Infantry Guide to UG:CW

[civsully1]

On 9/26/2017 at 12:31 PM, The Soldier said:

The thing with two 1250 brigades versus one 2500 brigade is something across all units on every level of UGCW (and furthermore, it appears that Infantry is the only type of brigade that doesn't suffer from some the weird same problem that artillery has, meaning the larger the brigade after a certain point, it becomes worse, so you don't have that argument either).  But that being said, why bother with two 1250 brigades when you can have two 2500 brigades?  More firepower, more survivability (taking longer to fire off a volley is peanuts when compared to the lengthy reload time - volley time only becomes vaguely important with repeating rifles).  You're just gibbing yourself when it comes to battles because you're limited by the number of brigades, not the number of men.  No reason not to unless you have one or more of the three problems I mentioned before, and even then, two of those can be avoided with wise management.

No advantage whatsoever to having small infantry brigades.

That's why he's the guru and you (us) aren't!

[JochenHeiden]

Lorenz has not been added to the original post yet. 

[Hitorishizuka]

On 9/26/2017 at 6:01 AM, Friedrich said:

Wanted to ask about what perks you guys have been giving your infantry brigades. in particular I am curious about whether to go with firearms courses or marksmanship training. I also have yet to see a reason to run with discipline courses instead of getting endurance but maybe you have a different perspective on things.

Morale, Marksmanship, Sharpshooting. Morale because rookies run at the slightest bad hit and anything to get over that hump and get them to stay in line is what I'm looking for, Marksmanship because I prefer to get a more accurate first volley and use less ammo, Sharpshooting for the same and the spotting help.

On 9/23/2017 at 2:50 AM, maniacalpenny said:

I can't tell for sure, but I think the effective performance of the Lorenz is barely under that of the Enfield or the 55. In terms of reload/accuracy it is about on par with the two (they actually all sum total 125 reload + accuracy), its real malus is doing less damage: 11.5 vs 12.5. This isn't even a 10% difference, however, and the price of the gun is significantly cheaper. Additionally, although its reload and accuracy sums are similar the Lorenz has higher accuracy while sacrificing reload. Accuracy > Reload however, so this is a slight edge that the Lorenz can help combat its lower damage with.

 

IMO the Sprinfield 1855 is actually quite a bad weapon for its cost, performing worse than the slightly cheaper 1853 in meele and the same or worse in ranged combat. For its price, the Lorenz I think is easily better than either and has a great meele stat to boot. Yes if I didn't have to pay anything for my weapons I would probably choose the 53 over the Lorenz, but this isn't really the case so I tend to try to get all the Lorenz rifles I can (which isn't a massive amount, as either side. But dammit I'll still buy them).

 

On the other hand, the Harpers Ferry 1855 is a decent step up from the regular one for only a small increase in price. This rifle is easily superior to the Lorenz in ranged combat, albiet a decent penny more.

FWIW, I'm coming around to like the Lorenz more as I'm going through the early game again. 2/3 the price for not really that much of a drop off in effectiveness is great when the enemy isn't dropping anything useful on a Normal playthrough and you actually are trying to outfit units.

Cutting costs wherever possible is important towards the goal of building up a giant stack of cash to roll around in (read: spend in a giant orgy in the last campaign bulking out reserve 100 all stat brigades back to usable sizes)

[The Soldier]

If you ask me, I generally run Endurance Training as the Vet 1 perk for my Infantry brigades.  Not so much for the +10 Stamina, but for the +10% Speed you get from the perk, something you can't get anywhere else except Corps Commander perks (adding up to a whopping +25% Speed for an Infantry brigade if you've got all the speed perks - they sprint like Usain Bolt and could make Jackson's Flank at Chancellorsville in half the time).  You can get get 10 points in Morale from just being in a battle for a few hours, if not even that long.  Furthermore, speed is everything in battle, especially for units that come in as reinforcements and have to make the long trek from the map edge to the front line, not to mention tactical maneuvers.  Maybe if Discipline Training got something like +10% Morale Resistance (like the LTG Corps Commander perk), it would make it worthwhile, because otherwise it's a fairly meh perk I think.

