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In preparation of part 5 (final changes) of the sailing model.


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ad1. Current wind change in battle makes it more arcade. It promotes engagements. There are far less "running-chasing" fights. In my opinion it promotes more interesting PvP encounters.

On the other hand fighting for wind is not that important any more, as the wind changes randomly. There's less strategy in the game, more tactics.

Probably making wind changes less extreme could keep the balance of having meaningful strategies, in the same time promoting fights...

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6 minutes ago, Liq said:

Also might want to nerf thickness of 4th - 1st rates by at least 15%

In my opinion 15% nerf is a bit  too much. Nerfing by 5%, and then nerfing thickness upgrades, so that you can't stack them to more than 7%, would do the trick in my opinion. 

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14 minutes ago, Liq said:

Also might want to nerf thickness of 4th - 1st rates by at least 15%

or nerf penetration in guns (especially longs)

the benefit of this we will get closer to each other :)

or do both :))

sorry for delay Mods restriction

Edited by Thonys
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26 minutes ago, victor said:

or, even simpler: introduce a progressive PVP rank (calculated by means of the number of PVP marks gained through combat) and visible in OS, that enters into the calculations of the numbers of the PVP marks that are awarded in case you sink the player.

I would start at rank O ("hopeless carebear" or "Victor" rank)  - and then when someone kills me he gets just 1 PVP mark no matter which ship I am sailing sail, but - after having gained 20 PVP marks in combat I become rank 1 ("noob") - and then when someone sinks me gets 2 PVP marks, no matter which ship I sail  ... and so on up to the rank "wtfuberpwnzrplayer" that - after 1000 marks - gets the one that is able to sink me 20 marks for  each sinking.

Of course number can be different, but the concept is there.

PS: a more sophisticated version could be a formula that takes the rank of the sunk player and the rank of the winning one and modulates the rewards in a way that a lower ranked player will earn more PVP marks if he succeeds in sinking a higher rank player, while if a higher rank player sinks a lower rank player, then he gets less PVP marks.

A system like this could be exploited. For this to work, you would have to get  PvP marks for sinking based on a mix of two factors:

  • player experience (like you propose)
  • number of fights that this player didn't sink in until now

A most fair system would be to use a renown system - once you die, your renown is reset eg. to a base of your rank. When you sink other people who give you PvP marks, your renown increases in a linear relation to rewards you get. Once someone sinks you, he gets PvP reward based on your renown at that time.

This would make skilled players fight each other, in the same time avoid exploits of farming each others eg. in duels.

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13 minutes ago, sveno said:


@admin

 

On a serious note to the Wasa:

It is a shallow draft ship (as most Swedish designs), shallow draft means less displacement, less displacement means higher speed.
Going with that logic, shallow draft means less weight, hvy cannons leave then even less weight for armor, means should be a glass cannon.
Shallow draft means also high COM, high COM means lot of heel, so being badly armored and heeling alot could be the logical nerv for the Wasa.

Historically, none of that applied to the Wasa/Gustaph Adolphs. They stood their ground against russian three-deckers and 74s in the war of 1788/89 and were able to take a lot of punishment. They also were considered as very stiff ships, able to fly a lot of canvas with little heeling. That being said, taking the weights of the swedish 36s/24s into account, the in-game armament should be 32s/18s.

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9 minutes ago, vazco said:

A system like this could be exploited. For this to work, you would have to get  PvP marks for sinking based on a mix of two factors:

  • player experience (like you propose)
  • number of fights that this player didn't sink in until now

A most fair system would be to use a renown system - once you die, your renown is reset eg. to a base of your rank. When you sink other people who give you PvP marks, your renown increases in a linear relation to rewards you get. Once someone sinks you, he gets PvP reward based on your renown at that time.

This would make skilled players fight each other, in the same time avoid exploits of farming each others eg. in duels.

overall good idea.

but what about players who have been in the fight for doing tagging and shooting sail ect.. there should be a good reward system implemented also

a system with dedicated rewards like:  scout,  and tagger, assist, mast shooter, hauler vs warship , 1 vs 1 , ...rewards.. for example [  rewards what accumulate the final reward for doing battle ]

sorry for delay Mods vissibility

Edited by Thonys
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Windchange in PBs is still too much. A 90° rotation always leads to one of the following:

1) Two fleets are approaching at beam reach. Since we have a 5 minute join timer, the first windturn will occur after 10 minutes of sailing. At this point theres a 50/50 chance for either of the attacker or the defender getting full wind control
=> totally RNG based mechanic, if you have the wind into your face as attcker you might aswell leave here since the defender probably captures all 3 circles

2) The attcker starts with full wind advantage. He will approach the first circle fast, the defender will send one ship downwind to capture 2 circles. Before the fleets clash though, the first wind change will occur. Now theres a 100% chance for the attacker to lose its advantage and initiate the fight at beam reach.
=> basically no RNG here, but the wind change takes the initiative from the attacker by default

 

To make windchanges less decisive for fleet engagements it needs to be less drastic and more predictable. I suggest to

1) slow it down to 45° every 10 minutes instead of 90° every 15 minutes. You can not lose the wind advantage then if you fought for it.

