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JonnyH13's Mod Alpha 2 (Defunct!)


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Two more tries, and I take back what I said about the mod being unplayable - it just requires a big change in mindset. The first was very successful except that I was dumb, didn't chase down the skirmishers, and  didn't cover the VP. The second was also successful, but quite bloody - probably more casualties than a typical Legendary battle.

Skirmishers are very strong. I'm liking how the melee cavalry works more and more - they are very powerful, but fragile. It takes longer for a unit to be shaken or break through fire, though that may be due to the poor accuracy and effectiveness of the 1842s and is probably intended. Defending river lines is going to be more important, I think, because it stops charges. My three top units were the two 6 pounder batteries and the cavalry. Merritt's 6 pounders racked up 1327 kills, and fought most of the battle with 3 guns. I'll continue with the series and see where it leads.

 

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Go here to get the latest release.   Here is the Alpha 2 Version (Outdated) of the Mod: resources.assets    

Right now I aim for a more realistic style of game as well as making it more challenging for the player in the right way.  Players should be using more tactics and strategy rather than simply perfect

Updated to Alpha 2.  

Posted Images

Notes from 1st Bull Run:

  • I'm upgrading the melee cavalry from "very strong" to "terrifying". My 750-man one-star cavalry unit scored 3,881 kills for 369 losses. The brigade commander went from Lt. Colonel to Major General in one battle. As long as you only charge units that are routing or about to break, your losses are minimal and the charge becomes murderous. Three two-star melee cavalry units with the charge damage bonus are going to be able to destroy any brigade in a matter of seconds.
  • Ammunition is probably a little too generous. None of my units ran out of ammo, and none ever came close - most of the wagons were above 50% as well.
  • 1st Bull Run makes it easy to capture units, but this battle was excessive - I captured over 7,000 enemy troops, mostly by getting them stuck on a river, shooting them up, and then charging.
  • my skirmisher cavalry felt right - they would mount up, gallop across the battlefield, then dismount and pour fire into someone's flank. They were a zero-star unit and scored 1,359 kills for 211 losses.
  • The AI was mostly unable to use melee cavalry effectively in this battle. They did do some damage darting in to fire at my infantry from behind their own brigades, but I don't think a single one ever charged. I suspect it'll get better as they get stronger and the battles get bigger - one of those 1,050 man units behind the lines would be a death sentence for any artillery. My infantry fire against their cavalry seemed much less effective than their infantry firing at my cavalry.
  • Overall it felt like both Newport News and 1st Bull Run were significantly easier than previous Legendary battles. I think what's happening is that enemy units are exposed to fire longer due to the changes, and suffer more casualties before routing. This problem may get worse as the AI deploys units with higher Morale. Between captures and kills, AI lost 24,000 of 26,000 infantry, which is a pretty high percentage and points to units taking more damage before routing.
  • Units hanging around in a bad situation is also beneficial to artillery, particularly at short range.

 

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Part of the aim of this mod is to show the transition from shock to firepower.  Muskets are too inefficient and lack range, hence the effectiveness of charges. Also since I cannot add individual wounded or captured troops other than brigade scale, assume kills are a mix of everything. 

I will probably tone down cavalry melee a bit in the next update. 

Ammunition should definitely last at least 2 whole hours of continuous fighting before it becomes depleted. This does not take into account supply wagons. You might run out of ammo in later battles.

The troops getting stuck at the river is something I cannot fix. It only happens notably at bull run though and Newport News   

Battles may seem easier in the beginning but do not let hubris get to you. later in the war you will start to notice changes in the enemy weapons that will force you to adapt.  

Another focus of the mod (mainly for the CSA) is to have the player win against superior technology with superior doctrine like the Prussians at the Franco-Prussian war of 1871.  The French had the superior rifle (the Union has the Spencer)  but they were defeated by the Prussians more effective use of their artillery and smaller more maneuverable units.  The French focused on shock rather than fire and did not use their weapons effectively.  Here in UGCW he Union AI  might still be focused on shock and not use their troops effectively.  It is up to the CSA player to defeat this.  

