Jump to content
Game-Labs Forum
blubasso

Broken trade or not?

Recommended Posts

Hi,

i am a newcomer so please take my question just as it is: a noob question...

I read often here in the forum that trading is broken and it takes very long time to make money. I saw in Youtube that this topic (make money) is not very popular, because users prefer to show how good (or bad) they are on PvP. Sometimes read that the Devs intentionally get loose trading stuffs because they want the users focusing on PvP. 

Is it true? If i’d like (in exemple) do the trading and/or crafting career, have i problems with that? For me, if it take real years, should be not a problem: i have patience but if the trading system is really broken, i ask myself: why? Why should do it and not PvP like all the others? 

If, instead, the trade system is just a matter of time, it will be ok for me.

So, someone (when he/she stops laughing at me ;) ) can answer, a serious answer? Please?

Edited by blubasso

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Economy in Naval Action is very poorly developed. One big issue is that we do not have an open market. You can't see what is listed in other ports at what price and what demand those ports have. You physically have to sail to ports and test your luck. I personally will never accept such economy as final. Much work must be done here, but you can try to use Traders tool in the Map window. That is all what we have so far. 

If you want to make money go build ships or start with ship materials. Selling and buying goods is a waste of time. In addition we do not have dedicated Trader Career. You get nothing from trading (special rewards, reputation etc..). You can go sink fleets and make 1000s more per hour compared to boring sail from port to port. @admin

Personally I think Developers ignored too many things and focused on PvP too much. I think they will get the best answer for you. You as a new player should tell them where they messed up. I played for a while and realized that NA is empty as it can be. Yes you can spend all day sailing looking for a fight and that is the end game. There is really nothing else besides beautiful landscapes and water just yet. Maybe upcoming Patch will add something , but I have mixed feelings. 

Edited by H2O
  • Like 5

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 minutes ago, H2O said:

Economy in Naval Action is very poorly developed. One big issue is that we do not have an open market. You can't see what is listed in other ports at what price and what demand those ports have. You physically have to sail to ports and test your luck. I personally will never accept such economy as final. Much work must be done here, but you can try to use Traders tool in the Map window. That is all what we have so far. 

If you want to make money go build ships or start with ship materials. Selling and buying goods is a waste of time. In addition we do not have dedicated Trader Career. You get nothing from trading goods (special rewards, reputation etc..). 

I agree that the economy is very poorly developed but having perfect knowledge of what prices are what where does not fit the age of sail game. Furthermore, if you want to make money *do not* build ships or ship materials.  The market is completely saturated and the vast majority of players in most nations who are losing ships are getting them crafted from within their clan ship lines and as a solo player you will never be able to compete.

If you want to make money trading then look for national trade goods in ports away from your nation's capital and sail them back to sell in your nation's capital. You can get a good idea (though it's not perfect because of that lack of "perfect" knowledge) by using the trade tool in the map menu.  Look for ports that produce (click on P) and then look at ports that consume (C) the goods in question and find a short trade route that gives you those with the highest margins.

You can easily make money this way but it isn't risk-free. High-rank players often find a much higher return on investment (of time) by doing missions and killing off large, open world fleets.  The rare drops you get from looting these open world ships will often far outstrip the income you'll get from trading, in addition to the money from sinking the ships.  So basically, the only people who are trading are the people that like to do that more than fighting, or who can't do first rate fleets.

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
19 minutes ago, Wraith said:

I agree that the economy is very poorly developed but having perfect knowledge of what prices are what where does not fit the age of sail game. Furthermore, if you want to make money *do not* build ships or ship materials.  The market is completely saturated and the vast majority of players in most nations who are losing ships are getting them crafted from within their clan ship lines and as a solo player you will never be able to compete.

If you want to make money trading then look for national trade goods in ports away from your nation's capital and sail them back to sell in your nation's capital. You can get a good idea (though it's not perfect because of that lack of "perfect" knowledge) by using the trade tool in the map menu.  Look for ports that produce (click on P) and then look at ports that consume (C) the goods in question and find a short trade route that gives you those with the highest margins.

You can easily make money this way but it isn't risk-free. High-rank players often find a much higher return on investment (of time) by doing missions and killing off large, open world fleets.  The rare drops you get from looting these open world ships will often far outstrip the income you'll get from trading, in addition to the money from sinking the ships.  So basically, the only people who are trading are the people that like to do that more than fighting, or who can't do first rate fleets.

That is why everyone ignoring Trading, locked themselves inside a clan and just go and fleet with a group of 6 1st rates. This is trading and econ of today. Not sure where Devs looking, but this is what they created. Fleet to make money. Market is for those who want to make money off new guys trying to get overpriced ships or mods. Yeah 300% over real production cost for a ship. That is not Econ that is a broken Econ. Clans sweep everything that is listed by solo guys leaving nothing for those same new fellas. This is a Clan based game and I do not think we even need market anymore at this point as everything is controlled by Alts and Clans. 

Here is a rough plan of how top dollar econ looks today

But Alts - Join Clan - Mass Produce/Buy Materials - Fleet - Pay Bills/Sell Overpriced Rare Mods - Repeat 

Another way is to sink your alts for Marks and sell them. Requires planning as Vets will report any unfamiliar names or activities to Devs even though they do it themselves.

