Why did players leave?

[Stepp636]

8 hours ago, IndianaGeoff said:

Yes, but the old players have come and gone.  Lots of new players got frustrated and quit.

They might come back after Beta or release, but they for sure are not coming back before.  Once bitten twice shy.  Some of them are quite chewed up.

In the end, a man who worked his way up to Rear Admiral and want's to sail the bigger ships, is not going to grind for weeks to get a ship he can't afford to lose.

But as I've said this is not really the case anymore.

You can get easily all basic crafting stuff and money etc..

ElricTheThree quit due to that hardcore setting and if enjoys the battles in NA he can come back and try the new sailing profiles of the ships.

[Jean Ribault]

At this point IMO it boils down to 3 major things, although there are more small things.  First was many newbs left because of lack of protection to get a foothold, but the devs implemented the controversial protection zones to try to help fix that.  I think maybe it helped.  But the other two things are lack of content depth and lack of end game.  That's why all these threads and/or posts about boring game and nothing to do, etc.  They won't implement any kind of career mode or career path, nor add pieces of the hundreds of good content suggestions I've seen on this forum.  Without an end game you just spin wheels, especially if your content is limited.

[George Washington]

32 minutes ago, Jean Ribault said:

At this point IMO it boils down to 3 major things, although there are more small things.  First was many newbs left because of lack of protection to get a foothold, but the devs implemented the controversial protection zones to try to help fix that.  I think maybe it helped.  But the other two things are lack of content depth and lack of end game.  That's why all these threads and/or posts about boring game and nothing to do, etc.  They won't implement any kind of career mode or career path, nor add pieces of the hundreds of good content suggestions I've seen on this forum.  Without an end game you just spin wheels, especially if your content is limited.

I mean they are Developers, they should know this right?. How come we as simple Peasants tell them what to do? and even teach them. Why their work upset so many? Look at their FB latest post. All comments are negative. I agree with you here, strong pve foundation is the first step in any good MMO. 

Edited December 9, 2017 by George Washington

[IndianaGeoff]

2 hours ago, Stepp636 said:

But as I've said this is not really the case anymore.

You can get easily all basic crafting stuff and money etc..

ElricTheThree quit due to that hardcore setting and if enjoys the battles in NA he can come back and try the new sailing profiles of the ships.

They might come back and try the game after the next and last wipe (if it is).  But they are not coming back before.  They moved on, found something else and may never return.  Devs screwed up big in the hardmode era.  Any change they do that effects the grind needs to be mathed out.  Go out find out how long it takes to level or reach a goal and multiply it by the number of those you have.  I don't know the exact hour mark where players say screw it, but hardmode was way over that line.  Rather than slowing all progression, this created an unbridgeable gulf between the 6 hour a day players and the 1 to 3 hour, 2 or 3 nights a week guys.

[Teutonic]

At least for me recently it has been the lack of things to do.

I'll be back I am sure, it's just both being burnt out and boring. Same ships still OP, no endgame content for small groups (low BR ports helped though), new players having a hard time with the game and old players leaving.

It's a vicious cycle where people leave because low population and boring, new people stop playing because no one to play with.

I have 2 gripes with the game right now

1. Crafting levels only on ships is dumb and we need to go back to gaining experience from all crafting.

2. Current ship balance leaves many to "never see the light of day." Why sail X when Y does it all better and more.

[IndianaGeoff]

I agree.  They simply need some mechanic to have a small group fight that can happen in a hour or two.  Something with a reward/penalty large enough to generate a defense response. The port battle mechanic is better now, but with a 2 day cycle... it is not spontaneous.

And while I don't want to see 25 vs 25 1st rates battles as the only port battles return... it would be nice to have them every now and then.

Edited December 9, 2017 by IndianaGeoff

[fox2run]

Maybe so... but why did players leave?

[Rebrall]

Well mostly most people “completed” there end game there is nothing new,

there is new ships coming I believe but that’s only interesting for 10mins,

 

and from my stand point having downtime smack bang in the middle of my main play time kinda stops me playing to achieve something so i played something else with the intention of playing more on the weekend but I put time into another game and haven’t come back 🤷‍♀️,

I hope after this ui and tutorial is done which is also a good thing the focus on some pve aspects even as a pvp player I don’t mind some pve now and again and a lot  of pvp players don’t realize they need pve players to make the game work.

also a lack of players to do anything with does not help unfortunately I have also contributed to that by no longer playing but it would help once they have implemented new things they let old players know via steam mail atleast they then could try it out and possibly stay 

[IndianaGeoff]

7 hours ago, Wraith said:

Definitely agree, we need tools to get player-generated content to work. And 25 v. 25 first rate battles would happen spontaneously if we had 25 players outside the port battle fleets who could screen... As it stands now, some nations (supposedly, I'm looking at you MARS) can't even get 17 shallow water captains together for a port they flipped. 

Yea, player numbers are down.  Can't count on a response for any port battle these days.

[Simon Cadete]

After you level up on rank and crafting there is nothing to do. Sinking ai ships for a specific book that you never get in the random loot is boring and annoying. 

They just haven’t had no true new content in a while.

you need to create a lot of pve content to bring back or keep the pvers which make out the biggest percentage of players. Once you have hundreds of players in game again, pvp will come back. Pve generates pvp not the other way around. 

For the time being. I think shrinking the map considerably along with new content is the only way to go to revive the game.

