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Patch 14: Part 2 experimental patch increasing realism in ship behavior

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I do not enjoy sailing around in OW hunting new players in under crewed Snow's. And because I need 50 PvP marks to get 1 victory mark, I have no other option than to I kill what ever I find..  But sinking low level players makes me feel bad! Not to mention it might be the last straw that makes the unlucky new player quit the game. So to push/force this kind of behavior is not good for the game. Most of the veterans stay in the safe zones attacking AI fleets and they only sail out in force when they have the BR advantage and your sitting right outside their port.

If this is the direction this game is taking the low ranked players need more help asap! Reinforcement should be easier to enable. Like huge red letters in the middle of the screen saying "Press [a single key button] to call reinforcements. There are so many of the new players that do not know that they need to press [Ctrl] to get the mouse and then click on the reinforcement button. The lower level missions should spawn within the safe sone where the battle instant closes. Just make it easy they are newbies!
And then remove the possibility of attacking AI fleets in the safe zone. Just to force the players that just sit at the port entrance out of the safe zone and in to OW..

I personally think it should be possible to convert combat marks into victory marks. Just make it very expensive, like 1000 : 1 or even 2500 : 1.

Edited by Tiedemann
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On 24.12.2017 at 2:22 AM, vazco said:

I won't do this. Reporting those two won't fix anything, there are probably dozen others. Rules are wrong, since they force and allow for people to do this. Rules should be changed to fix this. 

we reset progress for at least 11 players based on reports. 

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4 minutes ago, admin said:

we reset progress for at least 11 players based on reports. 

But those who not get reported will profit...

 

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1 hour ago, Tiedemann said:

I do not enjoy sailing around in OW hunting new players in under crewed Snow's. And because I need 50 PvP marks to get 1 victory mark, I have no other option than to I kill what ever I find..  But sinking low level players makes me feel bad! Not to mention it might be the last straw that makes the unlucky new player quit the game. So to push/force this kind of behavior is not good for the game. Most of the veterans stay in the safe zones attacking AI fleets and they only sail out in force when they have the BR advantage and your sitting right outside their port.

If this is the direction this game is taking the low ranked players need more help asap! Reinforcement should be easier to enable. Like huge red letters in the middle of the screen saying "Press [a single key button] to call reinforcements. There are so many of the new players that do not know that they need to press [Ctrl] to get the mouse and then click on the reinforcement button. The lower level missions should spawn within the safe sone where the battle instant closes. Just make it easy they are newbies!
And then remove the possibility of attacking AI fleets in the safe zone. Just to force the players that just sit at the port entrance out of the safe zone and in to OW..

I personally think it should be possible to convert combat marks into victory marks. Just make it very expensive, like 1000 : 1 or even 2500 : 1.

Why however should veterans get the luxury of of a reinforcement zone? Do I need one? No,Do you need one?

These should only be for new players and new players only.

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On 2017-12-23 at 11:12 AM, boom said:

The only problem with the progression is how steep the ladder is.  This is not a casual player game - the combo books, and very powerful mods (now also ships) create a big advantage.  Any new player needs to accept that they are fodder for approximately 6 months of dedicated game play.

This alone will cause the population of the game to decline over time - vets burn out, new players get discouraged. It simply needs to be easier to climb this ladder, nations that are weaker need underdog bonuses.

How about giving PvP marks for pvping not just winning? Even if you lost, why not give the loser a few PvP marks too? They took the risk, they fought, lost their ship, surely their effort should be encouraged and rewarded.

Also, why not discourage ganking lowbies by denying rewards for attacking much lower BR/rank targets? (trader ships excluded). @admin just relax a little bit - it is a game and it needs to be fun most of all, not an exhausting grind that severely punishes every mistake.

I agree with this post so much. Today the focus of the game is the oldtime players and the top nations and the focus needs to be the opposite. How do you attract new players and not top rakning players. And how do you make lower ranked nations keep fighting?

