Why did players leave?

[Ehutchin78]

I will say the discord app is super cool. I don't need a headset just my ear plugs and iPhone and I'm chatting in game. I did think of two things thst might help the game.  Stuff to think about. 

1. Right now we have "books". I miss the color of the old modules so why don't the developers add color to the books? Crew modules are red, Ship turning modules green etc. It adds some color back to the interface and easily distinguishes what type of book you've found. (Not rarity) 

2. Hear me out here...disable the chat in the battle instance for speaking to your opponent. Hear me out... I would bet a lot of people became turned off to PVP because it could/would become too personal.  Making it less personal is more inviting in a video game. 

3. I'll add 3..officers previously gave a reason to surrender or strike your colors. There should still be a reason to strike your colors. I'd say maybe save Crew if they weren't so cheap to acquire. 

Thoughts?

Hutch 

global server 

[Jack Jones]

So I took 4 months off.

Just jumped in a cutter and chased down a AI trader brig.

Took it apart slowly, rear, sails, crew. Boarded it and took it. felt good to be back.

Thought @I could maybe sit around the edges picking up traders etc and be a bit sneaky for a bit. then BAM!!!!

NO EXP.....NO GOLD......NO progression at ALL!!!

How the hell is this in any way good?

Took the  wind out of my sails. Sad....I miss the days of old.

 

[Farrago]

1 hour ago, Honourable Bluetooth said:

So I took 4 months off.

Just jumped in a cutter and chased down a AI trader brig.

Took it apart slowly, rear, sails, crew. Boarded it and took it. felt good to be back.

Thought @I could maybe sit around the edges picking up traders etc and be a bit sneaky for a bit. then BAM!!!!

NO EXP.....NO GOLD......NO progression at ALL!!!

How the hell is this in any way good?

Took the  wind out of my sails. Sad....I miss the days of old.

 

Keep the one or two traders you need. Take the cargo and sink the rest. You'll get XP and gold if you sink the capped ship.

[Jack Jones]

Ok thanks for the reply. 

[Blkmgc]

14 hours ago, Honourable Bluetooth said:

So I took 4 months off.

Just jumped in a cutter and chased down a AI trader brig.

Took it apart slowly, rear, sails, crew. Boarded it and took it. felt good to be back.

Thought @I could maybe sit around the edges picking up traders etc and be a bit sneaky for a bit. then BAM!!!!

NO EXP.....NO GOLD......NO progression at ALL!!!

How the hell is this in any way good?

Took the  wind out of my sails. Sad....I miss the days of old.

 

This is what I dont get either. Why no XP for capturing ships when its much much harder to do at lower levels than sinking? I can see no gold since your getting the ship and its cargo, but it should at least give XP for the effort. Makes no sense.

[Jack Jones]

2 hours ago, Blkmgc said:

This is what I dont get either. Why no XP for capturing ships when its much much harder to do at lower levels than sinking? I can see no gold since your getting the ship and its cargo, but it should at least give XP for the effort. Makes no sense.

Takes longer and is more skilful yet no exp......its a let down. 

[IndianaGeoff]

On 9/27/2017 at 8:23 AM, Honourable Bluetooth said:

Takes longer and is more skilful yet no exp......its a let down. 

You get the ship.

[Slim McSauce]

8 hours ago, IndianaGeoff said:

You get the ship.

But you don't get any XP

[victor]

9 hours ago, IndianaGeoff said:

You get the ship.

Yep, but a ship that - excluding traders that you can actually sell for some gold - is worth almost nothing most of times since they are vastly out performed by crafted ones.

I'm not into capping ships, but I see on the market that prices of capped ships are low and - despite that - no one buys them.

That happens because now people gain more gold in missions so they can afford crafted ships.

So basically, maybe the solution is not giving XP or gold to cappers, but letting IA ships to have all the random combinations of wood/wood and/or wood/crew that you can put in crafted ships. So that if you cap, let's say, a cedar/cedar surprise you can actually sell it with a proper gain.

