Patch 14: Part 2 experimental patch increasing realism in ship behavior

[Raf Van Boom]

The only problem with the progression is how steep the ladder is.  This is not a casual player game - the combo books, and very powerful mods (now also ships) create a big advantage.  Any new player needs to accept that they are fodder for approximately 6 months of dedicated game play.

This alone will cause the population of the game to decline over time - vets burn out, new players get discouraged. It simply needs to be easier to climb this ladder, nations that are weaker need underdog bonuses.

How about giving PvP marks for pvping not just winning? Even if you lost, why not give the loser a few PvP marks too? They took the risk, they fought, lost their ship, surely their effort should be encouraged and rewarded.

Also, why not discourage ganking lowbies by denying rewards for attacking much lower BR/rank targets? (trader ships excluded). @admin just relax a little bit - it is a game and it needs to be fun most of all, not an exhausting grind that severely punishes every mistake.

Edited December 23, 2017 by boom

[Quineloe]

2 minutes ago, boom said:

How about giving PvP marks for pvping not just winning? Even if you lost, why not give the loser a few PvP marks too? They took the risk, they fought, lost their ship, surely their effort should be encouraged and rewarded.

I'm still waiting for Admin to explain why in his game Naval Action Legends losers get rewarded for losing when their ship gets replaced for pretty much free, but in this game losing a ship means an hour of replacing everything until you're ready again, and you get absolutely no reward.

[DustyTrashenborough]

4 minutes ago, boom said:

The only problem with the progression is how steep the ladder is.  This is not a casual player game - the combo books, and very powerful mods (now also ships) create a big advantage.  Any new player needs to accept that they are fodder for approximately 6 months of dedicated game play.

This alone will cause the population of the game to decline over time - vets burn out, new players get discouraged. It simply needs to be easier to climb this ladder, nations that are weaker need underdog bonuses.

How about giving PvP marks for pvping not just winning? Even if you lost, why not give the loser a few PvP marks too? They took the risk, they fought, lost their ship, surely their effort should be encouraged and rewarded.

That would encourage more players to do honest to goodness pvp. Even if they only have small or not fully unlocked ships, they will still see the benefit of having a go. Some will argue that it would lead to more discreet farming, but if the ratio of pvp to damage is balance right, there would be no point in trying to farm.

[Anolytic]

10 minutes ago, Donjuan Dimarco said:

Dear Devs,

think of your random players.

Cheers Don

Indeed. Forcing everyone into RvR is forcing everyone into something that requires a hardcore playstyle. This game risks loosing every casual player, those who mainly do econ, and anyone who doesn't have time or motivation to sink endless hours into the game. Right now sailing 1st rates around is a blinking star in front of every new player, motivating them to grind and cross all the hurdles that the game presents. Moving all 1st rates into what will seem like the land of impossibility will discourage many players from even trying.

And why do I say RvR is a hardcore playstyle?

This is only my main, and I have 7 accounts...

They say it takes 10 000 hours to become really good at something, and I'm still not any good  

Last time we tried restricted access to 1st rates I got messages on Steam from multiple people every week regularly asking me if devs had come to their senses and brought Lineships back for normal players yet. Only when I could finally tell them that, yes, Lineships were back, did they start playing again. That was only quite recently.

Just now, Quineloe said:

Why would 2nd rates and 1st rates both require a victory mark? no one would ever build second rates ever again.

Inb4 1st rates will cost 2 Victory marks.

[DustyTrashenborough]

2 minutes ago, rediii said:

I dont even have 2000 hours. I didnt sven have 300 hours when I got into RvR. RvR is not as hardcore as you play it.

Making 1st rates harder to get is just making them worth more which means players find them even more great if they see one.

What about those players that want to engage in PvP and was a fan of ship-of-the-line engagements? players who's been to the HMS victory museum and decided, you know what now that I have Naval action, I want to do pvp and hopefully sail a victory one day?

[Anolytic]

6 minutes ago, rediii said:

I dont even have 2000 hours. I didnt sven have 300 hours when I got into RvR. RvR is not as hardcore as you play it.

Making 1st rates harder to get is just making them worth more which means players find them even more great if they see one.

RvR is hardcore if you always try to keep up or catch up with the biggest nations, which is what devs is saying that players in other nations should do. Sweden always allied with the biggest nations until all the good clans became inactive and Sweden as the last remaining force became the biggest themselves. 

You're right it doesn't have to be hardcore. We could all just join Sweden.

MARKS clan is recruiting.

[victor]

4 minutes ago, rediii said:

They can at a tuned version of this.

Test it first hoe it plays out. Noone understands most peoples minds. Maybe more players get into RvR, realize they enjoy it and stick to it.

If you tune 1st rates so they are not impenetrable anymore the change would be good.

Well .... you are right, but it's also true that RvR is dominated by big clans, so - basically - to get there you SHALL enter, as the last comer, in a big clan.

And we all know that it's not that easy getting soon to a PB when you are the new one.

Maybe shallows water PBs are the key for the new wannabe RvR players, but I'm not so sure it is enough.

