Christendom Posted December 30, 2017 Share Posted December 30, 2017 (edited) Had a PB tonight against the brits. It turned into a Russian beach party. I can appreciate the inclusion of leeyway into the game, but to be honest it's not really that enjoyable. Edited December 30, 2017 by Christendom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
staun Posted December 30, 2017 Share Posted December 30, 2017 9 minutes ago, Christendom said: Had a PB tonight against the brits. It turned into a Russian beach party. I can appreciate the inclusion of leeyway into the game, but to be honest it's not really that enjoyable. To that we agree. Realisme is fine, But it should never be more important than the gameplay. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sir Texas Sir Posted December 30, 2017 Share Posted December 30, 2017 Told you let me bring a mortar brig, just let them all beach them selves and I'll rain on them...lol 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
staun Posted December 30, 2017 Share Posted December 30, 2017 Ore maby safe the last br for a trader lynx, that can be called to the battle, when all ells lay at the shore. Then it can cab the cirkles. what a great story to tell future players. The old days when a lynx was the most important ship in the game🤔 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
staun Posted December 30, 2017 Share Posted December 30, 2017 But this could be that we see fewer Wasa and first rates in pb. As i recalled they had the most leeyway. So devs succeded in that. They didn’t have to change to pvp marks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cmdr RideZ Posted December 30, 2017 Share Posted December 30, 2017 2 hours ago, Christendom said: Had a PB tonight against the brits. It turned into a Russian beach party. I can appreciate the inclusion of leeyway into the game, but to be honest it's not really that enjoyable. It can be that we have to just learn to sail differently. You had plenty of time to turn before you ended up to that beach party. Leeway is new, you did not know what happens and so did not sail as required in the new system. The next time you know and will be ok, maybe even enjoyable. On that video you basically run with the wind to ashore. You gave up from the wind completely there. In the old system you could have left that place with ease. In the new system you should have altered your course way sooner. Ships that don't suffer that much from leeway can basically lure big and nasty 2nd rates to ashore. I think this might be really nice addition. Creates more room for small ships. Maybe some port battles are won because of wind conditions? 1st rates wont be able to sail to location X or will have a beach party. So a clever admiral finds a better sailer for the task this time. New guys who don't know how to tack nor understand leeway, it can be that they definitely should not sail SOLs. They should probably half all magic bonuses/penalties from books/upgrades. Leeway is something that players can actually learn. I like it. This will affect so many things that combat balance can well be changed now. I understood that some values will be still tuned. No worries. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chewee Posted December 30, 2017 Share Posted December 30, 2017 (edited) Hello, Good job on the physics of navigation.But now several new problems are coming up with it.We absolutely need:A functional anchor.A random wind force system; a wind of 6knt, can become 10knt force.A system of placement of our goods in cargo ...( to balance the ship physic/mass )(if not balanced, risk of capsizing)We need barrels of powder, and the balls in cargo (with their weight acting on the mass of the ship ect .. As for the merchants)It takes a real physics of the waves, as for rogue waves, a bad wave can twist a ship, or break it in two.We need:The sextant + real sky map night , or jsut a system to put sextant key, and auto calcul the position in the sea.A rule of tracing (to trace our roads)A square, and a compas to become the circles and distances in addition to the compass wind.A map dating from the 18th century.A map of the currents (flow) marine ..A map of reefsLighthouses.A new target system, remove this red bar that makes no sense.And give us a system by degree of elevation. knowing that the guns always project the balls at the same speed +/-, remove the projection of the line of sight.The possibility of having a lookout in the mast, or front stern " house ", at least a camera view from these positions.A captain .... to have the pleasure of walking on the deck of our ship ... Good job. Cordialy Dont forget UI please Ui design...And when we will see officer, as in NA legend ?? Edited December 30, 2017 by Chewee 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stilgar Posted December 30, 2017 Share Posted December 30, 2017 (edited) On 12/29/2017 at 8:43 AM, Anolytic said: I'll give leeway some chance to be balanced. Some ships now feel and look