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2 hours ago, Cmdr RideZ said:

Have you ever thought that while you make fast ships weaker, it makes other builds more interesting options.

This will also decrease ganking.  As if you attack with 6xSpeedBoat and 3xStandardBuild can sink those with ease, it is not so easy to gank.

This would even make it worse. The weaker you make fast ships, the more people are going to run from even fights. A major issue with ganking are ships build not for combat but to most efficiently avoid combat. And there are two reasons for that:

A: Fast ships and woods are way too weak already, teak frames for example provide ~7 times more value of stats than fir. Its similar for the Reno or Endymion compared with similar rated ships, not so extreme though. For comparison. Fir would be balanced when 1% speed would be worth 10% hull HP or 5% thickness.

B: Mechanics allow you to avoid combat in all possible ways. No matter if youre surrounded in the OW, chased by the fastest ship in game, or in close combat with another guy and messed up. Speed combined with stupid mechanics lets you get away. Thats the only reason why speed is so insanely valuable. That speed gets you some control besides beeing a combat stat can be balanced. This cant be balanced.

Sure with -70% hull less people would use gank ships, but thats not balancing. Just remove fir then, because there is no point to have pure gank ships in the game.

17 minutes ago, Slim Jimmerson said:

Any advantage the Connie has is negated by the Wasa.

Wasa seems just a little better. 10% more dpm, ~10% better penetration and 5% more HP vs 3% thickness and ~15% better turnrate. If you evaluate turnrate much higher than dpm the connie seems better.

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we plan to update the speed caps and some speed mods to reduce the desire to fit only for speed. We still believe that a speed cap is a good idea allowing you to sail the ship you want (not only the f

right but as long as there is a 15.5 santi there is no reason for a renomee or any other type of support ship. I think the over all max cap is part of the problem here. 

also @admin with this new turn rate based on wind. how in world will you ever make fifth rates viable ships again. the days of stern camping are over with this new sailing update. then you add in on t

Just now, Fargo said:

Wasa seems just a little better. 10% more dpm, ~10% better penetration and 5% more HP vs 3% thickness and ~15% better turnrate. If you evaluate turnrate much higher than dpm the connie seems better.

15% better dpm with all longs for Wasa and connie is only a 10% turn advantage. Thickness is nulled by the 32s, so 7% better penetration for the Wasa including armor and mast. Add 3% for the Wasa's chasers.

The Wasa is 25% better stat wise than the connie, or 35-40% better than the inger, and 25-30% better than the agga. That's makes it officially the most OP ship in the game, or the most OP tier 4 anything in any game.

 

 

 

 

 

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36 minutes ago, Slim Jimmerson said:

15% better dpm with all longs for Wasa and connie is only a 10% turn advantage. Thickness is nulled by the 32s, so 7% better penetration for the Wasa including armor and mast. Add 3% for the Wasa's chasers.

The Wasa is 25% better stat wise than the connie, or 35-40% better than the inger, and 25-30% better than the agga. That's makes it officially the most OP ship in the game, or the most OP tier 4 anything in any game.

 

 

 

 

 

Wasa can't equip as heavy a broadside as the Connie. As I said, in a toe to toe match in equal ships the Connie wins due to being able to mount a ton of 42 lb carronades. The dps from these more than makes up for the wasa 32s.  Connie will win that match every time. Also the connie can bounce most of the wasas broadside, including the 32 lb guns. The wasa in turn cannot do that to the Connie. Since the last series of patches, the manual sailing capabilities of the connie are far superior to the wasa. Rudder turn rate is less important now although the Connie has a significant edge. As i said before, the wasa chasers are virtually useless for popping top masts... the connies 18 lb guns take one every shot or two. The wasa has weaker sails, weaker mast defense, weaker armor... weaker maneuverability, its slower when fully equipped with cannons and repairs due to a tiny hold. It has more crew, but requires significantly more crew to man the cannons and suffers greatly in reload speed if you get raked once. 