Edited September 29, 2017 by victor

[Fletch]

I left because I felt every rule change was skewed more and more against the casual player. The odds were being stacked in favour of people that simply wanted to cull new players around capitals. Port battles by the very nature of allowing only 25 ships in became very elitist, port battle could of been an open  battle lasting many hours with anyone able to enter but restricting numbers means of course only the 25 best ships can take part. In short it lost a lot of the fun out of it.

 

[AfkSailor]

What I hate is having to craft effing repairs just to participate in a PVP battle. Bring back the old days where shops sell repairs!

[Farrago]

5 hours ago, Fletch67 said:

I left because I felt every rule change was skewed more and more against the casual player. The odds were being stacked in favour of people that simply wanted to cull new players around capitals. Port battles by the very nature of allowing only 25 ships in became very elitist, port battle could of been an open  battle lasting many hours with anyone able to enter but restricting numbers means of course only the 25 best ships can take part. In short it lost a lot of the fun out of it.

 

It's your lucky day. The game is very friendly to casual players right now. Come on back.

As for not being able to get in port battles, perhaps it is time for a nation change. Or check in again with your current nation. Port battles I see reported on both servers are often not full.

[Barbancourt]

6 hours ago, Fletch67 said:

I left because I felt every rule change was skewed more and more against the casual player. The odds were being stacked in favour of people that simply wanted to cull new players around capitals. Port battles by the very nature of allowing only 25 ships in became very elitist, port battle could of been an open  battle lasting many hours with anyone able to enter but restricting numbers means of course only the 25 best ships can take part. In short it lost a lot of the fun out of it.

 

There have been big changes in those areas, but being in a clan (of any size) is still pretty essential for taking part in anything. 

 

Edited October 17, 2017 by Barbancourt (rownd)

[Sunleader]

On 8/31/2017 at 12:11 PM, Simon Cadete said:

I know that there are bad mechanics in the game, I know that the game consumes a lot of time and a lot of it is doing boring things(trading, crafting and moving stuff around. I also know that we have different time zone players in the server and that makes it harder for decent port battles. 

With all that said. I'm curious to know specific reasons why people in global quit. I know that a lot don't log in to the game but still check the forums.

So, why did players stop playing?

Because its pretty much overrun by Gankers and RPKs.

The only PvP you get on Open World is Ganking and Sealclubbing where there is no Contest and no Challenge cause the Battle is decided long before it even Started.

The only PvE Content you got is killing more and more NPCs.

 

The PvE Oriented Players which do little or no PvP just all leave cause they get bored and annoyed by Gankers.

The PvPers leave as well cause the Gankers and Sealclubbers are not interested in real PvP or RvR thus not providing any Fun for them.

And then at the end the RPKs and Gankers leave themselves because there is nobody left in Open World who can be griefed by them.

 

An all too common issue for Games which Fail to realize that Unrestricted PvP is always abused by Griefers and Gankers.

Edited October 17, 2017 by Sunleader

[Raekur]

Pros:

Contrary to what some have experienced I have been running a test with an alt account I created. The idea is to see how well a solo player can survive. With the trading boost solo players can accumulate enough funds to pay for any replacement ships that may be lost due to combat. 

Cons:

There are still a few pirates who prey on players who obviously can not crew a ship strong enough to put up a fight and thus they are left with only 2 options. Either join a clan or be forced to pay for escorts who can if they chose require large sums of gold for their service. 

Overall:

Things are improving mechanics wise but there are still a few players who persist in attempts to undermine the game and cause as much havoc as possible for their own amusement regardless of the effect it has on the player base and upon new players.

[Genma Saotome]

On 8/31/2017 at 8:19 PM, Ratarded said:

I LOVE this game but, the penalty for getting sunk is so bad, time wise, that its like once i get sunk, might as well log off until tomorrow. Yea don't teleport me to my nearest outpost where I might have a ship, punish me for sailing an hour to go find someone to fight, and teleport me to an enemy port......now i can buy a basic cutter from them and sail it back to my outpost, destroy the cannons, and then sell it to clean up my dock space that costs more credits than a damn 1st rate.

 

I would donate a million ships to my enemies if i could just get right back into the fight, most of the time when i get back into a ship to go find another fight, my recently killed says <10 mins.

 

I know this reply is awfully late but the comments above represent, IMO, the root cause of what ails NA: The cost of losing a ship or a port is too high.

