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Hello Naval Action Captains,

I am proposing adding in the USS Ohio circa 1820 which from what has been agreed on is the cutoff year for Naval Action with the addition of the Mercury.

The USS Ohio has quite a service history for the United States as a SoL (Ship of the Line) and quite honestly is likely the single best SoL the United States ever made.


USS Ohio History:

Laid Down - 1817 @ New York Naval Yard

Launched - May 30th 1820

Spent her early years in "ordinary"

"refitted" for service in 1838 when she was needed, and served as the US Flagship to the Mediterranean for 2 years 

Went back to Boston for "ordinary" in 1840

Recommissioned in 1846 in the US - Mexico war assisting in the Siege of Vera Cruz, her guns were deployed and 336 of her crew were sent on the Tuxpan River Expedition.

Shortly after the war with Mexico she was sent to the Pacific to keep order off California during the gold rush.

She returned to Boston one last time in 1850, and served as a receiving ship until 1875.

She was placed in "ordinary" for the last time in 1883, and was sold off.

During her "breaking up" she refused to die, she broke from her mooring during a storm and became stranded. She was subsequently burned to the waterline and portions of her hull remain scattered and buried underneath the mud to this day (the shipwreck site is well documented).


Armament as best replicated:
90 guns total

2 x 32lb Cannons Fore
No guns Aft (Only windows)
24 x 42lb Carronades (Spar Deck)
32 x 32lb Cannons (Gun Deck)
32 x 42lb Cannons (Lower Deck)


Standard Crew Compliment:
840 Men & Officers

Why the USS Ohio (1820) aka Ohio II?

The USS Ohio is regarded by many US Naval Historians as one of the most beautiful sailing warships ever afloat at the time of her launching. On top of that naval records and journals indicate she was an absolutely superb ship to sail constantly doing better than 12 knots and handling very much like a frigate, this information is extremely well documented. While she was built along side her sister ships she was designed slightly differently and to date is still regarded as the best SoL the United States had ever built, despite not seeing much action, even though she did see action in the Mexican-American war. Her armament is quite impressive to say the least, that is a LOT of 32 and 42lb guns, and for her sailing characteristics this makes her a very very formidable ship despite being on 104 guns when compared to the larger ships like the HMS Victory and the Santisima Trinidad's ridiculous amount of guns.

Strong Armor, excellent sailing characteristics, powerful armament, this is what makes a good SoL, and I believe she has a place in Naval Action as there are no US SoL's and not many can either fit the timeline or were just poor performers.


Historical Pictures:

Artist Rendition of USS Ohio SoL (1820)

"2 old salts" on the USS Ohio circa 1870

USS Ohio as a receiving ship in Boston circa 1870

USS Ohio (far right) in Boston photo circa 1870's

Original Cedar "Hercules" figurehead from the USS Ohio on display today

Stephen Myatts near 100% accurate (painstakingly recreated from historical documentation) model of the SoL USS Ohio (Left Side)

Stephen Myatts near 100% accurate (painstakingly recreated from historical documentation) model of the SoL USS Ohio (Fore)


Documented Sources:

Naval Historical Foundation

Nav Source Online (historical photos only)

3 Decks Naval Warfare History

Wikipedia USS Ohio 1820 (GENERAL HISTORICAL INFORMATION ONLY)



*NOTE:

I would like to point out that the original naval register for her initial gun complement has yet to surface on the internet, I have heard that the US Navy does have some historical documents that can be requested at a cost (unsure of the cost) however this information has not been entirely verified. The gun compliment while being based on the 1837 public register does fit with the period that Naval Action is in, there are NO EXPLODING SHELL CANNONS on her as of 1837, these were traditional round shot cannons, the documentation is there to prove it.


"NOPE IT'S OUT OF DATE" - Then remove the Mercury, this launched on the same year, month and within 11 DAYS of the launch of the Russian Brig Mercury, your arguement is invalid.