And no the wasa is not 25 percent better than the Connie. The Connie out performs the wasa in everything but broadside weight, and even there it loses if you mount carronades and mediums. Hell, carronades and longs lol.  I've killed 98 wasa since the patch that introduced them. I've never lost a Connie to one. Most of those were heavy wasa that fell to a fir Connie. The fir variants are even easier to kill. 

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33 minutes ago, Slim Jimmerson said:

15% better dpm with all longs for Wasa and connie is only a 10% turn advantage. Thickness is nulled by the 32s, so 7% better penetration for the Wasa including armor and mast. Add 3% for the Wasa's chasers.

The Wasa is 25% better stat wise than the connie, or 35-40% better than the inger, and 25-30% better than the agga. That's makes it officially the most OP ship in the game, or the most OP tier 4 anything in any game

I see, they changed turn rate. Dpm should still be 10% though. But your right with only 10% better turnrate the wasa provides better stats.

But 10% more dpm is not making a ship 10% better, you cant just add these numbers.

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17 hours ago, King of Crowns said:

Hey devs how about this idea....... how about you make the speed cap based on the rate of the ships. instead of just an overall speed cap for all ships. for example. 1st rates have a speed cap of 12knts. and so on and so forth. a 15.5 santi is retarded. this is a simple easy fix. it would make smaller ships more important. 

Why? 3rd rates were as fast as many Frigates in real life.. Granted the 2nds and 1st not so much:)   

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16 minutes ago, Fargo said:

I see, they changed turn rate. Dpm should still be 10% though. But your right with only 10% better turnrate the wasa provides better stats.

But 10% more dpm is not making a ship 10% better, you cant just add these numbers.

No it's the most ridiculous thing I've read all night lol. And he forgot that the Connie mounts 42 lb carronades on its top deck which nullifies the wasa 32 advantage. Toe to toe a Connie will out damage a wasa of the same build every time. Connie doesn't lose nearly as much speed for mounting cannons and carrying the same repair loadout as the wasa does, so the Connie has the speed advantage every fight as well as maneuverability. Connie will get more bang for its buck out of mods due to having higher stats to start with so that rudder bonus becomes considerably more when you apply knowledge etc. same thing when you apply a Cartagena etc. like I've always said, the wasa Is a great ship for mediocre players to feel good in because it allows them to get away with making mistakes longer. But good pvpers will own a wasa in short order with the Connie. The Aggie handles better than a wasa in my opinion. I've seen my clan mates shred many wasa with aggies.... but I am not as much of an authority on the Aggie as I am on the Connie. I do know the Aggie can bounce just as much incoming cannon fire as the Connie can. The wasa pretty much has to take all damage aimed at it, and cannot bounce the larger caliber cannon balls like the Aggie, Connie and bellona can. (The other night I bounced every shot a santisma fired at my fir teak Connie lol)

As a side note, I tried out the wasa extensively when it first showed up and again after the last patch. I've got all knowledge in it, and found it to be incredibly lacking for end game pvp. It's ok for port battles because it's cheap I guess.

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12 minutes ago, Malachy said:

 

No it's the most ridiculous thing I've read all night lol. And he forgot that the Connie mounts 42 lb carronades on its top deck which nullifies the wasa 32 advantage. Toe to toe a Connie will out damage a wasa of the same build every time. Connie doesn't lose nearly as much speed for mounting cannons and carrying the same repair loadout as the wasa does, so the Connie has the speed advantage every fight as well as maneuverability. Connie will get more bang for its buck out of mods due to having higher stats to start with so that rudder bonus becomes considerably more when you apply knowledge etc. same thing when you apply a Cartagena etc. like I've always said, the wasa Is a great ship for mediocre players to feel good in because it allows them to get away with making mistakes longer. But good pvpers will own a wasa in short order with the Connie. The Aggie handles better than a wasa in my opinion. I've seen my clan mates shred many wasa with aggies.... but I am not as much of an authority on the Aggie as I am on the Connie. I do know the Aggie can bounce just as much incoming cannon fire as the Connie can. The wasa pretty much has to take all damage aimed at it, and cannot bounce the larger caliber cannon balls like the Aggie, Connie and bellona can. (The other night I bounced every shot a santisma fired at my fir teak Connie lol)

As a side note, I tried out the wasa extensively when it first showed up and again after the last patch. I've got all knowledge in it, and found it to be incredibly lacking for end game pvp. It's ok for port battles because it's cheap I guess.

