Poll on limited use of repairs in battles

[Fargo]

@rediii 

You cant call it skill to turn away, hit repair and wait. Repairs have 0 conditions that would require skill to use it.

Repairs can be unlimited, but you must not be allowed to repair back to 100% of anthing. And there have to be serious conditions restricting the use of repairs. I often proposed to make repairs only possible in battle sails, there are probably further options.

Such examples arent important, there are enough examples showing how broken repairs can be. Tournament has the goal to sink each other, is not representing OW PvP. Try to explain why current repairs are not totally unrealistic, and how it is reasonable to repair from 10% back to 100%. How they dont allow fast ships to fool around with you. How they dont allow easy escaping even from close range situations, highly promoting gank tactics. 

[Cmdr RideZ]

1 hour ago, troody said:

a clear NO

its skill-based to use the right repairs in the right moment! plz dont change it and make it one-dimensional again....

Dont know about your dimensions but unlimited healing potions definitely lower the skill cap, no doubt about that.

[Celtiberofrog]

NA was fine before having those repairs,

as long as repairs remain it should at least bring higher penalty to the ship while using it, such as much higher crew requirement so the ship becomes harmless & vulnarable while the repair process is on.

While Rum should totaly disapear, it's such a joke.

[Cmdr RideZ]

I cannot believe this...

Lets correct this one...  Dont really want that devs think this could be even remotely correct.  That healing potions create skill.

You F up and get wrecked VS Unlimited healing potions?  You say that knowing when to use and which repair kit is skill?

Healing potions are there to fix you always from your mistakes.  It is a buffer to let you do your mistakes over and over again.  You dont even have to think what you do if your side has more ships than your enemy.

Lets say you have more ships and you bash to your enemy and lose your bowsprit.  If there are no repair kits you are in deep S.  You may continue with disabled ship, take some risks, or try to runaway.  Your morale and playstyle has changed to suit the situation.  If we have unlimited repair kits and you have mad skillz, you understand to take distance and click sail repair.

The idea of using healing potions in right time is skill, all this in a realistic sailing game...  Please no.

One dimensional?  Like healing potions would be the 2nd dimension?  Healing potions simplifying the game and that is somehow the 2nd dimension.  I have hard time following you here.  Naval Action has one of the best combat mechanism I have played.  If healing potions are enough to create a 2nd dimension, I am not sure if we are playing the same game.  I would say that healing potions are removing depth from everything else, making the game easier to play because the skill is dumped to "How and when to use right healing potion".

The game would need more skill if we had no healing potions at all.  Granted, we would have serious issues balancing mast rakes/snipes.  If they remove unlimited healing potions there is a high change that we are back at balancing that.

...

Less Movement, Less skill is needed.  I have no idea how to come to this conclusion.  I have understood this the opposite.  Now in the age of speed meta this is even harder to understand.

[Hodo]

The doctor/rum repair shouldnt bring back 100%.  it should be 50% of the casualties sustained.  Some people are just not going to return to battle.

[Cmdr RideZ]

18 minutes ago, rediii said:

They also promote teamplay. If you limit repairs you end up that the ones mitigating as much dmg as possible by angling win. Means liveoak ships are dominant again and also means you end up having realy fast OW ships and realy tanky PB ships .... again

 

If you change the dmg done to prepatch state again then battles are a grind again to get a side down.

Healing potions are promoting zergs.  You may call that "teamplay" if you so want to.

Speed has been very important in OW always.  It should not be like that.

If you have a fast ship you are not meant to be fighting with combat ships.  What would be a reason for other mods if speed ships would be equally good in a brawl?

Speed boats in OW and speed boats in PB?

[St0nkingByte]

I think there should be very minimal repairs in battle. Perhaps you should be able to repair pump, rudder, and leaks but otherwise most repairs are either letting low skill players (like me) escape or needlessly postponing the inevitable. Similarly, crew repairs in battle should be very minimal in terms of what % of wounded crew they return to service.

I also think open world world repairs should never bring a ship back to full health in any aspect, that should require going into a port. Also moving new crew to ships in the open world makes no sense, why can we do this? Might as well let me buy crew at sea as well.

I will admit there is a bit of an art to a carefully timed repair. There is a certain joy in a properly timed sail repair followed by a slick escape, but it doesn't make sense in the supposed context of the game.

 

[Farrago]

I voted YES.