"Can't fit 1837 guns on a 1820's ship, it's out of the timeline" - as long as they are the same guns that are limited in Naval Action and are the front loading, and fire only traditional round shot you can, and circa 1837 she was fitted for exactly that, and ONLY that. The only reason she has no earlier documentation is that she was in "ordinary" until she was needed to be sailed. Again argument invalid.

Yes she pushes the limits of the timeline, no argument there, however she does meet all the requirements and in my honest opinion she would make an excellent addition to the game.

Edited by Spartan0536
Updated the guns for the earliest documented configuration.
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No argument here.

If i had my choice - each nation would have 1 1st rate (7 1st rates would be in the game then because pirates don't have one, they would just steal them). You would get a very nice diverse set of ships and each nation could have a prize vessel.

We should keep in mind of balance though, we already have a crazy amount of "power creep" with new ships coming out (i'm looking at you Wasa).

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Spartan, Thanks for the Ohio information. These ships are so wonderful. I wish we could have all that the Dev's would build for us. I would love to sail the Ohio, though the largest ship I have sailed so far is the Constitution. I do see the issue of power creep though and I see also that a lot of very good ships don't get enough use. I think I have an answer. Make some ships standard, available all the time. The rest available on a rotating basis through out the year. Making the mix of ships fresh at all times as some get sunk. *Shrug*, just a thought.   

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As far as the issue of power creep goes...

WASA - That ship is nuts, the firepower is literally on par with a 3rd rate, damn fine ship though.

1st Rates: With ships like the Santisima Trinidad, Victory, and L'Ocean the Ohio while packing some serious 32lb'er and 42lb'er firepower does not have nearly as many guns as the others.

(Britain) Victory has: 
32 x 42lb cannon (Bottom Gun Deck)
30 x 24lb cannon (Middle Gun Deck)
30 x 12lb cannon (Top Gun Deck)
14 x 12lb cannon / 42lb carronade (Weather Deck)
4 x 12lb cannon / 68lb carronade (Fore)
2 x 68lb carronade (aft)
Total guns - 106


(France) L'Ocean has:
32 x 42lb cannon (Bottom Gun Deck)
34 x 24lb cannon (Middle Gun Deck)
34 x 12lb cannon (Top Gun Deck)
18 x 9lb cannon / 42lb carronade (Weather Deck)
4 x 12lb cannon / 68lb carronade (Fore)
4 x 9lb cannon / 68lb carronade (Aft)
Total guns - 114


(Spain) Santisima Trinidad has:
34 x 42lb cannon (Bottom Gun Deck)
34 x 24lb cannon (Middle Gun Deck)
36 x 12lb cannon (Top Gun Deck)
34 x 9lb cannon / 42lb carronade (Weather Deck)
2 x 12lb cannon / 68lb carronade (Fore)
4 x 9lb cannon / 68lb carronade (Aft)
Total guns - 138


(United States) USS Ohio has: (Circa 1st documented fitting)
32 x 42lb Cannons (Lower Gun Deck)
32 x 32lb Cannons (Top Gun Deck)
24 x 42lb Carronades (Spar Deck)
2 x 32lb Cannons (Fore)
No guns on the rear, only windows for the captains quarters

Total guns - 90
*Would recommend this ship to be placed as a 2nd Rate SoL.


As you can tell the USS Ohio has some impressive firepower but it's not "OP", she packs the same amount of 42lb cannons as the Santisima, is the only 1st rate with 32lb'ers making her unique and adding to her overall firepower, and on her spar deck only carries carronades which are good out to usually 200m and only at very flat angles (I know this as I am a Constitution captain that uses 42lb carronades, I even have the carronade master perk). She has no rear guns, and is one of the few ships in the game that is not armed in the rear, and is the only lineship so far to have no guns in the rear. Her fore armament while powerful with 32lb cannons is only complemented by 2 fore guns, much like the Constitution.

She is not some behemoth that has no rival, in fact some may not even like her due to the low amount of guns she possesses despite packing 42 & 32lb cannons for ranged shots, many prefer the quicker reload of smaller guns to continuously fire on a target by firing by deck and rank. What the USS Ohio is good at, and is better than any other 1st rate in the game is sailing, while having a longer reload time than most other ships due to her massive cannons, she is also better able to use her maneuverability to gain an advantageous position for her next shot.