SIR this has to be the dumbest thing read in a long time. WASSA has the highest poundage. a carronade rigged connie will in no way out damage a wassa. nevermind the fact that you get DOUBLE shot on the wassa on all decks. double shot from wassa will reload shock connie instantly. 24s and 32s are very difficult to bounce. where as a 42lb carronade will bounce very easily. you forget that the devs have made carros useless sir. double shot means there is never a need for carros. argue all you want. but you are wrong. 

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Sure with carronades its a different talk. To be accurate you would have to compare ships at different distances with different loadouts, etc. Close range carronades are always OP, but there are reasons many people use longs. With longs or on medium distance the wasa is better statwise. Little more mast thickness or heavier cannons dont change that.

If the given turnrates arent realistic ofcourse it would change something, but i cant evaluate this. All i know is that the connie always sailed like the brick she looks like. And this seemed balanced while she was as fast as many 5th rates. Turnrates seem to be messed up currently nevertheless.

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1 hour ago, King of Crowns said:

SIR this has to be the dumbest thing read in a long time. WASSA has the highest poundage. a carronade rigged connie will in no way out damage a wassa. nevermind the fact that you get DOUBLE shot on the wassa on all decks. double shot from wassa will reload shock connie instantly. 24s and 32s are very difficult to bounce. where as a 42lb carronade will bounce very easily. you forget that the devs have made carros useless sir. double shot means there is never a need for carros. argue all you want. but you are wrong. 

Carros will penetrate even the thickest wasa at 200 meters. Double shot loses penetration by its very design and is limited. I also can use double charge or shot on my bottom deck while using the carronades which have greater damage and faster reload than the 32 lb guns. You really should look at stats sometime. And the wasa can't bounce anything. It is designed to absorb damage, not deflect it. No matter how the wasa is angled it's going to take full damage, not so with the connie or Agamemnon. The devs did not make carronades useless, that was whining by some people who exploited them when they were broken. Carronades are far from useless, especially in a ship that can mount both carronades and long guns or medium guns too. Most of the ships are limited to the smaller carronades... the Connie can use the second biggest ones which are equivalent in damage to the MAIN DECK guns on a 1st rate. You can only reload shock weak ships. I've never been reload shocked by a wasa, even in a fir Connie. 

 You sir, just proved to us all that you are one of those people the wasa was designed for.... mediocre players who need a crutch. Like I've said before, the best players don't use them because they aren't even competitive with the connie. When you see folks like banished privateer, vile executioner, elite delta, hms avenger, liquicity, hachi Roku, Robert Calder, capn rocko, jefke, myself or any of a few dozen other top pvpers in a wasa then it might be a good ship. We only sail the best ships because we don't like to lose. You know who you do see in wasa? The people who get sunk a lot lol. 

All the top pvpers say the wasa Is a little overpowered for what it is, in the next breath, we will then say, but it's pretty easy to take one out. There is a reason the Connie is the number one choice of all the top pvpers for 4th rates. It's better lol. Wasa is a crutch ship designed to Be forgiving to those who use it. It allows an otherwise mediocre player to last a little bit longer vs a decent player in a good 4th rate. But in the end the outcome will still be the same, wasa 0 Connie 1.

the wasa is the flavor of the month right now. All the noobs and weaker players are flocking to it because they think it gives them an unfair advantage. You know what I see when I see a wasa? 10 pvp marks in my pocket. 

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1 hour ago, Fargo said:

Sure with carronades its a different talk. To be accurate you would have to compare ships at different distances with different loadouts, etc. Close range carronades are always OP, but there are reasons many people use longs. With longs or on medium distance the wasa is better statwise. Little more mast thickness or heavier cannons dont change that.

If the given turnrates arent realistic ofcourse it would change something, but i cant evaluate this. All i know is that the connie always sailed like the brick she looks like. And this seemed balanced while she was as fast as many 5th rates. Turnrates seem to be messed up currently nevertheless.