Pvp marks for winner and loosers in battles is one such simple solution.

And lower rewards when you gank lower br ships.

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28 minutes ago, Tac said:

Why however should veterans get the luxury of of a reinforcement zone? Do I need one? No,Do you need one?

These should only be for new players and new players only.

I dont agree. In my opinion even on PvP server should be safe place for every player. PvP should be an option in which you want take part. There are moments when player doesnt want to take part in PvP because he doesnt have much time or something like that and he is interest in for example one mission. Safe Zones are ok, but they are implemented in wrong way. As i think there should be one safe zone for whole server in which you can do simply trading (basic materials should be inside this safe zone) or do missions to get a proper rank/ship knowlege (and these missions shouldnt be awarded like now they are). Then if you would be interest in better ships you should leave this safe zone, because better materials would be further from safe zone. But right now it is impossible because we got nations, and word "clan" in "clan based conquest" is a hidden "nation".

Edited by Mikocen

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I went away from the game for a year. And im back again. I do well. I am a member of a good pvping clan. But even for me some things look hard. Almost noone tries to capture a ship these days without having the highest book of... (whatever it is called). I used to be goid at capturing but will have to wait some months to get it. 

And i play a lot. Few have the time i have to play the game.

It is ok as it is for me. But i am worried about the STEEP leatning curve and lack of content for new players. That needs to be adressed one way or the other.

The community can do much on its own. But to help new and low level players takes time.

Perhaps we can do as Escape from Tarkov. We can have some people that are aiding new players in every nation. Sherpas. They get some kind of award for that. 

http://forum.escapefromtarkov.com/forum/87-sherpa/

The guide them in ai fights and they join them in pvp and guide them in portbattles (pbs for players below a rank could be an option, but  the amount of alts might complicate things).

 

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I get on the game to help my guild by crafting, and I sail out to take out some AI ships.  I find it relaxing.  I don't mind the grind because it gives me end goals.  This is not my primary game and I don't usually play for more than an hour when I do.  I'm a casual guy.  That being said, I do want the goodies the other players have. The big boats, upgrades and stuff.  Not because I want to kick some other player's butt, but because I like to wreck AI.  Yeah, I'm a little lazy, but I ran a guild last year.  I PVP'ed.  I had all the blueprints.  I made boats and helped guildies and helped new guys learn the game.  That's the stuff I enjoy.  

You admins understand that people play for different reasons, right?  But you're BLOCKING content for those who don't do what you want them to do.  That's not a way to maintain your playerbase.  Some folks like to trade.  Sail around and trade.  That's all they do.  They get rich.  They buy stuff.  Whatever.  That's what they do.  They are also necessary for guilds to be economically viable.  What do I tell them when they come to me for a big ship?  "Oh, I'm sorry.  I don't have any victory marks to get the blueprint.  Do you?"  "Well, no, I'm a trader.  You're a crafter and I'm a trader.  I guess we don't count.  Let's to find another game."  "Okay."  

That's what is happening.  You know what would get me out sailing in dangerous waters?  Searching for uncharted islands.  I like the idea of exploration.  Making first contact with indigenous folks.  Finding lost cities of gold or pirate's booty.  But to go out and fight a bunch of other players?  Not worth the stress.  Been there, done that.  Not for me.  

So, Admins.  Do you want us crafters and traders to go away?  Leave it to the PVPers?  

I am asking a serious question.  You are FORCING people to play the game YOUR way if they want to collect all the cool ships and upgrades.  But if we don't ENJOY that part of the game, the rewards aren't worth the trouble.  Is that what you want?  

I think I'll take a break from the game until you either allow me to trade combat marks for victory marks again, because right now I'm afraid to bring out my favorite ships knowing I may never be able to replace them if they sink or are captured.  Yeah.  Notice how I'm on the forums and not in the game?  Yeah.  I'm checking each day to see when you'll change your mind.  Eventually I'll forget to check, and then, eventually, I'll forget about the game.  I'm not alone in those feelings.  I just couldn't convince them to AT LEAST log into the forums to talk.  They just said: f*ck it.  When the devs fix the game, tell me, and I'll play some more.

