Bring back multiple durability

[z4ys]

19 minutes ago, Malachy said:

Why have six ships with the exact same build sitting in port when you  can have 1 with multiple durability to accomplish the same task. No, dock space and durability are very linked. The devs didn't even want single durability, but a bunch of loud mouthed idiots pressured them into it. 

6 ships vs 1 you see? The introduction of 1 dura in gave crafter a task during patch 10.x now with everything easy to get and ships accessible by marks ( to hell with all the ship notes) crafting became more and more unnecessary.

So in a way you are right if devs want to keep their heading away from crafting with purpose then let us go back to multi dura. But if they want to remake crafting and give crafting a purpose we should stick to 1 dura.

[Malachy]

33 minutes ago, z4ys said:

6 ships vs 1 you see? The introduction of 1 dura in gave crafter a task during patch 10.x now with everything easy to get and ships accessible by marks ( to hell with all the ship notes) crafting became more and more unnecessary.

So in a way you are right if devs want to keep their heading away from crafting with purpose then let us go back to multi dura. But if they want to remake crafting and give crafting a purpose we should stick to 1 dura.

Crafters have about as much business now as they did before. They just can't charge as much. I remember selling 4 dura connies for 3 or 4 mil. You are lucky to get 600 to 800k for one now. And any end game player is a master crafter for the most part. I build my own ships because finding a ship builder who can craft what I want adds even more time to waste while I'm trying to get back in the fight. So they won't get any business from me in the current system. If ships had multiple durabilty again, I'd have plenty more time to wait to get a ship crafted. I don't like having to craft, but due to single durability, I do it. I'd much rather buy ships from others but that's not feasible with one durability ships.

Edited November 28, 2017 by Malachy

[jodgi]

2 hours ago, Archaos said:

Stop being such "Carebears" about it, afraid to lose a few pixels.

It's obviously not Malachy that's afraid of losing pixels, but rather almost everyone else. That leads to a major cooldown of pvp; Few people look for it, few people welcome it, few people take risks, all pvp'ers get the blues.

[George Washington]

1 minute ago, Malachy said:

Admin doesn't post on all threads. Especially if his opinion is going to be crapped on by a bunch of folks. I've seen plenty of things implemented from posts no dev even acknowledged, so no it's not a waste of time. What we have here is a vocal minority rushing to save a failed game mechanic they asked for, nothing more, nothing less

Let's continue then. 

[Hethwill]

6 minutes ago, jodgi said:

It's obviously not Malachy that's afraid of losing pixels, but rather almost everyone else. That leads to a major cooldown of pvp; Few people look for it, few people welcome it, few people take risks, all pvp'ers get the blues.

Correct and approved but... ( always a but... )

Seemingly a lot of clans been cracking heads, from frigate engagements up to SOLs, both in OW and in PBs. Easy to spot at all levels, from ingame - by being there or combat news - or out of game just by peeking here and there on the various streamers spread across all the natio

Granted, there's a very high tide at post-dinner euro times and then, at around 1AM zulu time it falls back to a economy runs relaxation. Not bad at all for robbers at sea.

[George Washington]

1 hour ago, jodgi said:

It's obviously not Malachy that's afraid of losing pixels, but rather almost everyone else. That leads to a major cooldown of pvp; Few people look for it, few people welcome it, few people take risks, all pvp'ers get the blues.

Let's try to figure out why on average people only play for only 16 minutes and log out. That number is listed on steamspy. Let's pretend it's correct. 

Phase One (Log in)

Cons:

-No Popup Windows informing of Hostility News in your nation

-No Mail with Daily Missions requests and Trade Runs

-No Mail with Hot PvP zones alerts

-Repetitive Missions is the only PvE content

-Epic Events Require 6 1st rate group and does not drop ship notes

-NPC fleet hunt that require 30-40 minute chase runs in order to catch them. Great for ship XP grind, but takes too long.