Connie was more nimble than the wasa since day 1. Most people don't know how to manual sail or worse think they know how to manual sail lol. 

As to cannons, in a brawl you want the most damage you can get and most fights devolve into a brawl in short order. The wasa has a smaller hold so takes much greater speed penalties for guns and repairs so can't keep the distance from a same built Connie. The Connie also mounts 18 lb chase armament which will take the wasa top masts off in 1 or two hits. It cannot reply in kind with its weak chase armament. By the time it's in range with chain, it's missing all 3 top masts and sitting at 60 percent sails. After that, the Connie is free to engage at will, either go toe to toe with carronades or simply stern rake the wasa and board. Or any combination of the two. Repairs merely prolong the inevitable. 

Mast thickness and thickness in general change a lot, especially at range. That's another reason why the wasa suffers, it's masts are pretty weak, especially it's top and mid sections. The connies superior thickness and deflective hull design completely  account for any advantage the 32s have. Since the wasa doesn't have a deflective hull, it suffers quite abit in survivability. I angle my Connie 40 to 50 degrees, nearly every cannon ball a wasa fired bounces off. Do the same in a wasa and every cannon ball I fire penetrates. The Connie can easily angle itself on the approach to nullify any advantage the wasa has at range. And like I said earlier, once it's inside it's optimal range, the fight is over. 

There are about 6 ships in game that excel at damage deflection: the Connie, the Agamemnon, the l'ocean, the bellona, the pavel, and the belle poule. Pretty much everything else Has to absorb whatever is dished out. 

Thats how we won a fight the other night vs heavier ships. Our lighter ships could deflect whatever the heavy ships dished out. We lost the two ships that couldn't do that and the enemy ship that could was the the only survivor on their side. 

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8 hours ago, Malachy said:

Connie was more nimble than the wasa since day 1. Most people don't know how to manual sail or worse think they know how to manual sail lol. 

As to cannons, in a brawl you want the most damage you can get and most fights devolve into a brawl in short order. The wasa has a smaller hold so takes much greater speed penalties for guns and repairs so can't keep the distance from a same built Connie. The Connie also mounts 18 lb chase armament which will take the wasa top masts off in 1 or two hits. It cannot reply in kind with its weak chase armament. By the time it's in range with chain, it's missing all 3 top masts and sitting at 60 percent sails. After that, the Connie is free to engage at will, either go toe to toe with carronades or simply stern rake the wasa and board. Or any combination of the two. Repairs merely prolong the inevitable. 

Mast thickness and thickness in general change a lot, especially at range. That's another reason why the wasa suffers, it's masts are pretty weak, especially it's top and mid sections. The connies superior thickness and deflective hull design completely  account for any advantage the 32s have. Since the wasa doesn't have a deflective hull, it suffers quite abit in survivability. I angle my Connie 40 to 50 degrees, nearly every cannon ball a wasa fired bounces off. Do the same in a wasa and every cannon ball I fire penetrates. The Connie can easily angle itself on the approach to nullify any advantage the wasa has at range. And like I said earlier, once it's inside it's optimal range, the fight is over. 

There are about 6 ships in game that excel at damage deflection: the Connie, the Agamemnon, the l'ocean, the bellona, the pavel, and the belle poule. Pretty much everything else Has to absorb whatever is dished out. 

Thats how we won a fight the other night vs heavier ships. Our lighter ships could deflect whatever the heavy ships dished out. We lost the two ships that couldn't do that and the enemy ship that could was the the only survivor on their side. 

What happens when a wasa stays 250 meters away with longs vs a Connie with carronades?

i’m not Sure what kind of fights you’ve been in but i’ve Killed a few Connie’s like that. Shoot their sales a little bit to slow them down and then just out dps them with your bottom decks. 

Enjoy you 11 pvp marks!

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29 minutes ago, Simon Cadete said:

What happens when a wasa stays 250 meters away with longs vs a Connie with carronades?

i’m not Sure what kind of fights you’ve been in but i’ve Killed a few Connie’s like that. Shoot their sales a little bit to slow them down and then just out dps them with your bottom decks. 

