Ship request - 2nd rate

[Destraex]

 

A Beautiful Danish Ship Called Christian VII

 

 

Christian VII (1803-1807)

 

http://threedecks.org/index.php?display_type=show_ship&id=650

 

  

 

Ship name : Christian VII

 

Launch year : 1803

 

Out of year : 1807

 

Guns : 90

 

Fate : Taken by RN at the fall of Copenhagen 1807.

 

Gun Sizes : (keel :154-7,875, 2128 bm.)e 28-36 in main deck.

 

Length (ft.) : 184-6 187-2e

 

Beam (ft.) : 48-6 50-10,5e

 

Draugth fore/aft (ft.) : 19-9/20-9 20-10(dh.)e

 

Laest (c.2 t.) : 1452,5

 

Crew : 849

 

 

-- Source http://koti.mbnet.fi/felipe/html/sol_1700-1850.html

 

 

Ship Plans in Spoiler

 

 

 

 

 

 

Christian VII (1767-1801)

 

 

 

 

http://threedecks.org/index.php?display_type=show_ship&id=654

 

 

 

Ship name : Christian den Syvende/Christian VII

 

Launch year : 1767

 

Out of year : 1801

 

Guns : 90

 

Gun Sizes : 28-36,28-18,26-12,8-6

 

Fate : Renamed Prøvesten(1799) 58 Guns  = as a blockship 1799. 28-36, 28-24, and 525 men. 40 men died, and 35 wounded in battle 1801. The ship was burnt.

 

Length (ft.) : 182

 

Beam (ft.) : 49

 

Draugth fore/aft (ft.) : 19-9/21

 

Laest (c.2 t.) : 1604 

 

Crew : 849

 

 

Ship plans in Spoiler

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

nice

[Alex Connor]

Use the plan Given by Alex

By the way, where did you find those plans? because I tried to look in the archives of The National Maritime Museum, and I didn't find anything interesting... It's really a pain to find Jean Noël Sané plans...

 

http://collections.rmg.co.uk/collections.html#!csearch;authority=subject-90352;collectionReference=subject-90352

 

Royal Museums Greenwich collection. You will find here plans for almost every British built sailing ship, and also many plans of captured ships and even plans of interesting ships belonging to allies of Britain.

 

So to find French ships search for the names of individual ships captured by Britain (open images in new tab for higher resolution), try British name or French name if these are different. You can also search by nation, French, Spanish, Danish etc. Here are some examples of Sane's ships, you can find more 

 

Pompee (Temeraire class 74)

http://collections.rmg.co.uk/collections/objects/80952.html

 

America (also Temeraire class)

http://collections.rmg.co.uk/collections/objects/80819.html

 

Amelia (Hebe class frigate)

http://collections.rmg.co.uk/collections/objects/82051.html

 

Volontaire (Hebe class, Virginie group)

http://collections.rmg.co.uk/collections/objects/81874.html

 

Achille (Annibal class 74, first of Sane's 74s and direct ancestor of Temeraire)

http://collections.rmg.co.uk/collections/objects/80594.html

 

Commerce de Marseille (Ocean class 120 gun 1st rate)

http://collections.rmg.co.uk/collections/objects/79834.html

[Ishigami]

What about the Duke Class from 1777 to 1788:

 

98 guns 2nd rate with 3 gun decks.

 

Plans are avilable at the Royal Museum Greenwich Collection

 

HMS Duke 1777

 

 

HMS Atlas 1782

 

 

HMS Glory 1788

 

 

If you can't find plans of the Bucentaure class why not simply use the predecessor the Tonnant class

 

HMS Tonnant seems avilable on http://collections.rmg.co.uk/collections.html#!cbrowse'>Royal Museum Greenwich Collection

 

[OTMatt]

 

Ship name : Christian den Syvende/Christian VII

 

Launch year : 1767

 

Out of year : 1801

 

Guns : 90

 

Gun Sizes : 28-36,28-18,26-12,8-6

 

Fate : Renamed Prøvesten(1799) 58 Guns  = as a blockship 1799. 28-36, 28-24, and 525 men. 40 men died, and 35 wounded in battle 1801. The ship was burnt.