4 total repairs (sail and hull).

Decrease percentage of healing by rum.

Repairs should remain something you carry. No auto refill after a battle.

[Celtiberofrog]

15 minutes ago, Intrepido said:

A joke is losing 230 guys in a first rate with the rake of a surprise.

rake efficiency should simply be decreased,

Compromize between gameplay & historical realism should be the target.

[Cmdr RideZ]

5 minutes ago, St0nkingByte said:

I think there should be very minimal repairs in battle. Perhaps you should be able to repair pump, rudder, and leaks but otherwise most repairs are either letting low skill players (like me) escape or needlessly postponing the inevitable. Similarly, crew repairs in battle should be very minimal in terms of what % of wounded crew they return to service.

I also think open world world repairs should never bring a ship back to full health in any aspect, that should require going into a port. Also moving new crew to ships in the open world makes no sense, why can we do this? Might as well let me buy crew at sea as well.

I will admit there is a bit of an art to a carefully timed repair. There is a certain joy in a properly timed sail repair followed by a slick escape, but it doesn't make sense in the supposed context of the game.

 

Repairs are there to

1. Escape from zergs, give some room for speed boats

2. Provide a change for Surprise to capture a Victory (This was previously very common)

3. Balance mast damage.  We have very accurate cannons and masts come down easily.

With unlimited healing potions...  I have no idea, it is simply a fail.

 

OW repairs and crew are there to make the game more "fluid".  Give us a break that we dont have to sail back to port after every battle.  It was not fun at all.  Your rank provides you better ability to wage war.

[St0nkingByte]

19 minutes ago, Cmdr RideZ said:

OW repairs and crew are there to make the game more "fluid".  Give us a break that we dont have to sail back to port after every battle.  It was not fun at all.  Your rank provides you better ability to wage war.

Wouldn't I be better able to wage war if a ship I dealt massive damage to couldn't fully repair and re-crew in a few moments without visiting a port? If you want to make the game more fluid how about just give me my ship back after I'm sunk in battle and have me reappear in the same spot in the open world ready to fight again?

[Corona Lisa]

Limit that shit, infinite repairs are boring af and allow players to make a ton of mistakes without the chance to punish them for it.

[Blackjack Morgan]

The multiple repairs is one of the reasons I quit playing NA after years of testing. Any game that allows multiple repairs, health kits, re-spawns etc....all lower the skill level needed in game and lesson the impact that mistakes cost you during play. The other major problem I'm surprised doesn't get brought up more often is how multiple repair kits disproportionately favor the side with the numerical advantage.....this probably more than anything else made me lose favor with current NA.

If we were outnumbered 4v2 and the enemy got too aggressive or made a few sloppy mistakes you had the potential to force enough damage early, making him burn his repair, and possibly force him out of battle. Now the side with the numbers advantage can have a much easier time...1-2 can sail in hit hard while being somewhat reckless and sail off to repair then come back. I can't think of a single game I have ever played where having multiple repairs, lives, health kits etc. equated to a higher skill level....not a one.

[Fargo]

2 minutes ago, rediii said:

I dont say its realistic, I say it promotes skill. If you can just turn away and hit repair your enemy is bad or you bought yourself in angood position to do it. OR your team uses teamplay and they shield you. This is gone if you limit repairs. You will again see full tank ships or speedships and nothing in between if you cut them away. You even give reason to the bs upgrade floating battery.

With less movement less skill is needed. 

if you know what repairs yojr enemy uses you can prepare a broadside for it. If you damaged only hull of your enemy 1. you did something wrong and 2. you can hit his sails when he repairs hull and he is gone.

I also dont see where there is a difference in chases to multirepairs if you limit them. Chasers even have a advantage by it because they combined have more sailhp and more repairs than the enemy.

If you cant get your prize in 30-40 minutes (2 repairs) you shouldnt go to chase someone anyway.

But realism is a major point against it.

Youre saying it, repairs favour (gank) groups. They take away all your chances against a team of 3 smaller ships barely knowing what they are doing. Sure you can try to focus on a mast after a repair, etc. But youre in the defensive spot, you have to avoid rakes, you are constantly slowed down. With previous repairs they atleast had to disengage when they took too much hull damage, you had a chance to win that fight. 

What has teamplay to do with repairs, you would always try to spread damage and cover wounded ships?! Im also not arguing to remove repairs completely. 

