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In preparation of part 5 (final changes) of the sailing model.


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@admin rather than having us all guessing, exaggerating, or giving perceptions based on everyone's limited experiences, perhaps you could summarize how the game calculates wind change in battle. Because now the overall community impression is that the changes don't feel right. But even the most active players have a limited number of battles to compare.

I think it would help us help the game if you described the process a little.

For example: every 5 minutes the game asks if there will be a wind change. 25% chance Yes or 75% chance No. But if yes, which direction? 50% chance clockwise or 50% chance counter? How big? 1-10 degrees.

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6 hours ago, admin said:

Those two mercs of course are not posting on the forums and are probably happy. But we have heard from many active players who (being unhappy about wind changes) noted that they stopped sailing lightly built ships at all as wind changes reduces chances to get away against fleets with mixed profiles forcing them to fight (which is good)

Forcing a *light* ship to fight a mixed fleet is a good thing??? For real? I know for a fact that the streamers are not taking on fleets of frigates in a solitary Prince de Neufchatel.

 

You've hit right upon it though. PvP is being squeezed in scope from what used to be profitable and fun.

 

I have a lot more fun watching Moscal' than playing the game myself, these days.

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Heel and sideslip thru water are too much at the moment. Estimated that the Constitution in game when at full sail on a beam wind is traveling a meter sideways for every 2 - 3 meters forward. And most ships heel so badly even at battle and dead slow sail that cannon cant be brought to bear on target without depowering. This should not happen except at full sail or maybe half. But certainly not at battle sail and below.

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55 minutes ago, Dauntless7_Original said:

Heel and sideslip thru water are too much at the moment. Estimated that the Constitution in game when at full sail on a beam wind is traveling a meter sideways for every 2 - 3 meters forward. And most ships heel so badly even at battle and dead slow sail that cannon cant be brought to bear on target without depowering. This should not happen except at full sail or maybe half. But certainly not at battle sail and below.

It's not remotely that much.

Here's how you test:

Zoom your camera all the way in, looking forward so the viewpoint is near the foremast. Then press the Home key, and observe that the camera sags aft until exiting the ship on the weather quarter. This tells you that the leeway angle is no more than half the length:breadth ratio of the ship. So less than 1/7 for Constitution. Still probably excessive, but whatevs.

And IRl is you are making 10 degrees of leeway in moderate weather, shortening sail is more likely to increase leeway, not decrease it. You are removing lift and thrust from the ship, while the drag of the hull and rig remains.

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Good day.

Foreword: english is not my motherlanguage. I have some experience of the game in last like 2 years. Sorry quite long post.

 

A general note.

We like to stay close to realism, like notes about length to beam ratios to determine the turning rate (referring to previous Admin post on Constitution). Still this is a simulation GAME.

If we’d like a Simulation (period) we should have square rigged ships unable to close wind more than a few degrees over beam reach. The speed loss beyond the closest haul should not be a % every X degrees closing more. Beyond the closest point the ship will stop (starting to leeway a lot).

If you get a sailing boat you can close wind up to 40-45°. As you try to close a bit more, you’ll noticeably lose speed. Closing some more degrees will not slow more the boat. The boat will stop. Try to be sure.

If you’d like a SIMULATION, making a tack would require MINUTES, even 10 or more on very big and clumpsy ships. Turning a yard again: minutes, not seconds. Again try to be sure.

Clearly with these premises the game will be almost unplayable and surely not enjoyable.

What devs, as concept, did is great mixing realism and game. Still now I think we are out of target.

 

Ships.

Aside the problem with “random” BRs (Wasa and Constitution the same??) the problem is the balancing. And the proof is the use of almost the same ships in all PVP. So throwing away a lot of ships we have chance to sail.

Every sub-group of ships (6th rates, light 5th, heavier 5th, 4th…) should be balanced, with always pro and cons choosing one.

1st rates are quite balanced... and NOT BY CHANCE all more or less used in battle: Santissima has the heaviest side, Ocean slight more HP and crew, Victory smaller but nimbler. THIS is balance approx and they got too different BRs.

 

The utmost example of not balanced is Wasa and Constitution (and Agamennon too).

Same BR, the Wasa has almost 2 times the gunnery, she’s sturdier (losing a tiny bit of thickness), far more nimble. Wasa lost only 0.3 kts top speed. Same sailing profile.

