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Proposition for New BR's


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Several topics are questioning the applicable Battle Rates. Many parameters changed, being adjusted in patches, the apparition of new ships modified choices, etc.

I’m trying here to give an hand for calculation of “new” Battle Rates, from these new parameters. Forgive me, but this message will be quite long and filed with a lot of formulas. Those who prefer to skip can directly go to conclusion. :P :)

 

What is the Battle Rate? (in this proposal)

The Battle Rate (BR) has several components:

  • Attack Rate (AR), ability to make damages to the enemy
  • Defensive Rate (DR), ability to sustain damages from the enemy
  • Chasing Rate (CR), ability to tag using bow chasers without changing route
  • Retreat Rate (RR), ability to fight in retreat using stern chasers without changing route
  • Transport Rate (TR), ability to transport a lot of cargo, guns and repairs (with little impact on performances).

These components don’t have the same importance, and coefficients will be applied to limit AR to 350, DR to 175, CR and RR to 100, TR to 50.

And at the end BR= AR + DR + CR + RR + TR.

 

Attack Rate (AR)

Let’s consider that a ship is good for making damages if it has a good broadside, a good speed for coming on range, a good turn Rate. The broadside weight used here will be the canon broadside weight, considering this weapon as the most used by players.

The Broadside Weight is squared because louder it is, shorter will be the fight, limiting the effect of enemy broadside.

AttackRate= BroadsideWeight * BroadsideWeight * Speed * TurnRate / 143536

The coefficient 143536 comes to limit the biggest AR (Santisima) to 350.

Undercrew factor for Trader Lynx, Trader Cutter, Trader Brig and Trader Snow reduce the rate of fire, reason why the AR for these ships is devided by 3 compared to others.

 

Defense Rate (AR)

Let’s consider that a ship is good for sustaining or avoiding damages if it has a good structure, a good armor, a good speed for coming off range and a good turn Rate to angle enemy shots.

DefenseRate= SideStructure * SideArmor * Speed * TurnRate / 116492

The coefficient 116492 comes to limit the biggest DR (L’Ocean) to 175.

 

Chasing Rate (CR)

Let’s consider that a ship is good for tagging with bow chasers if it has a good bow chaser weight and a good speed for catching the enemy ship.

ChasingRate= BowChaserWeight * Speed / 6.642

The coefficient 6.642 comes to limit the biggest CR (Wasa) to 100.

 

Retreat Rate (RR)

Let’s consider that a ship is good for retreating being protected by stern chasers if it has a good stern chaser weight and a good speed for escaping from the enemy ship.

RetreatRate= SternChaserWeight * Speed / 4.957

The coefficient 4.957 comes to limit the biggest RR (Endymion) to 100.

 

Transport Rate (TR)

Let’s consider that a ship is good for transport if it has a good cargo capacity and a good speed.

TranportRate= CargoCapacity * Speed / 928

The coefficient 928 comes to limit the biggest TR (Indiaman) to 50.

 

Proposition for a new BR:

This gives the same min/max rates than previously (BR 30 for Lynx, BR 650 for Santi), but this is I think more balanced:

  • Lynx: BR 30
  • Cutter: BR 30
  • Privateer: BR 30
  • Pickle: BR 50
  • Brig: BR 80
  • Prince de Neufchatel: BR 110
  • Snow: BR 80
  • Navy Brig: BR 90
  • Rattlesnake Heavy: BR 90
  • Mercury: BR 70
  • Mortar Brig: BR 60
  • Niagara: BR 100
  • Cerberus: BR 120
  • Renommee: BR 130
  • Surprise: BR 170
  • Hermione: BR 150
  • Frigate: BR 140
  • Belle Poule: BR 120
  • Pirate Frigate: BR 160
  • Essex: BR 130
  • Trincomalee: BR 180
  • Endymion: BR 260
  • Indefatigable: BR 210
  • Constitution: BR 340
  • Agamemnon: BR 290
  • Ingermanland: BR 240
  • Wasa: BR 450
  • Wapen von Hamburg III: BR 290
  • 3rd Rate: BR 240
  • Bellona: BR 380
  • St. Pavel: BR 410
  • Bucentaure: BR 460
  • Victory: BR 530
  • L'Ocean: BR 640
  • Santisima: BR 650
  • Rookie Snow: BR 10
  • Rookie Brig: BR 10
  • Rattlesnake: BR 70
  • Gun Boat: BR 60
  • Yacht: BR 30
  • Santa Cecilia: BR 170
  • Traders Lynx: BR 40
  • Traders Cutter: BR 30
  • Traders Brig: BR 100
  • Traders Snow: BR 80
  • Le Gros Ventre: BR 100
  • Indiaman: BR 170
  • Basic Cutter: BR 30

 

Remarks:

Some results are unexpected.

