Eliminate small ship griefing

[Malachy]

Another option is to make it so that all ships in a group have to have at least 80 percent of the defenders crew in order to begin a battle. This would mean at least 4 snows vs a Connie and that would be more realistic and maybe give them a prayer of a chance of winning.

[victor]

5 minutes ago, rediii said:

 

you won a snow (or a prince, if you prefer) .

Edited November 13, 2017 by victor

[Sella]

1 minute ago, rediii said:

please put a fjreship fitting on it and explode it on the next occasion

Still a valid tactic.

[Gregory Rainsborough]

22 minutes ago, Malachy said:

How about you sail a real ship instead of some little speed boat that doesn't have a prayer of turning my Connie. Even at 40 percent sails a snow can't board my Connieand three can't even turn it. All I need to do is pop a sail repair every ten minutes and put a broadside into your worthless little boat while sailing downwind. It's boring and a waste of my time. Shit ships should fight other shit ships not ships they shouldn't be fighting in the first place. 

I should be able to go out solo in the ship of my choice and not have to worry about jackasses in 6th rates wasting an hour and a half of my time. 

Just because you like these little trash boats and enjoy wasting people's time doesn't need mean I should be forced to play your game. 

Ive never been killed by a snow or even a group of them in a connie. It's really easy to prevent them from taking out a 4th rate if you know what you are doing. But they have way too much maneuverability and armor to effectively end the fight. 

I didn't ask them to be nerfed, all i want is to have fun in game without being griefed for an hour and a half. Maybe a mechanic where if a ship doesn't do over 25 percent armor damage to the broadside in 25 minutes the defending ship can automatically escape?

"Everyone should be able to sail in whatever ship they like and fight only when it is convenient for them"*

*What you're essentially saying.

[Malachy]

1 minute ago, Gregory Rainsborough said:

"Everyone should be able to sail in whatever ship they like and fight only when it is convenient for them"*

*What you're essentially saying.

No, I'm saying people like you shouldn't be able to waste other people's time for an hour and a half. This is the same problem we had with basic cutters and why basic cutters were changed. The developers were not foresighted enough to realize the griefing would continue in a slightly bigger small ship. 

[Gregory Rainsborough]

2 minutes ago, Malachy said:

No, I'm saying people like you shouldn't be able to waste other people's time for an hour and a half. This is the same problem we had with basic cutters and why basic cutters were changed. The developers were not foresighted enough to realize the griefing would continue in a slightly bigger small ship. 

Basic cutters were removed because there was no downside to using them. I pour millions into each Snow so for me, there is a downside to me losing it.

Why should I fight in a way that is convenient for you?

Edited November 13, 2017 by Gregory Rainsborough

[Hethwill]

National pride ships, like Victory, and other similar models, should be under Admiralty rules to be used in the proper way as directed by the rules of war.

Meaning, as per the rules of engagement they shall sail only when in company of a retinue. More so, they shall only set sail in the most dire and consequential of conflicts, such as Napoleonic threat to Mediterranean and West Indies trade routes by seeking and destroying the enemy fleet. Otherwise will be kept in port or in station, relegating other patrol duties and blockades to the more capable 74 guns.

[Malachy]

3 minutes ago, Gregory Rainsborough said:

Basic cutters were removed because there was no downside to using them. I pour millions into each Snow so for me. There is a downside to me losing it.

Why should I fight in a way that is convenient for you?

Fair point but you can't really lose your snow vs a Connie in current game conditions. Which means you aren't really risking anything. All you have to do is sail upwind, keep the Connie tagged and repeat after twenty minutes or so. 

So to be fair, I guess we should make it so a snow is one shot by a 4th rate. That way you are risking at least a fraction of what I am.

Edited November 13, 2017 by Malachy

[Gregory Rainsborough]

2 minutes ago, Malachy said:

Fair point but you can't really lose your snow vs a Connie in current game conditions. Which means you aren't really risking anything. All you have to do is sail upwind, keep the Connie tagged and repeat after twenty minutes or so. 

So to be fair, I guess we should make it so a snow is one shot by a 4th rate. That way you are risking at least a fraction of what I am.

 

Get a decent tag and a Connie can destroy a Snow. It hasn't happened recently but I have lost to Connies before. A good tag and not demasting at the outset and you should be fine. That's why I was so thrown in my battle with Rediii a few days ago. Usually HRE members always go for demast rather than chain and as a result I was crippled throughout the entire match sailwise. I couldn't withdraw 'cus otherwise I'd have died but then I realised he'd run out of rum so kept it up.

