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Hotfix for patch 13. Le Gros Ventre Refit + Swivels!!!

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10 hours ago, z4ys said:

I like it. Feels more like it should be. Now we just missing better sail area control and maybe every mast with independent control

Just a reminder that this isn't the historical method of tacking. It was generally detrimental to depower the fore yards, and in the video the rotation of the after yards occurs way too soon. And the gamey method offers a big advantage over the historical method. When I try to tack authentically, I always make a bit of sternway.

I'm really not sure how this could be fixed without scripted solutions, though.

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1 hour ago, maturin said:

Just a reminder that this isn't the historical method of tacking. It was generally detrimental to depower the fore yards, and in the video the rotation of the after yards occurs way too soon. And the gamey method offers a big advantage over the historical method. When I try to tack authentically, I always make a bit of sternway.

I'm really not sure how this could be fixed without scripted solutions, though.

Depowering like the vid is not necessary. You can make the same tack without depowering.

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Just now, Malachy said:

Depowering like the vid is not necessary. You can make the same tack without depowering.

The idea behind it so the main sails catch more wind force to increase turn rate. It causes slight speed loss but should help with turning speed.

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Just now, Peter Goldman said:

The idea behind it so the main sails catch more wind force to increase turn rate. It causes slight speed loss but should help with turning speed.

I know... but vile and I made the same tack in the same time without depowering. Doesn't seem to affect anything to depower. Was more an FYI in case folks wanted I skip a step. 

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12 hours ago, admin said:

to everyone

Individual sails are awesome but hard to control in a multiplayer game (they will work great in a single player game though where everything can be slower)

It would be enough to be able to just set staysails OR square sails.

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3 hours ago, Malachy said:

Depowering like the vid is not necessary. You can make the same tack without depowering.

 

3 hours ago, Peter Goldman said:

The idea behind it so the main sails catch more wind force to increase turn rate. It causes slight speed loss but should help with turning speed.

Yep i noticed that depowering makes the turn radius smaller. Especially when you want to turn into the wind direction (180° to 90°). You suffer speed thats right but it improves turnrate a lot.

I dont claim my tack as perfect but at least it was done without reverse distance and I hope i can help some fellow captains who struggle to tack because of the new force model.

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I think this whole thing might need some tuning over time. However I presently see the following Pros and Cons:

- PROS

Though NA isn't supposed to be a sail simulator strictly speaking, adding more realism to ship sailing patterns makes the experience more immersive.

Now in a PB, you better bring some ships with Latin sails to go cap or hunt down the mortar brigs sitting way out. Could be cool to see separate fights occurring in different areas of the battle instance where ships of same sail types regroup. 

Square sails will no longer have the same radius of action as they have today. Weather gauge will become all the more important.

-CONS

In OW, this new change really cripples all square sails from getting anywhere unless the destination is downwind and not far out. With wind turning in a clockwise direction on a preset schedule, you know that you're going nowhere for many many minutes at some stage!

In OW, even with the time acceleration, moving ships is going to be incredibly painful. Here's where realism hinders the enjoyable aspect of the game.

 

What I'd like to see: 

Variable wind directions that don't obey a mechanical rule but would be like a couple hours of wind coming from a set direction and variable wind force that further effects ships by size.

Probably too complicated but no harm asking :)

Edited by la Touche-Treville
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6 hours ago, Malachy said:

I know... but vile and I made the same tack in the same time without depowering. Doesn't seem to affect anything to depower. Was more an FYI in case folks wanted I skip a step. 

hello im new.

Can someone tell me where is the difference? It was like that before aswell wasnt it? Against the wind and on 90" not as much but yea ...

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21 minutes ago, rediii said:

hello im new.

Can someone tell me where is the difference? It was like that before aswell wasnt it? Against the wind and on 90" not as much but yea ...

In the video they depowered to Lower turn radius. You can do the same without depowering was all I was saying. Just have to adjust your sails at the right time. You lose the same amount of speed either way and neither starts a reverse.

Edited by Malachy

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2 minutes ago, Malachy said:

In the video they depowered to Lower turn radius. You can do the same without depowering was all I was saying. Just have to adjust your sails at the right time. You lose the same amount of speed either way and neither starts a reverse.

I just dont know whats the difference at all to the system we had before? More wind in the sails and you are slower upwind?

Because you were able to slow down turning your sails against the wind and depower without the new aga too. From what I see (didnt test yet) its the same like before just with more wind?