like they're not even touching the water. The keel touches nothing and the water gives no resistance. Naval Action: Tokyo Drift edition. Same impression and concern: just too much gliding, even for long ships like aggie effect is (too) prominent. Intuitively the leeway drift effect should fall faster with lowering sails. Edited December 30, 2017 by Stilgar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Farrago Posted December 30, 2017 Share Posted December 30, 2017 It is going to take some time to learn how this all works on various ships but I like it. (Of course I haven't been stuck on the beach yet; my opinion may change. Lol) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eyesore Posted December 30, 2017 Share Posted December 30, 2017 5 hours ago, Christendom said: Had a PB tonight against the brits. It turned into a Russian beach party. I can appreciate the inclusion of leeyway into the game, but to be honest it's not really that enjoyable. I'm sorry, but you sailed directly into land ... then complain that you can't get back? It is (hopefully) no longer going to be a simple rush to finish off the other ships because yours is 'bigger'? Perhaps finally sailingskill becomes somewhat important? 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Archaos Posted December 30, 2017 Share Posted December 30, 2017 5 hours ago, Christendom said: Had a PB tonight against the brits. It turned into a Russian beach party. I can appreciate the inclusion of leeyway into the game, but to be honest it's not really that enjoyable. I do not think you can blame leeway for what happened. Most of the time you had the wind behind you and there was little leeway. You steered towards the shore and continued steering towards the shore in order to capture or kill your targets. The leeway did not really come into play until you were aground and tried to get off which meant you had to have the wind on your starboard side which meant you couldnt get off the beach. I think people just need to realize sooner what is going to happen if they sail too close to the coast. You had plenty of time to avoid that situation and in fact I think it may have been part of your plan to drive the defenders onto the beach as no attempt was made to avoid it when it was clear the situation was developing. Personally I think you should take damage over time if you are on the rocks and eventually sink if you cannot get off. Maybe then people would be more cautious around the rocks. 8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hethwill Posted December 30, 2017 Share Posted December 30, 2017 2 hours ago, Stilgar said: Intuitively the leeway drift effect should fall faster with lowering sails. I almost can say that it does but could only test it as much. Will continue today. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hethwill Posted December 30, 2017 Share Posted December 30, 2017 12 hours ago, maturin said: Leeway is more analogous to altitude lost by a glider. Leeshore being the farm xD Having my bird thrown off by side winds affecting my yaw and roll is real ( let alone that it can be of varied intensities at altitudes), the final position will be off if no ahead planning is done. Pretty much the same although ships is rather more complicated. It is air and water together affecting the subject. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maturin Posted December 30, 2017 Share Posted December 30, 2017 4 hours ago, Stilgar said: Intuitively the leeway drift effect should fall faster with lowering sails. If you lower sails, you will just make leeway due to the windage of the rig and hull. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhiskeyTangoFoxtrot Posted December 30, 2017 Share Posted December 30, 2017 sooo... the start to every battle now, wind is always blowing towards land?? Any chance of "windward" effect in battles? If you want a more "realistic" aspect to battles, you need to incorporate the wind gauge to move with the time of day as in the OW. Then there will be a need to "forecast" what the wind direction will be at a given time & day for that port in question. Then that will be "fair" because work went into that battle forecast. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hethwill Posted December 30, 2017 Share Posted December 30, 2017 12 minutes ago, WhiskeyTangoFoxtrot said: sooo... the start to every battle now, wind is always blowing towards land?? No. It blows where it blows. Both onshore and offshore winds can be had and depends on the instance tag. Fellows may have the leeward and shoot rigging but at a point the come back upwind becomes complicated if separation is too much. