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LeBoiteux

Looking for Light frigates... and I found !

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29 minutes ago, LeBoiteux said:

@George Washington Thx for your posts.

I really need :

  • the historical armament (caliber) with each plans 
  • ships that really meet OP specs.
  • ships that have not already been posted in the thread (La Malicieuse, Christiansborg).

Ok, I got few book websites I will try to inspect and see what I can share. 

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@Fluffy Fishy 

1) So 1 venetian lb = 0.3 kg indeed and not 0,488 kg. I learned something. Thx ! :)

2) Summing up :

It seems to me that the Constanza 2 and the Pallade could make nice light frigates while the 2 others, heavier, might have their place between HMS Surprise and 12-pdr La Belle Poule (198 pdr) or even heavier ships (see the Palma with a Venetian armament).

As a reminder, La Renommée and HMS Surprise are two 9-pdrs. It's easier to put in between 9-pders.

  • Constanza 2 class (no plan for now) 

Venetian armament : 20 x 12-pdr + 8 x 9-pdr (too heavy : 156 pdr)

in-game suggestion (max) : 20 x 12-pdr + 6 x 9-pdr (147 pdr) 

  • Cerere class 

Venetian : armament : 24 x 12-pdr + 8 x 9-pdr (too heavy : 180 pdr)

French armament : 22 x 12-pdr + 4 x 6-pdr + 6 x 12-pdr (too heavy : 180 pdr)
 

  • Pallade class 

Venetian armament : 24 x 12-pdr (144 pdr)

French armament : 20 x 12-pdr (too light : 120 pdr)

in-game suggestion  :  24 x 12-pdr (144 pdr)

  • Palma class (no plan for now)  : 

Venetian armament : 26 x 12-pdr + 12 x 9-pdr (too heavy : 210 pdr)

French armament : 26 x 9-pdr + 12 x 9-pdr (too heavy : 171 pdr)

Edited by LeBoiteux
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Updated summing up of the proposals so far (by order of appearance in this thread) :

w2Az1a4.png

 

Four in-game gun combinaisons for Light frigates have emerged to date :

1) 9-pdr frigates (32 guns) : La Malicieuse, L'Unité, La Comète, L'Alcmène, Eendragt, Sirene

  • 24 x 9-pdr + 8 x 6-pd (bw = 132 pdr)
  • 26 x 9-pdr + 6 x 6-pdr (135 pdr)

(more guns can be added on the QD/fc as long as bw <150 pdr)

2) 12-pdr frigates (22/24 guns) : Lynx-class, Christiansborg, Triton, Pallade

  • 20 x 12-pdr + 2/4 x 12-pdr (C) (132/144 pdr)
  • 24 x 12-pdr (144 pdr)

 

Edited by LeBoiteux
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La Licorne

French 9-pdr frigate

32 guns

1755

 

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Built by P. Geffroy at Brest, captured by the British in 1778 and renamed HMS Licorne.

Dimensions (pieds du Roi) : 120'6" x 31'10" x 16'6"

Armament : 

  • French service : 26 x 8-pdr + 6 x 4-pdr
  • British service : 26 x 9-pdr + 6 x 6-pdr (broadside weight = 135 pdr)

Source :

Boudriot, History of th French Frigate, p. 88

https://threedecks.org/index.php?display_type=show_ship&id=5095

http://collections.rmg.co.uk/collections.html#!csearch;authority=subject-90352;collectionReference=subject-90352;innerSearchTerm=licorne

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Figurehead (detail)

The figurehead seems to have been quite nice !

soE31Hj.jpg?1

 Decoration proposal by CP Caffieri (Brest, 9 May 1755)

Untitled.jpg.75c25089a5ae7857fe6f23cb0be

Archives of the French Navy, D1 68, f° 4, cl. 7292

Thx Malachi !

Edited by LeBoiteux
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I still haven't found any Spanish, Portuguese or British Light frigates meeting OP specs. Everything is way too heavy (heavy 12-pders, 18-pders....) !! :(

Russian and other nations would be welcome too...

9-pders as a priority (or 'light' 12-pders)

The middle of the 18th-century is a good start for researching (or later for 12-pders).

Edited by LeBoiteux

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uh...La Licorne, I think that´s the only french frigate we have a decent plan how she looked like before and after a major refit in french service. That´s her decoration proposal by CP Caffieri when she was built in Brest in 1753.