 

Consider that taking a port away from another country -- and keeping it -- would require a fairly large number of troops.  That's expensive and so what was much more common was plundering the port and leaving.  If something like plunder and leave was in this game there would still be port battles but few to no takeovers (e.g., maybe it should cost something like 10-20 million gold to buy an occupation army; very expensive but still could occur). The effect would be countries will remain closer in balance over a longer period of time.

Similarly consider that Captains were "issued" ships, they did not buy them.  So instead of crafting (or buying one) for yourself all combat ships com e via the Admiralty and are issued to Captains based on their experience.  Lose your ship? Admiralty replaces it within, say, 24 hours for NA and less than 1 hour for Legends. Crafting would be done for the Admiralty so those who enjoy  that aspect of the game can continue to do it.  Want to make money instead? Sail in trade ships.

My point is the DEV's will never be able to find a balance that allows all factions, whether they are countries or clans, to remain on equal footing (allowing perpetual even conflict) simply because similarly skilled persons play at different times and in different numbers.  The balance they want is a hopeless quest and players who come up with the short end of the stick (re-read quoted comments above) will more often than not throw in the towel and leave.  OTOH if the consequences of losing a battle are addressed over a very short time any player suffering a loss knows he will be made whole again by tomorrow -- he will be back tomorrow to play again.

Edited October 19, 2017 by Genma Saotome

[Fletch]

On 10/17/2017 at 11:37 PM, Farrago said:

It's your lucky day. The game is very friendly to casual players right now. Come on back.

As for not being able to get in port battles, perhaps it is time for a nation change. Or check in again with your current nation. Port battles I see reported on both servers are often not full.

Thank you I have returned made a fresh start with one of the new nations. Game is much friendlier to lower levels now.

 

[Jean Ribault]

On ‎10‎/‎17‎/‎2017 at 7:21 PM, Sunleader said:

...

 

The PvE Oriented Players which do little or no PvP just all leave cause they get bored and annoyed by Gankers.

The PvPers leave as well cause the Gankers and Sealclubbers are not interested in real PvP or RvR thus not providing any Fun for them.

And then at the end the RPKs and Gankers leave themselves because there is nobody left in Open World who can be griefed by them.

 

An all too common issue for Games which Fail to realize that Unrestricted PvP is always abused by Griefers and Gankers.

 

I didn't quit the game, but don't really log into the pvp global server anymore.  This post above is a pretty good start why.  My gameplay on global rolled over to pve focus in the last 6 to 8 months I was there, and I enjoyed being on that server for 18 months but finally got sick of the constant bickering and poor atmosphere.  I didn't quit the game though, because it's not the fault of the game.  I love the game, and just moved to the pve server.  Apart from a few players who are still figuring it out on that server, the atmosphere is usually friendly, and players tend to help each other succeed, and that's one of the things I like in the game.

[Rigs]

On 10/17/2017 at 7:21 PM, Sunleader said:

Because its pretty much overrun by Gankers and RPKs.

The only PvP you get on Open World is Ganking and Sealclubbing where there is no Contest and no Challenge cause the Battle is decided long before it even Started.

The only PvE Content you got is killing more and more NPCs.

 

The PvE Oriented Players which do little or no PvP just all leave cause they get bored and annoyed by Gankers.

The PvPers leave as well cause the Gankers and Sealclubbers are not interested in real PvP or RvR thus not providing any Fun for them.

And then at the end the RPKs and Gankers leave themselves because there is nobody left in Open World who can be griefed by them.

 

An all too common issue for Games which Fail to realize that Unrestricted PvP is always abused by Griefers and Gankers.

 

1 hour ago, Jean Ribault said:

 

I didn't quit the game, but don't really log into the pvp global server anymore.  This post above is a pretty good start why.  My gameplay on global rolled over to pve focus in the last 6 to 8 months I was there, and I enjoyed being on that server for 18 months but finally got sick of the constant bickering and poor atmosphere.  I didn't quit the game though, because it's not the fault of the game.  I love the game, and just moved to the pve server.  Apart from a few players who are still figuring it out on that server, the atmosphere is usually friendly, and players tend to help each other succeed, and that's one of the things I like in the game.