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christendom Posted December 30, 2017 Share Posted December 30, 2017 7 hours ago, Cmdr RideZ said: It can be that we have to just learn to sail differently. You had plenty of time to turn before you ended up to that beach party. Leeway is new, you did not know what happens and so did not sail as required in the new system. The next time you know and will be ok, maybe even enjoyable. On that video you basically run with the wind to ashore. You gave up from the wind completely there. In the old system you could have left that place with ease. In the new system you should have altered your course way sooner. Ships that don't suffer that much from leeway can basically lure big and nasty 2nd rates to ashore. I think this might be really nice addition. Creates more room for small ships. Maybe some port battles are won because of wind conditions? 1st rates wont be able to sail to location X or will have a beach party. So a clever admiral finds a better sailer for the task this time. New guys who don't know how to tack nor understand leeway, it can be that they definitely should not sail SOLs. They should probably half all magic bonuses/penalties from books/upgrades. Leeway is something that players can actually learn. I like it. This will affect so many things that combat balance can well be changed now. I understood that some values will be still tuned. No worries. Oh I knew what I was doing there, we commented on TS that there was going to be no way out. Once one of the 1st rates committed into going to the beach, we had to go follow. I'm not sure the brits in that battle were fully aware of how much they were getting pushed to the shore. Anyway, I understand what happened and why there was no way out. I just prefer the old system better. Realism does not always translate into fun. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhiskeyTangoFoxtrot Posted December 30, 2017 Share Posted December 30, 2017 44 minutes ago, Hethwill said: No. It blows where it blows. Both onshore and offshore winds can be had and depends on the instance tag. Fellows may have the leeward and shoot rigging but at a point the come back upwind becomes complicated if separation is too much. thanks @Hethwill i haven't had the chance to attend any PB's as of this patch. good to know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maturin Posted December 30, 2017 Share Posted December 30, 2017 1 hour ago, Christendom said: Anyway, I understand what happened and why there was no way out. I just prefer the old system better. Realism does not always translate into fun. You haven't learned to play yet. Give it a few PBs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maturin Posted December 30, 2017 Share Posted December 30, 2017 47 minutes ago, Wraith said: I believe @Christendom and the rest of us have learned to play just fine: they were playing to win, which they did. Winning is the point (given the ridiculous victory mark system and the need to take 1st rates out of play). But winning doesn't make the mechanics fun, which is what he's arguing. Well maybe it was the other team that hasn't learned how to fight port battles yet. What do expect when you play bumper cars on the beach with battleships? The only thing that's missing is fireships to burn them once they're aground. Are you saying that people aren't going to change tactics to account for changes made to gameplay? The new "meta" is 'ships are supposed to float.' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christendom Posted December 31, 2017 Share Posted December 31, 2017 Basically what it's like sailing a shallow ship right now Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jodgi Posted December 31, 2017 Share Posted December 31, 2017 4 hours ago, Wraith said: world where wind circles around like clockwork with no variability (except in battle instances where it magically stops, combined yet again with a different behavior in port battles...) now hurts the strategic game play we've come to appreciate I sympathize with this bit. I tentatively think changing wind in instances is more bad than good. I'm surprised with you not liking leeway, though. Feed me with a teaspoon: Why is it bad? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maturin Posted December 31, 2017 Share Posted December 31, 2017 Yeah, I'm fine if the battle wind veers around in the same 30 degree arc or something. But major wind changes (e.g., 90 to 135) should be rare. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christendom Posted December 31, 2017 Share Posted December 31, 2017 4 hours ago, jodgi said: I sympathize with this bit. I tentatively think changing wind in instances is more bad than good. I'm surprised with you not liking leeway, though. Feed me with a teaspoon: Why is it bad? it's not realistic. It feels like the ships have no keels at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maturin Posted December 31, 2017 Share Posted December 31, 2017 23 minutes ago, Christendom said: it's not realistic. It feels like the ships have no keels at all. Ever looked at the keel of a first rate? Leeway is probably exaggerated in this patch, but I can't measure it, so I'm not really sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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