Edited by H2O

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
53 minutes ago, blubasso said:

Is it true? If i’d like (in exemple) do the trading and/or crafting career, have i problems with that?

The question is what you expect. You can make reasonable gold by trading artificial goods from NPC to NPC, and you can craft your own ships. But the player market/economy is broken. 

People earn so much gold, there is no reason to use the market for profit. People can buy labour for marks and while there are no professions, there is no reason to buy labour/crafted goods from the market/players. People can exchange labour while there is no production capacity limit, there is not even demand for shipbuilders anymore (a single crafter is able to supply a whole nation).

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
19 minutes ago, Fargo said:

The question is what you expect. You can make reasonable gold by trading artificial goods from NPC to NPC, and you can craft your own ships. But the player market/economy is broken. 

People earn so much gold, there is no reason to use the market for profit. People can buy labour for marks and while there are no professions, there is no reason to buy labour/crafted goods from the market/players. People can exchange labour while there is no production capacity limit, there is not even demand for shipbuilders anymore (a single crafter is able to supply a whole nation).

Well, atm i am not aspecting anything, just ask questions about what can i do besides PvPing... I read a lot of complain about trading and i ask why and if all the complains are true or just some unsatisfied users... Anyway a trader could have an exciting life on the sea, because of pirates, hurricanes, bad business, scurvy on board, phantom ships that go out from strange fog, Geralt of Rivia that ask you a ship ride, Zeus that aim your ship as a target for his lightning, seasick, seasick-seasickvomiting, days without wind, days with too much wind...

 

Edited by blubasso

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, blubasso said:

Well, atm i am not aspecting anything, just ask questions about what can i do besides PvPing... I read a lot of complain about trading and i ask why and if all the complains are true or just some unsatisfied users... Anyway a trader could have an exciting life on the sea, because of pirates, hurricanes, bad business, scurvy on board, phantom ships that go out from strange fog, Geralt of Rivia that ask you a ship ride, Zeus that aim your ship as a target for his lightning, seasick, seasick-seasickvomiting, days without wind, days with too much wind...

 

Trading is just a way to get money to be able to buy new and better ships and modules. There is no endgame for traders in this game. There is a lot of boring afk sailing where your only way out is to have a second screen to watch a tv series. The game you describe is Windward oder some old trading simulation like Port Royale 3 (both on steam for <10 Euros).

And the others are right ... there are more efficient ways of getting money and trading in this game is very poorly implemented (fixed npc prices, limited player supply for most goods, fixed npc supply for trading goods and ship wood). You can craft, that is a little bit more interesting, but then the price system is very intransparent. You do not really know what is demanded and therefore do not know what to do.

Sorry for this demotivational post, but the economy in this game has been under developed for two years now.

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, blubasso said:

Hi,

i am a newcomer so please take my question just as it is: a noob question...

I read often here in the forum that trading is broken and it takes very long time to make money. I saw in Youtube that this topic (make money) is not very popular, because users prefer to show how good (or bad) they are on PvP. Sometimes read that the Devs intentionally get loose trading stuffs because they want the users focusing on PvP. 

Is it true? If i’d like (in exemple) do the trading and/or crafting career, have i problems with that? For me, if it take real years, should be not a problem: i have patience but if the trading system is really broken, i ask myself: why? Why should do it and not PvP like all the others? 

If, instead, the trade system is just a matter of time, it will be ok for me.

So, someone (when he/she stops laughing at me ;) ) can answer, a serious answer? Please?

Economy is broken. If anyone states that it's "hard" or difficult to make gold - then they haven't played the game for more than a year. Anyone needing gold? - Take one nations nationalgoods (mostly spanish goods since they can be obtained in any port originally a spanish colony) and sail it to your own nations capital - as long as it isn't La Habana then you will make 2-3 times the investment. And mostly the trip can be done entirely within the safezone of your own capital - so minimal to no risk. If you're not the "trading" type - do a fleet mission on your own - easy with a bit of practice - and you make about 500k in one go. Crafting is no longer viable - just buy the ship for PvP marks. Don't have any? - buy them from someone else. Only thing of real value ingame is two things - Firstly your time. Secondly your upgrades. Neither is well spent in NA.

But the game is addictive when you play in social groups - alone your interest runs off when you've grinded the max level.

And the others are right ... there are more efficient ways of getting money and trading in this game is very poorly implemented (fixed npc prices, limited player supply for most goods, fixed npc supply for trading goods and ship wood).

And the others are not right - the most efficient way to make gold is trading. I make 2 million in one go, for a 600k investment for 10 mins sail. Nothing else in the game rewards gold that fast. Problem is that gold isn't worth anything in the game.

Edited by Bearwall
  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 hours ago, blubasso said:

Hi,

i am a newcomer so please take my question just as it is: a noob question...

I read often here in the forum that trading is broken and it takes very long time to make money.

It takes money to make money.  When you get yourself a couple million and a 3 trader-brig fleet (requires having the fleeting perks) then the money will start rolling in fast if you can stand the hours of sailing traders back and forth.  Until then worry about learning the combat elements and start some buildings to manufacture repairs. 