I agree.

I have to point out:

1) Gankers and Sealclubbers are the loudest and get their way as a result of that.

2) The other players just get fed up and quit without even saying a word because why bother. The gankers act the same way in forums as they act in game. More so they will make the things worse for them in game.

3) The game development cycle. The devs at times implement features for newer, single, PvE players because of the population decrease but then they listen to the gankers and they start adjusting/taking them back.

4) The game is being developed with the mentality to force you into PvP and feed the gankers so they have something to do.

The OW PvP, it's all about gank or be ganked.

5) The game is built around grief and sense of loss.

5) The game keep adding arbitrary end points without any real content.

Too much time consuming and high costs to get there and repeat same thing over and over.

All the books, mods, ship knowledge require RNG/Grinding and create imbalance when it comes down to PvP. 

For example the latest patch (13) just raised the speed cap and the added bonus caps to enable more books/mods.

All for PvP marks (see 4). This content will encourage ganking furthermore which will become more OP (race boat ganking).

In the end, it takes too long to get to the end game and then realize there are no real end activities besides pestering others.

Again, this just my point of view and from talking to others.

Edited October 31, 2017 by Rigs

[IndianaGeoff]

Rigs is right.  There is no need to incentivize PvP.  The PvP'ers do it for free.

[Slamz]

On 8/31/2017 at 12:28 PM, admin said:

We have problems converting new players to veteran players. 

I know a long time ago I proposed switching to a model where we earned XP per ship rather than ranking up. This would allow a new player to jump right into a Surprise (assuming he could afford one or, more likely, a clanmate gave him one) and be competitive immediately.

Well..... you did add ship XP but you added it overtop of existing rank XP which meant veterans had to spend time grinding XP again and new players basically have two grinds: one to rank up and potentially a second one to get the ships they want unlocked to the point they desire.

Really I'm not convinced we need XP at all. This is not a PvE game. There is not enough PvE content to call it a "PvE game" regardless of the fact that some people try to play it that way. This is a survival game, more like RUST than it is like WOW. Go out and kill or be killed. In a game like that (this), you need disparity between players to be somewhat restricted and easy to bridge.

In WOW it's okay for a level 80 to crush a level 40 because for the most part the game prevents that from ever coming up as an option.

It's not okay in a game like this. It's a big reason I think it's hard to convert newbies to veterans: apart from the learning curve that means a newbie Surprise will lose to a veteran Surprise anyway, we additionally cripple the newbie by forcing him into a ship that has no chance in even if he was an amazing sailor.

 

Edited October 31, 2017 by Slamz

[Slamz]

7 hours ago, Rigs said:

1) Gankers and Sealclubbers

A lot of people seem to wonder how we can prevent ganking and seal clubbing, as in physically stopping it via BR limits or other draconian measures.

The better question is why people behave that way to begin with and I think the answer is that for the most part it's just that those are the fights that are the easiest to find and most consistently rewarding.

I'm a veteran in a veteran group and we spot your group of veterans. In a perfect game, we should want to fight because [INSERT DISTINCT STRATEGIC REASON TO FIGHT HERE]. Our fight somehow influences who controls the local resources. We fight to secure the shipping lanes. We fight for all those tonnes of white oak logs. There is a distinct strategic reason for us to engage in this very costly and time consuming high stakes battle between veterans.

For the most part that does not exist and never has. In reality we all lose a lot of ships and gain absolutely nothing. In fact, since PvP ships are not the same ships as port battle ships, we didn't even impair each other's ability to fight over that port battle tomorrow. We pretty much just duked it out for funsies, which only gets you so much gameplay.

So since 95% of battles are strategically worthless, this naturally pushes players into whatever is easiest and most immediately rewarding: seal clubbing! It's not worth a lot but it's always worth a little!

 

I think the solution is that somehow each battle must be strategically meaningful. It should end up being almost impossible to NOT impact the game on a strategic level. If my Surprise sinks your Surprise in the middle of nowhere, that should still, somehow, have some sort of meaningful strategic impact beyond the loss of a relatively trivial amount of materials.