-Empty Oceans require long search for NPC fleets. It will take an average of 20 mins to find a decent fleet based on your location. (Trailed 1 fleet myself just to see where it goes, trust me you will not find it. Devs claim there are many fleets, but their routes are 90% in the middle of nowhere + no one sails there ever. So, that is why no one can find these fleets. In addition, Fleet speed is slightly greater than any average 4th rate and there is no way to catch them directly, only if you trail and wait fore them to turn). Waste of content imho. Fill active areas with fleets and add random spawn OS battles that players can join.

ex. I sail into nowhere and I see  'swords' , I click and it says - 2x 4th rates attack 1 trader. Objective: Kill Attacker. Reward: Gold + Random Trader Reward. I now decide If I am fit to fight and join NPC battle. Rinse repeat. Devs need to fill oceans with these and reroute fleets to coast and active areas. Please. 

-Low Trader drops make NPC trader hunt useless

-No random fleets. As mentioned before Treasure Fleets, Privateer Fleets, Resupply Fleets, Escorted Fleets, Hunting Fleets, War Fleets etc... Make some aggressive. 

Pros:

-Active non stop Chat where you can BS for 16 minutes and log out

-Click few Econ buttons and sell your goods and log out

Phase Two (One Durability Ships and Mods)

Cons

-Player will loose his ship if he is sunk, plain and simple. Player will not try to explore or sail far from safe zone. 

-No decent rewards that promote risk. If there is a mission chain with end reward (Ship Note) , then yes players will risk.  

-No insurance to secure your 1 durability ship and get something back.

-Mods and Cargo will get lost if sunk. No option to negotiate. (Give up 50% of cargo and jump out). 

-No OS trade between players. Players have to sail back and forth to refill repairs and resupply. They can just share reps and continue OS fun. 

Pros

-New sailing mechanics are very fun and exiting. 

Phase Three (21 Days After)

After about 21 days without any new content players start to get bored and look somewhere else. There is nothing to keep them in the game. Let's see what could keep them in the game from my perspective:

1. Stackable durabilities. Increase ship demand, promote pvp and reduce fear factor of last durability loss. Simply order 2 ships from your shipright and go hunting. With stackable durabilities players will not loose mods, but only when killed on last durability ship.

2.Daily Missions. Tab for daily Epic/Trade/Hunting/Treasure etc.. missions. Group/Solo options must be present. 1st time log in daily mail with daily rewards and achievements. Player open mail and start filling achievements and receive reward after. 

3. Junk Loot that can be collected and converted to Basic Paints. Add Premium paints and rare ones to epic events and store. Such loot can also be linked to NPC merchants exchange to goods option. 

4. Insurance. There is no need to explain here. Give player option to insure ships and they will risk knowing they get money back when sunk. All sides win. 

5. Open arena where players can practice against each other without ship loss. 

6. Detailed Open World Map with zones indicating hostility or NPC kill activity. 

7. Ship notes must drop from NPCs. Rare chance , but it has to be there. I talked to Vets and they refuse to do any Events because reward is too low and not worth time spending. If someone got 2nd rate Note from a Fleet everyone will then want one. Let the fun begin, hunters will have prey. PvE guys will have rewards.  

I think if Devs can add all this we can have players average time in game at least 1 hour guarantee. 

*My daily activity, I trail fleets and if I find players I hunt. That is about it. Kill fleets to unlock slots and hope to find pvp. Sell produced goods, log out. This is all to it Naval Action. You can also go to populated areas and get ganked. 

 

Edited November 28, 2017 by George Washington

[Hethwill]

Well written breakdown. Thank you. 

[Fargo]

1 hour ago, Malachy said:

Make some sense and maybe we can make some headway. We tried single durability now, it's a bad system compared to what we had. 

The problem is you dont accept any sense contradicting youre believes. Every single argument you provide is based on wrong assumptions. We did not test one dura, because that would require a proper test environment. You cant blame one single variable for anything while dozens changed at the same time. Thats more than foolish. You dont need more than 2-3 ships in an outpost btw., and a working economy would never allow you to own such insane amounts of hulls. What youre saying about economy tops it all...

Its such a joke what people are allowed to do in this forum. This topic is purely based on misacceptions. Have fun with this meaningful discussion guys. 

