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LeBoiteux

Small ship Plan Challenges

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9 minutes ago, Surcouf said:

Well I do not know ... or not yet ;)

Don't bother yourself. :)

Edited by LeBoiteux

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La Sardoine

1757

French 4-pdr Corvette

12-18 guns

 

Built by J.-L. Coulomb in Nantes.

Captured in 1761 by the British 5th-Rate brig-sloop HMS Alarm (32 guns + 12 swivel-guns, 1758) and renamed HMS Sardoine.

large.jpg

La Sardoine as taken off, prior to fitting as a 14-gun ship sloop

http://collections.rmg.co.uk/collections/objects/83948.html

See informations :

 

Edited by LeBoiteux
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Challenge 2 a bit modified :  

  • Plans restricted to ship sloops/corvettes (3-masted ships) to spice up the game and as there is only one ship sloop in game for now (USS Rattlesnake). The Navy Brig and the Mercury are brigs and the Snow... a snow.
  • Armament specs remain the same : only 18 x 6-pdr, 20 x 6-pdr or 22 x 6-pdr. No armed QD/fc.

For the moment, one suggestion falls in this category : the danish Wilmander (18 x 6-pdr).

Have fun. :)

PS : this modification changes nothing about the proposals made so far. They remain valid.

Edited by LeBoiteux
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Summing up of the proposals so far

Challenge 1 : fill in the gaps

9T1lIS0.png

wCp57ye.png?1

4s7esyW.png?1

Xuq41OT.png?1

Challenge 2 : ship sloops

FuqYYZM.png?1

Challenge 3 : too small but...

D4CxQj9.png?1

 

Edited by LeBoiteux

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I would like to see more big snow´s (or lets say 2 masted ships Brigs, Brigantines and such) .... and different rigs we have so many ship rigged vessels ingame i dont know if we need more even if this is about small ships. :)

Edited by Lonar

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1 hour ago, Lonar said:

I would like to see more big snow´s (or lets say 2 masted ships Brigs, Brigantines and such) .... and different rigs we have so many ship rigged vessels ingame i dont know if we need more even if this is about small ships. :)

Then post plans that meet the specs of this thread. :)

This thread is about challenges among the community, not about implementation in NA. It's just a little game with rules (that might also help NA development someday if interesting plans show up). Challenge 1 and 3 is open to any rigs. Challenge 2 is actually about three-masted small ships.

Just a word about rigs and small ships in NA : out of 12 small ships in game, 11 are brigs, snow or fore-and-aft rigged. USS Rattlesnake is the only 3-masted ships.IMHO  NA would be even funnier with more corvettes.  Besides, from a naval / historical / 'Wow ! she's lovely' perspective, the presence in game of some corvettes and light frigates would be almost self-evident. But this debate is not the purpose of this thread. :)

Edited by LeBoiteux
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3 hours ago, LeBoiteux said:

@Malachi No little and cute corvette to post ? Nothing ? Huh ? :)

or maybe those corvettes come from one of those three disgusting nations I don't even dare to name ? And you are ashamed... You deserve that feeling ! Shame on you :P 

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On 10/19/2017 at 12:08 PM, LeBoiteux said:

@Malachi No little and cute corvette to post ? Nothing ? Huh ? :)

Well, I wanted to post La Sardoine, but you were faster :P

But here are a couple of other ones I really like:

 

Chapman's proposal for a 20*6-pounder frigate from his ANM, length 116'. Note the spardeck and diagonal stanchions against hogging (which also serve as supporters of the upper deck)

 

Dutch Proserpina, built 1821, length 128 Amsterdam feet. 20 24-pound carronades (or 6-pounders) plus 2 8-pounders.

 

Proposal for a danish 18*8-pounder frigate, length 100 danish feet.

 

La Guirlande/Cygnet. 18 6-pounders, length 110'. Built in 1757.

 

La Sardine. 16*6-pounders, length 106 pieds de roi, built in 1771.