EDIT:  No I did not edit the weapon capture rates.  Ill probably lower the Cavalry Damage somewhat.  I might have miscalculated the damage per man ratio.  

The AI might also be a bit too timid to charge as well so there might be a chance that you will be forced into a firefight against troops with superior weapons.

I am of the opinion that any weapon, no matter how old or inefficient, can be effective in the right situation.  It is up to the commander to find that situation or make it happen.  It matters not if you have machine guns but if you are caught off guard by charging horsemen or are ambushed in a narrow valley by buck and ball muskets, you will suffer badly.  

EDIT EDIT: With some testing the AI seems more confident in the late war.  I may be wrong though. 

More Edits!  (I am watching the Bull Run video as I am editing).  Any brigade larger than 1800 or so (more like 1650 to be more precise but you can always detach skirmishers from 1800 down to 1600ish) will suffer efficiency penalties and not do its maximum damage.  In fact without high efficiency and command as well a brigade will be seriously handicapped.  Also if routing off the map were a thing in UGCW I am sure the casualties would have been lower somewhat.  

Final EDIT:  the weapon names have not been changed yet but they are different.  Try to understand the guns via their visual rather than their names.  The 1853 Enfields are actually the Lorenz and the 1855 Springfield is the 1853 Enfield.  

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In your comment on Aetius' Camp post Potomac Fort video you mentioned that the weapon accuracy values displayed in the UI were misleading. Is there any chance you have a document which lists the accuracy values used by your mod that you could post as a readme? If that information isn't easily available, adding some details in your original post about how the accuracy ranges work would be very helpful. If you only have the UI stats to go on there doesn't appear to be much reason to upgrade to the later rifles.

Creating a document of the values used in the base game would also be very useful as it may reveal that certain weapons are actually more useful than they appear. Was all of this information in the resources.assets file?

Your mod encouraged me to try and use far more cavalry than I have in the past and I'm looking forward to future updates.

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Just to clarify, the accuracy listed in the shop and UI is the minimum damage multiplier (random low) times 10 so an accuracy of 50 means .5 random low. What is not listed in game is the maximum damage multiplier (random high). 

 

Also Aetius disregard the edit that was here if you saw it. 

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@Aetius

Have you the vanilla spreadsheets for weapons?

 I was planning to add them to my own excel (with your permission  & you would be credited), but it would cut me a lot of work.

Thanks in advance.

* Edit:

Also some explanation about the spreadsheet's Column Headers would be much appreciated.

Edited by LAntorcha
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I’m too lazy to make an electronic spreadsheet myself (I prefer paper) but I can try to teach how to read the Hex code. I’m busy today but I’ll be available for some time tomorrow and definitely on Friday. 

Edit:  @Aetius I’ll comment on your videos when I get home from work. Been busy the entire week. 

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Doc below contains a list of all weapons with their hex values for each stat for the vanilla game. I was using some of the examples in older modding guides on the forum to determine which values to pull. I made the assumption that the accuracy max values immediately followed the accuracy min values. This was based on some old screenshots in the modding tutorials, the consistency of values, and that those values were changed by the mod. So I could be completely wrong.

My next step was going to be comparing against the modded values to see what patterns were visible and to start trying to convert the hex into readable decimal values. Do you know the formula for converting the accuracy hex values into the decimal that the game displays multiplied by 10? If that is known and I have the right value for the accuracy max then it wouldn't take long to get a damage range spreadsheet setup at least. 

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1DGEviwckiN_zrMz7cN2swtkIb0REe24GQLaz5Vu2qss/edit?usp=sharing

Note I didn't include most of the test weapons that are in the assets file. Most of them had values fairly inconsistent with the rest of the weapons. Exception is rifle_US_1855_58_RF_TEST since it wasn't listed with the rest of the test weapons.

