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Free port of Viques


Gysendorf

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1 minute ago, Shrez said:

Are you serious? Quantity won almost every war!

Go to school you are uneducated with your false arguments.

Learn history.

Quantity never wins the war. Exactly that is why you need to go back to school.

Now stop explaining something you obviously don`t understand,.Your so called "knowledge" is based on 3rd grade level from Youtube videos. Seen this immediately.

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BS

Soviets won with quantity Americans won win quantity. quantity in Supplies, tanks, soldiers.

Japan lost Germans too coz their industries couldn't keep up with Soviets and US.

Edited by Shrez
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2 minutes ago, Graf Bernadotte said:

Don't forget the delivery of American trucks and materials, without that Stalin would not have been able for his offensives.

This changes what?

While the us only watched? Us joined War after russians offensive starts

Edited by Shrez
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Sorry Graf. I misunderstod what you wrote. Thought you ment that RDNN traders did a heroic thing, an all you ment was that you were businessmen getting at good profit for the risk and effort. 

Sorry for not takeing the time too read your reply probberly.

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8 minutes ago, Graf Bernadotte said:

US entered the war while the German army stand in front of Moscow. The year after they stand at the Volga. I agree that WW II was a war of attrition, but it was American quantity which brought victory also to the USSR.

The Lend-Lease Supplies arrived to Soviets 1942.

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This !

Sometimes we forget that it is just a game, it meant to be a fun moment, not something that can bother you IRL.

I know (and understand) some peoples that are very bothered by this debate and think about leaving the game...Is this really what we want ? Loosing Danish players ?

BF and RTS use game mechanics, we don't agree but we can't do nothing.....we better should accept and deal with the situation, so we can continue having fun TOGETHER in NA ;) 

Edited by Forbin
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This case study shows that we needn't friendly fire when we have port opened in the heart of a nation ... Anyways this is a game so lets take this with a wink of an eye ... RVR is not nation stuff it's private stuff now and this is what I feared but nobody wanted to listen ... Ok, here you have the result ;)

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You did get me wrong. I never said anything against pb system (clan grinding hostilty and then sets up pb battle able to invite anybody the clan members want to, avoid alt jumping or newbies in frigates, that is all ok and good) but the port should belong to the nation. The whole tax / open port system) is a mess as expected ...

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On 24/9/2017 at 2:47 PM, Rune said:

we where at Savannah trying to keep our live oak port for the eastern blok a few weeks when night flips started, i guess you only joined when they closer to cs if you don't know that. we did not break the truce our enemy's propaganda is all you know about it and your are stupid enough to believe every word of it.

while the pirates where in our water we where fighting at the front line like we always do to protect the danish territory and i guess you see never the port battles we set up because you stay close cs and do pve except to sealclub and gank.

maybe first rates are easy to come by when only lose them to pve but rvr is different matter when you can lose from 5 to 10 every day but ofc you would not anything about that 

i hope they coming to maybe a few defeats will open your eyes so you can understand about rvr and cost associated when a well organized enemy is attaching you instead of few pirates     

privileges has to be earned and they can be lost again. maybe you should think more about why you lost them in first place 

and what have DNP been doing when all of this happened if i may ask ? 

you misunderstand me then. imagine your are trying to help someone while they are talking shit to your face. how long would keep trying to help them. and im not saying we are the only ones trying to make the danish nation better in anyway and im grateful for all the other clan that we fight with but i don't see what DNP has ever done for the danish nation, they don't join port battles or screening, mostly they gank and do pve and im fine with but i don't know why they have to try to mettle in rvr when they know nothing about it       

How would you say that we were "ruining your plans"? The same could be said vice versa. Why should RDNN be more important than the nations relations to its french clans? Most of the danish clans are in DN/NG because of affinity with the danish nation. The french chose DN/NG because they felt that this was where they'd be welcome. I for one would've preferred we made them feel more welcome than asking them to wait with flipping a port just so RDNN could get their second and third.