 

 

Amrum, 12 * 4-pounder, 79 danish feet. Built in 1762. An amazing looking little ship :)

And last but not least, my favourite, L' Amarante:

 

Built in 1747, length 84 pieds de roi, 12 * 4-pounders.

 

 

More pics of this really cool model here.

Edited by Malachi
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As a reminder, the 3 Plan Challenges below are open to ships from every nation. Their focus is NA gaps and armaments, not nationality. First of all, because filling all the NA gaps with only underrepresented nations sounds to me like Impossible mission. Secondly, because in such challenges made primarily for fun and not directly for implementation, it's impossible from a naval and historical perspective to give French/British/US ships a total miss. Sorry but, for example, I can't talk about small 3-masted ships without posting French corvette(s).

Those interested in challenges narrowing the number of nations are free to create their own challenges based on the same model or not. I won't make any.

Have fun all.

Thx to all the contributors. :)

Edited by LeBoiteux

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1 hour ago, Malachi said:

Well, I wanted to post La Sardoine, but you were faster :P

I have two issues about the characteristics of La Sardoine (our @Surcouf is on the case).

  • The first one is her French dimensions before refitting par the British. My only source right now is threedecks.
  • The second one is... is... guess what...:) (mini-challenge for all except Surcouf who knows it)
Edited by LeBoiteux

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54 minutes ago, LeBoiteux said:

I have two issues about the characteristics of La Sardoine (our @Surcouf is on the case).

  • The first one is her French dimensions before refitting par the British. My only source right now is threedecks.
  • The second one is... is... guess what...:) (mini-challenge for all except Surcouf who knows it)

hint #1 : g-a-p-s

Edited by LeBoiteux

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@Malachi's proposals. Please, check my mistakes (growing in numbers lately :)) :

  • Chapman's proposal for a 20*6-pounder frigate : in-game 20 x 6 (ship sloop challenge)
  • Dutch Proserpina : in-game  20 x 6pdr (or 24-pdr (C)) + 2 x 9-pdr = 69 pdr (gap 1 of the *cough* 6-th rate plan challenge *cough*  :))
  • Proposal for a danish 18*8-pounder frigate : in-game  18 x 9-pdr = 81 pdr (gap 2 of the *cough* *cough*  6-th rate plan challenge *cough*  *cough*  :)
  • La Guirlande/Cygnet. 18 6-pounders : in-game 18 x 6-pdr (ship sloop challenge)
  • La Sardine. 16*6-pounders : in-game 16x6-pdr = in-game Brig (Fair America)
  • Amrum and L'Amarante (12 * 4-pounder) : 12 x 4-pdr = 24 pdr  = in-game Lynx and basic Cutter 

What a nice bundle of ships !!!!

Shouldn't I turn Challenge 2 into a "Give a challenger to the in-game ships" or add a 4th challenge ?

Edited by LeBoiteux

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3 hours ago, LeBoiteux said:

I have two issues about the characteristics of La Sardoine (our @Surcouf is on the case).

  • The first one is her French dimensions before refitting par the British. My only source right now is threedecks.
  • The second one is... is... guess what...:) (mini-challenge for all except Surcouf who knows it)

@Sella22 found the solution (at least in part) : there are 16 portholes + 2 for chasing on the British plan of the Sardoine. Congrats !

More precisely, I'm doubtful about the number of guns of La Sardoine.

  • Boudriot (Historique de la corvette, p. 30) says : 12 x 4-pdr
  • Three decks quoting Demerliac says : 14 x 4-pdr + 6 perriers for La Sardoine and 14 x 4 + 10 1/2-pdr swivel for HMS Sardoine   
  • The British plan (said to have been drawn before refit) shows 16 portholes + 2 chasers. Were some unarmed ?