Over the Agamennon, the Wasa is vastly superior in any respect aside top downwind speed. No comment.

 

Aside the most blind and utmost love - why someone should sail a Constitution and not a Wasa?

The problem is even worst being the Wasa on PVP market only: the better I’m, the more I can use the Wasa… with her I can beat a lot of inferior ships (with a bit crappier captains) and I keep getting PVP marks to get another. The losing side keeps being unable to get a Wasa to counter.

 

Around “heavier” 5th rate what do you meet in PVP? Endymions and Trincos. They are balanced each other with pros and cons… but superior to other ships. Who ever use frigs or Essex in PVP anymore (aside as targets)? Devs added the nice idea of LGV refit… and now AFAIK is broken.

 

3rd rate: we miss a third choise… and in the end it’s only one: the Bellona. Period. Something to be addressed for sure in the future.

 

I read some proposal, some reasonable, some less… still the way is clear:

 

Correct BRs.

Nerf Wasa and may be move her to 3rd rates: you got 2 decks of 32 / 24 pd: you have to be slower. And probably with worst turning rate, and worst acceleration.

In case of moving her to 3rd rate: Give her 600 crew may be.

Buff Agamennon: no sense really to use her atm. Crappy handling, awful sailing by beam reach, light broadside etc… we know.

Buff Constitution. She has to outmanouver a Wasa (almost a 3rd rate). Period.

And in the end, balance wise, she has to be able to easily run Agamennon/Ingermanland. Keeping into account the length to beam ratio etc… surely Connie pro will not be turning, still has to be faster and with less leeway (deep keel and lower deck - so less wind force on structure) in respect of other 4th rates.

She could outmanouver 3rd rates… she could withstand a side to side with Agamennon/Inger but not for long periods.

We can keep historical thickness, still we can buff Aga/Inger HP to make a prolonged side to side not a good (as realistic) good idea for a Connie granted adversary heavier broadside.

I love Endymion as she is now… still may be too OP. No real cons aside an only not exceptional turning. I’d (a pain for me) try to slightly reduce it a bit: She’ll be still able to tag or run… but going bad if trying a brawl.

Ideas are a lot… and for now on this topic I’ll stop.

 

Mechanics.

First and foremost demasting. Almost to be cancelled. It has to become as historical, more a random (very seldom) chance. Nothing you can aim for.

Realistic wise… aside stacking precision-penetration, the error IMO is physics.

Try to calc the maximum error in degrees a ball fired to a cylinder with a diameter of 1mt at 100 mt to have the ball delivering a good percentage of its kinetic energy. A ball hitting at 45° (so reducing the room for a good shot to almost half) respect exact center of the cylinder will deliver very small fraction of its energy.

Granted a 1mt wide mast and a 30cm ball a decent point of impact is less than 30-40cm on that mast. Anything hitting the mast not almost exactly in the center will bounce off. We are talking about 0.25° arc. A quarter than a single degree firing at 100mt.

Please. Imagine being able to aim a shot with such precision EVEN IN A GAME with a 1800 gun on a moving ship at sea to another moving ship at sea.

 

All the above without taking into account that a ball piercing a mast (with above precision!) and remaining inside (very difficult to pass by leaving a hole) will slightly reduce the mast ability to stay up… because masts stays up thanks to stayropes mainly.

Demasting should happen by very weird chance (two or more very well placed hits in the almost same spot of the mast itself) but with an higher and higher chance the more sails total damage the ship got: because sail damage means also stayropes damaged more and more so in this case a more unstable mast.

 

That said, on repairs.

Get back to 1 rep/ battle. It’s simply funny seeing ships repairing her sails (in combat!) from 60-70% to full up to 10 times in 1h30’ battle.

One hull repair (with a kit on board) per battle, one for sails (meaning changing the holed sails) and no repairs (in combat) for eventual (utmost rare) lost masts.

And 1 crew recovery per battle.

 

Outside battle, if some extra kits on board, someone can repair but on a cooldown (10min? more?): simply ridicolous seeing ppl exiting the battle badly crippled and attacking him again fulled.

If on draght, a ship should be able to use repair kits without cooldown like the Surprise in the movie to be clear. So hidden in a small bay to repair will have some sense.

Even if I'm often boarding, I'd say: make impossible to refull crew at sea with total crew available. Simply recover 50% for example at the end of the battle (recovered wounded and shocked/panicked).