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You success to make me change my vote on Steam angry five you a bad review and that after 2500 hours playing.

My good motivation survives fine wood, survive high prices crew it even survive the disparition of flag (when you really kill rvr).

But enough is enough. I will note make people join a game taking this direction that will 'ever let them join the end games.

Naval action always get a snowboal effect but for whatever reader you have you are making it bigger and bigger after each map.

I'm seriously considering you want to kill your game to focus on naval action legends and let people on this game slowly decrease to be able to close/get a small server instead of focusing on us.

If we are alpha tester on naval action, you get the average opinion.

Focus on what need is needed to focus on and stop destroying the few things working

If we are holding tester of naval action legends to gives you data on battle to improve them, just tell us that officially and we will stop complain on your choices.

 

PS my clan own 12 ports and pay far more to keep them that it gives us money. We barely stop to captures ports due of money.

How should a small nation compete in rvr if their major clans are forces to stop rvr due of money?

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49 minutes ago, BallsOfSteel said:

So ex global players get nothing as we cant get into pb's not set in our timezone :)

 

We have to pay money for the defence timer, so a lot of ports have no timer and can be attacked almost 24/7. Except for right before and during maintenance. Also some EU clans have already started setting late/early defence timers. So if you don't mind a little voyage, you are guaranteed to find a port to attack. 

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Costs of PVP rewards:
Wasa Note  - 30 PM
Surprise Note -15 PM
PFrigate Note - 15 PM
L'Hermion Note - 15 PM
LGV Refit Note - 25 PM
Constitution Note - 25PM
Bellona Note - 30 PM
Navy Structure Refit - 10 PM
Navy Orlop Refit - 10 PM
Navy Mast Treatment Note - 10 PM
Navy Mast Band Note - 10 PM
Navy Hull Refit - 10 PM
Navy Gun Tackles - 10 PM

Marks and blueprint :
Victory Marks - 50 PM

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Now now... Whats the logic of bringing Wasa back down to 30 PvP marks, without changing anything about its performance.

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21 hours ago, Borch said:

 

Looks like you're giving up finnaly. It seems that there wont be more content added and youre focusing on things you have now. 

Here is what happened Captains
Player makes up a false assumption, gets irritated with his false assumption, start spreading it as being true, turning himself into a hater (with no actual reasons). This happens a lot on the internetz. We learnt to ignore this.  

You are incorrect and should avoid making statements that have no factual proof. 
We can easily disprove it by just showing our work. We of course understand that maybe you want something else. But we will focus on things that we want: Making rvr and pvp matter more or improving the sailing model or adding new ships. 

Like this Danish beauty

Q2KpYkd.jpg

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6 minutes ago, admin said:

Here is what happened Captains
Player makes up a false assumption, gets irritated with his false assumption, start spreading it as being true, turning himself into a hater (with no actual reasons). This happens a lot on the internetz. We learnt to ignore this.  

You are incorrect and should avoid making statements that have no factual proof. 
We can easily disprove it by just showing our work. We of course understand that maybe you want something else. But we will focus on things that we want: Making rvr and pvp matter more or improving the sailing model or adding new ships. 

Like this Danish beauty

Q2KpYkd.jpg

Why have you made the wasa cheaper again? Can you genuinely not see that it is game breaking? You need to either address it's overpowered nature or remove it altogether. 

Is this new ship here going to be the wasa of the 1st rates or are you actually going to have to earn this one? Or is it going to be yet another overpowered ship that presents zero risk or loss to the captain who sails it?

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Update has been deployed today - 26th December

  • Removed victory mark requirements in blueprint and permit acquisitions for all ships except for first rates
  • Reduced prices for PvP content in pvp marks because previously the catered to top pvp players but not the average players (it should be better now)
  • Fixed an important bug with bot reload getting stuck from time to time
  • Increased cool down and time to recover crew on the surgeon - surgeon was working too fast and too often during battles and it had to be nerfed.

