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Bring back multiple durability


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42 minutes ago, Malachy said:

Maybe not quite 100 but about 6 or 7 a day and 10 a day on the weekends. My point stands, if he's only lost 3 6th rates in 4 months he's not playing. I've lost half a dozen connies and a couple other ships in that time. When you fight, you lose ships from time to time no matter how good you are.. I guess he may be hiding in the safe zone like you like to do, but he doesn't talk that way...

 

This is telling me you are sailing poorly.

If you are in a situation that you can not win or escape from, that is your mistake.  

I have not been in that situation as of late.

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No offense, but as more topics u open as more i think u should only playing NA Legends.   

Modules are the devil, not duras. Make everything at max 1%(and similar) inside the crafting options ( a lot of options). No drops. Everything open. Build any ship at your heart desire.

what would help is to dump all mods. ships are easy and cheap to get. the real pain are the mods.

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2 hours ago, Hodo said:

 

This is telling me you are sailing poorly.

If you are in a situation that you can not win or escape from, that is your mistake.  

I have not been in that situation as of late.

Then you don't ever engage folks of equal skill. No one who sails and pvp regularly never loses a ship. I'll be happy to fix that problem for you any time. When you state you haven't lost anything in 4 months you basically told me you are an easy kill because you don't fight enough to lose ships. I sail with some of the other top players on the server. We are some of the most aggressive captains on our server and we rarely lose, but we do lose. There is always someone better. I've probably had 600 pvp battles in 4 months,  I've got a Connie that has 216 battles on it since the wipe. how many have you fought? Do you have a single ship with over 20 pvp fights on it? I doubt it.

no offense intended but you strike me as a casual pvper. I am far from casual, pretty much as hardcore as they come. I regularly engage in fights where I am at a disadvantage. I fight 3 on 1s all the time. If you were engaged by 3 equal ships would you fight or run? You already said earlier you run to avoid being killled. I fight usually Even if I could run. Oh I run sometimes but most of the time I'd engage and fight. I've had fights where I am sinking, board someone, steal that ship and sink the next guy with it. That's the difference between a casual pvper and a hardcore pvper. And there's nothing wrong with being a casual pvper, it's a hell of a lot better than being a carebear. But when I am approaching a gameplay problem like this those are the lenses I am looking At it through.

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4 minutes ago, Malachy said:

Then you don't ever engage folks of equal skill. No one who sails and pvp regularly never loses a ship. I'll be happy to fix that problem for you any time. When you state you haven't lost anything in 4 months you basically told me you are an easy kill because you don't fight enough to lose ships. 

True, recently i fought one of the best players (if not the best) of the server, ram dinark - we duelee in aggies (I had only 1 slot on it but went for it anyway for some action)

The battle lasted 85 minutes (no running). And holy crap I was enjoying every second. In the end I lost but after all the overall experience was great.

This is what I love about the game, and with legends getting more battle content soon, one can just bypass 1) the fake feature of crafting due to safezones (where is the risk?) And 2) wasting hours sailing around seeing nothing.

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5 hours ago, Malachy said:

We've tested it as nausea, it's simply a chore to have to rebuild and refit every time you sink. From personal experience, I have a ship in every free port. If I lose one, I have to go back to Mortimer, rebuild a ship, find mods, install them and sail them all the way back. Back when we had multiple durability, I could be back in action pretty quick and having fun again. Now, though it's not hard to rebuild, it's a time sink that I don't have time for, so if I lose a ship I'm done for the day. Single durability has significantly reduced the number of battles a player can participate in. I'm all for realism but not at the expense of fun. 

Bring back multiple durability. Let the ship builder decide how many a ship gets and for every extra pint it takes double the resources for a single point. These multi durability ships would be more expensive, but would stimulate the economy and be a larger gold sink for players who just want to fight and not spend their days in tedious monotony.