Edited by pandakraut
formatting
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As you can see I can make a Table finding names and addresses, and then change the Value cell. Also I can add more weapon addresses or make a Template chart if the data stays at the same offset distance from the Weapon Name.

With this Template you search for a given name (i.e Napoleon) then apply the Offset to all addresses, and you get the Modified Napoleon Addresses Cells, and is just a matter of loading the Table and changing values, then Save.

You can Edit the Data to be able to see it as Decimals (which makes more sense) or Hex values, even text.

But I need to know the structure of the data to not randomly add the addresses to the table.

Ultimate_Modding_I.thumb.jpg.e912a34d075f3c9c8d833cf01cd77a48.jpg

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Just copied in-game data to a spreadsheet. Lacks the "grey bar" stats.

Feel free to use/add.

 

Ultimate_General_Civil_War_Weapon_Charts.xlsm

The Price$ Column is mistaken. I got the data from my Career Savegame. It comes with a reduction of price because of the Player Economy traits.

Edited by LAntorcha
Mistake in Price due to Economy Trait
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I realized I could just copy the accuracy max hex values over the accuracy min values and have the game translate for me. Spreadsheet has been updated with the vanilla decimal accuracy values and damage high/low values. Still needs to get cleaned up and compiled with the rest of in game values though at that point should probably move to a dedicated forum thread.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1DGEviwckiN_zrMz7cN2swtkIb0REe24GQLaz5Vu2qss/edit?usp=sharing

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"carbine_1862Richmont58"... (comes like that in the resources.assets file)

"RichmonT"...

OMG, coders...

... Take in account those pesky details when searching for names.

 

Theres is a mistake in your spreadsheet.

"carbine_SawedOff52" Icon should be "59 04". Tested.

"07 43" is the Range.

(If we screw with things like this all archive becomes crap and game won't Load, so please Double Check.)

 

One crazy idea:

  • You take carbine_SawedOff52 entries, replace them with gun_6pdr_Gun entries... some fudging... Voilà... you get Horse Artillery.

5aaabc1c9ea08_HorseArty.thumb.jpg.0f1eab48b401ae27bf9df97637e2fa3b.jpg

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Good catch and updated. The downsides of manual data entry on not enough sleep. If you have a way to pull the values automatically with your program that would be far more reliable.

Related to the horse artillery idea, have you tried a live test with them? The Artillerist's guide has a lot of anecdotal data about which guns are more effective with different shot types at various distances. Would be interesting to see what happens when you start cobbling a new type together. If there are additional hidden variables involved that would complicate things. JonnyH13 mentioned there was a splash damage value in another post.

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I'm working in a way to get the decimal values in semi-auto (the program will help, but expect manual work ahead). Not very promising, as the data is not in the exact same positions, but  i'll try.

Just changed the Icon and name as an experiment, they still wear sawed-offs, and fight akin to sawed-offs (close range).

At the moment it is very difficult attempting to portray a Horse Arty, cause the unit should move like Cavalry, but shoot like arty. This would led to a completely different kind of unit, and they have plenty of code still unknown for us. Take in account, for example, that Cavalry unit minimum is 100 men but you want a range of 6pdr guns between 1-24. Also the shoot type should be changed, and a couple of things more, leading us to swampy zones of encrypted coding.

For illustrative purposes... Dev's basically have a Database to support their game mechanics, which they merge on game Load, which we can't access for learning, and we are trying to change it letter by letter, byte by byte. Just because of the typos the task is overwhelming. That's the reason i ask for an Editing Tool.

 

Edit: It would be easier to get those 6Pdrs Icon and change'em for a Horsed Arty 6Pdr Icon, make them look like Cavalry on map and move at Cavalry speed but react like arty. As we can't add weapons, we ought to substitute one of the guns.

Edited by LAntorcha
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Think you could mod the effects of perks? The fact that Marksman and Firing training cancel each other out is quite bothersome to me as someone who likes snipers. Perhaps remove the penalty for each or if not that then reducing it by half?