Final changes for ship physics including leeway and adaptation of all light ships is being prepared. 
New year gifts will be distributed with the forthcoming patch (part 3 of sailing model improvements)

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10 minutes ago, admin said:

Here is what happened Captains
Player makes up a false assumption, gets irritated with his false assumption, start spreading it as being true, turning himself into a hater (with no actual reasons). This happens a lot on the internetz. We learnt to ignore this.  

You are incorrect and should avoid making statements that have no factual proof. 
We can easily disprove it by just showing our work. We of course understand that maybe you want something else. But we will focus on things that we want: Making rvr and pvp matter more or improving the sailing model or adding new ships. 

Like this Danish beauty

Q2KpYkd.jpg

Can we expect front chasers on St Pavel and Bucentaure too? Or will this ship's new front chasers be balanced out by something else? 

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2 minutes ago, admin said:

Update has been deployed today - 26th December

  • Removed victory mark requirements in blueprint and permit acquisitions for all ships except for first rates
  • Reduced prices for PvP content in pvp marks because previously the catered to top pvp players but not the average players (it should be better now)
  • Fixed an important bug with bot reload getting stuck from time to time
  • Increased cool down and time to recover crew on the surgeon - surgeon was working too fast and too often during battles and it had to be nerfed.

Final changes for ship physics including leeway and adaptation of all light ships is being prepared. 
New year gifts will be distributed with the forthcoming patch (part 3 of sailing model improvements)

You forgot about the Ingermanland as it still needs a Victory Mark for the Blueprint unless you made it into a 1st rate instead :)

But its a nice looking ship and most of us like more content. Are there any plans of making a new roadmap for 2018 so that we can see what is in the pipeline, and ofc moan about it ?

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1 minute ago, admin said:

Update has been deployed today - 26th December

  • Removed victory mark requirements in blueprint and permit acquisitions for all ships except for first rates
  • Reduced prices for PvP content in pvp marks because previously the catered to top pvp players but not the average players (it should be better now)
  • Fixed an important bug with bot reload getting stuck from time to time
  • Increased cool down and time to recover crew on the surgeon - surgeon was working too fast and too often during battles and it had to be nerfed.

Final changes for ship physics including leeway and adaptation of all light ships is being prepared. 
New year gifts will be distributed with the forthcoming patch (part 3 of sailing model improvements)

@admin, wait,  so you actually care about our input so long as they're rational and well argued?
And here I thought I was "pissing in the wind". Damn, @admin, you're playing with our frail frail hearts.

On a more serious note, are there any plans to balance the wasa's performance? or is its price enough of a balancing factor?

 

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Well, I do need more and more time reading patch notes too keep up, and less time to play. I don't think this patch will change anything. Those at top will still be at top and those a buttom will be where they always has been.

I am in a small nation. The Danish. Yep we cant fight the big ones(and win). But do think partly it is Oure one fault. Just need to get better on working together. And make content for the players. But to make the big ships hard to come by, well that dosen't help. I think the biggest problem for small nation is:

1. Because of the few players in the nation, they cant fight many pb a day, and they *can't find players for the pb with high br. 

2. Because the small nations are affraid of getting one port by the big ones, they just stay away from RvR.(And actually I do think the big RvR, have showen great restraint. They do know in the long run, they dont win anything by killing of a nation.(we just loose the players, ore end up with 2-3 nations)

But this is a war game and the best should be the best. But not because the devs help them stay at the top, witch they imo do now, with the conquest lader. I do think they should make it easier for the smal nations and harder for the top nations, but not they way the do it now. Not with vm marks ore limit the ships avaiable. Her is my surgestion.

1: The numbers of pb's, that you cant get a day, is depending on how many ports you hold. The more ports the more fights you may get. 10-1, dont know the number. But her I only think defensive pb against you. 