 

This will give more sense to operating close or not to a base - as historical and realistic - with a great edge being close to a friendly port and an huge problem being very afar.

This will end the kiting/demast crap game at the moment where a single expert can win even 1v5 1v10.

You can be the best captain, on the best ship with best crew… still against such odds of similar sized ships you can only run or die: matter only of time and how many will you sink… still you’ll die.

 

And this will partly solve the widening gap between newer players, or more casual, missing cash, good, books to have super ships, facing Star Destroyers lead by Adm.Togo.

If you’re good on a good ship you should beat 2-3 inferior enemies… but over some ratios, you’ll die.

 

Finally: PVP marks. Reduce necessity for them to be less subpar over experts. Only small extra bonuses and paints or flags.

You are a veteran and a good one? You dont need to have super bonuses other will spend months to farm nor you dont need to be able to super gear your ship to beat less expert: you are better.

And do not cry “I spent 1 year farming”. In all successful games, something extremely rare today becomes usually common in one year worth of patches. Use new patches to add new small perks so vets will keep a slight edge still with high costs to farm/buy.

BECAUSE THIS ALLOW THE GAME TO ATTRACT AND RETAIN NEW PLAYERS.

 

I’ll stop for now: noticed the dimension of post. My apologizes

 

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9 hours ago, Dauntless7_Original said:

At the same time most of them transition from forward to reverse instantly and accelerate in reverse at a rate equal to or faster than they do forward. This shouldn't happen due to hull design and the hydraulic forces applied to the hull by the water. It seems the force being applied to yard sails and stays is way out of realistic proportions. Consider that sails on yards would not generate the same force when catching the wind from the front as the do when catching it from the rear, since they become folded around the mast and lose effectiveness when the wind is from front.

Actually that is just the knot meter playing tricks with you. It confused me at first (and still does somewhat LOL), but Admin explained it in another thread. Here is my understanding of it: the knot meter tracks the movement of the ship, in any direction. If the ship is moving 2kn sideways and .1kn forward, you will see 2.1kn on the knot meter. If the ship is moving 2kn sideways and .1kn in reverse, you will see -2.1kn. Keep in mind also that the weight of the ship and any wood types or modules which increase acceleration and deceleration time can help to make the tacking smoother, sometimes even eliminating the need to reverse,. Which is why you can watch a Santisima come through the wind without really reversing any noticeable distance: in fact, with proper manual sailing, the knot meter never displays a negative unless you began the tack at a slower speed than usual. Some lighter ships, however, like Bucentaure, Bellona, Ingermanland, etc, seem to almost always reverse when you tack them, but that is alright since the transition from forward to reverse to forward again is very smooth (remember that most of the time you are moving sideways when coming out of the wind, and only slightly forward or backward).

Historically speaking, most ships would pick up sternway while tacking. As far as speed in reverse and accelerating to that speed: remember time is compressed so acceleration happens much faster in the game; and I've yet to see a ship move more than about 6kn in reverse (14.8kn Endymion, depowered, sails backing, dead in the eye of the wind, no rudder input). When tacking Ingermanland, for example, I can come into the wind with about 6kn, lose headway and begin to sag to leeward, at a speed of "-2kn" (remember, the knot meter tracks movement of the ship, not the speed in forward or reverse: most of that -2kn is the ship sliding sideways, with the bow sliding faster because the sails on the foremast are backing as close to 90* to the wind as I can make them, and the rear sails are luffing as much as I can make them [not to mention, the bow of most ships usually have less draft than the stern, since it makes turning easier]), reversing rudder helps bring the bow out of irons, and the ship begins to accelerate forward.

 

9 hours ago, Dauntless7_Original said:

Demasting has become far too easy. Consider that in reality most mast hits with round shot would result in a ricochet off the mast if the shot did not hit the mast square on.

I don't think demasting has gotten too easy: its become popular because of a silly patch ages ago that made mast thickness very high and mast HP very low. It becomes very popular in battles these days to throw a few broadsides into your enemy's masts in the hopes you get lucky and they're not running mast mods. Because if they aren't, and your cannons can penetrate their masts, it only takes a few shots to disable them.