But if you're losing 5-10 you're doing it wrong.. Since the introduction of LO/WO and especially cartagena tar and unlimited repairs you'd have to get isolated and often boarded in order to lose a first rate. Seems to me you need to practise.. But then again I've never seen your name ingame so you're probably new.. As for this "sealclub and gank" business.. I hunt PvP and that's how I like it, mostly in a group of two or three (DNP is a social clan - and active unlike RDNN) and I don't think you can justify calling that ganks.. Not in my understanding of the word that is. As for the christmass truce - North came down in our channel before the flipping of wilmington and he himself said that it was "technically not breaking the truce, but the spirit of the truce".. This is imo the same thing - why make deals with someone that is actively seeking a way to get out of them? - My objection to RDNN is based on the fact that RDNN is untrustworthy - wether this is "technically true" or not.. 

If you only remember Savanah then you were definately not in the nightflips. It was a poor judgment call to try to keep both ports it should've been one or the other. In the event we lost both to poor leadership. But it wasn't the only nightflip and Santo Domingo was retaken. I was there for the most part of the nightflips, in fact as I recall every last one of them but I may have missed one or two - right up till the announcement of the "big patch" and a few weeks after that.. Then the pops just plummeted till the point that it had no meaning. DNP were at almost all the nightflips - for our spanish brethren, for our swedish allies and for the danish as well, the diplo patch ensured that wherever a port was flipped - we were there. We did however only see Tiedemann from the RDNN in some of them and funny enough we sailed to the gulf with our first rates.. But that is probably only five minutes sail from CS...

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On 24/9/2017 at 3:53 PM, Rune said:

i don't care if DNP respects RDNN but a little gratitude for the effort would be nice. but DNP can use anolytic ts to talk bout how bad RDNN is and how much more Honorable they are then us is fine. they sail safely in the in danish water because RDNN and all the others clan worked together to secure them.

if they don't like to follow us nothing stops them from getting 25 players together and doing there own plans and port battles, but every time RDNN did something DNP did not like we got same message from them that they would no longer support us rvr, like the where trying to blackmail us into doing what they wanted to do and mostly we did not care about if they help us or not. but when we do same and say that we will no longer be helping them they call us traitors to the nation. that is what all this is about         

But you kinda are traitorous to the nation. Just read the OP. I said we had our differences with RDNN but as I stated before we kept them inside the nation and in a case by case parameter we decide wether we find it in the interest of the danish nation to support an initiative or not. If any danish port is flipped we will most likely be there.. Except for the new RDNN holdings on the north side of Cuba, we don't care for sealclubbing the spanish, nor the pirates before their populations picks up again.. A good hunter knows not to depopulate a population to the point of no return. The message before this "announcement" was that DNP would not be considered a rogue clan if Lars Kjaer (that is me btw :) ) would be demoted from officer.. Well... I kinda created the clan so... And RDNN don't get to decide anything internally in DNP.. As for the TS.. As I said it is not so expensive and if Anolytic wants it it can be a shared effort but that comes with rights that are not revokable without justification or warning.

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20 hours ago, staun said:

I did not say I agree with BF. And I also Think the argument about Suvoron is wrong. He could wast billions of life. Don't Think the pvp skill we get can compensate if we loose good an dedikatet players.

Not Zjukov but Suvorov - a mediocre russian general during the napoleonic wars that used the burnt ground tactic to wear down Napoleons vaunted and feared grenadiers. The tactic worked. As for BF - with just 5 mins of sailing to the swedes and 20 to the french I'm not buying this is for galvanizing the danish nation. The pirates are being payed and that's it.

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2 hours ago, Peter Goldman said:

If I grind hostility, why I can't say it's MY PB? I don't want to see some people jump MY PB if they didn't bother to come and help with hostility, unless I know them and I add them to "friend list".

Imagine 1 clan generates the hostility, spends 2-3 hours grinding and risking their ships and have suddenly some randoms in frigates or cerberus join and tell you to feck off, they have 100% rights to join PB because they paid 20€ for this game. That's how it used to be for months. No one could prevent it. Stupid alts very often joining PBs as well. That's what you should call nonsense.

Now? If you want to come and play in a PB, move your ass and grind it yourself or ask other clans if you can help. Certainly they won't let you in if you tell them to feck off because you paid 20€.