Edited December 23, 2017 by victor

[Christoph]

The ports that can not be taken should not count in the in the conquest competition

[Raf Van Boom]

Ports in Kidd's Islands should become free ports by the way - or, the map resets upon achieving some 'victory conditions' ala POTBS

[Peiper]

As a guy who prefers PVE, but likes building ships for my clan, this sucks donkey balls.  

Please bring back combat/victory/pvp mark conversions.  

You developer folks have to understand that not everyone plays for the same reasons, and you're 'encouraging' PVP and port battles pushes guys like me away from your game.  

And yes, I used to PVP a lot.  I did not really enjoy it.  Too much stress.  I come here to relax and to help as a crafter and to do the occasional AI fight.  I let the other guys fight for ports and each other.  

[PenguPirate]

5 minutes ago, Peiper said:

As a guy who prefers PVE, but likes building ships for my clan, this sucks donkey balls.  

Please bring back combat/victory/pvp mark conversions.  

You developer folks have to understand that not everyone plays for the same reasons, and you're 'encouraging' PVP and port battles pushes guys like me away from your game.  

And yes, I used to PVP a lot.  I did not really enjoy it.  Too much stress.  I come here to relax and to help as a crafter and to do the occasional AI fight.  I let the other guys fight for ports and each other.  

Inb4 you're told to go play on PvE server.

There are arguments that players want to be able to do both, chill with PvE when they're tired of the PvP scenes and vice versa. But I honestly doubt whether they(Devs) consider any of our posts.

Edited December 23, 2017 by PenguPirate

[Archaos]

17 hours ago, Captain corn blower said:

Sorry lots of changes back and forth same old shi T sorry really old now .where's new content added to the game more ships new ones even the old one that were removed .you asked for new ideas what we won't to see .I see nothing .WAIT. I did see a AT Essex keep up with me going in reverse ..now that's a major up date

I never understand why people keep asking for new ships in the game. There may be ships we would like to see in the game but they would be better adding more content and fixing issues in the game rather than adding new ships. Having 100 different ships to choose from is still pointless if people do not go out and fight in them. Get the game right and bring more people into it before looking to add new ships.

[Archaos]

10 hours ago, John Sheppard said:

that reminds me of what the situation just after the full wipe half a year ago when the first nations to help eachother with Conquest marks (setting up port battles for eachother and not showing up) were far ahead of the rest.. i remember the spanish had 30 L'oceans at the time that brits had 2-3 Agamemnons .. there was nothing the brits could do to stop the spanish when they decided to attack except use the basic cutter fireships 

this will repat again after the wipe i suspect

This may be true, but what happened to change it? Why are Spain not still the dominant force on the server? How did others catch up and pass them in dominance? As long as others have a chance of getting VM's then I think things will even out in the long run.

[Archaos]

There is a lot of mention on how the VM patch is killing the game for solo players, but how many solo players actually use a 1st rate for anything other than PvE grinding? If you go out solo in a first rate you are just asking to get ganked by a bunch of smaller ships that will stern camp you to death. Personally I have found that solo I only use a first rate for making money off AI fleets in the safe zone and would be very wary of sailing one solo anywhere else.

[Quineloe]

1 hour ago, Christoph said:

The ports that can not be taken should not count in the in the conquest competition

I'm pretty certain they do not. France has 46 ports and 36 points.

[vazco]

16 hours ago, rediii said:

Its just how it is.  Was the same outrage when you only got conquest marks from portbattles. Sweden just worked with it and was successfull. Its the same now to be honest.

Thickness has to be changed and BR of ships has to be changed so that BR of 3rds and 1st is ok and a fair display of battle value so the x 3rd rates are even with that 1 firstrate and you just need more players for it.

Also how many 1sts do you need nowadays for portbattles? They almost sont exist anymore except in large pbs and little pbs when its only 5 guys or so attacking

PB's maybe can be fixed, hostility generation and protection can't though. Someone with 1'sts has a big advantage. Try fighting full 1st rate fleet with full 2nd rates. 

Its also an important factor that 1sts are perceived by players as an advantage, they will loose spirit if enemy continues to sink them in 1st rates they don't have. 

Not to mention farming CM' s in 2nd rates takes much longer, without them you have less time to RvR.

 

In our PB's we use 1st rates every battle. It may be less of an issue when you have 40 people online on command, many of them trained. For us it's often a difference between RvR or no RvR. 

 

Sure, you can try to deal with all those issues and we will try. The reality though is that we don't stand a chance. Someone with 1sts can stomp us. I have no illusion that our adventure with RvR is ending now. 

You can gain an advantage thanks to VM's you will get with a new patch. The end result will be that noone will fight you after some time.

Edited December 23, 2017 by vazco

[vazco]

Btw, a sideffect of this last patch is that yesterday on OW I met two guys who were farming their alts. I didn't see it before. Introducing crude rules always causes crude responses. I guess we can expect nations to start doing this methodically. I find this cheap. Since we won't do this, I guess our nation's impossible mode just got more impossible. 

Edited December 23, 2017 by vazco

[PenguPirate]

On 22/12/2017 at 10:24 PM, admin said:

Update was deployed today 22 Dec.