 

Length (ft.) : 182

 

Beam (ft.) : 49

 

Draugth fore/aft (ft.) : 19-9/21

 

Laest (c.2 t.) : 1604 

 

Crew : 849

 

 

Ship plans in Spoiler

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

That painting is 1767 model? Its very pretty and gives off that 1st rate look. I'd certainly vote for that model or any other 2nd rate with 90 guns. I found listing of cannons used too and it looks like it beats out Bellonas armament by a decent margin: 28-36,28-18,26-12,8-6

[Black Dynamite]

Ship name : Christian den Syvende/Christian VII

 

Launch year : 1767

 

Out of year : 1801

 

Guns : 90

 

Gun Sizes : 28-36,28-18,26-12,8-6

 

Fate : Renamed Prøvesten(1799) 58 Guns  = as a blockship 1799. 28-36, 28-24, and 525 men. 40 men died, and 35 wounded in battle 1801. The ship was burnt.

 

Length (ft.) : 182

 

Beam (ft.) : 49

 

Draugth fore/aft (ft.) : 19-9/21

 

Laest (c.2 t.) : 1604 

 

Crew : 849

 

 

Ship plans in Spoiler

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I would vote for this as a second rate. It looks amazing and is actually a second rate unlike all the 80 gun third rates being suggested in the thread.

[Leviathan]

That is a damn good looking 2nd rate. I'm just not sure if it's generic enough for their purpose.

[Sir. Cunningham]

Let's get a Danish one guys, that would be epic

[Surcouf]

My selection for the French ships. All building plans listed below exist as well as models and sometimes paintings and prints.

L'Aurore, light frigate 1697
Le François, vessel 5th 1683
The three bridges 1680

For the period 1700/1750:

L'Amarente, corvette 12 guns
La Renommée, Frigate 8-pdr
Le Fleuron, 64-gun ship

For the period 1750/1810:
Le Coureur, lugger
Le Cerf, cutter 18 guns 6-pdr
Le Cygne, brig 16 carronades 24-pdr
Le Requin, xebeck 24 guns 8-pdr
La Belle Poule frigate 12-pdr
La Venus, frigate 18-pdr (type Sane / Bordas)
L'Égypcienne of 50 guns of 24-pdr
L'Artésien, vessel of 64 guns
74-gun ship from 1780
Le CommerceMarseille, vessel 118 guns (type Sane / Bordas)

For the period 1820/1830:
Cutter 14 carronades 12-pdr
La Toulonnaise, schooner 6 carronades 18-pdr
Le Palynure, brick 20 carronades 24-pdr
La Créole, corvette 24 carronades 30-pdr
La Didon, 60 guns frigate 30-pdr (1st rank)
Le Suffren, vessel of 90 guns of 30-pdr (3 ranks)
Le Tage, vessel 100 guns 30-pdr (2 ranks)
Le Valmy, naval guns 120 30% (1st rank)

And there are many other!

 

[Mahlitz]

That painting is 1767 model? Its very pretty and gives off that 1st rate look. I'd certainly vote for that model or any other 2nd rate with 90 guns. I found listing of cannons used too and it looks like it beats out Bellonas armament by a decent margin: 28-36,28-18,26-12,8-6

 

Yes the painting is the 1767 Model

[Balsafer]

Only swedish ship around the 1700 that is a 2nd rate that i found is 

• 1704-1797 Prins Carl Fredrik, 64-72 gun, 2nd rate ship.