I remember when people were complaining about the Constitution being in the game and that it was "OP", now we have the Wasa. I think the Ohio fits a position in Naval Action that makes people decide if they want more firepower over maneuverability. The Ohio is only a 3 deck ship, not a 4 deck like the 3 other 1st rates, she is unique.

Edited by Spartan0536
Updated the guns for the earliest documented configuration.
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Most of the information that was used to build that 1/72 scale model of the USS Ohio by Stephen Myatt was derived from this fantastic book that highlights how the Ohio was built.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1568522223?ie=UTF8&tag=navalhistofou-20&linkCode=xm2&camp=1789&creativeASIN=1568522223


This is also another important book, these are the papers and memoirs of Commodore Isaac Hull, the USS Ohio's first commander when she was the flagship of the US Mediterranean Fleet. Yes this is the same Isaac Hull that captained the USS Constitution, the same commander, a legendary US Naval commander, he loved both the USS Constitution and the USS Ohio.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000H7CY0U?ie=UTF8&tag=navalhistofou-20&linkCode=xm2&camp=1789&creativeASIN=B000H7CY0U

Many naval historians have said the USS Ohio is like a larger, heavier armed version of the USS Constitution, especially with her superb sailing characteristics.

Edited by Spartan0536
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I just found this interested oil on canvas art piece on the internet by Joe Duncan Gleason (1884 - 1959).

This oil on canvas is depicting the USS Ohio leaving San Pedro in 1849.

3m112.jpg

Source Link


Here is another excellent link showing historical pictures of the USS Ohio, very well documented.

USS Ohio Historical Pictures


Original Historical Sketch of the USS Ohio
sol25.jpg

Another Ultra rare preserved photograph copy of the USS Ohio
sol21.jpg

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On 23-9-2017 at 5:14 PM, Teutonic said:

No argument here.

If i had my choice - each nation would have 1 1st rate (7 1st rates would be in the game then because pirates don't have one, they would just steal them). You would get a very nice diverse set of ships and each nation could have a prize vessel.

We should keep in mind of balance though, we already have a crazy amount of "power creep" with new ships coming out (i'm looking at you Wasa).

Which 1 rate u mean Dutch and if i recall correctly the Swedish and DN had no 100+ ships.

but she would be intresting on how they would make her into the game or not.

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Just now, pietjenoob said:

Which 1 rate u mean Dutch and if i recall correctly the Swedish and DN had no 100+ ships.

but she would be intresting on how they would make her into the game or not.

I don't know my age of sail stuff for nations very well, maybe wrongly assumed - but maybe instead of "1st rates" just have "the best ship they ever made."

I guess currently I'd want ship balancing before new ships - that being said I voted for the Dutch 3rd rate in the player ship poll.

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On 23/09/2017 at 4:14 PM, Teutonic said:

No argument here.

If i had my choice - each nation would have 1 1st rate (7 1st rates would be in the game then because pirates don't have one, they would just steal them). You would get a very nice diverse set of ships and each nation could have a prize vessel.

We should keep in mind of balance though, we already have a crazy amount of "power creep" with new ships coming out (i'm looking at you Wasa).

 

1 hour ago, pietjenoob said:

Which 1 rate u mean Dutch and if i recall correctly the Swedish and DN had no 100+ ships.

but she would be intresting on how they would make her into the game or not.

Only 5 Nations frequently made 100+ gun ships Britain, France, Spain, Ottomans and Russia during the period. Sweden had a single 100 gun Konung Karl between 1725-71 while the Dutch had Eendracht between 1703-12. The Ottoman ships were pretty poorly made, so wouldnt be fun to sail, although it might be fun to tweak accuracy and put one in because they made some pretty goliath monsters. While the game is pretty set for 1st rates it could do with a more typical Spanish first rate such as Principe de Asturias (112) or San Jose (114) and an upper end Russian ship most likely the Ches'ma class like Rostislav

The US 100+ gun projects were never completed in the time frame, over budget, sluggish to react and fairly horrible outside of a straight line, they were also plagued with major issues of rot and maintenance cost, its best to avoid them. They also don't really offer anything new to the game. Their history isn't as notable and and their structure is less advanced than the Seppings method, their style of heavy armament is also preceded by British and French designs such as the Caledonia class.