Enjoy you 11 pvp marks!

They can't.back to the wasa being slower and less maneuverable with poor topmast hitpoints. Couple shots has the topmasts down  and the wasa is at the connies mercy. The wasa can try to chain but that's not really effective til closer ranges and it's really easy to angle your masts to keep chain from hitting. I usually either tag the wasa from behind or in front, and take his top masts with my chasers where he can't really reply with those popguns. I can do more damage with a ball or two than ten shots from his long 9s. Once he pops his sail repair, I'll knock down whatever heals, then close and finish him. There's really nothing it can do to prevent that from happening. 

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12 minutes ago, rediii said:

U are a true consti fanboy.

Also some facts u state are just not true

I've over 2000 hours in a connie. I also spent enough time in a wasa to discover it's weaknesses (completely opened all 5 knowledge boxes and sailed it in over 100 pvp battles including quite a bit of testing vs the Connie). 

Everything I've posted, I have explored many times over. When the wasa was released, I too looked at the stats and thought it may be the ship to replace my trusty old Connie. It wasn't. It did not perform to my expectations, and had several serious flaws that are too easy to exploit. I had trouble giving them away because my clan mates didn't want them either for the same reasons.  I have sank 98 wasa since it was released. It's even easier to take them now with the sail profile changes than it was when it came out. I have lost zero connies to wasas. Some of those were captained by decent players, but most were mediocre pvpers. My testing was done against people I consider my peers. Between battle experience and testing I am extremely confident when I say the wasa is inferior to the Connie for os pvp. 

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23 minutes ago, rediii said:

#nerfMalachy

God of pvp

 

As long as there is no objective test if hullshape of ships realy change anything I dont believe it.

And btw all topmasts are weak af. Also constis topmast.

Believe it or not, it's still true. It's how I get away with sailing fir teak ships vs teak wo or stronger. I bounced every shot in a santis broadside at 60 degrees with a fir teak bellona a few nights back. Im not the best pvper on the server, but I'm in the top 5 percent. Hachi and vile are a little better than me imho, maybe Ram Dinark, but I've never fought him.

And the connies top masts are stronger than the wasa. They have more thickness. You can shoot a connies top mast with 9 lbs all day, they won't go down. It takes 1 to 2 balls from the connies 18 lb to take a wasa top mast.

i was in error in one thing I said. I forgot about getting ganked by the Danes 11 on 1. Another Connie took down my masts, but a wasa actually got the kill in boarding combat. So I have lost 1 Connie to a wasa assisted by another Connie I guess. That annoyed me because that Connie belonged to a Sorry member before I "acquired" it. Connie 98, wasa 1

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19 hours ago, Malachy said:

No ship should go faster than 14.5 tbh. And my fir ships are only about 18 percent over their base. and still are all running close to speed capped, even the heavier ones. 

If it is a fast base speed then it should be fast top end.  None of this crap of a 10knt ship getting to 15.5knts because you put some magic on it.  I mean do they have Tinker Bell trapped in the hull and she is powering the ship with ferry dust.

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13 hours ago, Fargo said:

This would even make it worse. The weaker you make fast ships, the more people are going to run from even fights. A major issue with ganking are ships build not for combat but to most efficiently avoid combat. And there are two reasons for that:

A: Fast ships and woods are way too weak already, teak frames for example provide ~7 times more value of stats than fir. Its similar for the Reno or Endymion compared with similar rated ships, not so extreme though. For comparison. Fir would be balanced when 1% speed would be worth 10% hull HP or 5% thickness.

B: Mechanics allow you to avoid combat in all possible ways. No matter if youre surrounded in the OW, chased by the fastest ship in game, or in close combat with another guy and messed up. Speed combined with stupid mechanics lets you get away. Thats the only reason why speed is so insanely valuable. That speed gets you some control besides beeing a combat stat can be balanced. This cant be balanced.

They have to also remove multiple repair kits.  If a gank ship gets hit bad, it should go down.

Speed meta is nerfed when those ships have enough negative traits.