• Labor hours contracts can now be bought for combat marks
• Victory marks can be bought for PvP marks to promote both RVR and PVP activites
• Prices for ship notes for PvP marks updated and generally lowered.
• Wasa and L' Hermione have been moved to PVP rewards and prices were updated
• Ability to acquire wasa on a pve server will be added next week together with the removal of permits for majority of vessels on both servers.
  • permits will remain for first rates and second rates
• Distribution of victory marks changed
  • victory marks will be given to top 3 positions on the conquest weekly leaderboard
    • 3 marks for first place
    • 2 marks for second place
    • 1 marks for third place
  • victory marks will only be given to the players who:
    • Have at least one lord protector status in at least one port by the end of the round - bringing his nation a control point or,
    • Participated in a successful port battle during the conquest round (even if the port was lost later on) - bringing his nation a battle point

Cool story, bro

[qw569😳]

@admin@Ink

Could you explain me why hostility mission can give different percentage on the same port?

• [23-12-2017 12:21 UTC] The hostility level of the clan MAD47 (United States) on the port West End (Great Britain) increased to 25.1%. The previous value was 0%
• [22-12-2017 20:46 UTC] The hostility level of the clan MAD47 (United States) on the port West End (Great Britain) increased to 24.7%. The previous value was 0%
• [22-12-2017 21:31 UTC] The hostility level of the clan PPP (Sverige) on the port La Tortuga (Verenigde Provinciën) increased to 26.7%. The previous value was 0%
• [11-12-2017 14:26 UTC] The hostility level of the clan PPP (Sverige) on the port La Tortuga (Verenigde Provinciën) increased to 25.9%. The previous value was 0%
• [22-12-2017 20:16 UTC] The hostility level of the clan WTF (Pirates) on the port Parrot Cay (Neutral) increased to 26.3%. The previous value was 0%
• [21-12-2017 16:46 UTC] The hostility level of the clan WTF (Pirates) on the port Parrot Cay (Neutral) increased to 26.7%. The previous value was 0%

[Kubrat]

@admin I see from your notes of 22 Dec that permits will be retired for most vessels other than 1st and 2nd rates.

Will existing permits held by individuals and guilds convert to combat mark redeemmables at the current purchase prices?  

 

5 hours ago, vazco said:

Btw, a sideffect of this last patch is that yesterday on OW I met two guys who were farming their alts.

I don't understand how the patch enabled this any more than was already the case. Genuine question, could you please explain? (Hope you reported them BTW)

[Jarlath Morrow]

On 12/7/2017 at 2:29 AM, admin said:

Ability to acquire wasa on a pve server will be added next week together with the removal of permits for majority of vessels on both servers.

I hope we get this part as soon as possible. Limiting 1st rates is a debatable move, but I want to see how it plays out before giving feedback.

However, there is a lot of confusion about the smaller vessels. There are already newbs convinced that they will never get to sail a Rattlesnake Heavy. I want to reassure them but it is difficult when the permits still take Victory Marks.

[Hethwill]

2 minutes ago, Jarlath Morrow said:

I hope we get this part as soon as possible. Limiting 1st rates is a debatable move, but I want to see how it plays out before giving feedback.

However, there is a lot of confusion about the smaller vessels. There are already newbs convinced that they will never get to sail a Rattlesnake Heavy. I want to reassure them but it is difficult when the permits still take Victory Marks.

Victory marks can be bought for PvP marks.

[Bart Smith]

5 hours ago, qw569 said:

@admin@Ink

Could you explain me why hostility mission can give different percentage on the same port?

• [23-12-2017 12:21 UTC] The hostility level of the clan MAD47 (United States) on the port West End (Great Britain) increased to 25.1%. The previous value was 0%
• [22-12-2017 20:46 UTC] The hostility level of the clan MAD47 (United States) on the port West End (Great Britain) increased to 24.7%. The previous value was 0%
• [22-12-2017 21:31 UTC] The hostility level of the clan PPP (Sverige) on the port La Tortuga (Verenigde Provinciën) increased to 26.7%. The previous value was 0%
• [11-12-2017 14:26 UTC] The hostility level of the clan PPP (Sverige) on the port La Tortuga (Verenigde Provinciën) increased to 25.9%. The previous value was 0%
• [22-12-2017 20:16 UTC] The hostility level of the clan WTF (Pirates) on the port Parrot Cay (Neutral) increased to 26.3%. The previous value was 0%
• [21-12-2017 16:46 UTC] The hostility level of the clan WTF (Pirates) on the port Parrot Cay (Neutral) increased to 26.7%. The previous value was 0%

Maybe damage summary dealt in mission? idk

Marks farming will be now main issue for sure. 

[PIerrick de Badas]

2 hours ago, Hethwill said:

Victory marks can be bought for PvP marks.

so in one hand you got a nation that got them freely and in the other hands the others have to farm pvp as pigs to get teh same advtange? Go hellokitty yourself with this blue cat ty.

[Serk]

25 minutes ago, PIerrick de Badas said:

so in one hand you got a nation that got them freely and in the other hands the others have to farm pvp as pigs to get teh same advtange? Go hellokitty yourself with this blue cat ty.

You can also get first rate notes from epic events.