Poll: Port battle limitations - formerly known as port battle diversity.

[admin]

Captains

From the introduction of the port battles captains were requesting us to create systems increasing the ship diversity in the port battles. 

With the last patch (clan based port battles) we can implement the simple system that could promote such limitation by design.

BR Limit
How it could work - description

1. Every port will have the BR limit clearly indicated in the port information window: Port Battle BR Limit
2. Port battle participants will have to decide which ships they bring to the port battle to fill the BR Limit
3. When port battle will start it will only allow entry until the BR limit is reached. 
4. Once BR limit is reached - port battle entry will close for the side that reached the BR limit

Example In numbers

1. Lets assume the port battle limit is 2500
2. This means that captains will no longer be able to bring any ships they want - they will have to compose the fleet that maximize their chances to win
   1. Options
      1. 3 Wasas, 3 constitutions, 4 Agamemnons (all 250 BR)
      2. 4 Santisimas, 2 wasas, 1 brig
      3. Other options

Clan influence of the BR limit

In addition to the limits we can allow clans to reduce the standard limits increasing maintenance costs for the city, but not lower than 50%. 

For example: In the port of 2500 BR the clan can decide to lower the limit by 50% to 1250 BR, giving them extra options to defend if their number is small. They only will be able to do it if there is no port battle set up for the port.


Lets discuss the options and vote on them

[Liq]

Clear double yes from me

[George Washington]

Your idea is good, but we need small population 'insurance' mechanics. My idea was to make ALL port battles 10 vs 10 once the port is flipped. Then add 'bonus' as Port Battle size expansion based on extra work invested. 

ex. (Attacker) Nation Flipped port and now Port Battle is scheduled with 10 vs 10 (X BR) Default preset. Port Battle size Expansion is listed:

- 50% more contention points will unlock 15 vs 15 (X BR) Port Battle.

-100% more contention points will unlock 25 vs 25 (X BR) Port Battle. 

Attacker can decide based on their population availability if it's better for them to have 10 vs 10 (X BR) or 25 vs 25 (X BR) with more grinding/pvp work involved. Once attacker unlocks port battle size, it is available to both sides. Now you use your BR system to make ship variety interesting while securing population activities and full port battles during all time zones. Since 10 vs 10 will remain the most popular option it will make sure ship variety and attendance is always full.  

Either way it will work, but I believe my suggestion is simple and will work with all players and not only clans. In your suggestion Port Lords will dictate port battle size based only on their clan size and not Nation. It simply becomes private clan based gameplay where new players and lone wolfs will see no action whatsoever. 

Benefits:

-Defender could not stop port flip, but possibly they can prevent it's expansion. PvP increase in the area. 

-Attacker port battle expansion means more lineships will get involved, this will signal Defender to prepare well ahead of time. 

-10 vs 10 results in more screen fleets = more pvp in the area. 

-When Attacker takes the port all participants outside Port Battle with contention points get gold reward equal to % grinded. (Reward participants, promote interest). 

Edited October 9, 2017 by George Washington

[Spitfire83]

So does that mean we go back to ships bought from shop fire ship fitting all frigates targets players hard earnt 1st rates you won't win the port but you've trolled the enemy and let's be honest if enemy has full 25 and you have 10 players your probably going to lose so why not troll your enemy ( happened  before and leads to people crying on forum)

[Sir William Hargood]

I would love to see the structure of fleets along historical lines: 2-3 First Rates (Flagships) 2-3 Second Rates, 18-20 Third Rates. This would automatically introduce unique strategies too.

Edited October 9, 2017 by Sir William Hargood

[admin]

8 minutes ago, Spitfire83 said:

So does that mean we go back to ships bought from shop fire ship fitting all frigates targets players hard earnt 1st rates you won't win the port but you've trolled the enemy and let's be honest if enemy has full 25 and you have 10 players your probably going to lose so why not troll your enemy ( happened  before and leads to people crying on forum)

limit works for both sides. enemy will have 25 ships only if they downgraded to lower vessels (within the same limit)

25 lighter ships (2500 br) vs 10 heavier ships (2500 BR)

 

[George Washington]

Just now, admin said:

limit works for both sides. enemy will have 25 ships only if they downgraded to lower vessels (within the same limit

25 lighter ships (2500 br) vs 10 heavier ships (2500 BR)

 

25 frigates will smoke 10 lineships... so whats the point?

[Liq]

2 minutes ago, George Washington said:

25 frigates will smoke 10 lineships... so whats the point?

Eeeh I wouldnt be too sure on that.. sure a lone 1st rate is very vulnerable but when working together and protecting each other they will quickly make firewood out of the frigs

i think a good balance between firepower (damagedealing tanks) and manouverability (supportive frigates) will be key

[z4ys]

We have to find a way that it is hard/impossible to find a meta to certain br. Otherwise we have different ships in one battle but everytime the same setup.

But clear yes to both questions.

[Sven Silberbart]

Like it and happily voted 2 x YES

 

[Sven Silberbart]

11 minutes ago, rediii said:

As soon as server has more population portbattlefleets will be the weakest fleets in NA. Easy to screen, easy to defeat. Ports with a big clan behind them might aswell make the BR as low as possible so screening has a easier job

The same today with 4th rate PB groups. Can be tagged easily by bigger lineships (but don't happens). No difference in my opinion. I dont think that will be a big problem.

Edited October 9, 2017 by Sven Silberbart

[Guest]

I can already hear the moaning of people who wants to sail a 1st rate in pb but are forced to sail a Navy Brig instead cause others already sailing the few 1st rates.

[Lord Gud]

2 minutes ago, Jœrnson said:

I can already hear the moaning of people who wants to sail a 1st rate in pb but are forced to sail a Navy Brig instead cause others already sailing the few 1st rates.