The Drottning Ulrika Eleonora

 

Laid down 1709

Shipyard Karlskrona

constructor Charles Sheldon

Category 2nd rate

 

1719 Armament

Lower Gun Deck 26 Swedish 24-Pounder Middle Gun Deck 24 Swedish 18-Pounder Upper Gun Deck 26 Swedish 8-Pounder Quarterdeck/Forecastle 8 Swedish 4-Pounder

 

 

http://threedecks.org/index.php?display_type=show_ship&id=10857

 

 

Not sure on accuracy of the site and like most ships its hard to find pictures of it.

[Destraex]

72 guns is not second rate under the british system

[Naval Action fan]

How about hms prince?

[Mirones]

hms prince if you are talking about the same prince that think of who fought at trafalgar then nope thats an First rate

[Mirones]

72 guns is not second rate under the british system

look closer not sure if he quoted something wrong or not but the link talks about a swedish 3 decker with 86guns

[Lord Hood]

HMS Barfleur should definitely be added as a second rate ship of the line. She was arguably the most battle tested warship of the era with regards to the second rate ship of the line. Initially she was a 90 gun warship and then increased to 98 guns. She was designed along the lines of HMS Royal William, also there is a post with blueprints within the shipyard forums.

[Edward Harvey]

I think we should atleast decide on that it should be french vessel.

[Lord Hood]

Why can't both be done? The French seconds generally consisted of 80 guns. The French I would say have more right to having a first rate in place than a second. There is a plethora of French first rates to choose from however none have been implemented.

[Surcouf]

Depending on the period, rankings ships have changed.

 

For example, for the following two periods:

 

In 1780, we are not talking of rank (rate?), But the number of guns for vessels and pounder for others (frigate, corvette, brig) :

 

74-gun ship (= 3rd rank)
80-gun ship (= 2nd rank)

110-gun ship (1st rank)

 

8-pdr frigate (= 3rd rank)
12-pdr frigate (= 2nd rank)
18-pdr frigate (= 1st rank)

 

Corvette 6-pdr

Brig 4 or 6-pdr

 

In 1824 (Commission de Paris), we speak of rank :

 

No longer exists (Ship 5th rank = 74-gun)
Vessel 4th rank = 80-gun (ex-74-gun)
Vessel 3rd rank = 90-gun
Vessel 2e rank = 100-gun
Vessel 1st rank = 120-gun

 

 Frigate 3rd rank = 46-gun
 Frigate 2nd rank = 52-gun

 Frigate 1st rank = 60-gun

 

 Corvette-sloop 2nd rank = 18-gun
 Corvette 1st rank = 24-gun

 

 Brig-sloop = 14-gun
 Grand brig = 20-gun

[max_86]

The 1767 Christian VII is really nice!

[Mahlitz]

The 1767 Christian VII is really nice!

Click like on it !

[OTMatt]

Yeah, it looks better than St. Pavel at the least. I hope its generic enough to be considered.

[Mahlitz]

Yeah, it looks better than St. Pavel at the least. I hope its generic enough to be considered.

Yeah, and on top of that it would make a very attractive goal for a Dane like me, who cares about being captain on the Vicky when you can have something homemade like Christian VII ! makes my proud to be a dane when looking at the beauty of the ship

[thomas aagaard]

adding "Christian den syvende"(1767) would be great. A fantastic looking ship, with good sources.

If it is too special for a more genetic ship, I do think it would be possible to simply change/limit the decorations to make it more genetic.

 

 

"Frederik/Friderich den Femte"

Just another a more or less random suggestion of a danish 90 gun ship. (with 36pounder in the main battery)
As "Mahlitz" pointed out, Lots of other drawings can be found on http://www.orlogsbasen.dk and they exist at the national archives. So it should be possible to get a scan/picture in a proper size.

[Balsafer]

look closer not sure if he quoted something wrong or not but the link talks about a swedish 3 decker with 86guns

 

The first ship I mentioned was a 72 gun 2nd rate, but he mentioned under the British system... Well last I looked it was not a British ship it is Swedish 

[Mirones]

´the british system is the most common thats why