[Andre Bolkonsky]

On 9/26/2017 at 12:31 PM, The Soldier said:

 But that being said, why bother with two 1250 brigades when you can have two 2500 brigades? 

No advantage whatsoever to having small infantry brigades.

The Union solution.

Sure, that volley is a bit ragged; but 2,500 veteran Federal troops in line with M1855 Harper's Ferry rifles is a force to be reckoned with. 

Quantity has a quality all its own. 

However, as you yourself have pointed out in the past, the one advantage to small infantry brigades is they level up their XP faster. Small green brigades, but once they pick up that star push 'em up to 2,500 (weapons and ORG permitting). 

[Andre Bolkonsky]

I have mentioned this before, but perhaps its a good time to reiterate. 

I have only two veteran builds for infantry: 

The first units are Rifle brigades, and Rifle is always in their name. Astor Rifles, Scots Rifles, etc. They level up using Discipline / Marksmanship / Sharpshooter. They are designed to stand in line and exchange volleys. And that is all about discipline. You stack the discipline bonuses from a commander, stockpiling Prestige points, and Discipline and you have units that rarely waver and break. Rifles almost always deploy skirmishers who get into mischief of their own. These units are the pride of their corps with the finest arms available. 

The second units upgraded are Assault brigades, they are normally named after a state's mascot: Wolverines, Badgers, Buckeyes, etc. They level up using Endurance / Firearms / Elite. Like Soldier said, they move fast and are designed to get in your face and stay there; and if you waver they're going to charge. They get the best weapons available after the rifles have dinner. Unless I know they are the trump card for assaulting a fortified place, then they get the best melee weapon available. 

Green brigades are leveled up depending on their initial role in the division. 

Corps are based on their battlefield assignment. We use the Bill Belichek gameplan offense. I know the battles pretty well, and keep notes on how  to stack my divisions based on each battle. The core of the army is infantry, but there is plenty of artillery, cavalry and a few long range sniper units mixed in. And always one cavalry corps commanded by a 3-star cavalry commander in the late game, but even that usually has brigades of infantry and artillery attached to it. 

A base infantry division  when 24-brigade corps become available is composed of one 2-star rifle brigade, one 2-star assault brigade, one or two 0/1 star brigades and some combination of artillery / skirmishers / cavalry depending on their battlefield assignment. 

My Old Guard is my Scottish Division composed of: the Blackwatch, a 3-star assault brigade; 3-star Scots Rifles, 3-star 'Lord Spencer's Own' (Guess what arm they carry?); Highlanders, 2,500 man 2-star assault; Mons Meg, a 12-gun 24 PDR howitzer; and the Scots Greys dragoons, carrying Spencer Carbines. 'She's a tiger, a fast ship sailing in harm's way'. 

BTW, all my units get names, and the running narrative in my head as I play would be fun to put on film. 

 

[Andre Bolkonsky]

On 9/25/2017 at 4:09 PM, quicksabre said:

Interesting discussion everyone, thanks! I sent my Spencer brigade in as flankers rather than as line infantry, or at least kept it close to another brigade to soak up hits. But that meant I used them extremely situationally and they often didn't rack up as many kills as my other elite brigades.

Pro tip: 

Spencers are great on the flank or in line with your other brigades, but always make sure you shade your best units. The AI will target the closest brigade. If you're doing micro, move up a lesser brigade just a smidge to absorb damage, pulling it back before it breaks if you can and nudging another 1 star into the spotlight. The Rifles and Assault units in the back do their thing, pouring volleys into the Rebs weak spot where you're also focusing available artillery, and more often than not by the time you're pulling your unit back the enemy is wavering and about to break. 

[The Soldier]

2 hours ago, Andre Bolkonsky said:

However, as you yourself have pointed out in the past, the one advantage to small infantry brigades is they level up their XP faster. Small green brigades, but once they pick up that star push 'em up to 2,500 (weapons and ORG permitting). 

Eh, fair enough.  Just remember that reinforcing a small brigade like that into a giant one is going to cost an arm and a leg - reinforcing the Iron Brigade you get from Antietam to 2,500 costs something like 100k last I checked.