 

 

Edit:

Here´s another 12-pounder frigate, this time from Sweden. Af Trolle/Enigheten and her sister ship Sprengtporten.

 

Launched in the mid-1760s. Interestingly, its pretty much the same plan as for the venetian Pallade/Venere :P

Edited by Malachi
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5 minutes ago, Malachi said:

uh...La Licorne, I think that´s the only french frigate we have a decent plan how she looked like before and after a major refit in french service.

So there's a French plan of her in the French Archives ? I didn't know.

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23 minutes ago, Malachi said:

Interestingly, its pretty much the same plan as for the venetian Pallade/Venere :P

Even the figureheads look similar :

ZqMbLW4.jpg

87VF00d.jpg?1

Edited by LeBoiteux
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Yup, they didn´t change much. The only differences are the dimensions and the round bow instead of the beakhead bulkhead.

 

Another possible entry from sweden: af Chapman´s proposal for a 9-pounder privateer.

 

125 feet, 24 9-pounders 8 4-pounders.

 

And a british frigate, the Tartar of 1755.

 

She carried lots of different setups in her long carreer, that´s what she had in 1780:

24 9-Pounders, 12 1/2-Pound Swivel, 6 18-Pound Carronades, 4 6-Pounders
 

Edited by Malachi
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Updated summing up of the 14 proposals (by order of appearance in this thread) :

NzEa2hv.png

In-game gun combinaisons for Light frigates (so far) :

1) 9-pdr frigates (32/34/36 guns) : La Malicieuse, L'Unité, La Comète, L'Alcmène, Eendragt, Sirene, La Licorne, af Chapman's Privateer, HMS Tartar

  • 24 x 9-pdr + 8/10/12 x 6-pd (bw = 132/138/144 pdr)
  • 26 x 9-pdr + 6 x 6-pdr (135 pdr)

(more guns can be added on the QD/fc as long as bw <150 pdr)

2) 12-pdr frigates (22/24 guns) : Lynx-class, Christiansborg, Triton, Pallade, Enigheten

  • 20 x 12-pdr + 2/4 x 12-pdr (C) (132/144 pdr)
  • 24 x 12-pdr (144 pdr)

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Quote

Thx @Malachi for this high-speed burst top-notch contribution !!!

I aim to please :P

Quote

Trying to find gun info on these 2. 

Conflagration was one of the 9 ships of the fireship Tisiphone-class, based on the lines of french La Panthére . One of these ships, the Comet, has a thread in the Unrated-Vessels subforum, I think.

Small correction: it was built in 1783, not 1793.

Both the Lizard and Tisiphone are true light frigates (frégates légères/corvettes/sloops) as they carried 6-pounders on their upper deck.

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4 hours ago, Malachi said:

Both the Lizard and Tisiphone are true light frigates (frégates légères/corvettes/sloops) as they carried 6-pounders on their upper deck.

The true and nicest type IRL and in game, IMHO.

As to the in-game 'light frigates' (those of this thread), I think we are quite done with a nice set of 14 frigates (see table above), compared to the size of the gap between La Renommée and HMS Surprise. Thx to all the contributors : @Sella22 @SteelSandwich @Fluffy Fishy @Malachi @akd.  :)

Hoping it might help in a next poll or during a future development phase. Light frigates deserve some love in game.

4 hours ago, Malachi said:

Conflagration was one of the 9 ships of the fireship Tisiphone-class, based on the lines of french La Panthére .

La Panthère... Sigh... :wub:

Edited by LeBoiteux
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L'Heureuse

22-gun French 12-pdr Corvette

Privateer, then HMS Heureux

1799

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  • as a French privateer : 22 x (?)
  • British service :
    • 22 x 12-pdr (1799)
    • 20 x 32-pdr (C) + 2 x 9-pdr (1800)

Suggestion for in-game armament : 22 x 12-pdr (132 pdr)

Historical background : Revolutionary France's programme in 1793 to build heavy Corvettes (24 x 12-pdr) achieved by Forfait.

Dimensions (imperial feet) : length of gundeck  = 127'6" ; breadth =  33' 0" ; depth in hold = 15'1"

Notice the V-shaped hull.

Sources :

Edited by LeBoiteux

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Updated summing up of the proposals (by order of appearance in this thread) :

ePS5aZJ.png

Edited by LeBoiteux

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