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Exciting OR RNG crafting is back, and I have a problem with it.


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1 minute ago, King of Crowns said:

that means we just need to vend 99 ships and keep one.

 

1 in 100 odds doens't mean you will get it at 99.  Either way if you want to build that many ships just to get one one super rare ship than more power to you.  I'm sure folks will buy up a few of those other 99 ships.

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5 hours ago, maturin said:

Y'all doth protest too much.

 

Ships are living things. You can't conceive a child without some mutations in the genes.

 

For instance, Endymion was the only ship of her class to be so fast.

But do not forget that the sisterships of the Endymion performed similarly to eachother and were of a slightly different design + built on the cheap using softwoods (fir). That is the main reason why the sisterships were decommissioned early while the Endymion continued in service for roughly 40 years after the others were broken up.

The performance issues were clearly down to design and material choice; so I'd say the Endymion is an excellent example of why you should be able to influence your design more and not less... But it is an interesting discussion.

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11 hours ago, jodgi said:

We've been through this already and know what will happen: Power gamers will click hard for the special stuff (money doesn't matter). When we were active and had a resource train operational three crafters clicked, sold, clicked sold ad nauseam until all Rakers had optimal ships. Then we clicked to have spares. We were always in top golden ships.

I know the intention, but this will lead to more frustration among the power clickers and "normal" players. The former will tire and the latter will feel left out. Lower the drop rate and frustration will only increase in both camps.

You can't curb power gamer monopoly when you keep adding rare things. 

OW is by design a power gamer's sandbox, sometimes we pretend to care for the little man, but it's a sham.

"Randomly available to all" is almost Orwellian.

TBH all in the same identical ships will be more Orwellian

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I find the change good should the percentages of getting rare ship refits be too low after many builts so that someone that makes let's say 10 ships of the same class, receives the 10th as a super rare ship. I understand the logic of it and i like it but please.. keep the percentage of getting them low.

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27 minutes ago, rediii said:

Its not like you allways get these bonuses.

We crafted maybe 8 or so Bellonas yesterday. 2 Agile 1 very Agile that was it. Nothing with more than 3 permaslots.

 

As long as these realy good ships are realy rare and you dont need to craft 3 to get 1 imba ojt of it im ok with it TBH.

Maybe bonuses itself have to be reduced a bit though. Pirate refit?

I see where you're coming from, but won't the rarity of the upgrades have the opposite effect of what's intended?  Like you said yourself.. you crafted 8 Bellonas - no casual player will be able to do that.

What if you craft 20? Eventually you''ll get that "Very fast" T/T 5-5 Bellona.

This means that now you, as a "powerplayer", have the best ship - and you can now sell the remaining 19 to Casuals who have no hope of getting the same vessel as you. 

Please correct me if I'm wrong in my asumptions. I'm not saying this is something that you will do - but I think it's very likely that this is what is going to happen with other players.

Edited by NicklasK
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19 minutes ago, victor said:

TBH all in the same identical ships will be more Orwellian

I guess you could say it would... But we need to go deeper. Animal farm points at the dissonance between the stated intention of "everyone is equal" and the reality of "some animals are more equal than others". Who are "more equal" than others? Who benefits from keeping this disconnect between intention and reality, both in Animal farm and NA-OW?

Also: double-speak and new-speak.

I grade you "C" on your literature test.

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1 minute ago, rediii said:

Not I crafted these bellonas. If you'd know me you would know I sail every ship possible as long as it is half decent (woods) and cheap/low effort to get. These Bellonas were build by different players and 1 of them build some more because he had ressources stocked and got some from our cwh.

We instantly used these ships by the way aswell and I see now good ships in the shop in gustavia to buy for new players aswell. It is a nice byproduct.

Like @Liq I also think that you should sail 95% of the time cheap ships with okayish upgrades. Realy good ships will probably only be used in portbattles and even if not you overestimate these rare ships.

 

I specifically stated :"I'm not saying this is something that you will do ". I quoted your statement to show that a powerplayer with enough materials will be able to do that.

you have to see beyond what you, as an honest player, would do.

We know players will abuse in-game mechanics, we know people farm PvP Marks, we know there has been abuse of trade-missions. I'm sure that my example is going to happen eventually. Is it something we should try to prevent? Or just live with the fact that "Powerplayers" and "Exploiters" will have the best; thus increasing the gap between the player groups?

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1 minute ago, rediii said:

You also have too keep in mind that these ships have to be crafted with the correct woods aswell.

I dont say clans wont do it but if they do it its expensive.

I agree though that bonuses should be nerfed a bit. Carta for example and pirate refit

I like the idea of reducing the bonuses to near insignificant levels - that would make it a gift rather than a necessity. I can get behind that 100% :)

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One thing we should not forget. There will again be luckers who will craft optimal ships without much effort and others who struggle and will not get any bonus or completely useless for their cases. For example, the long-awaited bonus then on a merchant ship.
 