[Andre Bolkonsky]

14 hours ago, The Soldier said:

Eh, fair enough.  Just remember that reinforcing a small brigade like that into a giant one is going to cost an arm and a leg - reinforcing the Iron Brigade you get from Antietam to 2,500 costs something like 100k last I checked.

No, no. At one star, the cost in veterans is very palatable going from around 1,000 to 2,500; assuming you have rifles already in stock. 

A 2,500 man three star brigade; yeah, those puppies are expensive. Break glass only in the event of war. 

[The Soldier]

Most of my brigades reach Vet 1 after their first battle - consider it their rank up from Rookies to Regulars.  They might also gain between 5 and 10 points in most of their combat skills, depending on how well they did and their positioning.  Not sure how a small brigade might affect that rate, however - it might take fewer kills to get their skills up, but at the same time, they deal less damage over time.

[maniacalpenny]

10 hours ago, The Soldier said:

Most of my brigades reach Vet 1 after their first battle - consider it their rank up from Rookies to Regulars.  They might also gain between 5 and 10 points in most of their combat skills, depending on how well they did and their positioning.  Not sure how a small brigade might affect that rate, however - it might take fewer kills to get their skills up, but at the same time, they deal less damage over time.

 Fairly sure it only seems like it takes less time for smaller units to get EXP because EXP is per unit, and they have less units. I'm not exactly sure what the formula for EXP is, but if we assume its purely based on kills then getting 1000 kills on a 1000 man brigade will get twice the EXP as 1000 kills on a 2000 man brigade, which totally makes sense since there are twice as many units in the 2000 man brigade. I'm not sure how it works with losses though, for example, how much EXP a 2000 man brigade will get with 1000 kills if they are depleted to 1000 men.

 

Smaller brigades will get more kills per man so in effect this does technically make them easier to level up, but then you are either stuck with small brigades or spend a fortune enlarging their brigades so like you I don't really see the point. If I REALLY wanted more elites I could just recruit rookies to 0 left, disband an elite brigade and split into 2 new brigades, and then disband the rookies and use them to fill out the new elite brigades with veterans.

[civsully1]

On 9/28/2017 at 8:27 AM, Andre Bolkonsky said:

I have mentioned this before, but perhaps its a good time to reiterate. 

I have only two veteran builds for infantry: 

The first units are Rifle brigades, and Rifle is always in their name. Astor Rifles, Scots Rifles, etc. They level up using Discipline / Marksmanship / Sharpshooter. They are designed to stand in line and exchange volleys. And that is all about discipline. You stack the discipline bonuses from a commander, stockpiling Prestige points, and Discipline and you have units that rarely waver and break. Rifles almost always deploy skirmishers who get into mischief of their own. These units are the pride of their corps with the finest arms available. 

The second units upgraded are Assault brigades, they are normally named after a state's mascot: Wolverines, Badgers, Buckeyes, etc. They level up using Endurance / Firearms / Elite. Like Soldier said, they move fast and are designed to get in your face and stay there; and if you waver they're going to charge. They get the best weapons available after the rifles have dinner. Unless I know they are the trump card for assaulting a fortified place, then they get the best melee weapon available. 

Green brigades are leveled up depending on their initial role in the division. 

Corps are based on their battlefield assignment. We use the Bill Belichek gameplan offense. I know the battles pretty well, and keep notes on how  to stack my divisions based on each battle. The core of the army is infantry, but there is plenty of artillery, cavalry and a few long range sniper units mixed in. And always one cavalry corps commanded by a 3-star cavalry commander in the late game, but even that usually has brigades of infantry and artillery attached to it. 

A base infantry division  when 24-brigade corps become available is composed of one 2-star rifle brigade, one 2-star assault brigade, one or two 0/1 star brigades and some combination of artillery / skirmishers / cavalry depending on their battlefield assignment. 

My Old Guard is my Scottish Division composed of: the Blackwatch, a 3-star assault brigade; 3-star Scots Rifles, 3-star 'Lord Spencer's Own' (Guess what arm they carry?); Highlanders, 2,500 man 2-star assault; Mons Meg, a 12-gun 24 PDR howitzer; and the Scots Greys dragoons, carrying Spencer Carbines. 'She's a tiger, a fast ship sailing in harm's way'. 