We could have a ship that none wants to use for ganking but can always escape.  Gankers could not catch fast traders.  Weak speed boats have to run from combat ships, but can catch traders.

It would not make it worse.  Just make sure that if you highly optimize your ship for speed, it is utter crap in combat.  You can have 10 gank ships vs 3 combat ships and they can do absolutely nothing.

I am giving extreme examples here, don't know which would be the balanced spot.

You can have a Fir/Fir scout, but whoever sails that knows to avoid combat.

Another issue is that we have players who want very high rake/mast damage.  This is hard to balance when not in balance with hulls.  In one way I have to say it is very hard to balance when people want so much features that are out of balance.

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1 hour ago, Hodo said:

If it is a fast base speed then it should be fast top end.  None of this crap of a 10knt ship getting to 15.5knts because you put some magic on it.  I mean do they have Tinker Bell trapped in the hull and she is powering the ship with ferry dust.

There are no 10 knot ships :P that hit 15 anyhow. you gotta have a base in the mid to high 12s to hit 15. And that requires art of ship handling which is super rare. That's why it's only fir hitting the cap and I doubt there are many 1st rates that hit it. You don't have to be 15 knots to run down a 15 knot ship btw ;)

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1 hour ago, Cmdr RideZ said:

They have to also remove multiple repair kits.

Thats one of the stupid mechanics im talking about.

1 hour ago, Cmdr RideZ said:

It would not make it worse.  Just make sure that if you highly optimize your ship for speed, it is utter crap in combat. 

No, there is no point to allow combat ships not capable of combat in a game that focusses on combat. Its neither realistic, nor good for gameplay in any way -> get rid of it.

You cant balance speed as a combat stat and a gank/escape stat at the same time. Making fast ships crap (what they are already) reduces fast ships to pure gank ships. Youre trying to balance ganking with combat, but there is no point to do so because theres no point to have ganking.

1 hour ago, Cmdr RideZ said:

You can have 10 gank ships vs 3 combat ships and they can do absolutely nothing.

This is the actual problem. 10 ships running from a 3 man squad is the definition of ganking as problematic gameplay. 

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15 minutes ago, Fargo said:

Thats one of the stupid mechanics im talking about.

No, there is no point to allow combat ships not capable of combat in a game that focusses on combat. Its neither realistic, nor good for gameplay in any way -> get rid of it.

You cant balance speed as a combat stat and a gank/escape stat at the same time. Making fast ships crap (what they are already) reduces fast ships to pure gank ships. Youre trying to balance ganking with combat, but there is no point to do so because theres no point to have ganking.

This is the actual problem. 10 ships running from a 3 man squad is the definition of ganking as problematic gameplay. 

Lol 10 fast ships running from three heavy cracks me up. Fast ships are far superior to heavy ships in this game. Not to beat a dead horse but my friends and I beat heavy ships all the time with fast ones and the heavy ships usually have numerical superiority. Speed control the fight and the fastest ship holds the wind advantage. Armor means very little if you can do these two things. We captured a live oak Santi, sank a white oak buc, and captured a prince, losing only a fir victory (he lost boarding not due to health ... the guy he boarded was kitted out full boarding lol), And a fir renomee. We engaged 2 live oak 1st rates,  1 white oak buc 1 snow, 1 npc snow and 1 prince. We had a teak Agamemnon, fir victory, fir bellona and fir renomee. Both sides had very skilled captains. So any fir ship that runs from a heavy ship has a fool for a captain that doesn't know how to fight his ship properly. That's more of a lack of skill vs wood issue.

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1 hour ago, Malachy said:

Lol 10 fast ships running from three heavy cracks me up. Fast ships are far superior to heavy ships in this game. Not to beat a dead horse but my friends and I beat heavy ships all the time with fast ones and the heavy ships usually have numerical superiority. Speed control the fight and the fastest ship holds the wind advantage. Armor means very little if you can do these two things. We captured a live oak Santi, sank a white oak buc, and captured a prince, losing only a fir victory (he lost boarding not due to health ... the guy he boarded was kitted out full boarding lol), And a fir renomee. We engaged 2 live oak 1st rates,  1 white oak buc 1 snow, 1 npc snow and 1 prince. We had a teak Agamemnon, fir victory, fir bellona and fir renomee. Both sides had very skilled captains. So any fir ship that runs from a heavy ship has a fool for a captain that doesn't know how to fight his ship properly. That's more of a lack of skill vs wood issue.