Completely agree.. Although it only takes 1 hour to build hostility so there I think you're doing it inefficiently (or with low numbers but then again - who the hello kitty wants to do PvE?)..

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49 minutes ago, rediii said:

 

Im a officer of HRE, the carebearclan of NA. Let me tell you some internal knowledge of grinding portbattles and why randoms in portbattles is bad for the game. :D

 

Prepatch you actually needed hours to grind portbattles in some regions since you needed to search for AI ships. I think sant iago took around 2 hours. Seeing that someone else jumps into the portbattle means a huge demotivation to do it again for everyone. The one whos slot got taken will probably not take part again at all. True but I was refering to the current situation and I agree that it is actually a benefit to the game that the clans can "shut out" casuals.

now it doesnt takenso long anymore. But let me give you a example. Yesterday we made a very big effort to get into the navasse portbattle. we lost several 1st rate ships in screening and it was realy tiring to get inside. You can see and hear that in the first minutes of the pb video i made. Offensive PBs should be costly - but doesn't change the fact that first rates are easy to come by.. Just as gold and everything else in the game.

Now think about what would happened if 2 randoms or even 1 joined with a suprise on our side and we would have lost. Participation goes down to almost 0. From 50 guys working together to get shit done there will be max 25 left. The rest stops caring anymore.

Example basic cutter fireships

Example the pb time bug with GB vs spain

Another example is the many randoms/alt joiners of enemy portbattles. It was stupid and many players just stopped caring. You remember that one time when pirate alts joined a danish portbattle to block slots? denmark stopped rvr for some time.

 

Rediii I can't say that I disagree.. Only that firsts aren't that expensive, even if we consider pre-patch..

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6 minutes ago, Peter Goldman said:

Don't forget cost of all cannons + crew.

 

26 minutes ago, rediii said:

Ask the guys that lost their cartahena 1sts.

You get 800k from a 1st rate mission, the woods of all types are in abundant quantities, the labour hours just need 1 or 2 alts in a port that produces LC with LH discount = 300 LH for a 500 LH LC.. The cartagena tar is nice but not required.. The caulking refit is OP but 1) magic upgrades that somehow magically change the characteristics of the ships physics should just go - how does a gazelle figurehead make a ship faster for example? and 2) the tar doesn't make a difference compared to decent tactics..

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5 minutes ago, rediii said:

These magic things give you morr variety in shipbuilding I like it.

Also you should consider the time that goes into building a firstrate. If I lose a 1st it means have to spend hours to transport stuff, hitting up a crafter, get cannons and upgrades together and outfit a new one.

I like to measure things by RL time investment 

Yeah but all mats have been severely nerfed in terms of weight.. Compared to prepatch the first rates are if not dirt cheap then cheap.. And I don't disagree with variety I just think they should come from crafting the ships and not from magic.

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2 hours ago, Bearwall said:

But then again I've never seen your name ingame so you're probably new..

I've never seen any "Bearwall" in the game either, so maybe you should hold your assumptions.

2 hours ago, Bearwall said:

as I stated before we kept them inside the nation and in a case by case parameter we decide wether we find it in the interest of the danish nation to support an initiative or not.

We never demanded your support. We only asked you not to intentionally sabotage.

And as far as keeping it internal, you have repeatedly brought your beef with RDNN to the forums and to Global chat. And if we let DNP in on our RvR-plans, we always knew that we would be able to read about our plans in Global chat shortly after.

2 hours ago, Bearwall said:

Most of the danish clans are in DN/NG because of affinity with the danish nation. The french chose DN/NG because they felt that this was where they'd be welcome. I for one would've preferred we made them feel more welcome than asking them to wait with flipping a port just so RDNN could get their second and third.

Who do you think clans switching nation approached first about making the move? Do you think any clans changed to Danmark because they heard DNP was here? They chose Danmark-Norge because of the notoriety of the RUS/RDNN fleet and because they had fought with RUS/RDNN in battles during the Alliance period.

And as far as helping ACN, we started grinding before them, but we grinded a more time-consuming port, as it was a lineship port. However, had they refused to stop, that would have been fine. They did however agree and in return we helped them grind the next day, from the very first mission to the last. DNP on the other hand blocked them from taking their first port  by taking it instead.

