Require pvp to play on pvp server

[Batman]

I don't know when I did a mission last time in Belize, but I am glad that I've got a special place in your heart.

[Christendom]

Sitting in safe zones and waiting on players to tag you is lazy pvp.  It's no surprise you aren't gonna get good results.  Go out and hunt, find some people to gank.  If you want fair contests from players who only want PVP, go hop on legends.  The beauty of the OW is people can play the game exactly how they want to.  Maybe they want to fight you, maybe they don't.  You can always gank them.  You seem the blame the safezones for everything and I'll be the first to admit that they do need to be tweaked, but most MMOs have protections to help newer and PVE players, NA is not doing anything different.  Most of the players that quit after the wipe quit before the safezones. 

More players would solve your and everyone else's problems with this game.  

[Vernon Merrill]

You know how many people I've not engaged because I've been told by the REAL Admiral (my lovely wife) that we're going out to dinner in 15 minutes??  We are all aware that NA is a huge time commitment.  YOUR schedule may not necessarily jibe with THEIR schedule.   Also, I have different ships set up for different missions.  You're damn right I'm gonna run away from a Essex when I'm in my trader-raiding Renomee...  

Deal.  With.  It.   

[victor]

11 hours ago, Slim Jimmerson said:

the #1 problem for PVP[CAREBEAR GANKING] is [NOW] finding it. We [CAREBEAR GANKERS] relied so heavily on capitals for drawing out PVP [CAREBEAR GANK], now its almost impossible to get the same numbers/consistency. Devs have taken away the natural area of focus [of CAREBEAR GANKERS], and now need to give us [CAREBEAR GANKERS] a hand crafted one before we global PVPers [CAREBEAR GANKERS] keel over and die of starvation. 

I use the statement not to refer the thing directly to Slim Jimmerson (or to anyone else specifically), but to show that, if we correct the statements therein as indicated, magically we become able to undestrand why NA action forum is full of whining PVPers that want to get rid od safe zones but - at the same time - NA legends remains half empty as well. And the reasion is: in NA Legends there is no room for CAREBEAR GANKING and the most part of the NA whiners about safe zones are CAREBEARS GANKERS that lost their favorite occupation.

Edited November 27, 2017 by victor

[Malachy]

55 minutes ago, Christendom said:

Sitting in safe zones and waiting on players to tag you is lazy pvp.  It's no surprise you aren't gonna get good results.  Go out and hunt, find some people to gank.  If you want fair contests from players who only want PVP, go hop on legends.  The beauty of the OW is people can play the game exactly how they want to.  Maybe they want to fight you, maybe they don't.  You can always gank them.  You seem the blame the safezones for everything and I'll be the first to admit that they do need to be tweaked, but most MMOs have protections to help newer and PVE players, NA is not doing anything different.  Most of the players that quit after the wipe quit before the safezones. 

More players would solve your and everyone else's problems with this game.  

Usually the sitting in safe zones happens after I've sailed accross the entire map and found nothing outside. I've been doing circuits of the entire map these days looking for pvp. Last night I sailed from la Mona all the way down the island chain to the far southeast corner of the map. Then I sailed all the way to dariena. Didn't see a single soul outside the safe zones. Don't tell me how to hunt, I've probably been at it longer than most on these forums.

[Malachy]

29 minutes ago, victor said:

I use the statement not to refer the thing directly to Slim Jimmerson (or to anyone else specifically), but to show that, if we correct the statements therein as indicated, magically we become able to undestrand why NA action forum is full of whining PVPers that want to get rid od safe zones but - at the same time - NA legends remains half empty as well. And the reasion is: in NA Legends there is no room for CAREBEAR GANKING and the most part of the NA whiners about safe zones are CAREBEARS GANKERS that lost their favorite occupation.

You are wrong. The reason legends is unnatractive is there is no thrill of the hunt. It's also buggy as hell.

[Hethwill]

When trade had to be conducted everywhere... and things were "rare" ( between "" because they weren't, they just had to be picked up somewhere, far away, and trade raid was a real danger)... the uproar was big...

... then capturable ships came back...

... still not enough.... then higher mission rewards and cheaper shop ships... still not enough...

... now everything is accessible within the Zone, with some notable exceptions.

 

[Christendom]

23 minutes ago, Malachy said:

Usually the sitting in safe zones happens after I've sailed accross the entire map and found nothing outside. I've been doing circuits of the entire map these days looking for pvp. Last night I sailed from la Mona all the way down the island chain to the far southeast corner of the map. Then I sailed all the way to dariena. Didn't see a single soul outside the safe zones. Don't tell me how to hunt, I've probably been at it longer than most on these forums.