The claims made in the OP seem quite far fetched, the handling like a frigate seems very difficult when comparing her length and width, at least mathematically she would have performed pretty horribly in the water, as she has quite a poor ratio, even if she was pretty fast, although 12kn isn't as fast as some other first rates, looking at her hull shape further makes this an unlikely claim, much more probably just propaganda. Lets also be honest here, those US historians need their eyes testing if they consider her beautiful, she looks like a bath tub with gun ports, probably sailed like one too, there are far more beautiful ships in the US fleet both in terms of look and performance, let alone across the world, then again maybe that's a personal thing.

The USS Ohio was launched as a 74 too, not to the 102 guns specified on this thread, she gained more guns during a remodel that brought her more in line with naval thought of the period, her original armament if I remember correctly was 32 x 32lb on her main + 32 x 32lb on her upper and 10 x 32 on her quarterdeck, these guns were cast to different lengths so as to bring her in line with European naval practise of the time. She was later upgraded with more and more guns being put on the upper deck, the waist being filled in and having her main gun deck having a shorter 42lb gun replace the longer 32lb whilst adding more guns on her weatherdeck.

Thank you for the post but I think the community is fed up of US ships now, there really needs to be more attention paid to the larger more potent European navies that have had no love yet, the Dutch, Portuguese, Venetians and Danish, dare I say it, even the Ottomans too.

Edited by Fluffy Fishy
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It seems disingenuous to pretend that these 194-196 ft long vessels with broadside weights in the region of 1488 to 1794lbs are somehow 'weaker than' or even 'broadly comparable'  to the 184ft long and 1148lb Trafalgar era Victory.

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I or Talos have access to the plans for American ships.  Photobucket in its infinite wisdom decided to charge for 3rd party, so I'll be working to adjust my collection thread so the images are more readily available.

That being said, and as much as I champion American ships, my vote is NO to the Ohio.  She does look like a damn bathtub.  Not elegant in the least.  Not to mention she's a damn shotgun with all those heavy guns.

Edit: The model of the Ohio is based on her appearance in 1841, not to mention I have reason to believe her first rate status was achieved well outside the timeframe (late 1830s), as such she should enter the game as a third rate,  NOT a first rate.

The only American line ships I would champion are the earlier America and the 1799 plan that eventually turned into the Franklin; those two designs had their own issues and would probably not receive much consideration for entry into the game.  The Continental/United States Navy is best represented by her formidable frigates and smaller vessels.

Edited by Haratik
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There actually are plenty of photos of Ohio around, both as the subject and in the background as she survived as a recieving ship until 1883.

Here is another photo of her. 1459472464829.jpghttps://www.history.navy.mil/content/history/nhhc/our-collections/photography/numerical-list-of-images/nhhc-series/nh-series/NH-60000/NH-60679/_jcr_content/mediaitem/image.img.jpg/1459472464829.jpg

As far as sailing ability, most of the US ships of the line were heavily overloaded and too small for their armament. This caused both the guns to be too close to the water and they sailed horribly. Ohio was the shining exception, with a well-shaped hull big enough for her armament and a lot of sails. Even in Europe, where the British lambasted American "74s" for being too slow and clumsy for their class, they excepted Ohio herself. I've never seen her carrying more than a hundred guns, but most of the time armed with 84-88 guns (86 was her normal, then 84 again after the introduction of the 8" Paixhans Gun). Earlier she was specified as 24 32-pdrs on the spar deck, not the 32 listed in the OP.

She and the other second-generation "74s" were mostly completed after the period of the game. Only Washington, Franklin, Independence, and Columbus were done in the 1810s. Only Columbus was a semi-decent sailer.  I wouldn't do any of the second-gen ones.