[Malachy]

59 minutes ago, Fargo said:

The problem is you dont accept any sense contradicting youre believes. Every single argument you provide is based on wrong assumptions. We did not test one dura, because that would require a proper test environment. You cant blame one single variable for anything while dozens changed at the same time. Thats more than foolish. You dont need more than 2-3 ships in an outpost btw., and a working economy would never allow you to own such insane amounts of hulls. What youre saying about economy tops it all...

Its such a joke what people are allowed to do in this forum. This topic is purely based on misacceptions. Have fun with this meaningful discussion guys. 

[ comment removed. Address others with proper and civil manners. Please. - the moderation team ]

What do you think we've been doing all these months if not testing single durability? And no, 2 ships is not enough when you want to fight more than 1 or 2 engagements. Unless you win every single engagement, which we've established even the best pvpers don't do, your still stuck spending many hours doing boring activities for maybe an hour of fun. Pointless time sink. When you find a way to eliminate the pointless time sink under current conditions, we can talk. But you haven't been able to do that have you?

[George Washington]

Guys stop fighting , it's clear we need extra durability on ships to promote pvp. Extra durability is only a part 10% of the problem that is contributing to reduced pvp activity. Adding extra durabilities will surely increase pvp, but not enough to keep it going. Other things must be added with it in order for this whole thing to work. 

Edited November 28, 2017 by George Washington

[CTC_ClanLeader]

15 minutes ago, Malachy said:

[ comment removed. Address others with proper and civil manners. Please. - the moderation team ]

What do you think we've been doing all these months if not testing single durability? And no, 2 ships is not enough when you want to fight more than 1 or 2 engagements. Unless you win every single engagement, which we've established even the best pvpers don't do, your still stuck spending many hours doing boring activities for maybe an hour of fun. Pointless time sink. When you find a way to eliminate the pointless time sink under current conditions, we can talk. But you haven't been able to do that have you?

For u its pointless, for others its not - maybe u are playing the wrong game. 

[George Washington]

5 minutes ago, CTC_ClanLeader said:

For u its pointless, for others its not - maybe u are playing the wrong game. 

Not all have vision of what is going on in Naval Action. Some play in their boxes and ignore other outside problems and that is fine, but never shut doors to other people views. They all matter. Every post here has .1 % chance to contribute to something greater and that is including you. 

Edited November 28, 2017 by George Washington

[Malachy]

1 minute ago, CTC_ClanLeader said:

For u its pointless, for others its not - maybe u are playing the wrong game. 

Or maybe you are playing the wrong game. Games are supposed to be fun, not pointless time wasters. If you want that sort of game go play a 1970s era board game. Wasting my time is not content. The sooner folks realize this the sooner we will have a better game.

[Hethwill]

People need to go out and fight, that's how we solve the PvP issue. Us. Players. Not mechanics alone. Whatever mechanics are put in place, if players do not want to fight... well... they don't

Players dumped the 1-less-dura ships. Not in fights, but broke them, gave them away to newcomers, etc.

PvP is reward in itself for many players, forget the gamey xp/cash stuff, but the bulk needs to feel that PvP was rewarding gamewise, with XP, with gold, with capturing a good ship, with having their combat victory renowned.

There's a inbalance between both activities when, for example, XP granted can be so reduced in PvP.

[Malachy]

I used to give my last dura to new players so they had a decent ship to try to learn to pvp with that didn't cost them anything. I don't even give ships to new players anymore. 

Edited November 28, 2017 by Malachy

[George Washington]

10 minutes ago, Hethwill said:

People need to go out and fight. Whatever mechanics are put in place, if players do not want to fight... well... they don't

Players dumped the 1-less-dura ships. Not in fights, but broke them, gave them away to newcomers, etc.

PvP is reward in itself for many players, forget the gamey xp/cash stuff, but the bulk needs to feel that PvP was rewarding gamewise, with XP, with gold, with capturing a good ship, with having their combat victory renowned.

There's a inbalance between both activities.