It is situational most of the time. The captain is the reason they die, not the ship. If people started putting carros on their rear as a norm I'd be screwed.

[Malachy]

I've got a better idea. Make max pvp marks come from ships of your own size up to 4th rates. You get less for the ones below and above you and none at all of thee is more than 2 class differences. 

[Hethwill]

9 minutes ago, Malachy said:

I've got a better idea. Make max pvp marks come from ships of your own size up to 4th rates. You get less for the ones below and above you and none at all of thee is more than 2 class differences. 

That extrapolated with number of ships & BR difference as well, not only class.

Very old suggestion btw. Glad it is never forgotten.

[Sang Noir]

29 minutes ago, Malachy said:

Another option is to make it so that all ships in a group have to have at least 80 percent of the defenders crew in order to begin a battle. This would mean at least 4 snows vs a Connie and that would be more realistic and maybe give them a prayer of a chance of winning.

I am totally with you - if you make it the other way round as well. The BR of the attacking force shouldn't be more than 180%  of the defender (or something around that). 

[Malachy]

Just now, Jean de la Rochelle said:

I am totally with you - if you make it the other way round as well. The BR of the attacking force shouldn't be more than 180%  of the defender (or something around that). 

That's how it was in potbs and it worked great. And battles closed only once the Br was close to the same. If there was an imbalance the battle stayed open until the defending side equaled the attacking side.

[Sang Noir]

32 minutes ago, victor said:

you won a snow (or a prince, if you prefer) .

Since Snows are officially the strongest ship in NA as of now, it would be a worthy price ... 😉😝

[Liq]

Please no magic BR walls preventing tags. Current min 1/5 of the BR is fine.

[Malachy]

1 minute ago, Liq said:

Please no magic BR walls preventing tags. Current min 1/5 of the BR is fine.

I disagree. That's what has led to snow griefing.

[Sang Noir]

Just now, Malachy said:

That's how it was in potbs and it worked great. And battles closed only once the Br was close to the same. If there was an imbalance the battle stayed open until the defending side equaled the attacking side.

Sounds valid to me and gives the defender a chance for being reinforced. Simple but effective mechanic. 👍🏽

[Malachy]

2 minutes ago, Jean de la Rochelle said:

Since Snows are officially the strongest ship in NA as of now, it would be a worthy price ... 😉😝

I call them shit ships for a reason. They aren't strongest l, they are just annoying. 

[Malachy]

I hesitated for a long time before posting this topic, but I think there is a good middle ground here, we just have to find it.

[Hodo]

8 hours ago, Malachy said:

2. Make all sixth rates newbie ships like the basic cutter. Allow them to be tagged or into port battles but unable to tag anything larger than a 5th rate. There is not a single historical record of a 6th rate defeating a 4th or larger in combat or boarding action. This solution allows them to defend themselves but eliminates the sort of griefing that has become endless these days. I prefer solution 2 but solution 1 would work. Right now these guys have nothing to lose and everything to gain by griefing larger ships. There either needs to be considerabley more risk for them or the possible rewards need to be removed. 

@admin

LOL Wrong

Roberts next headed for Sierra Leone, arriving on 12 June. Here he was told that two Royal Navy ships, HMS Swallow and HMS Weymouth, had left at the end of April, planning to return before Christmas.^[29] On 8 August, he captured two large ships at Point Cestos, now River Cess in Liberia. One of these was the frigate Onslow, transporting soldiers bound for Cape Coast (Cabo Corso) Castle. A number of the soldiers wished to join the pirates, and they were eventually accepted, however they only received a quarter of a pirates pay because they were not sailors most of their lives. The Onslow was converted to become the fourth Royal Fortune.^[30] In November and December, the pirates careened their ships and relaxed at Cape Lopez and the island of Annobon.

Black Bart.. or Bartholomew Roberts, captured a 5th rate and was sailing an unrated ship (6th rate).

 

I often hunt in a 6th rate on the EU server... and if you as a 4th rate captain can not handle a pair of 6th rates then you need to look at your sailing practices.   They are just out sailing you sir, and thus you need to learn to sail better.   Even the current Constitution can turn enough to get a broadside into a Snow, and if you use chain or just aim for the masts you can cripple that ship before it can do anything.   But if you are rocking carronades for PVE missions, well that is on you.  

The Constitution, Wasa, and Wappen all turn as well as a Trincomalee and Belle now so no reason for you to have issues with such a little ship.