Why should people use more fast ships when speed becomes less important?! Full tank ships still get raked down and are easy prey in the OW?! Yes restricted repairs would actually allow a tankier ship to sink a faster ship that cant escape that easy anymore after it messed up raking. But thats a good thing.

When youre chasing a guy repairing back from 70 to 100% sail, you have to do so yourself while your sails still were at 90%, then he has the advantage of speed and chasers. With restricted repairs he would not have escaped from you. Alone you dont have a chance to catch a faster ship with chasers repairing back to 100%. Even with multiple ships it depends on the situation, distance etc. Easily repairing back to full speed is what makes speed so powerful.

And its not the task of repairs to balance broken upgrades, demasting, how fast ships are sinking, or other stuff.

[Khyron]

what was wrong with the old system? 2 and 2, done

[George Washington]

41 minutes ago, Khyron said:

what was wrong with the old system? 2 and 2, done

Kiting was the problem, you tag a player then start kiting him slowly damaging him over time. He uses all repairs. When he is no longer has repairs left, you attack him with 2 reps behind your belt. Many players quit because of this in past. Not even talking about a group of players kiting until player has no reps left and then swarming him. . Bringing this back is not a good idea. It will slowly kill the game. 

Most people who vote yes for this have not a slightest idea what they vote for. This will greatly benefit gankers and kill new player population. 

I hope Devs remember this.

Edited November 1, 2017 by George Washington

[Teutonic]

31 minutes ago, George Washington said:

Kiting was the problem, you tag a player then start kiting him slowly damaging him over time. He uses all repairs. When he is no longer has repairs left, you attack him with 2 reps behind your belt. Many players quit because of this in past. Not even talking about a group of players kiting until player has no reps left and then swarming him. . Bringing this back is not a good idea. It will slowly kill the game. 

 

I remember distinctly of how not only would players kite, but everyone would aim to demast the enemy.

whoever was demasted first won - my main worry is that yet again it'll just be the Demast gameplay because who needs to shoot the Hull when you can demast, grape, and then board without worry.

EDIT - I am sympathetic to those who want to limit repairs though and really I do sometimes find myself wishing repairs were limited.

Edited November 1, 2017 by Teutonic

[Rebel Witch]

the solution is so simple to this problem. just make separate repairs in a battle have a aprox 45 min cooldown. so if you repair sails, it has to cooldown 45 minutes before you can repair sails again. you can repair hull separately, that has a 45min cooldown as well.

this way you do not get screwed by using one repair and both have to cooldown that long. it also limits use of repairs so battles do go on and on and on and on.....

 

[Hodo]

40 minutes ago, Rebel Witch said:

the solution is so simple to this problem. just make separate repairs in a battle have a aprox 45 min cooldown. so if you repair sails, it has to cooldown 45 minutes before you can repair sails again. you can repair hull separately, that has a 45min cooldown as well.

this way you do not get screwed by using one repair and both have to cooldown that long. it also limits use of repairs so battles do go on and on and on and on.....

 

This doesnt help the issue of, he who demasts first wins.

You will see an increase in NPC fleets taken with players, set to demast, and the players firing chain then ball to kill the mast.  

Who cares about the hull when you can kill sails and masts long before they get into your structure. 

[Niagara]

Some good ideas here to some of the problems.

Limit Chain shot as it makes no sense to allow unlimited use of 1 special ammo but not the rest.

Increase the timer between repairs and make the repairs take longer to complete and be less effective.

I agree that you should not be able to raise a mast the second after you lose it. its doable but it takes time to repair rigging and replace everything needed to put the new mast in place not exactly ideal in combat.

Also, everyone is sailing at 100% sail yet we have this feature called battle sails which i assume was implemented to represent the fact that you did not have large amounts of your crew in the riggings to man the sails and everything else needed to man full sails.

Make it so that battle sails use less sailing crew then full sails and make the speed to which you can change and alter sails increase as some ships are insanly fast to turn and manoeuvre even at high speeds.

And some more needed fixes to the speed problems.

If you want think that current speed problems are not that big then a full broadside from a 1-3 rate should absolutely blast a much smaller ship out of the water and cause leaks and structural damage to pretty much everything cause the balls will penetrate the entire ship as a much smaller ship wont be able to stop the huge balls from entering on 1 side and leaving on the other.