2) add an indicator where the wind will change next time (i think experienced sailors had a good feeling about wind changes back then, right?). This involves further planning and takes RNG wind advantage gifts out of the game.

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21 minutes ago, Havelock said:

Now theres a 100% chance for the attacker to lose its advantage and initiate the fight at beam reach.

Methinks one could still keep it while the wind turns. So 100% is pretty much. Generally I agree and think the suggested changes are pretty smart (just counting peas as Greg Mendel did o.O)

Edited by Palatinose
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4 hours ago, Otto Kohl said:

Please look into Bucentaur's stern. There is something wrong with its stern hp. It feels really tanky and not taking damage properly. 

Maybe the guy had that new stern armor upgrade. This upgrade buff the armor at more than 100 thickness, depending on the ship.

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24 minutes ago, Thonys said:

overall good idea.

but what about players who have been in the fight for doing tagging and shooting sail ect.. there should be a good reward system implemented also

a system with dedicated rewards like:  scout,  and tagger, assist, mast shooter, hauler vs warship , 1 vs 1 , ...rewards.. for example [  rewards what accumulate the final reward for doing battle ]

sorry for delay Mods vissibility

Any formula could word, but the important thing is that the system should give no incentive for skilled PVPer to tag players with a very low PVP rank but shall induce players to try their luck (and skill) against higher PVP ranked players.

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4 minutes ago, Serk said:

Maybe the guy had that new stern armor upgrade. This upgrade buff the armor at more than 100 thickness, depending on the ship.

possible but still the shown damage should be applied visually. if u are able to pen, you cause damage. the upgrade you're talking about enlarges the thickness, not the hp if im correct.

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1 hour ago, HachiRoku said:

Wasa: People here complain about her and I don't know why to be honest. Bellona is faster and is better in most aspects.

Bellona is a full knot slower, except dead downwind.

Wasa should be cut down to 18s on the upper deck.

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Realistic Wind Change Mechanics

Here is my simple suggestion that will make wind change act very realistic and unpredictable. We already have roll dice system in the game or at least something similar (gambling). 

This is how it will work:

We have 2 dices.  One is Green and one is Red. Green controls wind movement to the Right and Red to the Left

Wind shift happens in marks, full 360 wind circle has 24 marks. 180-90(quarter) has 6 marks. 6 Marks represent 6 dots on the dice. So, if Green dice strikes 6 ---> wind will change 1 quarter (6 marks to the right) and if Red Dice strikes 6 wind will shift 6 marks to the left and so on. If script dice strikes Green 2, wind will shift to the right by 2 marks with timer of 4 minutes until next roll.

Hold timer - Take dice number and multiply by 2. 

1+1= 2 minutes (roll 2 colored dices again in 2 minutes)

2x2 = 4 minutes (roll 2 colored dices again in 4 minutes)

3x3 = 9 minutes (roll 2 colored dices again in 9 minutes)

4x4 = 16 minutes (roll 2 colored dices again in 16 minutes)

5x5 = 25 minutes (roll 2 colored dices again in 25 minutes)

6x6 = 36 minutes (roll 2 colored dices again in 36 minutes)

 

1JvNmJD.jpg

This is how it will look:

   --->        9          -->        2         <----     16    ---->   16      <------    36     <--  2

Green 3(9)  - Green 1(2) - Red 4(16) - Green 4(16) - Red 6(36) - Red 1(2) ...etc...

 

*(0) - timer until next  system roll.

Enjoy. 

 

Edited by H2O
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5 minutes ago, H2O said:

Realistic Wind Change Mechanics

Here is my simple suggestion that will make wind change act very realistic and unpredictable. We already have roll dice system in the game or at least something similar (gambling). 

This is how it will work:

We have 2 dices.  One is Green and one is Red. Green controls wind movement to the Right and Red to the Left

Wind shift happens in marks(quarters) 180-90(quarter) has 6 marks. 6 Marks represent 6 dots on the dice. So, if Green dice strikes 6 ---> wind will change 1 quarter (6 marks to the right) and if Red Dice strikes 6 wind will shift 6 marks to the left and so on. 

Hold timer - Take dice number and multiply by 2. 

1+1= 2 minutes (roll 2 colored dices again in 2 minutes)

2x2 = 4 minutes (roll 2 colored dices again in 4 minutes)

3x3 = 9 minutes (roll 2 colored dices again in 9 minutes)

4x4 = 16 minutes (roll 2 colored dices again in 16 minutes)

5x5 = 25 minutes (roll 2 colored dices again in 25 minutes)

6x6 = 36 minutes (roll 2 colored dices again in 36 minutes)

 

1JvNmJD.jpg

Enjoy. 

 

well ....people cheat with dices :(

but it is funny and creative thoughts indeed

Edited by Thonys
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- schooners need a closer look- They still feel like pre sailing model change

- wind turns to quick and to much. If the reason for it is lee shore. Lee shore should always be dangerous.

regarding heel and the demand for more heel of certain shallow ships. I am not sure about that they have a very flat hull shape and videos dont show the US Brig niagara heel much but might be just wind and sea conditions? @maturin

 

 

Edited by z4ys
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Faster turn rates = a lot of fun. Right now turning feels like we are in the mud trying to get out. Personally, I do not like it. I am not even going to talk about close haul and speed loss when trying to turn into the wind. Terrible. I think values need to increase at least 15% (increase turn rate on all ships). 