Yes this would be a big problem...

[Slim McSauce]

Yes/no. Small clans won't die out because they can ally to attack/defend. Pretty bias wording

[Capt Roberts]

The only thing a BR limit will do is limit the number of players in a PB. If you want diversity in a PB you shouldn`t limit br  but instead limit rates that can play exp 5# 1st rates only 5# 2nd rates 5# 3rd rates 5# 4th rates & 5# 5th rates. Now that would make a PB fun imo

Roberts

Edited October 9, 2017 by Capt Roberts
mistake

[Liq]

18 minutes ago, Jœrnson said:

I can already hear the moaning of people who wants to sail a 1st rate in pb but are forced to sail a Navy Brig instead cause others already sailing the few 1st rates.

well the reason for why we even are able to go that far and vote whether or not there should be a BR limit in PBs is because PBs are now fully controlled by clans - Clans will have to discuss which member is going to sail which ship internally - if a member is not happy with the decisions he will eventually leave the clan and look out for a better one. And clans will probably want to evade this, so they will try to keep it fair - at least thats an optimistic point of view ;p

[RyebreadMike]

Unless I missed it, we don't know how high the BR limit will/can get or under what circumstances the limit is determined.  It would also be nice to have more information about just how WHO gets into the battle is determined because planning the fleet is so important with this change.

Basically, it would be GREAT to have another vote when we have a bit more information about just what we are voting for.

 

Thanks.

 

[fremen]

Finally!!!! Great Idea! A Great double YES, of course.

[Havelock]

Voted YES and NO.

 

Yes because i think diversity will improve the longevity of NA. NO because i think a button to change BR is not a smart system, especially if it costs money (moneysinks in RvR have proven to be hidden PvE content in the past). Also i think the Devs should introduce more variable systems instead of fixed mechanics.

I'd rather see a "breathing" BR system which is not tied to actual values. In the original thread i saw an basic idea i liked: Making BR dependant on the revenue of that port. Eg (just playing with numbers here) BR rating of the port is BR = (revenue of the last 7 days)/500 for regional capitals, 50% of that for deep water, 10% of that for shallow water. That would be a way to ensure that a fleet never has the same composition. With these numbers, we reach the maximum (25 1st Rates, Wasas or Mercury/HRattles) at 6-8kk revenue/week. Right now, only Cartagena reaches that cap.

Only problem i see when (hopefully) on release many players join the game again and too many ports reach high revenues. This could be adjusted by not using the absolute revenue but the relative revenue to the server and adjust the formula like that (asuming that maximum is reached at 5% of server revenue): BR = (port revenue/server revenue)*300 000 (and then multiply with 100%, 50% or 10% for PB type).

Edited October 9, 2017 by Havelock

[Christendom]

I'd prefer to see some sort of sliding scale and more 4th and shallow water ports overall.  Smaller clans should be able to hold "minor" ports solo and then should be able to hold "major" ports with help from allies.  There are way too many lineship ports in the game for this population. 

For example:

Each region is 5 ports.  1 lineship, 2 4ths, 2 shallow.  Lineship port is a mandatory 25v25, only the clan that OWNS the port and the clan that is ATTACKING can use 1st rates.  Allies can use the other lineships.  4th rate ports can be flexed between 15 players and 25, the defender sets the amount.  Shallow water ports same thing, flexed between 10 and 25.  This would allow smaller clans to compete, but still not monopolize the larger ports.  

This game is in terrible need of variety and streamlining, mixing up the battles will help.

[Anolytic]

A small step for Naval Action

...a big step towards lobby based PB entry.

[Teutonic]

1 hour ago, Liq said:

Clear double yes from me

Exactly! Hear Hear!

32 minutes ago, Peter Goldman said:

Capturing circles must be BR based, not by numbers. Also would be great to have numbers/BR displayed. I hate telling someone to count ships in circle to plan tactics.

Double YES from me.

I agree with this as well.

I must continue to add that with BR limits for Port Battles, ship BR balance has to "Eventually" also happen.

a wasa, connie, aggie, and inger may all be 250 BR, but we all know that the Wasa smokes the other 3 (arguably) right now. So I don't know how long it would take, but we do also eventually need a ship re-balance and a BR re-balance.

Finally, @admin Will Ports have different BR limits or will they all be the same? I know it would be extra work, but I strongly recommend that you have ports with different BR Limits to make it so every port is a different experience (or at the very least there are "a lot" of different types of battles). There should definitely still be fights where a clan can have 25 lineships, but there should also be options (like your example) of BR limits 2,500 so that we have smaller battles as well.

Thank you for now considering this for a mechanic in the game, it will help smaller clans (and if alliances come in that also helps) as well as allowing larger clans to enjoy varied fleets.

[Norfolk nChance]

http://forum.game-labs.net/topic/22704-idea-mixed-fleet-port-battles/

@admin

Use a larger BR Devisor, it'll give more control over the mixed fleet. Too narrow a bandwidth won't have the desired effect imho.

If you are going to allow the defensive or owner clan influence, like BR limits then surely they must be able to set "Time Windows" for battle as well...?

 

[Latron]

1 hour ago, Spitfire83 said:

So does that mean we go back to ships bought from shop fire ship fitting all frigates targets players hard earnt 1st rates you won't win the port but you've trolled the enemy and let's be honest if enemy has full 25 and you have 10 players your probably going to lose so why not troll your enemy ( happened  before and leads to people crying on forum)

 

1 hour ago, George Washington said:

25 frigates will smoke 10 lineships... so whats the point?

That can still happen with current mechanics so I don't see what the issue is with this change, and that situation could be avoided by just bringing more smaller ships rather than 10 1st rates. There can be actual strategy to this.

[Aventador]

Yes yes yes and yes from me please