The biggest problem is time. Player invested time and got nothing. In some MMOs loosing everything is fine, but not in this one. NA World is too big to test such mechanics here. It will never work. You have only dedicated community left that are Naval Fans and yes they will defend what we have now until game is dead. 

You can paint over it with cool stuff and activities and hide it under , but in the end paint will wear out and same issue will arise again. I am very sorry that Developers do not see it after such a long time. 700 people from 100 000+ decided to stay and still play. Can this be any clearer? What those other thousands of players wanted? Why not go back and see. I am sure all what we are trying to achieve here is to give those who left this game what they wanted. 

Edited November 28, 2017 by George Washington

[Slim McSauce]

Uhh we had tons of PVP post wipe. Durability has little to do with people PVPing, as you can craft a ship from a note from for nothing now. Its not lack of ships that have people not PVPing, its the lack of finding PVP within an hour of playing that's the problem.

[George Washington]

5 minutes ago, Slim Jimmerson said:

Uhh we had tons of PVP post wipe. Durability has little to do with people PVPing, as you can craft a ship from a note from for nothing now. Its not lack of ships that have people not PVPing, its the lack of finding PVP within an hour of playing that's the problem.

Time. Let's ask Devs can they fit PvE and PvP content in one hour. Player logs in gets information , daily bonus, assignments. He can check open world map and figure out where pvp is , where pve is and he can easily find a group. He can get mods and fitting, repairs and ships in every port and quickly bring it all to pvp. Can this be squeezed into 1 hour? I think it can. Problem is we have simulator fans who will reject any arcade like idea here. 

Edited November 28, 2017 by George Washington

[Hethwill]

Time is never a problem. How to invest time might be. Any developer does develop a game with a "experience" in mind, not time. That's a player concern.

Only thing we know is -  a battle may last 90 minutes.

 

 

[Slim McSauce]

Just now, George Washington said:

Time. Let's ask Devs can they fit PvE and PvP content in one hour. Player logs in gets information , daily bonus, assignments. He can check open world map and figure out where pvp is , where pve is and he can easily find a group. He can get mods and fitting, repairs and ships in every port and quickly bring it all to pvp. Can this be squeezed into 1 hour? I think it can. 

Absolutely. We've had this before on global when there was more pop, so it is possible with a bit of dev encouragement

Edited November 28, 2017 by Slim Jimmerson

[George Washington]

11 minutes ago, Hethwill said:

Time is never a problem. How to invest time might be. Any developer does develop a game with a "experience" in mind, not time. That's a player concern.

 

 

Naval Action time requirement to unlock 1 slot on Constitution is:

1. Gather Repairs and rum. 2-5 mins

2. Sail them to your main port. 30mins-1 hour

3. Fit your ships 2-5 mins

4. Sail and look for fleets 20-30 mins

5. Chase the fleet 20-40 mins

6. Actual battle up to 30 mins (size matters)

7. 1/4 until unlock Jump out and repair , start searching for next fleet 20-30 mins

8. Repeat from Step 4-7 three more times. 

Approximately 460 Minutes=7.6 hours just to unlock 1 slot and get 4 Decent Fleet NPC fights. 

Edited November 28, 2017 by George Washington

[Hethwill]

I know. As I said, it is a player concern, that time you break down, and it is a player concern if he wants to do ALL of that in one session.

[George Washington]

3 minutes ago, Hethwill said:

I know. As I said, it is a player concern if he wants to do ALL of that in one session. Actually the majority doesn't and splits those into several sessions.

 

No one will play game like this. Not sure sure why would they design this massive time sink? Player can barely do 1 fight in an hour and if he has no repairs or ship ready he won't even try. 

Edited November 28, 2017 by George Washington

[Hethwill]

What do you mean ? The dividing the several tasks in several cruises across several playing sessions ? Of course it is done. Every day in so many games. No rush, just appreciating the experience.

Reckon some are marathonists and others are sprinters. Oh boy, how to have choices is great

[Slim McSauce]

MMOs are best played for a few hours at a time. What I meant about the 1 hour thing was finding whatever you want to do within an hour, no one wants to waste an hour looking for another player, or really anything.