When you just change durability this not only means ship cost has to increase. A 5 dura ship would occupy 5 dock slots. It would also require 15 upgrades. You wouldnt be able to store ships in every free port anymore. In general who decided that you should be able to settle in every free port!? Keeping one ship in each free port seems to be a bad way to handle it.

Durability isnt doing anything. What youre referring to is balancing for upgrade availiability or ship cost, ship transport and dockspace. If economy would work the market would be full of good ships, no need to build yourself. Exponentially increasing cost with durability is comparable with rentable dockspace. Durability only effects competition (less ships on the market) and the entry cost while you have to buy/craft and fit multiple ships at once. 

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12 minutes ago, Fargo said:

When you just change durability this not only means ship cost has to increase. A 5 dura ship would occupy 5 dock slots. It would also require 15 upgrades. You wouldnt be able to store ships in every free port anymore. In general who decided that you should be able to settle in every free port!? Keeping one ship in each free port seems to be a bad way to handle it.

Durability isnt doing anything. What youre referring to is balancing for upgrade availiability or ship cost, ship transport and dockspace. If economy would work the market would be full of good ships, no need to build yourself. Exponentially increasing cost with durability is comparable with rentable dockspace. Durability only effects competition (less ships on the market) and the entry cost while you have to buy/craft and fit multiple ships at once. 

5 durability ships never took more than 1 slot before. And never needed more than 1 upgrade for the 5 durability. When all 5 sank you lost your upgrades. That's pretty much how every other pvp game works and how naval action worked before they ruined it with 1 durability nonsense. No reason to have them take more now. We actually lost lots of slots when they went down to 1 durability. With multiple durability ships we all had the equivalent of 10 to 15 ships at each outpost. And battles were much more likely to Be fought to the conclusion, especially in bigger ships. Now most folks try to run if they start to lose. Why? Because they don't have the equivalent of 5 ships around and don't want to have hours of downtime between fights. No, since the days of multiple durability, pvp quality has suffered quite abit. 

And I am all for ships costing more for more durability. A ship builder should have the option to build anything with more durability except 1st rates. Capped by level of ship of courSe. The client could request a 5th rate for example that has 1 to 4 durability. 1 would be cheaper, 4 would cost about 5x as much. A 4th for eclxample could have 1 to 3, a 3rd, the same. It second rates 1-2 durability. If the client was poor they would buy the 1 durability ship, if they could afford it or really liked the ship, they could have a higher durability ship constructed. For my purposes, I would be more than happy to use 10x the resources to have  3 durability connies. 

Edited by Malachy
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Im just telling you that durability has nothing to do with any of your points. Youre talking about bringing durability back, not about bringing previous balancing back. Just changing duras wont do anything and to change something you dont need to change durability. Its just one of many variables and we have all freedom to set it to plausible values for the sake of realism.

8 minutes ago, Malachy said:

And I am all for ships costing more for more durability.

And why not introduce rentable dockspace instead to achieve the same in a much better and so much more plausible way?! 

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4 minutes ago, Fargo said:

Im just telling you that durability has nothing to do with any of your points. Youre talking about bringing durability back, not about bringing previous balancing back. Just changing duras wont do anything and to change something you dont need to change durability. Its just one of many variables and we have all freedom to set it to plausible values for the sake of realism.

And why not introduce rentable dockspace instead to achieve the same in a much better and so much more plausible way?! 

If we had 10 to 15 slots per outpost I wouldn't care that ships have only one durability. But we don't so bringing back multiple durability seems the best way to solve the problem. 

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1 minute ago, Malachy said:

If we had 10 to 15 slots per outpost I wouldn't care that ships have only one durability. But we don't so bringing back multiple durability seems the best way to solve the problem. 

Lol. No further comment required. :P

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3 hours ago, Intrepido said:

No, not at all.

The main problem here is when you loose a perfectly equipped ship with mods worth 20 times the value of the ship.

That and the painful way to get the best woods: wait to fill the contract, get a trader and sail long distances to your shipyard...