(I also have no idea of real sailing)

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23 minutes ago, rediii said:

I just dont know whats the difference at all to the system we had before? More wind in the sails and you are slower upwind?

Because you were able to slow down turning your sails against the wind and depower without the new aga too. From what I see (didnt test yet) its the same like before just with more wind?

(I also have no idea of real sailing)

Basically the new Agamemnon handles more like a real ship. Tacking through the wind is detrimental to speed more so than before. Also it sails backwards if you point your sails right (or wrong) now. Sailing at any point under 90 you may as well not, even on the os. However down wind, it handles like a dream. Combat is going to be a lot different if they move all ships tomthisnsort of model.

Basically turning endlessly isn't going to work. People are going to have to work with the wind not against it.

Edited by Malachy
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3 hours ago, z4ys said:

 

Yep i noticed that depowering makes the turn radius smaller. Especially when you want to turn into the wind direction (180° to 90°). You suffer speed thats right but it improves turnrate a lot.

I dont claim my tack as perfect but at least it was done without reverse distance and I hope i can help some fellow captains who struggle to tack because of the new force model.

The way vile and I did it requires some precise sail and rudder control. I wasn't saying either way was better, just letting folks know it's could be done either way.

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7 hours ago, Malachy said:

Depowering like the vid is not necessary. You can make the same tack without depowering.

I know it's not necessary. But it's a large advantage. The tack goes much faster. Doing it the historical way, it takes nearly a minute just to get your nose in the wind, with -0.5 kts of speed.

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After some tests, it's going to be some time before I get the hang of the new "wind and sails" in battle.

I do like it, but I think the reality of the OW speeds is not good. I know a number of people, including myself, complain about the time it takes to sail places, even more so when you're sailing against the wind. I really do wish OW travel would not be so negatively affected they way it is on the aggie right now.

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I think OW speeds should not be as effected by the wind as they are.   Or have regional wind directions.  Like along the US East coast wind should predominantly travel south to north. 

Or ideally like the wind in this VERY old MMO.

 

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New sailing profile more realistic, but how many more players will drop the game because of it, I dunno.

I'll stick around, to see where the journey ends.

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if the way the new Agamemnon handles is a taste of the other ships sailing profiles then I love it. Fighting for wind advantage in combat is extremely useful and would be even more so a necessity with this setup. If you own the wind you own the sea. Though, I would like to see how people would react to the change of how port battles fought. But in my opinion, this is a great change. I would like to see how this will effect certain 5th rates aswell as the 6th rates.

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1 hour ago, maturin said:

I know it's not necessary. But it's a large advantage. The tack goes much faster. Doing it the historical way, it takes nearly a minute just to get your nose in the wind, with -0.5 kts of speed.

You don't need to depower to achieve the same results. Message me in game tonight and I'll show you how.

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1 hour ago, Hodo said:

I think OW speeds should not be as effected by the wind as they are.   Or have regional wind directions.  Like along the US East coast wind should predominantly travel south to north. 

Or ideally like the wind in this VERY old MMO.

 

I agree with this. 

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11 hours ago, Malachy said:

I know... but vile and I made the same tack in the same time without depowering. Doesn't seem to affect anything to depower. Was more an FYI in case folks wanted I skip a step. 

But you're bleeding speed hard if you depower, so since you're slower with depower but still turn as fast, doesn't that mean that depowering increases the turn rate from the square sails?

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14 minutes ago, Quineloe said:

But you're bleeding speed hard if you depower, so since you're slower with depower but still turn as fast, doesn't that mean that depowering increases the turn rate from the square sails?

Doesn't seem to. Tried both ways, neither turn seemed to be any tighter. It's possible that you are bleeding speed so fast anyhow that you can't bleed it any faster by depowering. I will say this though, you don't want to turn through the wind if any enemy is close. Instant rage board lol. 

On another note, we also noticed that main sail force mods did not affect turning with the new profile. The Agamemnon running full force turned exactly the same as the one that was force free. 

Have not tested with staysail force yet.

Edited by Malachy

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2 hours ago, Vile Executioner said:

if the way the new Agamemnon handles is a taste of the other ships sailing profiles then I love it. Fighting for wind advantage in combat is extremely useful and would be even more so a necessity with this setup. If you own the wind you own the sea. Though, I would like to see how people would react to the change of how port battles fought. But in my opinion, this is a great change. I would like to see how this will effect certain 5th rates aswell as the 6th rates.

What exactly is it that the new wind allows that it didn't before? And I don't mean reversing at beam reach.

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