Edit: Also, I'd be interested in seeing if the number of brigades per division could be increased. seems possible given the scenarios but I don't know if it would cause problems or not.

Edited by Friedrich
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On ‎3‎/‎15‎/‎2018 at 2:39 PM, LAntorcha said:

"carbine_1862Richmont58"... (comes like that in the resources.assets file)

"RichmonT"...

OMG, coders...

... Take in account those pesky details when searching for names.

 

Theres is a mistake in your spreadsheet.

"carbine_SawedOff52" Icon should be "59 04". Tested.

"07 43" is the Range.

(If we screw with things like this all archive becomes crap and game won't Load, so please Double Check.)

 

One crazy idea:

  • You take carbine_SawedOff52 entries, replace them with gun_6pdr_Gun entries... some fudging... Voilà... you get Horse Artillery.

5aaabc1c9ea08_HorseArty.thumb.jpg.0f1eab48b401ae27bf9df97637e2fa3b.jpg

You should probably look at lowering those numbers to around 4 - 6 ... as neither army in any theater had more than 300 cannon.  :)   300 may actually be the number of artillerists, but that's not the way the artillery units count numbers.

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Some feedback after playing through 2nd Manassas as CSA on legendary(vanilla weapon names used)

Tredegars feel very weak. They are very poor at dealing with infantry at any range in comparison to the rest of the artillery options and do not feel particularly effective at counter battery fire either. The 10pdr Parrot feels far more effective at both tasks despite the smaller range and at half the price. 

12pdr howitzers are great at short and medium range. They feel so effective I haven't felt any need to move to Napoleons or 3in. 24pdrs are still a significant upgrade though.

After a bit of an adjustment infantry weapons feel fine. The progression is a little odd in that after getting 1853 enfields nothing feels like an upgrade until 1861s or later. Unless it's possible to completely revamp the enemy weapon scaling not much to be done though. This may work out better on easier difficulties where you don't capture upgrades quite so quickly.

Snipers are still very good, maybe slightly weaker than in vanilla outside of the 750 range on the scoped whitworths. Command units do feel overly resistant to sniper fire if they are in any kind of cover though. Maybe that's a positive.

The mod changes seem to have made condition less of a concern. Snipers can fire all battle long if they aren't constantly running back and forth through bad terrain. Infantry units can run across half the map and still be able to exchange fire for an extended period of time without becoming exhausted.

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I have discovered how to edit perks of all units, fortifications, and max unit sizes (for player infantry only right now).  Expect some rebalancing of a bunch of things to come soon.  

One of the problems I have with weapons so far is that I have not yet found a way to edit their damage degradation graph which affects how damage drops off with range.  I have to adjust damage values based on that and it is not 100% balanced yet.  

The Tredgar and the Whitworth might be a little underpowered at the moment but they do best when massed together.  

Skirmishers can currently run everywhere and not be exhausted, this is something I cannot change yet hence their somewhat weaker weapons.  Normally the AI is supposed to charge them to get rid of them but I have yet to adjust the AI behavior.  Since I can edit perks now Ill rebalance the weapons a bit.

I currently plan on making condition effects much more impactful but it is taking some time to find out where it is in all the code.  

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The range falloff could definitely be part of the issue. In the vanilla game I would try to keep tredegars firing at medium(700-900 range). In the mod I've been trying to use them as highly accurate long range artillery suppression. If the tredegar inherently falls off at a certain point, combined with the low damage, that would explain some of the poor performance I've seen. As for massing them at 450 more per gun than 24pdrs it's hard to fit them in. I would normally only have max 2-3 units worth so I might not have the right play style for them. 

I wish the custom battles gave more freedom in army construction. It would make it much easier to test rather than having to play dozens of battles in a campaign to build up enough guns. If it would be useful for you to have more data on something let me know and I'll see what I can do.

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I need to find a way to have cavalry take more fire damage than what it is right now with the current rifle damage (it will be rebalanced along with perks later though).  

Also if you wish for more personal communication (as well as an UGG player) add me on steam.

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