If anyone could check Alain Demerliac (Nomenclature des Navires Français de 1715 à 1774) or any other source, it'd be great. Same for the French dimensions of La Sardoine. :)

Edited by LeBoiteux

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Quoting Ian McLauglhan from the Sloop of War 1650-1763 about Sardoine:

"[..]was built at Nantes to the design of Jacques-Luc Coulomb. She had four sisters;in fact the French Navy commisioned nine corvettes designed by Coulomb, most listed as 100ft lenght on deck.[..] If the corvettes produced under the supervision of Blaise Ollivier appear extreme in hull design, they are nothing compared to Sardoine, whose sections exhibit an exaggerated version of the earlier designs. Sardoine was builit thirteen years later after La Palme and in addition to her highly developed hull, she was about 10ft longer and was pierced for nine guns a side, though armed with only twelve 4pdrs. She was commissioned into the Royal Navy at Portsmouth in 1761 and given an extra pair of 4pdrs.

The waterlines in the half-breadth plan provide a clear view of the remarkably fine ends of this vessel, particulary that of the run. Her sheer plan shows the French preference for only a light degree of rake at bow and stern, but there is exaggeration in that her sternpost is actually raked forwards, Like the earlier corvettes, she has a marked degree of tumblehome which may help stability by bringing the weight of the gguns closer to the centreline but at the same time it would have made their handling difficult, possibly reducing their rate of fire; it was also less effective at dampening rolling than more 'wall-sided' designs.[..]"

Edited by Sella22
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11 minutes ago, Sella22 said:

Quoting Ian McLauglhan from the Sloop of War 1650-1763 about Sardoine:

Very interesting report. Thx !!!

Edited by LeBoiteux

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Also:

"She is shown with a raised quarterdeck and forecastle on the plan, which is dated April 1761 ( ie before the prize was formally purchased), so these are probably as captured; the height underneath them is only 5ft aft and 4ft 6in forward."

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45 minutes ago, Sella22 said:

Sardoine "[..]was built at Nantes to the design of Jacques-Luc Coulomb. She had four sisters;in fact the French Navy commisioned nine corvettes designed by Coulomb, most listed as 100ft lenght on deck.[..]

From Boudriot, Historique de la Corvette, p. 30 :

roItdr3.jpg?1 

45 minutes ago, Sella22 said:

Sardoine  was pierced for nine guns a side, though armed with only twelve 4pdrs. She was commissioned into the Royal Navy at Portsmouth in 1761 and given an extra pair of 4pdrs.

That and the sister ships might explain why Boudriot mention that Coulomb made, at the same time, corvettes carrying 12 x 4-pdr and 16 x 4-pdr.

Edited by LeBoiteux
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8 minutes ago, SteelSandwich said:

In addition to Malachi's post about the Proserpina

3D hull model':

It'd be nice to have a post about her in the 6-th rate plan challenge thread, not in the current Small ships thread, as Proserpina : in-game 20 x 6pdr (or 24-pdr (C)) + 2 x 9-pdr = 69 pdr (gap 1)

Edited by LeBoiteux

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Summing up of the proposals so far

Challenge 1 : fill in the gaps

DUka5EJ.png?1

wCp57ye.png?1

4s7esyW.png?1

Xuq41OT.png?1

Challenge 2 : ship sloops

2StBAKG.png?1

Challenge 3 : too small but...

D4CxQj9.png?1

Challenge 4 : the Challengers

(New challenge) 

Plans of brigs, snows or fore-and-aft rigged ships that could challenge those currently implemented,

ie carrying the same armament : 8 x 6-pdr, 12 x 4-pdr, 12 x 6-pdr, 16 x 6-pdr, 18 x 6-pdr, 20 x 6-pdr or 22 x 6-pdr.

JNcgB3C.png?1

Edited by LeBoiteux
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23 hours ago, Malachi said:

Well, I wanted to post La Sardoine, but you were faster :P

On the other hand, I still hear roaring coming from the back of the shipyard... :D

Edited by LeBoiteux

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