[Hodo]

38 minutes ago, Niagara said:

Some good ideas here to some of the problems.

Limit Chain shot as it makes no sense to allow unlimited use of 1 special ammo but not the rest.

Increase the timer between repairs and make the repairs take longer to complete and be less effective.

I agree that you should not be able to raise a mast the second after you lose it. its doable but it takes time to repair rigging and replace everything needed to put the new mast in place not exactly ideal in combat.

Also, everyone is sailing at 100% sail yet we have this feature called battle sails which i assume was implemented to represent the fact that you did not have large amounts of your crew in the riggings to man the sails and everything else needed to man full sails.

Make it so that battle sails use less sailing crew then full sails and make the speed to which you can change and alter sails increase as some ships are insanly fast to turn and manoeuvre even at high speeds.

And some more needed fixes to the speed problems.

If you want think that current speed problems are not that big then a full broadside from a 1-3 rate should absolutely blast a much smaller ship out of the water and cause leaks and structural damage to pretty much everything cause the balls will penetrate the entire ship as a much smaller ship wont be able to stop the huge balls from entering on 1 side and leaving on the other.

I have suggested this very thing about the Battle sails... and it has been mostly ignored, even though it was pretty well received by most of the other forum dwellers.

 

As in here.

 

Edited November 1, 2017 by Hodo

[Cmdr RideZ]

13 hours ago, George Washington said:

Not even talking about a group of players kiting until player has no reps left and then swarming him. . Bringing this back is not a good idea. It will slowly kill the game. 

Most people who vote yes for this have not a slightest idea what they vote for. This will greatly benefit gankers and kill new player population. 

Unlimited repairs and a speed boat?  This is pretty much what you are asking here.  Speed meta is an issue, not a solution.

In OW tankier ships should have a role, other builds should have a role.   Balancing game for speed meta makes no sense.

In the end without healing potions even sailing profile has more meaning when you cannot just repair your sails after another.  OW positioning has more meaning.  Everything has more meaning when you cannot just rep your sails all the time.

Fixing this obviously broken feature does not make new players to go away.  New players do not even have speed ships, they are basically fighting vs guys who have.  Removing this will make it harder for people who have speed gear.  New players probably dont even understand that speed is so important.  If I were a new player and I heard about the speed meta, I would be shocked from its stupidity.

Funny how I think that people voting No for this have not a slightest idea what they vote for.

 

12 hours ago, Teutonic said:

I remember distinctly of how not only would players kite, but everyone would aim to demast the enemy.

whoever was demasted first won - my main worry is that yet again it'll just be the Demast gameplay because who needs to shoot the Hull when you can demast, grape, and then board without worry.

EDIT - I am sympathetic to those who want to limit repairs though and really I do sometimes find myself wishing repairs were limited.

This issue may come back after fixing unlimited repair kits.  Probably comes back.

I dont personally like that masts can be used to get fast victories either.  All 3 should be fixed; URK, speed meta, masts.

[Forbin]

Voted NO, more repairs = less speed = less turning speed, that's perfectly fine as it is, old system was crap.

A skilled player with the proper ship will get you, and YES using repairs with a good timing is a skill.

Rum is ok right now, but its weight should be increased to avoid people carrying 10 times their initial crew.

[shaeberle84]

22 hours ago, admin said:

Please vote on limited use of repairs in battles

Current state of combat favors faster ships with lots of repairs who can disengage and return to combat. Battles are in general longer and escape is easier with the unlimited repair usage. 

We propose to discuss the limitations for repairs for example (3-4 uses per battle across all repairs) saved on the ship (so you can capture the ship who did not use the repairs and continue fighting in it). 

The current system is realistic, I think.

Maybe the problem is not the number of repairs, but how much they repair when it is possible to stack repair mods and skill books. So start reducing the bonuses first maybe.

The problem with escape is rather super accurate stern chasers who can shoot down the sails of the hunters faster than the hunters can shoot down the sails of the escapees. Make stern chasers only use carronades and this problem is solved. No need to tackle repairs for that. If escapees want to burn repairs before they are inveitably hunted down, it is fair game.

Edit: If you want to limit repairs, just increase the cooldown!?

Edited November 2, 2017 by shaeberle84

[neogiuliani]

For me:

2 repairs kits, for use as you want in the battle  (sails or hull)

1 repair crew kit. (this kit repair the 60% or 70% crew)