To make demasting balance, decrease mast thickness, increase mast HP. Masts will be able to be shot off with smaller caliber guns, but it will take a long time. Demasting was much more balanced when the game worked this way: all 5th rates could demast at least one portion of another 5th rate's masts, but it took varying numbers of shot, based on the mast HP. I remember it taking 11-14 standard ball shots of 42pd longs at the lower section of a first rate's masts to take it out, compared to the 7-9 double-charged shots that it takes now. Doesn't seem like a huge change on paper, but most players are lucky to be able to hit 3-4 single-shots into the same mast out of an entire broadside, perhaps fewer if they just lob a broadside into your mast. That is assuming you are properly maneuvering to make demasting harder for your enemy. Players who have practiced for a long time have much higher mast hit ratios, but that is skill-based, and skill deserves to be rewarded.

And no, I very highly doubt a pine mast will bounce a cannonball. A quick internet search yielded some useful information: a 32pd cannonball fired from a long cannon develops around 1.2 million foot-pounds of muzzle energy. That is a lot of energy for a piece of wood to stop. Pine is a very soft wood. A heavy cannonball fired from reasonable range will smash into the mast and take out a decent chunk of it...something tells me a mast that is already strained by the sails and the rolling and pitching of the ship in the sea, is not going to be standing for much longer...if it doesn't fall almost immediately upon impact :).

All that is really irrelevant though, since the primary method of removing masts or spars was shooting chainshot into the rigging to either shatter the fragile yards (which are under enormous strain when a press of canvas is set) or yard slings (ropes holding the yards up), or in the hopes that the chainshot would cut through enough backstays and shrouds that the mast becomes too weak to continue to bear the press of canvas and falls spectacularly. Of course, some chainshot impacting the mast and splintering out small chunks of it would help to ensure that it is weak enough to fall.

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1 hour ago, Licinio Chiavari said:

Good day.

Foreword: english is not my motherlanguage. I have some experience of the game in last like 2 years. Sorry quite long post.

 

A general note.

We like to stay close to realism, like notes about length to beam ratios to determine the turning rate (referring to previous Admin post on Constitution). Still this is a simulation GAME.

If we’d like a Simulation (period) we should have square rigged ships unable to close wind more than a few degrees over beam reach. The speed loss beyond the closest haul should not be a % every X degrees closing more. Beyond the closest point the ship will stop (starting to leeway a lot).

If you get a sailing boat you can close wind up to 40-45°. As you try to close a bit more, you’ll noticeably lose speed. Closing some more degrees will not slow more the boat. The boat will stop. Try to be sure.

If you’d like a SIMULATION, making a tack would require MINUTES, even 10 or more on very big and clumpsy ships. Turning a yard again: minutes, not seconds. Again try to be sure.

Clearly with these premises the game will be almost unplayable and surely not enjoyable.

What devs, as concept, did is great mixing realism and game. Still now I think we are out of target.

 

Ships.

Aside the problem with “random” BRs (Wasa and Constitution the same??) the problem is the balancing. And the proof is the use of almost the same ships in all PVP. So throwing away a lot of ships we have chance to sail.

Every sub-group of ships (6th rates, light 5th, heavier 5th, 4th…) should be balanced, with always pro and cons choosing one.

1st rates are quite balanced... and NOT BY CHANCE all more or less used in battle: Santissima has the heaviest side, Ocean slight more HP and crew, Victory smaller but nimbler. THIS is balance approx and they got too different BRs.

 

The utmost example of not balanced is Wasa and Constitution (and Agamennon too).

Same BR, the Wasa has almost 2 times the gunnery, she’s sturdier (losing a tiny bit of thickness), far more nimble. Wasa lost only 0.3 kts top speed. Same sailing profile.

Over the Agamennon, the Wasa is vastly superior in any respect aside top downwind speed. No comment.

 

Aside the most blind and utmost love - why someone should sail a Constitution and not a Wasa?

The problem is even worst being the Wasa on PVP market only: the better I’m, the more I can use the Wasa… with her I can beat a lot of inferior ships (with a bit crappier captains) and I keep getting PVP marks to get another. The losing side keeps being unable to get a Wasa to counter.

 

Around “heavier” 5th rate what do you meet in PVP? Endymions and Trincos. They are balanced each other with pros and cons… but superior to other ships. Who ever use frigs or Essex in PVP anymore (aside as targets)? Devs added the nice idea of LGV refit… and now AFAIK is broken.