You solve those two problems, people wont complain. I think most people can craft almost every ship ingame in a reasonable time.

Except the basic problem of the inability to keep enough hulls at multiple outposts for sustained pvp efforts. I've got maxed outposts, best I can do is keep one or two ships at each. That's not nearly enough for more than a couple battles assuming they go badly. To replace a ship at any of them it's a minimum 2 hour sail. On top of building and equipping. So, mods are the least of my issue with the current system. Woods are not a problem at all. I can click any ship in moments from stored resources. The main issue is being able to keep enough hulls at various ports for sustained efforts. 

I don't see much logical argument against increasing durability on ships except a lot of "me no like" crafters would make more money, people would be more willing to fight because they have less to lose, and it's a lot easier on a noob to get ganked and lose a durability off his ship than to lose everything in one ten minute ass whupping (because they aren't really battles), and a lot of frustration and a pointless time sink would be gone from the game, leading to more pvp and more enjoyment of the game all around. Win win win win win situation in my book. @admin

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6 hours ago, Malachy said:

That's actually less hulls than we had before they changed to this dumbass single durability system I might add. So no, there is no response to that. 

No doubt, but you still dont get the point. They intentionally changed that at the same time they changed durability. Same for ship cost. But one has nothing to do with the other! Its not task of durability to balance dock space, ship cost or anything else. When dockspace is a problem i change dockspace, when cost is a problem i change cost, and when transport is a problem i change towing.

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17 minutes ago, Fargo said:

No doubt, but you still dont get the point. They intentionally changed that at the same time they changed durability. Same for ship cost. But one has nothing to do with the other! Its not task of durability to balance dock space, ship cost or anything else. When dockspace is a problem i change dockspace, when cost is a problem i change cost, and when transport is a problem i change towing.

for once i agree with malachy but probably for different reasons  ... losing a ship with rare modules is a game breaker for some people .... the grind involved and time to aquire certain upgrades means the loss isnt worth the potential gains when  deciding to  fight  or not ....so they dont fight ... unless they see a certain win ... we all know the price of certain modules in the game ...most are not going to risk a ship with these modules in a 50/50 fight ...

 

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10 minutes ago, Grundgemunkey said:

for once i agree with malachy but probably for different reasons  ... losing a ship with rare modules is a game breaker for some people .... the grind involved and time to aquire certain upgrades means the loss isnt worth the potential gains when  deciding to  fight  or not ....so they dont fight ... unless they see a certain win ... we all know the price of certain modules in the game ...most are not going to risk a ship with these modules in a 50/50 fight ...

And what has upgrade availiability to do with durability?! As i said, when you change only durability without changing current balancings a 5 dura ship would require 15 upgrades. Why balance this with durability instead of just increasing upgrade drops or access to required resources?!

Thinking that just cheap stuff would fix any issues is shortminded aswell, while the whole game from economy to conquest is simply not working. For riskfree but meaningless PvP most people are simply going to play NAL. 

Edited by Fargo
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I have to say reading some of the posts makes me laugh for various reasons. One of them is that a lot of the people posting requesting the return of multiple dura ships are the same ones posting elsewhere asking for hardcore PvP. You want hardcore then accept full loss on defeat, you bring your best and if thats not good enough well you lose all and start again. Stop being such "Carebears" about it, afraid to lose a few pixels.

Another thing that makes me laugh is that people are requesting the return of features that were in the game previously, but I am sure if you check back through the same peoples posts you will find at some stage they have criticized the Devs for bringing back things that were previously removed from the game. Personally I agree that certain features of the game that have been removed previously should be brought back if they will work this time, but I do not think multiple duras is one of them. But I will qualify that by saying that I am not a hardcore PvP player that only plays for PvP so I do not risk as many ships as they do.

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2 hours ago, Fargo said:

No doubt, but you still dont get the point. They intentionally changed that at the same time they changed durability. Same for ship cost. But one has nothing to do with the other! Its not task of durability to balance dock space, ship cost or anything else. When dockspace is a problem i change dockspace, when cost is a problem i change cost, and when transport is a problem i change towing.