With beauty, remember that at the time Ohio's lines were hyper-modern and practically futuristic. To us looking back she's pretty ugly and plain, but to the people who saw her in person it was very different.

While I would love to see a lot of other nation's ships in the game (and I particularly understand the frustration champions of them must have), there's one US ship that would do well. That would be one of the War of 1812 sloops, either the pre-war Hornet/Wasp or the war-built Wasp/Frolic/Peacock.

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8 hours ago, Fluffy Fishy said:

 

 

Only 5 Nations frequently made 100+ gun ships Britain, France, Spain, Ottomans and Russia during the period. Sweden had a single 100 gun Konung Karl between 1725-71 while the Dutch had Eendracht between 1703-12. The Ottoman ships were pretty poorly made, so wouldnt be fun to sail, although it might be fun to tweak accuracy and put one in because they made some pretty goliath monsters. While the game is pretty set for 1st rates it could do with a more typical Spanish first rate such as Principe de Asturias (112) or San Jose (114) and an upper end Russian ship most likely the Ches'ma class like Rostislav

The US 100+ gun projects were never completed in the time frame, over budget, sluggish to react and fairly horrible outside of a straight line, they were also plagued with major issues of rot and maintenance cost, its best to avoid them. They also don't really offer anything new to the game. Their history isn't as notable and and their structure is less advanced than the Seppings method, their style of heavy armament is also preceded by British and French designs such as the Caledonia class.

The claims made in the OP seem quite far fetched, the handling like a frigate seems very difficult when comparing her length and width, at least mathematically she would have performed pretty horribly in the water, as she has quite a poor ratio, even if she was pretty fast, although 12kn isn't as fast as some other first rates, looking at her hull shape further makes this an unlikely claim, much more probably just propaganda. Lets also be honest here, those US historians need their eyes testing if they consider her beautiful, she looks like a bath tub with gun ports, probably sailed like one too, there are far more beautiful ships in the US fleet both in terms of look and performance, let alone across the world, then again maybe that's a personal thing.

The USS Ohio was launched as a 74 too, not to the 102 guns specified on this thread, she gained more guns during a remodel that brought her more in line with naval thought of the period, her original armament if I remember correctly was 32 x 32lb on her main + 32 x 32lb on her upper and 10 x 32 on her quarterdeck, these guns were cast to different lengths so as to bring her in line with European naval practise of the time. She was later upgraded with more and more guns being put on the upper deck, the waist being filled in and having her main gun deck having a shorter 42lb gun replace the longer 32lb whilst adding more guns on her weatherdeck.

Thank you for the post but I think the community is fed up of US ships now, there really needs to be more attention paid to the larger more potent European navies that have had no love yet, the Dutch, Portuguese, Venetians and Danish, dare I say it, even the Ottomans too.

I am interested in your claim that Commodore Isaac Hull is incorrect about the USS Ohio's capabilities as he is the first captain of that ship and it served as his flagship for 2 years in the Mediterranean. You should really read his memoirs and journals, I have provided the links for that in my 4th post on this thread. If you think you know more about sailing a ship that was made before your great great grandfather was in diapers vs a captain that sailed her and wrote his feelings on it, then by all means I am all ears.

Calling it "propaganda" is easy, hell I can call half of what that Russian Federation has in their military as "propaganda" based on how crappy their BMP's are designed or at least their export models to Iraq.

As for the armament issues, if you or anyone else can provide actual historical documentation of what her armament was at launch then I would be happy to accommodate that into the build.

As for the timeline it is 1820, and this is set by the MERCURY that is in the game... the Russian Brig Mercury was launched May 19th of 1820, the USS Ohio was launched 11 DAYS after her, same month, same year.

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I'm not entirely sure Ohio /had/ an armament beyond her rated type as a 74, as she was launched into Ordinary. The earliest armament I've seen dates back to the 1830s when she was refit for service. That's the all-32-pdr armament too.

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27 minutes ago, Talos said:

I'm not entirely sure Ohio /had/ an armament beyond her rated type as a 74, as she was launched into Ordinary. The earliest armament I've seen dates back to the 1830s when she was refit for service. That's the all-32-pdr armament too.