You’re doing it wrong then.  I always find action down in Dane land or swedistan.  Not necessarily the action I can always handle, but it’s there for those who are patient.  

stop expecting other players to play this game exactly how you play it.  If you want instant gratification go hop on legends.  

[Quineloe]

17 hours ago, Malachy said:

Like I said before, I'm not here to be anyone's friend, quite the opposite actually. I play all games for pvp. Nothing else matters to me and if you don't pvp, I could care less if you exist. I have made Friends and aquaintances in game, based upon pvp. I left Britain because I was tired of being in an entire nation of cowards too afraid to leave the safe zone. 

I don't think you understand what toxic means. Your suggestion would straight up murder this game. Belly up, gg game over.

And if you're seriously debating, why can't you answer the simple question about the PVP "carrot"?

Edited November 27, 2017 by Quineloe

[Malachy]

3 minutes ago, Christendom said:

You’re doing it wrong then.  I always find action down in Dane land or swedistan.  Not necessarily the action I can always handle, but it’s there for those who are patient.  

stop expecting other players to play this game exactly how you play it.  If you want instant gratification go hop on legends.  

Only Danes or swedes I saw were in safe zones and not about to come out. Same with the french. And the Dutch. And it's always that way with the brits. Sometimes Spain will fight but it's hot or miss and usually they only come out when the odds are 7 to 1 in their favor lol. 

I want people to play the game period. Right now we have a couple folks that are brace enough to leave the zones and 99 percent of the population is content to stay where it's nice and safe and carebear away. 

Edited November 27, 2017 by Malachy

[Hethwill]

 

[victor]

14 hours ago, Malachy said:

You are wrong. The reason legends is unnatractive is there is no thrill of the hunt. It's also buggy as hell.

You do not realize that you just confirmed my point.

Thrill of the Hunt? What thrill?

I play this game as well, so I know that, if you sail around capitals (let's say that there are nolonger free zones), you can meet just to scenarios:

1) you meet another PVPer in a similar ship (or your group meets a fairly similar group): the players or the groups will just go straight one in the face of the other (so no hunt here).

2) you meet a trader or a lone player in an inferior ship: there there is a hunt (in the sense of a pursuit) but only because - and when - a part of the fight is clearly stronger than the other!

So - basically - your last post confirms that ganking or be ganked is your concept of OS PVP.

But, in case by hunt you mean saling around in the OS looking for preys, than wiping out the free zones will not grant you any hunt anyway, since free zones around capital are rather small areas in which there is no hunt at all: you are just pretty sure to find something (and in most of case it will be a trader or a missioner in a PVE fitted ship!).

 

[victor]

14 hours ago, Malachy said:

I want people to play the game period.

We do. If you do not like the way we do, it's your problem, not ours.

That's basically the reason why your OP makes so little sense, mate!

Edited November 28, 2017 by victor

[fox2run]

On ‎26‎-‎11‎-‎2017 at 4:35 AM, Malachy said:

You could find pvp on the pvp servers. All the time, any time. People played on those servers to fight, not run missions in the reinforcement zones. If you left port, you expected to fight, not be protected by AI and ignore player combat. Enemy players didn't boldly sit in your capitals harbor without being attacked. 

Most so when ships was cheap and easier to get (multiple duras) and the battles open so you could reinforce them. It was my favorite game back then. Now i dont play it anymore. Its incredible that a GREAT 9 out of 10 star game got crushed by its own community... 

The die hards forgot that 90% of payers like a FUN game and not a 1:1 time scale in wooden ships. The fun participating stopped when more and more restrict rules where implemented down the road. What should have been small tweaks, ended up with restrictions and killed the player-base. In the beginning a lot of optimism with new ships, flags, contend and a great community created a great atmosphere.

But as time progressed nothing but restrictions and wipes saw the day. So players quit. The hard-cores took over forums and devs listened to them despite warnings. We foresaw the downfall of the game, but yet no one listened at all. On the contrary a lot of hard cores isolated critisism and asked for even more grind and non-fun game play. 

The question is if the devs could go back on track or the time has passed beyond the repairable? Hard to tell. Its long bewteen new contend. Most is about how to please the clan based play and not the single player base. Before it was great, that you as single player could join a nation and have this "nation-feel" and choose between hard-core PBs and loose single-play. Now you are forced into hard core TS-clans. Its not in everyones taste. As toxic as it is, many choose other games instead. I did that, and I guess Im not alone looking at the stats. 