Edited by H2O
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12 minutes ago, H2O said:

Faster turn rates = a lot of fun. Right now turning feels like we are in the mud trying to get out. Personally, I do not like it. I am not even going to talk about close haul and speed loss when trying to turn into the wind. Terrible. I think values need to increase at least 15% (increase turn rate on all ships). 

This aint ships of world of warships. At the moment the naval combat is really great. First rates can deal with friagtes camping them. Or do you want to go back in time and to solo sterncamp  with a surprise?

Edited by z4ys
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Wind changes:

Please make them more smooth and predictable!

Otherwise fighting for the weather gauge (one of the most important things in the age of sail) can feel like participating in a lottery.

Sailing profile and ship differences:

Please make the Victory the best upwind sailing 1st rate again!

Santi has the most firepower, l‘Ocean the best tankyness and the Vic should be the best sailor imo.

Otherwise players using Vic’s could become very scarce.

Update:

Oh, and I almost forgot to say a very kind: PLEASE adjust the BR!

Edited by Navalus Magnus
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43 minutes ago, Thonys said:

well ....people cheat with dices :(

but it is funny and creative thoughts indeed

What is so funny about it? Not sure what that has to do with the system rolling dice. It will be the script that is responsible for every roll combination and players won't have anything to do with it. I will gladly listen to your suggestions on wind mechanics and it's improvement.  

Edited by H2O
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А почему только на английском? Русских игроков тут более чем до  много.

1. И самое главное. Проект, где бесконечно двигали ползуночки и добавляли иногда кораблики у нас уже был;) И чем реже и вдумчивее вы будете это делать, тем лучше.

2. Переменный ветер в бою это вообще шняга полная. Ну зачем в скилловую пвп игру добавлять рулетку? 

-Уходили бейдвинд, намеренно слили своего, который не мог - ОТКАЗАТЬ.
-На ПБ посчитали ветер, с потерями сыграли так, чтобы прижать ветром противника к берегу - ОТКАЗАТЬ.
-Торгаш зафичен в определенный ветер, грамотно контр-тагнул в море, чтобы свалить - ОТКАЗАТЬ.

В общем, имхо рулетка тут совершенно ни к чему. Ветер часть тактики, менять правила по ходу боя нельзя. Переменный ветер в бою надо отменять, либо нерфить на порядок, сейчас крутит так, что на рейте отвернуть от ветра порой не успеваешь.

Корабли... По скорости они все ппц какие похожие, я первый раз увидел графики думал ошибся, настолько плотно все расположены по скоростным характеристикам.
Игре не хватает истинно пиратских кораблей с косыми парусами, быстрых абордажников.

С векторами что-то не то, очень тяжело заворачивать. Наблюдать, как корабль прет почти не снижая скорости имея ПОПЕРЕК НОСА другой корабль, пусть и меньший по массе, по меньшей мере странно в игре, жертвующей геймплеем в пользу аутентичности. Абордаж имхо должен быть возможен и на более высоких скоростях, если скорости согласованы и расстояние позволяет.

Непись. На ней невозможно тренироваться, ибо она крутит так, как среднестатистический игрок без зафита на ускорение и маневр не может. Это не мое мнение, это мнение тру-пвпшеров из рублей.

Информация. Ее нет. Да, вы отдаете что-то по апи, люди что-то оттуда выковыривают, но единого официального источника информации нет. Сколько борта и структуры можно отчинить с учетом скиллов, модулей, стака - загадка. Что с чем стакается - загадка. Сколько парусов и команды - аналогично. Выяснять в игре какой у корабля кап на поворот, пихая в него далеко не дешевые модули, занятие не благодарное. Короче мало очень информации, как ингейм, так и на вики. Про скрытые бонусы кораблей я вообще молчу.

Снос и инерция лично мне не нравится. Да, физика, симулятор, но не нравится. Надо заканчивать заниматься с физикой (ощущение, что кому-то просто интересно) и заниматься дизайном игры (не путать с оформлением). Попытки создавать шутеры с физикой были, но все провалились, везде рельсы, так играбельнее.

 

Сумбурно конечно, но вот как-то так...

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I would like a visual indication of when the wind is changing such as a color change of the compass needle.  Slow the rate of change a little and keep the range limited to +/- 30 to 45 degrees.  We don't want to much RNG affecting our battle strategies.

For some reason it feels like there is Velcro on my hull whenever I brush another ship it really hooks on with unrealistic friction.

When beached, the Velcro hull sticks my boat to the beach no matter what the wind change.  Still cant get off beach.  Is the friction too high?

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5 hours ago, victor said:

This. Consti is a superfrigate, then it shall have a better turn rate than all the other 4th rates (which are SOLs)

Except Wapen. Wapen stays the best 4th rate turner.

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