Hell if that is the best we can go on being all 32lb'er guns I am fine with that, it's still solid armament.

According to the data I have and have placed on here, the earliest she took on guns that is recorded was 1838, where she was fitted with the armament as described prior. UPDATED: she was fitted for 90 guns, not 102/104. 32x42 , 32x32, 24x42 Carronade, 2 x 32 (fore).

While her commissioning was not until 1838, she was and completed was AFLOAT by May 30th 1820.

As I have said she pushes the limits, no doubt there.

Edited by Spartan0536
updated information
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19 minutes ago, Spartan0536 said:

Hell if that is the best we can go on being all 32lb'er guns I am fine with that, it's still solid armament.

According to the data I have and have placed on here, the earliest she took on guns that is recorded was 1838, where she was fitted with the armament as described prior. UPDATED: she was fitted for 90 guns, not 102/104. 32x42 , 32x32, 32x42 Carronade, 2 x 32 (fore).

While her commissioning was not until 1838, she was and completed was AFLOAT by May 30th 1820.

As I have said she pushes the limits, no doubt there.

The 1820s is when she was commissioned into Ordinary, that is an empty, unrigged hulk.

 

By 1845 she had 88 guns, including 42-pdrs on the Lower Deck and a few 8" guns on the Lower and Upper Decks, and 22 x 42-pdr carronades on the spar deck.

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Just now, Talos said:

The 1820s is when she was commissioned into Ordinary, that is an empty, unrigged hulk.

 

By 1845 she had 88 guns, including 42-pdrs on the Lower Deck and a few 8" guns on the Lower and Upper Decks, and 22 x 42-pdr carronades on the spar deck.

1838 she was fitted for the following armanet and it's documented....

32 x 42lb Cannon (Lower Gun Deck)

32 x  32lb Cannon (Upper Gun Deck)

24 x 42lb Carronade (Spar Deck)

2 x 32lb Cannon (Fore)

No guns aft.

http://3decks.pbworks.com/w/page/916136/USS Ohio (1820)
 

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Just now, Spartan0536 said:

1838 she was fitted for the following armanet and it's documented....

32 x 42lb Cannon (Lower Gun Deck)

32 x  32lb Cannon (Upper Gun Deck)

24 x 42lb Carronade (Spar Deck)

2 x 32lb Cannon (Fore)

No guns aft.

http://3decks.pbworks.com/w/page/916136/USS Ohio (1820)
 

Yes, that dates back to her refit before she's comissioned into service, not from 1820 when she was launched. She wouldn't have been armed in ordinary. The 1845 information comes from a period gunnery manual that goes through the armament of every US Navy ship. It's the one where I finally confirmed USS Macedonian (ii)'s frigate armament of 42-cwt 32-pdrs after several years of looking (it was a toss-up between 42cwt and 46cwt guns. Constellation got them too, she was the only other 2nd-class frigate). It lists Ohio and all the ships of the Delaware class as having the same armament.

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1 minute ago, Talos said:

Yes, that dates back to her refit before she's comissioned into service, not from 1820 when she was launched. She wouldn't have been armed in ordinary. The 1845 information comes from a period gunnery manual that goes through the armament of every US Navy ship. It's the one where I finally confirmed USS Macedonian (ii)'s frigate armament of 42-cwt 32-pdrs after several years of looking (it was a toss-up between 42cwt and 46cwt guns. Constellation got them too, she was the only other 2nd-class frigate). It lists Ohio and all the ships of the Delaware class as having the same armament.

The problem being the shell cannons on the 1845 refit, the 1838 armament has cannons that meet the weapon criteria for the games era limitation.

Edited by Spartan0536

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I know, I was mostly pointing out another confirmed armament for her, mostly to point out when she got the 42-pdrs on her Lower and Spar Decks added on.

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My question is what other 1st rates did the US build that fit in the time period? If there are none I think we should compromise a bit on this one for the sake of gameplay. Every nation should get a 1st rate

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