2.: A number of the of the first ports a nation get, will have a small Br.(lets say the first five, ore they can choose what br they want.), why that?Simply enough, as it is now you may have port with high br in your area(This can be a problem for a small), And for a nation to function proberly, you cant have the ports spread all over the map.

3: All citys with rear item should have a high BR. I know it dosen't help the smal once. But the fight for the best ports should be fierce. So if a small nation choose one of those citys as there first one. Well then they just have to man up and fight.

4: The center of the map, should have a high br on its ports. Maby from 4800(ore maby even higher start point) and up. You want to be there, well get your big boys pants on.

5. Need to get a more balanced br on ships and upgrades.

This could be one way, that will help the small nations, but still let the top dogs be the best. On the other hand we can just make this a war game. You survive ore you dont. Maby it is because of the limits ppl have left the game. 

Edited by staun
*

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Okay, you want to improve RvR and PvP interaction. Thats fine, thats great. You can't do that however by blocking out content. First rates were already extremely expensive ships, especially when fitted with NECESSARY port battle upgrades. Making them extremely hard to get won't improve RvR, it will significantly reduce its frequency. The Top three nations will dominate, and the rest will barely be able to defend themselves against attack. 

This last patch was a step in the right direction, at least the Vic marks are a more reasonable price now. However thats not the main problem, the main problem is how Vic marks are distributed and awarded. This system needs fixing or RvR is going to be dead. 

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8 minutes ago, Borch said:

Look, I'm far away from being a hater without reason. Like I said in my post you quoted, "thank you" for trying. Now, I also have pointed out plenty of things that will make your patch not work. The only thjing you are interested here though is spreading false statements. How making a new ship is prooving anything? Ships are great, ships are needed, but ships without content are not a content for long.

Again, with the recent changes you promote empty port taking from the strongest. You want people in whole nation to work for the opportunity to sail the best ships ( 1 clan alone wont do). Its actually easier to move your clan to strongest nation than to fight in current example Prussia or Commonwealth. In order to do that I would have to play with people I dont like (for example that sorry a** dude who liked to tell his clanmates to shut the f**k up). How do you want that to be plesant experience after whole working day?

On top of that this gamepley is just rinse and repeat. Take some territory, spread too much, become to weak to protect all ports so smaller nations can grab some land and advance on the leaderboard. How long can people whitstand that?

Where in all of this is place for casual,solo players? Traders, crafters and casual PvP'ers who would like to hunt for smaller targets instead fighting aroud colored dots? Are you going to make 1 dimensional game for only handfull of players? I assure you that it wont work if you wont have a proper playerbase.

Finnaly please proof me wrong with my last statement by showing us new content (but not ships), where I can use your beautifull new Christian as that what we have in game is not enough for this game to survive in the long term.

Again, I'm not hater. I do reality checks from time to time though. So should you.

Wouldn't the nature of an sandbox game like this be "create your own fun" with what you've got? I think the Devs is trying to encourage the changes of port ownerships, but given the 500+ population we might not see enough variety. I am more in favour of not choking out certain subgroup of the population like the casual players, you can't expect everyone to always want to rush out and do PvP all the time, but if they're just doing PvE only, then their experience on a PvP server would be hampered by that. And the economy would not be so effected by a single small group of players. But that requires bigger population, and so the Devs focused on balancing ships, and creating new ships. @admin have you thought of increasing the frequency of sunken fleet appearing? Like the supply drop in the division? And perhaps, starts off with a giant circle that shows where the fleets will be, and every time interval ( let's say 30mins) the circle shrinks and at the last interval, only the map square where the fleets will appear is highlighted. This would give players more activities and PvP. The only issue is we might see large groups chasing the lone players off. Yet, if multiple of this shows up, says one up between Bermuda and Charleston, another between Cartagena and Kingston and a 3rd elsewhere, a lone player might find himself/herself lucky in finding one without large enemy fleets or being closer than the enemy fleets? 

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