 

3rd rate: we miss a third choise… and in the end it’s only one: the Bellona. Period. Something to be addressed for sure in the future.

 

I read some proposal, some reasonable, some less… still the way is clear:

 

Correct BRs.

Nerf Wasa and may be move her to 3rd rates: you got 2 decks of 32 / 24 pd: you have to be slower. And probably with worst turning rate, and worst acceleration.

In case of moving her to 3rd rate: Give her 600 crew may be.

Buff Agamennon: no sense really to use her atm. Crappy handling, awful sailing by beam reach, light broadside etc… we know.

Buff Constitution. She has to outmanouver a Wasa (almost a 3rd rate). Period.

And in the end, balance wise, she has to be able to easily run Agamennon/Ingermanland. Keeping into account the length to beam ratio etc… surely Connie pro will not be turning, still has to be faster and with less leeway (deep keel and lower deck - so less wind force on structure) in respect of other 4th rates.

She could outmanouver 3rd rates… she could withstand a side to side with Agamennon/Inger but not for long periods.

We can keep historical thickness, still we can buff Aga/Inger HP to make a prolonged side to side not a good (as realistic) good idea for a Connie granted adversary heavier broadside.

I love Endymion as she is now… still may be too OP. No real cons aside an only not exceptional turning. I’d (a pain for me) try to slightly reduce it a bit: She’ll be still able to tag or run… but going bad if trying a brawl.

Ideas are a lot… and for now on this topic I’ll stop.

 

Mechanics.

First and foremost demasting. Almost to be cancelled. It has to become as historical, more a random (very seldom) chance. Nothing you can aim for.

Realistic wise… aside stacking precision-penetration, the error IMO is physics.

Try to calc the maximum error in degrees a ball fired to a cylinder with a diameter of 1mt at 100 mt to have the ball delivering a good percentage of its kinetic energy. A ball hitting at 45° (so reducing the room for a good shot to almost half) respect exact center of the cylinder will deliver very small fraction of its energy.

Granted a 1mt wide mast and a 30cm ball a decent point of impact is less than 30-40cm on that mast. Anything hitting the mast not almost exactly in the center will bounce off. We are talking about 0.25° arc. A quarter than a single degree firing at 100mt.

Please. Imagine being able to aim a shot with such precision EVEN IN A GAME with a 1800 gun on a moving ship at sea to another moving ship at sea.

 

All the above without taking into account that a ball piercing a mast (with above precision!) and remaining inside (very difficult to pass by leaving a hole) will slightly reduce the mast ability to stay up… because masts stays up thanks to stayropes mainly.

Demasting should happen by very weird chance (two or more very well placed hits in the almost same spot of the mast itself) but with an higher and higher chance the more sails total damage the ship got: because sail damage means also stayropes damaged more and more so in this case a more unstable mast.

 

That said, on repairs.

Get back to 1 rep/ battle. It’s simply funny seeing ships repairing her sails (in combat!) from 60-70% to full up to 10 times in 1h30’ battle.

One hull repair (with a kit on board) per battle, one for sails (meaning changing the holed sails) and no repairs (in combat) for eventual (utmost rare) lost masts.

And 1 crew recovery per battle.

 

Outside battle, if some extra kits on board, someone can repair but on a cooldown (10min? more?): simply ridicolous seeing ppl exiting the battle badly crippled and attacking him again fulled.

If on draght, a ship should be able to use repair kits without cooldown like the Surprise in the movie to be clear. So hidden in a small bay to repair will have some sense.

Even if I'm often boarding, I'd say: make impossible to refull crew at sea with total crew available. Simply recover 50% for example at the end of the battle (recovered wounded and shocked/panicked).

 

This will give more sense to operating close or not to a base - as historical and realistic - with a great edge being close to a friendly port and an huge problem being very afar.

This will end the kiting/demast crap game at the moment where a single expert can win even 1v5 1v10.

You can be the best captain, on the best ship with best crew… still against such odds of similar sized ships you can only run or die: matter only of time and how many will you sink… still you’ll die.

 

And this will partly solve the widening gap between newer players, or more casual, missing cash, good, books to have super ships, facing Star Destroyers lead by Adm.Togo.

If you’re good on a good ship you should beat 2-3 inferior enemies… but over some ratios, you’ll die.

 

 

i Cant be more agree with this!!!!
 