We simply have not tied the OW PvP game into the strategic map elements strongly enough.

Edited October 31, 2017 by Slamz

[Rigs]

1 hour ago, Slamz said:

A lot of people seem to wonder how we can prevent ganking and seal clubbing, as in physically stopping it via BR limits or other draconian measures.

The better question is why people behave that way to begin with and I think the answer is that for the most part it's just that those are the fights that are the easiest to find and most consistently rewarding.

I'm a veteran in a veteran group and we spot your group of veterans. In a perfect game, we should want to fight because [INSERT DISTINCT STRATEGIC REASON TO FIGHT HERE]. Our fight somehow influences who controls the local resources. We fight to secure the shipping lanes. We fight for all those tonnes of white oak logs. There is a distinct strategic reason for us to engage in this very costly and time consuming high stakes battle between veterans.

For the most part that does not exist and never has. In reality we all lose a lot of ships and gain absolutely nothing. In fact, since PvP ships are not the same ships as port battle ships, we didn't even impair each other's ability to fight over that port battle tomorrow. We pretty much just duked it out for funsies, which only gets you so much gameplay.

So since 95% of battles are strategically worthless, this naturally pushes players into whatever is easiest and most immediately rewarding: seal clubbing! It's not worth a lot but it's always worth a little!

 

I think the solution is that somehow each battle must be strategically meaningful. It should end up being almost impossible to NOT impact the game on a strategic level. If my Surprise sinks your Surprise in the middle of nowhere, that should still, somehow, have some sort of meaningful strategic impact beyond the loss of a relatively trivial amount of materials.

* We simply have not tied the OW PvP game into the strategic map elements strongly enough.

I completely agree. 

I do believe that a game development reflects upon the player base, targets more of a certain type of players and as a result deter others. 

Because of the reasons mentioned above (*), lack of strategy, meaningful, competitive PvP and basically ow end game content there is no requirement for thinking, planning and or preparing. As a result game has molded/sustained more of the player types below.

1) type that measure satisfaction based on the loss/pain/misery caused to other players and they are not interested in anything else. (griefer)

2) types that are not interested in any sorts of competition and they just feed on the anything that's easy. (pk'ers)

The game needs players, in order to do that it needs to be more inclusive for all kinds of players through meaningful and strategic content.

Idle hands and minds... 

There are still some players out there that just hang in there for the love of the game and actually try to make it better but they are mostly not heard.

For example an idea on one of many ways we could possibly incentivize veteran players fighting each other in OW and leave clubbing alone;

Create a pvp ranking system based on the amount of kills. The PvP rank/title should be displayed and the rewards should be based on the PvP ranking. Killing lower ranks players should yield less to no rewards and vice versa. Groups, apply the sum/difference of PvP ranking.

Edited October 31, 2017 by Rigs

[Sunleader]

On 31.10.2017 at 9:59 PM, IndianaGeoff said:

Rigs is right.  There is no need to incentivize PvP.  The PvP'ers do it for free.

 

Pretty much this.

 

People who have Fun doing PvP will do PvP anyways. If they got Fun they dont care about incentives or whatever.

People who dont have Fun doing PvP will not do PvP. Trying to force em will only result in them leaving the Game.

 

Games are about Fun. Being forced to do something you dont like is not Fun. People dont play a game if its not Fun.

 

 

I cant really understand why thats so hard to understand for so many Devs......

[z4ys]

1 hour ago, Sunleader said:

 

Pretty much this.

 

People who have Fun doing PvP will do PvP anyways. If they got Fun they dont care about incentives or whatever.

People who dont have Fun doing PvP will not do PvP. Trying to force em will only result in them leaving the Game.

 

Games are about Fun. Being forced to do something you dont like is not Fun. People dont play a game if its not Fun.

 

 

I cant really understand why thats so hard to understand for so many Devs......

The place where nobody can force someone to do something is called pve server. Pvp is always connected to forcing people. 

How many fights do you will get when you ask your opponent if he wants to fight you? I tell you it leads to boredom.

Nobody wants even fight because we all want to win. It's called self-preservation instinct.

If someone can't handle loss in a game he shouldn't play a game were loss is a big part of the game.