Now there are about 5% left from the good old days. The problem is that the game stopped in its progress about two years ago and really dont move anywhere. Maybe Im wrong, but thats just the feeling I got.

Todays stars? I would give it 3 or maybe 4 out of ten on a good day...

 

 

Edited November 28, 2017 by fox2run

[jodgi]

1 hour ago, fox2run said:

Now there are about 5% left from the good old days.

I seriously doubt that. It's mostly new-ish guys from after EA.

Just pretend for a moment you made this game...

...

Some players say that the game caters too much to pvp'ers and normal players who aren't protected or helped quit in frustration.

Some say that there isn't enough PVE content and people would continue to play if they just had pve stuff to do.

Some believe if the eco was deeper and more meaningful (whatever that means?!) more people would stay.

Some say they eventually get bored of pve and eco and the game needs to revolve around pvp for them to stay.

Some people get motivated by rare loot drops to keep going back into OW, others stepped back because of it.

Some people say sailing takes too long, others say it's the slow feeling of the age of sail that makes them stay.

Some players want forever open battles and different forms of reinforcements, others want wysiwyg ow hunting.

...

The above is nowhere near a complete list of the different opinions floating around here. How would you know the good bits from the bad?

I know what I want and you know what you want... I guess? I can get behind your main principles of more fun and less boring grindy stuff. You're a bit foggy about how to achieve that; You seem to want solo-ish pvp. Great, me too. But you want open battles and reinforcements beyond the time/space limits of the OW battle instance? In my view that's one of the most clan and big group enabling feature you can have, solo and small group play is threatened by such (ofc, imo). 

Now, say what YOU want all you like. I do.

It's tiring when you pretend to know what works for everyone else:

2 hours ago, fox2run said:

We foresaw the downfall of the game, but yet no one listened at all.

I would have a hard time motivating myself to play your idea of a perfect OW.

[Grundgemunkey]

bring back  flags  for rvr  multiple dura ships ... no safe zones ... and nerf the  upgrades modules and skill books .... at the moment ..,, ships and ports are too valuable .... it makes players cautious ..... ships are valuable not for their build but for the modules fitted ... do you really want to risk your prize ship on a 1v 3 pvp fight ?? ...very very few do .... ports are too valuable .. because of the resources available ... spread the resources around more ... its ridiculous that resources for certian woods .. or upgrades in some cases are only available in 1 or 2 ports

for too may players the loss of a ship or port becomes a game breaking disaster .. instead of the small hiccup but who cares anyway it was fun scenario it used to be ...

the hardcore vocal minority are strangling the game ... .the majority  are fed up the restrictions  of you cant compete unless you have this or that op upgrade  when the only option to obtain the meta is ... pve grind so you can afford to buy the op upgrade which is boring   ... you cant obtain the upgrade through pvp ,, because  your opponent already has it so you will lose 

the decision to pvp then becomes ... i can sit in the safe zone for x hours until i can afford to buy x upgrade .... so i can compete ... or I can go out in my inferior ship  and get demasted and boarded in 5 mins ... then go get another  rinse and repeat and all you are doing is providing fun content for someone else and having none yourself ..

guess what most do ............ neither they stop playing

 

Edited November 28, 2017 by Grundgemunkey

[Fletch]

You need the safe zones to give new players half a chance. Most people who complain about a lack of pvp are really complaining about lack of a  fresh suppply of noobs to slaughter without any risk to themselves.  The game was almost fished clean a short while ago.

A lot of skilled players also flock to the most skilled clans rather than trying to fight against each other, they would rather join together to fight less skilled players because they can post pictures on the forums and expand their already over inflated egos with pictures of one sided fights  

Its a game that gives you certain parameters what you do with your time is entirely your own choice just get on with it 

Right now the balance seems good between helping new players get started without idiots greifing them into quiting the game.

[fox2run]

On ‎27‎-‎11‎-‎2017 at 2:57 PM, Malachy said:

That wasn't my experience. Pvp dropped off considerably after the wipe and never recovered. The so called new folks that were supposed to shore up numbers learned that there is no reason to venture out of the safe zones. So when the veterans got fed up with the grind, no one replaced them. Hence this thread. 

Where is blackjack Morgan? Shrouded recluse? Sir Robert Calder, a litany of others? Gone. And not likely to return even for launch. 

Bad anti gank policy and the endless grind have turned off so many players I can't even keep count. With already faltering numbers, the developers may want to think long and hard before wiping more than just ships and gold. The only way I'd do the grind again would be if they made a pure pvp server without all the safe zones and pve protection bullshit.