Edited by Carlos_Condell
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13 hours ago, maturin said:

Forcing a *light* ship to fight a mixed fleet is a good thing??? For real? I know for a fact that the streamers are not taking on fleets of frigates in a solitary Prince de Neufchatel.

 

We know and made everything so you can win if you are outnumbered. we dont want you to fit for running away (thats what i meant by lightly built ships). I dont know how you could translate lightly build (fir fir bellona) into a light ship (prince de neufchâtel). 

Maybe we should talk russian only, like the japanese developers do - never speaking a word in english to the community even though they could so people never misinterpret their statements.

The fir fir gap is going to be increased further this patch. Lightly built ships would be much worse in their ability to sustain damage 

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22 minutes ago, admin said:

We know and made everything so you can win if you are outnumbered. we dont want you to fit for running away (thats what i meant by lightly built ships). I dont know how you could translate lightly build (fir fir bellona) into a light ship (prince de neufchâtel). 

Maybe we should talk russian only, like the japanese developers do - never speaking a word in english to the community even though they could so people never misinterpret their statements.

The fir fir gap is going to be increased further this patch. Lightly built ships would be much worse in their ability to sustain damage 

But ,but but you do talk russian even when you talk english....

 

Just kidding admin :),,  just kidding  :) (just talk/write  english too, otherwise google translate must make overtime)

mod : ....it is a joke , a joke,  just a joke.... seriously just a joke men... -_-

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44 minutes ago, admin said:

The fir fir gap is going to be increased further this patch. Lightly built ships would be much worse in their ability to sustain damage 

Personally, Fir is already super-squishy.  I think instead woods should be looked at to see why teak and white oak are so popular, and why woods such as caguarian, sabicu, and mahogany go virtually unused.

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48 minutes ago, admin said:

Maybe we should talk russian only, like the japanese developers do - never speaking a word in english to the community even though they could so people never misinterpret their statements.

Admin.. That will only make it worse, it won't help in any way. 
Sometimes you misinterpret what we say too, it is a very normal thing when people from all over the world talk to each other.
If someone in the community (Myself or someone else) misinterpret what you say, try not to go on defensive mode. 
Stay cool, calm and try to explain what you mean exactly. 

I promise you, i will do the same from now on. (And maybe others will also, i hope!). 
 

Good example; 
- Earlier in this topic, i posted this:

17 hours ago, TommyShelby said:

- My opinion; Small wind changes are great, but wind turning 180 in 10 minutes is ridiculous. (I know its not 180 in 10 minutes, but it is too extreme now which is my point.) 

When i make this comment, i thought i make very clear when i say "Wind turning 180 in 10 minutes" i did not mean it exactly. 
I'm not sure exactly how much the wind turns, and how often it turns. But it turn very much and very often. Writing 180 in 10 minute just is arbitrary numbers.

But, we i am from Denmark, you are from Ukraine. Neither of us are native english speaker and you misunderstand my statement.

17 hours ago, admin said:

it does not turn 180 and never did
it does not turn every 10 mins as well 

So when you wrote this, i got really frustrated because like i said, in my head i very clearly did not mean it turn 180 in 10 minutes. 
Instead of be frustrated i should just have stayed calm and explain like i did now. 

So i will apologize for not answer in polite way. 
In future, i will try stay calm and explain again what i mean, in polite way. 

------
This is all off-topic, i know. But i write as answer to your idea of only speak russian from now on. :)



 

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9 hours ago, maturin said:

Yeah, even if shot ricocheted off a mast, it would do so by taking a chunk out of the side. Ships regularly reported shot stuck in their masts.

Again. A chunk out would not demast you. Moreover the problem are laser guided balla: too easy aiming at masts with some practice. The Surprise of the movie (in a movie) purposely demasted the French... Please Remember even in a movie what the crew had to do to try, at very low Speed, point blank, no waves on a surprised enemy.

Speaking about wood types, some needs different bonus to make dense. Sure.

Still the biggest issue is the stackable bonuses allowing two deckers flying at ludicrous speeds.

IMHO there should not be an hard speed cap (15.5).

On the contrary, granted ship base Speed = X, her cap Speed should be a percentage cap. No matter how many mods, fir or books, if base speed is 12.00 your max speed is 13.2 (with 10% cap) or 13.5 (with cap at 13% even too much imo). The better books or mods simply will allow to speed cap more loaded or with stronger woods.