  • Among which, I propose an improvement of performance for the Belle Poule (confirmed here why it is so few used by players),
  •  Same for Essex.
  • The 4th rate Wasa is better than the 3rd Rate Bellona.
  • The Prince de Neufchatel seems to be over performing too.
  • Something should be done for more differences between Trader Brig and Le Gros Ventre.

Hope this will help and not hurt anybody’s favorite ships.

This are just calculating figures which don’t take into account human factor. Artificial Intelligence is in development but not yet the Artificial Emotions!

The Excel File is given in attachment, for those who want to make their own opinion. :huh: :blink: B)

 

New BR.xlsm

Edited by Eléazar de Damas
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1 minute ago, Jon Snow lets go said:

Did you use carronade broadside weight or just meds/longs for all ships?

To simplify the calculation,  I used canons broadside weight. This avoids considerations on range and precision, even if my preference goes to using caronades with light frigates such Surprise. 

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Just now, Jon Snow lets go said:
4 minutes ago, Zoky said:

 

Because devs think about implementing BR limits for PBs.

I heard about that but that's something new and I remember people asking for br change way back even before wipe

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The question is what should reflect the BR parameter?  It's an overall value of what?

IMO you a bit overrank the chasers. According to your proposal, Surprise 170 vs Frigate 140. IF the skill of both is the same. One advantage of surprise is a fact that she should be able to run away: ]. A frigate is a stronger, has better punch. IMO tough prey for a light surprise.

It is only an example. In total it is not easy to accumulate in one number so many different parameters.

Edited by Rychu Karas
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1 hour ago, rediii said:

BR shouldnt be influenced by chance of runninv away in my oppinion. BR should be a value of worth inside a battle. So its speed, turn, broadside weight, crew, thickness, HP, sailHP(a bit) and also mastthickness.

A suprise isnt as valueable inside a real battle as a frigate for example. Simple fact dje to broadsideweight, masthcikness and turn

It was not easy to balance the calculation sheet and each player particular skills have a great influence on the actual ship value (I just have to remember our last 1v1 to be sure of that).

I won my last fight with my Surpr vs a Frig, but you were not in the Frigate... Same opinion for Connies.

If there are several ships in fight, the broadside weight is more important, the speed is only important for tagging and keeping the enemy in battle, the turning ratio of an Endymion might make it.

But a single BR should reflect all that. Surprises have the advantage of 4 stern chasers. This would pull you off a lot of traps. This is almost useless in big battles...

For sure, arbitration will be difficult, and manual adjustment on the calculation results shall be necessary. 

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5 minutes ago, rediii said:

True, but you also have to keep in mind for what BR is used:

- future use is max BR in portbattles

- use now is OW taggingshield

In both its not important to escape but to be able to properly fight

That's true too indeed. 

Also differences in wood stuffing: fir-fir surprises with a lot of speed upgrades are common. Not the same for Santisimas!

And what about the last Ocean I chased in a teak-teak Hermione, overloaded but with 3 speed upgrades, being obliged to through to the sea most of the cargo of the ship to be able to catch him... And getting this bloody message that my BR was not enough! :o

So yes, and no for the yes because for sure the yes needs the no, BR issues are not so simple.

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3 minutes ago, Aegir said:

Should circles be captured by ship-count or BR-count?

That's another very good question! 

Today, all ships are similar in port battles, but tomorrow,  I hope no for diversity benefits. 

I would personally prefer BR-count.

