostility. If the defender does not show up, PB is set anyway, because hostile fleet presence/blockade generates hostility. 

Hostility should be gained by being present in the county, but the further you are from the port, the less efficient gain is. 

BR Hostility System - if the port has 1250BR, you don't need a massive fleet to flip it. If the port is 12000BR, it should require much bigger fleets and more efforts. Currently, hostility is based just on doing 4 missions for each port... Hostility gain should be based on BR system. 

Defenders presence around the county/port should lower the hostility, but they cannot just sit on docks, must be an x distance from the port (maybe like outer joining circle for PB of the attacker, so defenders cannot camp forts and towers). Hostility drop by defenders presence would be less efficient than the attacker because it is only supposed to buy them some time to find the hostile fleet. In case of no defenders, attacker flips a port nice and smoothly.

Differences with the current system?

-No tedious PvE bot grind

-valid BR based system, not just 4 missions, no one can do 4 at the same time with 4 players only etc.

-Much higher chance for PvP than playing mouse and cat currently, looking for missions, the enemy always tries to take missions as far as possible etc... You want hostility - you must be near the port.

-Fleet size and BR matters. 

The only issue I see would be kiting fleets trying to raise hostility. Should fleets in battle generate hostility? Neither answer would be good, as it can be kited or exploited... That's the biggest issue of this idea, but surely brainstorm can find a solution.

 

 

Best proposal so far. Lets end this PvE grind on PvP server.

Players have carebear reinforcements zone for PvE. 

Btw. No reinforcement zones for Rear Ardmirals please!

 

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