Yes but speed wont win you any fight. What do you want to prove here, youre examples arent representative for anything. That you can beat something with an experienced fir squad proves exactly nothing. If you want to show off your alleged skill do it somewhere else. This is not how you do serious discussions and your doing it in basically every topic until people stop discussing with you. Fir is provably imbalanced and reality shows that most people are running in those ships. Whats youre assumption, that all people ganking are noobs, or that ganking isnt real?! Why arent people using fir ships for portbattles?!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2RwvkBnMUeI this is what usually happens if the strong ships somehow know how to fight. A single combat ship can beat whole hunting squads, and fighting multiple ships makes it significantly more difficult for you to avoid damage/win by raking. If you just couldnt escape easily with 0 hull, ganking would become much less viable. I cant count the battles ive been "ganked" by butter ships that had to disengage very quickly. Ive seen a bucket forcing 3 players + 6 fleet ships to escape. Basic 3rd rates that beat up to 3 fir carronade fitted boarding connies. Etc. Your fir ships are neither going to win a sail battle on distance, nor a broadside fight. Unless you can decide the fight by raking youre most likely going to loose.

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46 minutes ago, Fargo said:

Yes but speed wont win you any fight. What do you want to prove here, youre examples arent representative for anything. That you can beat something with an experienced fir squad proves exactly nothing. If you want to show off your alleged skill do it somewhere else. This is not how you do serious discussions and your doing it in basically every topic until people stop discussing with you. Fir is provably imbalanced and reality shows that most people are running in those ships. Whats youre assumption, that all people ganking are noobs, or that ganking isnt real?! Why arent people using fir ships for portbattles?!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2RwvkBnMUeI this is what usually happens if the strong ships somehow know how to fight. A single combat ship can beat whole hunting squads, and fighting multiple ships makes it significantly more difficult for you to avoid damage/win by raking. If you just couldnt escape easily with 0 hull, ganking would become much less viable. I cant count the battles ive been "ganked" by butter ships that had to disengage very quickly. Ive seen a bucket forcing 3 players + 6 fleet ships to escape. Basic 3rd rates that beat up to 3 fir carronade fitted boarding connies. Etc. Your fir ships are neither going to win a sail battle on distance, nor a broadside fight. Unless you can decide the fight by raking youre most likely going to loose.

All fights are decided by raking, bud. There is no such thing as a broadside fight in this game and if it does happen, it occurs between very inexperienced players. Basically it boils down to the fact that speed will gain you the wind (tactical) advantage. The faster you are, the more maneuverable you are. If a ship holds the wind advantage, it will basically win the fight, no matter what it's made of or it's opponent is made of.

If you don't like my input, stop making stupid assertions. Your video shows how you like heavy vs fir fights to go, not how the majority go. It has nothing to do with ability, and mostly to do with physics. The majority heavy vs fir fights end up with the heavy ships captured or sunk because they are too slow to take the wind and hold it and aren't maneuverable enough to get guns on target. The faster you are going the faster you are going to complete your maneuvers. Your assertions prove that you have a LOT to learn about pvp in this game, and that's ok, we were all there once. When I started the game, I thought the same as you, but some really good pvpers took me under their wing and showed me the error of my ways. I'm willing to help you the same way if you like. Give me 30 days and I can make you a much better player.

Ganking does happen and will always happen, no matter what. There is not a single pvp game in existence that has been able to stop it. The only thing this suggestion of koc will accomplish will be to put everyone back in one or two ship types again, where now with a hard cap, any ship is viable. It doesn't take a genius to figure out that speed trumps everything else in this game and with current and past game mechanics that will never change. The fast ships will always get the stern rakes and always control the battle.  You bring two friends with you in tanky ships up to kpr or tortue on the EU server and we will Be happy to demonstrate this fact for you.  

Edited by Malachy
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