BTW, all my units get names, and the running narrative in my head as I play would be fun to put on film. 

 

Wow AB, Loved this post mentioning my favorite coach and the best quote from one of my all time fav John Wayne movies, In Harms Way!!!!!  Excellent AB...Excellent!!!!

[civsully1]

And towards your last sentence AB, it would be a real treat to see you put something like this on Youtube!!!

[The Soldier]

16 minutes ago, civsully1 said:

And towards your last sentence AB, it would be a real treat to see you put something like this on Youtube!!!

We do have his AAR series, though looks like real life has decided to delay any further installments for the moment it seems.

[Andre Bolkonsky]

2 hours ago, The Soldier said:

We do have his AAR series, though looks like real life has decided to delay any further installments for the moment it seems.

Yeah, funny how a teenage daughter and roughly 50" of rain during a five day hurricane flooding out a good chunk of the fourth largest city in America gets in the way of what's important. 

However, I was sitting in traffic thinking of the next installmet. It is back on the table.

[Andre Bolkonsky]

Actually, what was discussed a while back was @Col_Kelly filming a battle with a few of us doing one liners in the background. That could be fun. 

[Andre Bolkonsky]

2 hours ago, civsully1 said:

And towards your last sentence AB, it would be a real treat to see you put something like this on Youtube!!!

I appreciate your kind words, Sully. It is always nice to know someone is actually listening to the voices inside my head besides me. 

[william1993]

I've added the Lorenz

[civsully1]

On 9/30/2017 at 1:30 AM, Andre Bolkonsky said:

I appreciate your kind words, Sully. It is always nice to know someone is actually listening to the voices inside my head besides me. 

Hey AB, If you can't listen to yourself who else can ??

[Captain Quicksave]

I tend to avoid elite infantry, too expensive. If you need a 3 star to get it done, you're probably doing it wrong. Creating a sprawl of 2-star brigades is easy if you're not paying through the nose to maintain a few 3-star brigades. Now artillery however, that's where you get proper bang for your buck! Vets all the way for the guns.

[The Soldier]

I approve of Vet 3 Artillery crews.  Nothing is more fearsome than a battery of 12, 24-Pounder brass bells with the faster reload and canister buff upgrades.

[Hitorishizuka]

3 hours ago, The Soldier said:

I approve of Vet 3 Artillery crews.  Nothing is more fearsome than a battery of 12, 24-Pounder brass bells with the faster reload and canister buff upgrades.

I just feel bad because finally dragging them to Vet3 (which takes like half the campaign) and then I promptly retire them so other units can get the XP.

Same with Vet3 anything, really. It's going to be pretty amazing once I get to the Richmond campaign and get to open my storage back up (so to speak) but I wish there was more payoff now. *laughs*

[Captain Quicksave]

Vet-3 Artillery never get to go on furlough. As opposed to any "precious" 3-star infantry, they get to fight all the time. They go on the map in the first wave even and get to stay until it's done. I've come to realize this quite late in my 2nd campaign with the Union, so I'm looking forward to employing the principle from the start in my next run. The 3-stars get pretty boring assignments though, mainly killing enemy arty. The 2-stars are quite capable of mass slaughter as it is.....

[Hitorishizuka]

3 hours ago, Captain Quicksave said:

Vet-3 Artillery never get to go on furlough. As opposed to any "precious" 3-star infantry, they get to fight all the time. They go on the map in the first wave even and get to stay until it's done. I've come to realize this quite late in my 2nd campaign with the Union, so I'm looking forward to employing the principle from the start in my next run. The 3-stars get pretty boring assignments though, mainly killing enemy arty. The 2-stars are quite capable of mass slaughter as it is.....

They never get any stronger at that point and they're stealing experience from units that still need it. It's not a question of being precious or not.

[The Soldier]

Just not worth losing a Vet 3 artillery battery.  You're really just gibbing yourself, and they're not really "stealing experience".  I think of it as free reinforcements in case they take losses.