May be this way no more SoLs raiding being quite weird...

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3 hours ago, admin said:

We know and made everything so you can win if you are outnumbered. we dont want you to fit for running away (thats what i meant by lightly built ships).

Why? Skill should matter and would matter 1v2 1v3... And speed was in all history the main defense of raiders.

Still nothing should allow a Wasa or a Bellona outrunning fast frigates and/or win against a big squadron.

Personal skill should matter but far bigger force should win.

On the contrary, aside utter un-realism, what we think a new/casual player is expected to do?

Only pve farming / trading for a couple years?

Sailing only to be farmed for PVP marks?

What can casual/newer players realistically do PVP wise now?

1v1, no. Fine but if even banding together they can be farmed how we can suppose to keep them enjoyed? 

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It is a multi player game. A team starts with 2. Not 1.

Although the game provides enough room for solo play and to be able to emulate battles such as 1 to 5 from history. Rare, extremely rare, both in history and in game.

HMS_Mediator_in_action_December_1782.jpg

( HMS Mediator versus five enemies )

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1 hour ago, Hethwill said:

It is a multi player game. A team starts with 2. Not 1.

Although the game provides enough room for solo play and to be able to emulate battles such as 1 to 5 from history. Rare, extremely rare, both in history and in game.

 

Thats the problem. In game a well geared Wasa, with a veteran, can kite and easily demast 5-6 even bigger ships and then sink them one by one.

This because stacking bonuses allow ludicrous speeds (to kite), demast is too easy if trained and geared for it and "infinite" repairs allow to soak a prolonged battle against terrible odds (on paper).

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Our current major issues is and has been...

-Wood balance, some woods are just VASTLY superior to others.

-Mods balance, mod stacking throws ships WAY out of balance with each other, as others have stated.

-Gun accuracy, the guns are more accurate than modern guns on modern ships with modern fire control and gyro stabilization.

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19 hours ago, maturin said:

Forcing a *light* ship to fight a mixed fleet is a good thing??? For real? I know for a fact that the streamers are not taking on fleets of frigates in a solitary Prince de Neufchatel.

 

You've hit right upon it though. PvP is being squeezed in scope from what used to be profitable and fun.

 

I have a lot more fun watching Moscal' than playing the game myself, these days.

Did you ever here Moscalb whine about this or that mechanic? He does his thing - he fights, he wins, sometimes he looses than he stands up and fight again. And he uses different ships against farious targets. He doesn't count the BR before he engages.

The secret of the real good players, like Moscalb, is: They simply do what they want to do, with the material they get

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If you can assure us that each of the ships in the game now behave as in real life then that's wonderful. Hard luck if you cant manage to sail any of them but that's life and this a simulation therefore the truer the better. However if I find out that ships such as the Wasa are just buffed over and above others then that's a complete cheat and the whole thing becomes a total waste of time. Nuff said?!!

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1 hour ago, Otto Kohl said:

How I love to read carebears crying because they can't win 5v1. Just stop carebearing pve, learn how to play smart and you won't be smashed that easy again. You all make so stupid mistakes all the time you don't even realize. 

Its not because of upgrades you get smashed. It's because you don't know how to sail, how to keep wind advantage, how to aim and how to shoot. You don't know wood type characteristics, your ship sailing profiles, mast thickness and gun penetration tables. Your "skill" gained in pve is worthless in pvp. Until you realize that you will be smashed in every engagement.

This is true. PVE experience is almost worthless in PVP if missing good understanding of game mechanics.

I thought being medium/decent... But after seeing some captains I noticed that the level even in basic sail handling is sometimes terrible. 

Still...

1. Even the most pro gamer what that all could stand a chance to enjoy the game. Too people angry are less players. Less players kill games.

2. All successful games are rewarding skill and dedication still they help to reduce the gap between skill / farming different levels. Example are 'what's super rare today, only for the best, in one year will be almost common for all'. Even in competitive fantasy games, the difference of skill/gear are more easily equalled with numbers than here. THIS IS AN ISSUE.

3. There's a lot discussions about realism. Still some mechanics widening the gap between casuals and pros are NOT REALISTIC. As usual I am mainly referring to demasting and repairs.

 

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OT: I can't understand why ppl would get mad at the combat in the high seas ( as someone writes up there). This is no "information era" universe. This is the age of sail. Safety goes as far as the guns can shoot. There will be enemies beyond the horizon. That is a fact.