Statistics are one, individual cases are something else. Random is always unfair and will simply cause frustration for many players. For me, a clear step back in this game.
 
In the search for Skillbooks I can live with it, because this can be done without much effort. But here has it another dimension, because the effort is much bigger and, in first of all, irrational. To produce so many ships just to break up them again.
 
... also, you never know with which ship you should now be satisfied and provide it with expensive upgrades.
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Customization is great, diversity is great, different "levels" of ships are great.

But as all the others already said: the current "new" system brings more frustration than fun. It takes me about 4 weeks to get everything needed for a Santi and when I click craft, it tells me, that I crafted a shabby one? No. That is a reason to quit playing again.

I understand Admins idea of giving crafters a gift. But it isn't for most crafters. Colourful nameplates are nice, showing that there is something special. OK.

I guess for most crafters the better way would have been the predictable one:

Select more details before crafting (wood, trim, 1-5 slots, one integrated bonus, each at cost of mats or gold), have the ships refittable, upgradeable for more slots, gifting just small randomly generated boni (not as much as now) to the basic ship stats, e.g. 0.01-0.1kn top speed or 0.05-0.1 turn rate, 5-100 HP on sides or bow/stern,... but not, like it just is, things that render the ships useless or overpowered.

Regarding history: How often were the certain ships scrapped and rebuilt from scratch? How often where they refitted, replanked, modified, ...?

 

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12 hours ago, jodgi said:

I guess you could say it would... But we need to go deeper. Animal farm points at the dissonance between the stated intention of "everyone is equal" and the reality of "some animals are more equal than others". Who are "more equal" than others? Who benefits from keeping this disconnect between intention and reality, both in Animal farm and NA-OW?

Also: double-speak and new-speak.

I grade you "C" on your literature test.

Nah ... that's more philosophy than literature.

Equality is impossible and unnatural, equality is the red cloack that powers shakes to induce people to fight each other. Divide et impera.

 

Edited by victor
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5 hours ago, Anne Wildcat said:

Sigh, the gap between the casual player and the hardcore player just keeps getting bigger and bigger and bigger. 

Casual here.

I crafted plenty of great ships back in the old RNG system when grinding XP.

Now I'll just have the ability to sell those to the hardcore players, if I don't want to use them myself.

Unlike RNG loot, hardcore players can't craft ships any faster than casuals can. (Labor Contracts aside.)

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Seriously are the devs going back to RNG well they may aswell sell the game if they are that dumb to go back to stupid RNG crafting, seriously how can they not understand a proper economic system to build in game, the eco system is where the game falls down and doesnt work properly to make the rest of the OW work together and mean something, you have already showed your lack of understanding by making PvP marks that bypass the crafting system in getting ships straight away and avoid any crafting mechanic, far out after what over 3 years i thought u would have got the hint by now that the way you do things is what is exactly what is keeping this game from going further!!!!!!!!

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Played the game today for the first time (with my ALT to test the tutorials) since the server merge because I like the recent changes/effort from the development team.

RNG in crafting ships puts me off it was almost universally detested before, I genuinely hate it with a passion.

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On 02.02.2018 at 4:15 PM, blademage said:

Customization is great, diversity is great, different "levels" of ships are great.

But as all the others already said: the current "new" system brings more frustration than fun. It takes me about 4 weeks to get everything needed for a Santi and when I click craft, it tells me, that I crafted a shabby one?

crafted ships are always great (they can never be shabby)
but sometimes your shipyard has providence or satori or whatever inspiration and make a better ship

It happened in history right and left

French Hebe Copy - Leda class had 47 ships built on the same blueprint and only trinomalee and shannon are remembered (the rest were fine standard ships too)
French Pomone Copy - or Endymion class had 5 ships built on the same blueprint but only Endymion was awesome (the rest were good standard ships)

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6 minutes ago, admin said:

crafted ships are always great (they can never be shabby)
but sometimes your shipyard has providence or satori or whatever inspiration and make a better ship

It happened in history right and left

French Hebe Copy - Leda class had 47 ships built on the same blueprint and only trinomalee and shannon are remembered (the rest were fine standard ships too)
French Pomone Copy - or Endymion class had 5 ships built on the same blueprint but only Endymion was awesome (the rest were good standard ships)

i like crafting but the crafting system is bad. it takes far too long to craft something. its a click festival. it has to be revised in any case

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3 minutes ago, Christoph said:

i like crafting but the crafting system is bad. it takes far too long to craft something. its a click festival. it has to be revised in any case

Yep 

If you got all ressources ready for materials there should just be a button "prepare to craft" which automatically crafts all the ressources into materials needed.. too much of a time waste in clicking, checking and adjusting craft bars

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5 minutes ago, Christoph said:

i like crafting but the crafting system is bad. it takes far too long to craft something. its a click festival. it has to be revised in any case

what do you mean to long to craft something? How long? (i have heard it can take almost a month to build a top ship in eve or longer)

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