Edited by Eléazar de Damas
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23 hours ago, rediii said:

True, but you also have to keep in mind for what BR is used:

- future use is max BR in portbattles

- use now is OW taggingshield

In both its not important to escape but to be able to properly fight

Taking into account above remarks, I made a lot of trials yesterday evening after our PB in Biloxi. The constraints were to keep the strongest BR to 650 and the weakest BR to 30 (for war ships), for not unbalancing other parts of the program and trying not to insert new bugs by error corrections or new setting…

Among others, I tried

  • Simple calculations based on HP, Armor, speed, masts turn rates and so on,
  • Same using speed squared or power 3.
  • Same using turn rate squared or power 3.
  • Trying to introduce a factor for under crew (such as Indefatigable)
  • Long test to try and balance with carronades for some ships
  • Some test with thing I thought they should give stupid results (and proved to give it)
  • Others…

Most of them gave too big BR to 1st rates and none to schooners… Some was so “strange” that I will never recognize to have done it! LOL.

At the end of the story, I went back to the previous file, replacing the Attack, Defense, Chasing and so on rates by the following, with target to make more a Port Battle Rating than an Open World Rating in which trading and recon capabilities should be highlighted.

  • Max Attack Rate: 425 instead of 350
  • Max Defense Rate: 200 instead of 175
  • Max Chasing Rate: 30 instead of 100
  • Max Retreat Rate: 30 instead of 100
  • Max Transport Rate  0.001 instead of 50

This gives the following proposition:

  • Lynx---------------------: BR 30
  • Cutter-------------------: BR 30
  • Privateer----------------: BR 40
  • Pickle-------------------: BR 60
  • Brig---------------------: BR 70
  • Prince de Neufchatel-----: BR 70
  • Snow---------------------: BR 50
  • Navy Brig----------------: BR 70
  • Rattlesnake Heavy--------: BR 90
  • Mercury------------------: BR 80
  • Mortar Brig--------------: BR 70
  • Niagara------------------: BR 70
  • Cerberus-----------------: BR 110
  • Renommee-----------------: BR 110
  • Surprise-----------------: BR 120
  • Hermione-----------------: BR 120
  • Frigate------------------: BR 140
  • Belle Poule--------------: BR 110
  • Pirate Frigate-----------: BR 160
  • Essex--------------------: BR 140
  • Trincomalee--------------: BR 150
  • Endymion-----------------: BR 180
  • Indefatigable------------: BR 170
  • Constitution-------------: BR 250
  • Agamemnon----------------: BR 260
  • Ingermanland-------------: BR 220
  • Wasa---------------------: BR 350
  • Wapen von Hamburg III----: BR 220
  • 3rd Rate-----------------: BR 240
  • Bellona------------------: BR 370
  • St. Pavel----------------: BR 430
  • Bucentaure---------------: BR 490
  • Victory------------------: BR 550
  • L'Ocean------------------: BR 600
  • Santisima----------------: BR 650
  • Rookie Snow--------------: BR 10
  • Rookie Brig--------------: BR 10
  • Rattlesnake--------------: BR 60
  • Gun Boat-----------------: BR 40
  • Yacht--------------------: BR 40
  • Santa Cecilia------------: BR 150
  • Traders Lynx-------------: BR 40
  • Traders Cutter-----------: BR 30
  • Traders Brig-------------: BR 60
  • Traders Snow-------------: BR 50
  • Le Gros Ventre-----------: BR 90
  • Indiaman-----------------: BR 110
  • Basic Cutter-------------: BR 30

Additional remark: I suggest to modify some ships.

  • Lynx---------------------: BR 30 (min OK)
  • Renommee-----------------: BR 110
  • Surprise-----------------: BR 120
  • Hermione-----------------: BR 120
  • Frigate------------------: BR 140
  • Belle Poule--------------: BR 110 (suggest to increase HP and armor)
  • Pirate Frigate-----------: BR 160
  • Essex--------------------: BR 140 (suggest to increase HP or armor)
  • Trincomalee--------------: BR 150 (suggest to increase maneuverability)
  •  
  • Constitution-------------: BR 250
  • Agamemnon----------------: BR 260
  • Wasa---------------------: BR 350 (this cheap ship will replace all others! Please insert some weakness)
  • 3rd Rate-----------------: BR 240 (unused ship by players. Suggest to increase speed compared to Bello, as her armament is weaker.)
  • Bellona------------------: BR 370
  • Victory------------------: BR 550
  • L'Ocean------------------: BR 600
  • Santisima----------------: BR 650 (max OK)

Those who like can make additional test in the attached file. The main parameters are in the "ships" folder.

I hope this will help!

New BR-01.xlsm

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