Another fact: If we all use plain store ships and no repair possible, the "pros" will still rule the waves.

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32 minutes ago, rediii said:

#.

Thats actually wrong. Just load chain and you will win every engagement against less enemys.

The best player cant do anything with 50% sails.

Yes and nay.

Thats true if the pro is not equipped with laser guided balls and demasts 3 ships with 6 broadsides, so in less than 10 mins, manouvering included.

Or if, thanks to overstacking bonus that only he could reasonably have, he can kite and keep repairing 30+% every 10 mins.

The proper balancing IMO should be:

Great odds (4+v1) > skill & Gear > skill > small odds (2 or 3v1) > Gear

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On 1/24/2018 at 10:25 AM, Banished Privateer said:

Essex is probably the most useless 5th rate that no one uses. I hope it helps the realism and immersion of the game.

One of my favorite useless ships....I do fleet it and as a fleet ship it's ok

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First thing first, i think that newcomers need how to sail and how to shoot properly. I think that will be the first goal for them (adding me). This game is focused on skills, so you have to learn them, before to go blindly against other human players. I think Devs should do whatever possible to “teach” newcomers that it’s for their safeness and more fun on the sea. Yes, you could learn in the hard way, but if you dunno when you making something wrong, you go on to make mistakes and start to be frustrated. Perks are not the ultimate solution, because they are for all, so they are for pros, too. A pro with perks is more challenging to fight against, especially for someone who has no knowledge of this game.

I, for exemple as newcomer, avoid for now PvP fights because my poor or nonexistent sailing and shooting skills. I will be atomized to nanoparticles from the first medium-good palyer i should play versus. It’s my fault and i have to learn how to sail and how to shoot. 

Ppl come here, like me, thinking that this game is like all the others: skills...ok, but i can surely manage them. 

Wrong: without skills, you are a frustrated poor soul and complain about nerf or buff this or that stuff, because you cannot beat it.

So please, the game should point at newcomers (speaking about this category, in which i am) to become a sailor, first of all, than a fighter. With those basics, “Good bye and good luck, you’re on your own”

Edited by blubasso
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On 1/26/2018 at 8:30 AM, blubasso said:

First thing first, i think that newcomers need how to sail and how to shoot properly. I think that will be the first goal for them (adding me). This game is focused on skills, so you have to learn them, before to go blindly against other human players. I think Devs should do whatever possible to “teach” newcomers that it’s for their safeness and more fun on the sea. Yes, you could learn in the hard way, but if you dunno when you making something wrong, you go on to make mistakes and start to be frustrated. Perks are not the ultimate solution, because they are for all, so they are for pros, too. A pro with perks is more challenging to fight against, especially for someone who has no knowledge of this game.

I, for exemple as newcomer, avoid for now PvP fights because my poor or nonexistent sailing and shooting skills. I will be atomized to nanoparticles from the first medium-good palyer i should play versus. It’s my fault and i have to learn how to sail and how to shoot. 

Ppl come here, like me, thinking that this game is like all the others: skills...ok, but i can surely manage them. 

Wrong: without skills, you are a frustrated poor soul and complain about nerf or buff this or that stuff, because you cannot beat it.

So please, the game should point at newcomers (speaking about this category, in which i am) to become a sailor, first of all, than a fighter. With those basics, “Good bye and good luck, you’re on your own”

I helped train up new guys for quite a while.  But I stopped at one point.  It was not the chore of giving ships and sailing with them.  It was how  the game developed post the great wipe.  They start out, sail get excited, learn, get better ships until they get about to the 250 crew level.  Then after getting sunk a bunch, seeing that the old salts have all grouped into their own club and beat the tar out of people nightly.  They might do a Port battle, but most likely, they will be stuck screening and realize they are not getting in the fight.  Then they get in a group and go out to hunt the enemy in enemy waters.  After wasted hour after wasted hour, they realize that is a waste of time too.

Trade missions are still a joke.  There is no mission content.  There are not enough players to do stuff many nights.

It has happened over and over.  A tutorial is not going to fix that.

So I stopped doing it (not that you see that many new guys anyway).  Not worth the time investment since they will play a month or so and be gone.

They game will not be playable until the best players stop grouping into small clumps and the power play is more spread out.

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