2 hours ago, Bearwall said:

Since the introduction of LO/WO and especially cartagena tar and unlimited repairs you'd have to get isolated and often boarded in order to lose a first rate.

With LO/WO you can't even keep up with the ships fighting in the front. No wonder you wouldn't loose your ship if you don't even get into the fight.

2 hours ago, Bearwall said:

DNP is a social clan - and active unlike RDNN

RDNN is quite social and quite active, thank you very much. We may not thrive as much in a PvE-focused game as other clans, but our activity level is pretty consistent. And whenever other clans, like DNP, goes completely inactive for periods of time, RDNN maintains a steady activity level, both on Teamspeak and in-game. In the last couple weeks there have been more RDNN than DNP on Teamspeak almost every day, and not all our members are on Teamspeak every day. RDNN regularly has activity in-game and on Teamspeak from before maintenance till between two and four AM.

2 hours ago, Bearwall said:

"technically not breaking the truce, but the spirit of the truce"

That is the words of the US diplos. If North even said that, and I don't trust your word that he did, then he was mistaken or misunderstood. A truce goes from when it is agreed to start, till when it is agreed to end. You cannot break a truce after it has ended.

2 hours ago, Bearwall said:

My objection to RDNN is based on the fact that RDNN is untrustworthy - wether this is "technically true" or not.. 

And yet, RDNN has never broken trust or broken our word. That much cannot be said of you.

2 hours ago, Bearwall said:

If you only remember Savanah then you were definately not in the nightflips.

RDNN was there to take Savannah, and we were there to defend it every time. And however much you try to imply it, the distribution of forces when Savannah and Santo Domingo was taken was not decided by RDNN.

2 hours ago, Bearwall said:

I was there for the most part of the nightflips, in fact as I recall every last one of them but I may have missed one or two - right up till the announcement of the "big patch" and a few weeks after that..

I remember several night-flips with not a single DNP present. And with DNP not doing anything useful during the day it is perhaps only fair that the well rested DNP pitched in and helped during the nights. RDNN was there both days and nights.

2 hours ago, Bearwall said:

If any danish port is flipped we will most likely be there.. Except for the new RDNN holdings on the north side of Cuba, we don't care for sealclubbing the spanish, nor the pirates before their populations picks up again..

Yet again you show that you have no idea what is going on, yet you criticise it willingly and without regards for facts. And RDNN has not taken any ports from Pirates nor the Spanish. Nor have we attacked Pirate or Spanish players in north side of Cuba.

2 hours ago, Bearwall said:

But you kinda are traitorous to the nation. Just read the OP.

Read the OP yourself. RDNN isn't even mentioned there. And RDNN has done nothing to betray the Danish-Norwegian nation.

Edited by Anolytic
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1 hour ago, Bearwall said:

How would you say that we were "ruining your plans"? The same could be said vice versa. Why should RDNN be more important than the nations relations to its french clans? Most of the danish clans are in DN/NG because of affinity with the danish nation. The french chose DN/NG because they felt that this was where they'd be welcome. I for one would've preferred we made them feel more welcome than asking them to wait with flipping a port just so RDNN could get their second and third.

But if you're losing 5-10 you're doing it wrong.. Since the introduction of LO/WO and especially cartagena tar and unlimited repairs you'd have to get isolated and often boarded in order to lose a first rate. Seems to me you need to practise.. But then again I've never seen your name ingame so you're probably new.. As for this "sealclub and gank" business.. I hunt PvP and that's how I like it, mostly in a group of two or three (DNP is a social clan - and active unlike RDNN) and I don't think you can justify calling that ganks.. Not in my understanding of the word that is. As for the christmass truce - North came down in our channel before the flipping of wilmington and he himself said that it was "technically not breaking the truce, but the spirit of the truce".. This is imo the same thing - why make deals with someone that is actively seeking a way to get out of them? - My objection to RDNN is based on the fact that RDNN is untrustworthy - wether this is "technically true" or not.. 