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Trading is so easy, just u have to wait the travel... There is a lot of rentability. A product in a non-capital city which u sell in a capital city, with a Trader Brig (in shallow water) or a Indiaman. And i don't say more, i prefer Spain beeing the only who knows the secret of that rutes, like in history ;)

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
18 hours ago, Barbancourt (rownd) said:

It takes money to make money.  When you get yourself a couple million and a 3 trader-brig fleet (requires having the fleeting perks) then the money will start rolling in fast if you can stand the hours of sailing traders back and forth.  Until then worry about learning the combat elements and start some buildings to manufacture repairs. 

Of course, i am not so crazy to think to pay 2 dollars and have 10 millions in return. You have to learn and grow as a trader, even if there’s no trader career. But if in exemple a guild needs tons of gold to have often new ships, that means that you can make lot of money, investing lot of money. Those are the basic of commerce, also in Real Life.

And of course you have to be very carefully and patient, if you want to build your Tycoon, whatever it will be. Carefully because every freacking ship that you could encounter at sea, could be a potential menace to your earnings. So in case i decided to join the trading career, i will really start it just when i have at least 2 Brigs (one just in case) and i can afford the eventual loss of ship and goods. And i have to learn which route is best and/or safer and how to reach a certain port without be seen, or at least to minimize the risk to be intercepted. More: i have to always aware which Nation is in war with who, just to avoid to sail in hostile waters, with a disarmed ship ;)

Sure first of all i have to learn the basics of manouvers and how to shoot properly, since this game is PvP strongly oriented. Trader career IMO should work if you are in a Guild, and you have to keep the Guild wealthy...

Edited by blubasso

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, blubasso said:

Of course, i am not so crazy to think to pay 2 dollars and have 10 millions in return. You have to learn and grow as a trader, even if there’s no trader career. But if in exemple a guild needs tons of gold to have often new ships, that means that you can make lot of money, investing lot of money. Those are the basic of commerce, also in Real Life.

And of course you have to be very carefully and patient, if you want to build your Tycoon, whatever it will be. Carefully because every freacking ship that you could encounter at sea, could be a potential menace to your earnings. So in case i decided to join the trading career, i will really start it just when i have at least 2 Brigs (one just in case) and i can afford the eventual loss of ship and goods. And i have to learn which route is best and/or safer and how to reach a certain port without be seen, or at least to minimize the risk to be intercepted. More: i have to always aware which Nation is in war with who, just to avoid to sail in hostile waters, with a disarmed ship ;)

Sure first of all i have to learn the basics of manouvers and how to shoot properly, since this game is PvP strongly oriented. Trader career IMO should work if you are in a Guild, and you have to keep the Guild wealthy...

Seems like a very healthy attitude.  I'd suggest scouting potential trade routes while you're leveling up in a basic cutter, keeping an eye out for hunters and potential spots where hunting is likely (gaps between green zones, areas without forts or friendly ports near by, etc.).  You can bet that the hunters are doing the same and if you can find lanes where you're protected, out of sight of easily or often hunted traffic lanes, etc. you'll find success.  But doing this in your basic cutter before you commit your trade ships to it is probably wise. :) 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
13 minutes ago, Wraith said:

Seems like a very healthy attitude.  I'd suggest scouting potential trade routes while you're leveling up in a basic cutter, keeping an eye out for hunters and potential spots where hunting is likely (gaps between green zones, areas without forts or friendly ports near by, etc.).  You can bet that the hunters are doing the same and if you can find lanes where you're protected, out of sight of easily or often hunted traffic lanes, etc. you'll find success.  But doing this in your basic cutter before you commit your trade ships to it is probably wise. :) 

Thank you for the tipps @Wraith

But if i decide to do the “trader”, it doesn’t mean that i wont sail, killing colleagues... ;) A good PvP is priceless :D

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
21 hours ago, Barbancourt (rownd) said:

It takes money to make money.  When you get yourself a couple million and a 3 trader-brig fleet (requires having the fleeting perks) then the money will start rolling in fast if you can stand the hours of sailing traders back and forth.  Until then worry about learning the combat elements and start some buildings to manufacture repairs. 

Who sails traderbrigs?? - Indiamans.. 60 crew on each, phoenix figurehead, open magazine access and fireship fitting..

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, Bearwall said:

Who sails traderbrigs?? - Indiamans.. 60 crew on each, phoenix figurehead, open magazine access and fireship fitting..

I've never had an Indiaman - they're too expensive and too high risk, and the furnishings should go to making warships.  T-brigs and LGVs are basically free, and T-lynxes whenever possible.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Wraith said:

But doing this in your basic cutter before you commit your trade ships to it is probably wise. :) 

Basic cutter is for free, sailors and repairs too. I don’t care if someone sinks me (cheers to him), all i have to find in this case, is if i had bad luck or that particular trade route is unsafe. If you have enough money, you can even trading without sail out your home port, if the trading system ingame works as offer-demand. Non particularly ethic, but ppl in the cityes are virtual and will not suffer famine ;)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

×