 

This can only go hand in hand with spendable ships and long opening times in battles.

 

[Yngvarr]

On 11/26/2017 at 4:13 AM, Malachy said:

I'd take 50 players who fight over 500 that hide in green zones afraid to lose their pixels.  I play this game for pvp, not the great economy or the stellar AI (and if you can't detect the sarcasm, I'm sorry). If a person isn't out pvping, I have zero use for them, so I wouldn't really notice any difference if they all quit.

Sounds like you'd be better of shoving off to Naval Action Legends.

You can't dictate other people on how to play the game, and neither can you force the dev's into making changes to the game because you want them.

 

and this....is why developers should never listen to the tiny group of Hardcore PVP'ers.

Cause they'll murder the game completely for any other player besides themselves...

 

Edited November 29, 2017 by Yngvarr

[jodgi]

11 minutes ago, Yngvarr said:

Sounds like you'd be better of shoving off to Naval Action Legends.

You don't want as many players as possible in OW?

14 minutes ago, Yngvarr said:

and this....is why developers should never listen to the tiny group of Hardcore PVP'ers.

Maybe the so-called "hardcore PVP'ers" is a tiny group. But we would like to include as many as possible into the group "People who would like to PVP without getting fun-taxed for it". We're very inclusive and we want as many as possible to have as much fun as possible.

I wish the eco-fans were as nice as us...

 

[jodgi]

14 hours ago, fox2run said:

This can only go hand in hand with spendable ships and long opening times in battles.

Based on your forum profile "birthday": You never did get to test 10 (or was it even 20?) minute open battles?

[fox2run]

22 minutes ago, jodgi said:

Based on your forum profile "birthday": You never did get to test 10 (or was it even 20?) minute open battles?

I remember long opening times and multiple duras back then. It was the most fun game. 2000 online and battles all over the map! Then all the fun stuff was cut away becourse hard cores didnt like battles apparantly... Naval action went downhill and now its just a boring game...

[Landsman]

2 minutes ago, fox2run said:

It was the most fun game. 2000 online and battles all over the map!

No shit sherlock, it was when the game was somewhat new and hyped and not because of multi duras or open battles - both mechanics are complete garbage and we have seen that the majority of the community dislikes them...

[Yngvarr]

11 minutes ago, jodgi said:

You don't want as many players as possible in OW?

Maybe the so-called "hardcore PVP'ers" is a tiny group. But we would like to include as many as possible into the group "People who would like to PVP without getting fun-taxed for it". We're very inclusive and we want as many as possible to have as much fun as possible.

I wish the eco-fans were as nice as us...

 

I do want more players in OW, i would love to have a much larger population in the game.

However, there needs to be a balance between the wishes of PVE and PVP players.

I'm quite open-minded towards this, but others are not.

Some suggestions:

• Give XP and Marks for damage done in battle, even when lost (when i get ganked by 4 ships with a huge BR difference, and lose my ship, even when i did damage to the enemy ships, i get very little in the "reward" department, making this a very sour apple to bite through.)(to promote PVP somewhat, even when losing.

• Reduce the PVP rewards if the BR's of both parties are hugely different, like say 1000 BR vs 150 BR. (in the hopes of reducing ganking, promoting more "fair" PVP)
• Limit reinforcement zones only to the regional capital, not all ports of the region.(to reduce the green zones, solves overlap between reinforcement zones)
• Standardize PVP and PVE marks under 1 currency, and make all upgrades/ refits purchasable by this currency. (rewards being tuned to be slightly higher in PVP, so everybody can have the same stuff on their ships)
• Reduce the enormous advantage that some upgrades give, the game has become more about who has the better upgrades and less about who has more skill. (6% OW speed, really?)
• Introduce missions of the "hunt and destroy" or "escort" variety, not being crossed swords on the map, but rather an OW fleet that moved around, with only a general region being provided as to their location.(Escort missions could be announced ingame, giving other players a possibility to intercept).(for example: Spain is bringing in reinforcements towards Havana to aid with the war effort: Spain needs to escort the fleet to Havana, British could attack it in the hope of sinking it, successful escort might give Spain some type of benefit for a certain amount of time)
• Certain items need to become more available and less rare/ costly. This is a big threshold that is keeping potential PVP players at bay because they fear losing ships/ upgrades that are not easy to replace without a lot of grinding.

Just my 2 cents.

 

 

[z4ys]

4 minutes ago, fox2run said:

... 2000 online...

You may mistake it with EA hype