 

I myself have been chased off by a well captained LGV, who on paper didnt stand a chance vs my Prince.   But he was able to pull a great maneuver that put me squarely in his broadside....  I didnt like that 10 gun 9lb chain into my sails....  and I was forced to pull off and come around for a better pass and he just sailed away at his best point and left me.

[Lz3]

35 minutes ago, Hodo said:

LOL Wrong

Roberts next headed for Sierra Leone, arriving on 12 June. Here he was told that two Royal Navy ships, HMS Swallow and HMS Weymouth, had left at the end of April, planning to return before Christmas.^[29] On 8 August, he captured two large ships at Point Cestos, now River Cess in Liberia. One of these was the frigate Onslow, transporting soldiers bound for Cape Coast (Cabo Corso) Castle. A number of the soldiers wished to join the pirates, and they were eventually accepted, however they only received a quarter of a pirates pay because they were not sailors most of their lives. The Onslow was converted to become the fourth Royal Fortune.^[30] In November and December, the pirates careened their ships and relaxed at Cape Lopez and the island of Annobon.

Black Bart.. or Bartholomew Roberts, captured a 5th rate and was sailing an unrated ship (6th rate).

 

I often hunt in a 6th rate on the EU server... and if you as a 4th rate captain can not handle a pair of 6th rates then you need to look at your sailing practices.   They are just out sailing you sir, and thus you need to learn to sail better.   Even the current Constitution can turn enough to get a broadside into a Snow, and if you use chain or just aim for the masts you can cripple that ship before it can do anything.   But if you are rocking carronades for PVE missions, well that is on you.  

The Constitution, Wasa, and Wappen all turn as well as a Trincomalee and Belle now so no reason for you to have issues with such a little ship.

 

I myself have been chased off by a well captained LGV, who on paper didnt stand a chance vs my Prince.   But he was able to pull a great maneuver that put me squarely in his broadside....  I didnt like that 10 gun 9lb chain into my sails....  and I was forced to pull off and come around for a better pass and he just sailed away at his best point and left me.

Exactly.

 

Malachy your opinion  went from snows being plain annoying and incapable of anything to snows being not-hittable but capable to now snows being overpowered as I read through this - really?

If you can't hit a snow in a wasa and then kill them when they are severely crippled you are doing something wrong. I still don't believe your "over 6 hours" in battle. You are over exaggerating to make a point

 

Simple fixes to the 'griefing' you describe:

1. Don't sail ships of the line alone and then complain when being attacked by smaller vessels. Sailing alone in a big ship is a recipe for disaster 

2. Learn to counter these smaller vessels by manouvering correctly. Read the post I quoted. You want to remove an entire class of ship from PvP just because you cannot counter them, let that sink in just like your ship won't if you took the time writing this learning how to out sail 6th rates 

Edited November 13, 2017 by Lz3

[Lz3]

59 minutes ago, Malachy said:

I hesitated for a long time before posting this topic, but I think there is a good middle ground here, we just have to find it.

Let's see both sides:

- Malachy

• wants to exclude 6th rates from attacking in PvP

• finds the snow is annoying to him when sailing a bigger ship 

 

- 6th rate players and other 

• don't want to exclude 6th rate from PvP

• find the snow a great and capable weapon if used correctly 

 

 

Now, propose your middle ground? 

[Landsman]

9 hours ago, Malachy said:

I'd love to see all ships used, but within limits. Leave the shallow ships in the shallows. They have no place in large ship pvp. In real life they were courriers and scouts. They saw a large ship they ran as fast As they could, they didn't engage them, and those that were forced to struck their colors.

I agree but they really need more shallow regions for this... currently we only have one big and a few rather small. Once they have enough room for shallow ship only combat, they should increase damage of big guns to small ships alot. Still think repairs make the problem worse tho...

[Hodo]

1 minute ago, Lz3 said:

Let's see both sides:

- Malachy

• wants to exclude 6th rates from attacking in PvP

• finds the snow is annoying to him when sailing a bigger ship 

 

- 6th rate players and other 

• don't want to exclude 6th rate from PvP

• find the snow a great and capable weapon if used correctly 

 

 

Now, propose your middle ground? 

The funny thing is I still hate the Snow. 

I think it bobs like a cork in the water and the gundeck is low and often hits water more than your target.

The Prince, Brig, Mercury and Navy Brig are all better 6th rates in a good captains hands.

[Landsman]

9 hours ago, Vernon Merrill said:

and *ahem* HMS Speedy vs. El Gamo *ahem*

Holy shit, this is awesome.