Why have six ships with the exact same build sitting in port when you  can have 1 with multiple durability to accomplish the same task. No, dock space and durability are very linked. The devs didn't even want single durability, but a bunch of loud mouthed idiots pressured them into it. 

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4 minutes ago, Malachy said:

Why have six ships with the exact same build

That's a personal choice Captain. Why not have six of them of different models and builds ? That's some other player choice.

 

 

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6 minutes ago, Malachy said:

Why have six ships with the exact same build sitting in port when you  can have 1 with multiple durability to accomplish the same task. No, dock space and durability are very linked. The devs didn't even want single durability, but a bunch of loud mouthed idiots pressured them into it. 

I wonder who is the actual idiot here while youre still refusing to understand what im saying.

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1 hour ago, Archaos said:

I have to say reading some of the posts makes me laugh for various reasons. One of them is that a lot of the people posting requesting the return of multiple dura ships are the same ones posting elsewhere asking for hardcore PvP. You want hardcore then accept full loss on defeat, you bring your best and if thats not good enough well you lose all and start again. Stop being such "Carebears" about it, afraid to lose a few pixels.

Another thing that makes me laugh is that people are requesting the return of features that were in the game previously, but I am sure if you check back through the same peoples posts you will find at some stage they have criticized the Devs for bringing back things that were previously removed from the game. Personally I agree that certain features of the game that have been removed previously should be brought back if they will work this time, but I do not think multiple duras is one of them. But I will qualify that by saying that I am not a hardcore PvP player that only plays for PvP so I do not risk as many ships as they do.

It's not the loss that is the problem, it's the pointless two hour time sink to get another hull into position. By that time the fights are over and folks have moved on or logged out. I'm opposed to unnecessary pointless time sinks. We never had them before, we don't need them now.

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12 minutes ago, Fargo said:

I wonder who is the actual idiot here while youre still refusing to understand what im saying.

Make some sense and maybe we can make some headway. We tried single durability now, it's a bad system compared to what we had. 

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14 hours ago, Malachy said:

Then you don't ever engage folks of equal skill. No one who sails and pvp regularly never loses a ship. I'll be happy to fix that problem for you any time. When you state you haven't lost anything in 4 months you basically told me you are an easy kill because you don't fight enough to lose ships. I sail with some of the other top players on the server. We are some of the most aggressive captains on our server and we rarely lose, but we do lose. There is always someone better. I've probably had 600 pvp battles in 4 months,  I've got a Connie that has 216 battles on it since the wipe. how many have you fought? Do you have a single ship with over 20 pvp fights on it? I doubt it.

no offense intended but you strike me as a casual pvper. I am far from casual, pretty much as hardcore as they come. I regularly engage in fights where I am at a disadvantage. I fight 3 on 1s all the time. If you were engaged by 3 equal ships would you fight or run? You already said earlier you run to avoid being killled. I fight usually Even if I could run. Oh I run sometimes but most of the time I'd engage and fight. I've had fights where I am sinking, board someone, steal that ship and sink the next guy with it. That's the difference between a casual pvper and a hardcore pvper. And there's nothing wrong with being a casual pvper, it's a hell of a lot better than being a carebear. But when I am approaching a gameplay problem like this those are the lenses I am looking At it through.

I was pretty active for a while.  But life and other games drew me away.  I dont have the time to hunt and PVP for 6 hours a night.  

So 1 fight a night is about all I have time for with the sailing required.    And yes, I do have a ship with over 20 PVP fights on it... my Lynx. 

 

I am a "RP" PVPer... which means I RP a privateer/pirate, I dont look for "fair" fights, or fights against equal skill players.  I look for the win.  

 

I have been attacked by some of the best on Global, and I have evaded them.   I know it is a fight I cant win, I wont try to win I will leave.  This is why I sail the Lynx.  

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