If you only remember Savanah then you were definately not in the nightflips. It was a poor judgment call to try to keep both ports it should've been one or the other. In the event we lost both to poor leadership. But it wasn't the only nightflip and Santo Domingo was retaken. I was there for the most part of the nightflips, in fact as I recall every last one of them but I may have missed one or two - right up till the announcement of the "big patch" and a few weeks after that.. Then the pops just plummeted till the point that it had no meaning. DNP were at almost all the nightflips - for our spanish brethren, for our swedish allies and for the danish as well, the diplo patch ensured that wherever a port was flipped - we were there. We did however only see Tiedemann from the RDNN in some of them and funny enough we sailed to the gulf with our first rates.. But that is probably only five minutes sail from CS...

we asked ACN to stop and they agreed but DNP did not just to irritate RDNN and RUS i think that would count as ruining our plan for no other reasons then spite.

when we attacked the swedes we lost around 5 ships and the same when they attacked road town later, so 2 port battles a day could easily react 10 ships but again you would not know anything about this because you have no experience in rvr. you even say you are pvp player so why do you assume you know anything about rvr matters at all ?  and you where not there doing the diplomatic meeting about the Christmas truce, so you only know what have been said about it after and instead of trusting your own nation about what the agreements was you chose to trust the enemy's version about it.

there was about 2 weeks of night flips before Savannah and santa domingo was attacked at the same time and i never saw any DNP players doing those 2 weeks and night flips more then anything else burns players out, RDNN talked to all of our allies to try to get enough players to defend the 2 most important ports we had and again i have to go back to you having no experience in how rvr works. because its not as easy at just telling ppl to sail for 3-5 hours to defend a port as you might think and ppl who said they would come can run in rl issues and some ppl would only go to 1 port and not the other, then bring this together with the fact that we don't have diplomats that know Spanish and french so communication can be hard with can mean mistakes. but your right if i had the knowledge that we would not have enough players we would had limited our efforts to 1 port. and your where not at all of the night flips you only join the last ones when they came close to danish core territory and most of the others players had been burned out.

2 hours ago, Bearwall said:

But you kinda are traitorous to the nation. Just read the OP. I said we had our differences with RDNN but as I stated before we kept them inside the nation and in a case by case parameter we decide wether we find it in the interest of the danish nation to support an initiative or not. If any danish port is flipped we will most likely be there.. Except for the new RDNN holdings on the north side of Cuba, we don't care for sealclubbing the spanish, nor the pirates before their populations picks up again.. A good hunter knows not to depopulate a population to the point of no return. The message before this "announcement" was that DNP would not be considered a rogue clan if Lars Kjaer (that is me btw :) ) would be demoted from officer.. Well... I kinda created the clan so... And RDNN don't get to decide anything internally in DNP.. As for the TS.. As I said it is not so expensive and if Anolytic wants it it can be a shared effort but that comes with rights that are not revokable without justification or warning.

again not true i remember a couple of time DNP have told us they you would no longer be helping RDNN in rvr the difference is that we don't need your clan for rvr and if DNP don't want to play with RDNN why should we help you out.

i think your mistaken about the difference between a rights and privileges. privileges are conditional and can be withdrawn while rights are inherent and cannot be withdrawn. you did not help him create the danish ts why should share it with you now and if it so easy to make new one why don't you just make your own and give everyone admin rights if you really think that work out well. its all ways easy to come in after when all the hard work is done.

again no one is stopping from getting your own port battles fleet together and training them then make your own ts they way you want it, then you can make own diplomatic agreements and we can stop this stupid discussion but as long as you try to demand RDNN should help you in port battles or any other battles for that matter then it will be under our terms. and the op is about the free ports i don't see how that make us traitors, but i guess you are talking about the post where we said we would no longer be defending DNP ports. RDNN and RUS have all ways showed up when another nation has attacked us so if we did not make it official no one would ever attack you because they would think we would be defending your ports. so if we had only told you you would still be living under our protection at lest in the other nations minds. maybe someone will attack you maybe they wont, we are just giving you the chance to show the great DNP port battle fleet and how you amazing organization from your extensive experience in rvr would be.                                        

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