[fox2run]

Did players leave becourse the game got more and more restricted? The multiplayer battles harder and harder to find? The grind to get a ship too long? Your hard-earned 1st rates got wiped?

I did, so I guees it counts for many more than me :-)

NB: And Im a history-buff with a degree in naval history, so its not that I dislike historical correctness (what on earth are these polish and russian nations doing in the West-Indies?)

 

Edited December 11, 2017 by fox2run

[victor]

On 11/2/2017 at 12:09 PM, z4ys said:

 

 

Its a sandbox we are all free to have different point of views.

Point is that some POVs - if shared by the devs - make the game flourish, while others make players mass quit.

So, you may have your POV, but if it makes a lot of players quit, basically it's not a good POV for the game.

[jodgi]

1 hour ago, Simon Cadete said:

After you level up on rank and crafting there is nothing to do.

This must be the PvE mindset I often wonder about. "We need more stuff then everything will be fine..." until they've exhausted that content and go back to "We need more..."

I've played a pure-PvP game where there was no grind. Almost full access to "end-game content" from the start. By your definition that game started out with "there is nothing to do". I played for years.

You PvE guys are like sharks with their funky digestive system: Forever looking for food, always eating but never happy no matter how much stuff is thrown at you. It will be this perpetual purgatory unless you reach nirvana and start living for "The Fight".

[Slim McSauce]

3 minutes ago, jodgi said:

This must be the PvE mindset I often wonder about. "We need more stuff then everything will be fine..." until they've exhausted that content and go back to "We need more..."

I've played a pure-PvP game where there was no grind. Almost full access to "end-game content" from the start. By your definition that game started out with "there is nothing to do". I played for years.

You PvE guys are like sharks with their funky digestive system: Forever looking for food, always eating but never happy no matter how much stuff is thrown at you. It will be this perpetual purgatory unless you reach nirvana and start living for "The Fight".

You can never please the PVE crowd. PVE in NA is objectively not fun, you are fighting the same ships over and over, there are no dungeons, bosses, or special enemies. You will not be fulfilled doing NA PVE, and if you are we have a server that devs pay money to keep up for you specifically. Stop trying to force PVE on the PVP server.

Edited December 11, 2017 by Slim Jimmerson

[Christendom]

Good PVE creates good PVP.   Maybe one day the devs and jodgi will grasp the concept.  

[fox2run]

24 minutes ago, Christendom said:

Good PVE creates good PVP.   Maybe one day the devs and jodgi will grasp the concept.  

Bad pvp-options force players to do pve or leave. Most choosed the ladder. PvP is todays standard if you like a good battle. 

[Slim McSauce]

25 minutes ago, Christendom said:

Good PVE creates good PVP.   Maybe one day the devs and jodgi will grasp the concept.  

Tell that to the PVE server, its just as bad over there as it is on global!

[IndianaGeoff]

59 minutes ago, Christendom said:

Good PVE creates good PVP.   Maybe one day the devs and jodgi will grasp the concept.  

Yes, that is 100% correct.

What does not work is unrestricted seal clubbing and zero safe ship bashing as some seem to be wedded to.  We tried that.  It failed.

[jodgi]

29 minutes ago, Christendom said:

Good PVE creates good PVP.   Maybe one day the devs and jodgi will grasp the concept.

I categorically stay away from any and all forms of PvE. I came to NA without knowing there would be a PvE element. I was lured in by fantastic PvP during Sea Trials. I probably wouldn't have been here if I found NA post EA. "Oh, look at that video with fighting ships... That looks really..." ... "Oh, no! It's a little like EVE but with sailing ships, how unfortunate!"

I grasp the concept, don't worry, but in my taste it is inferior to pure-PvP however well it's made. For fantastic NA I'm actually willing to compromise a little and pay a small fun-tax of interacting with a computer if it's so important to some people. But the time commitment with PvE to get a competitive ship in OW is far beyond what I can force myself to bear. On top of an already ubearable situation eco/PvE adds PvP timidness which I have no use for, they call it "depth" and "meaning" ¯\_(ツ)_/¯.

I've tried so hard to make it work for me, I'm sorry I wasn't able to.

[Simon Cadete]

1 hour ago, jodgi said:

This must be the PvE mindset I often wonder about. "We need more stuff then everything will be fine..." until they've exhausted that content and go back to "We need more..."

I've played a pure-PvP game where there was no grind. Almost full access to "end-game content" from the start. By your definition that game started out with "there is nothing to do". I played for years.

You PvE guys are like sharks with their funky digestive system: Forever looking for food, always eating but never happy no matter how much stuff is thrown at you. It will be this perpetual purgatory unless you reach nirvana and start living for "The Fight".

I probably have done more pvp in one day than you have in a week. Asking for more pve doesn’t make me a pver. Pve players are the prey for pvp players to hunt. Take away those players and all you have left is gank squads and counter gank squads.

Pvp is at its best when you have a lot of players on. No mechanics work to encourage pvp when you have 100 players online. Most people do pve and most people are also prey so if you think you can get people back some other way i’m All hears

[IndianaGeoff]

1 hour ago, jodgi said:

I categorically stay away from any and all forms of PvE. I came to NA without knowing there would be a PvE element. I was lured in by fantastic PvP during Sea Trials. I probably wouldn't have been here if I found NA post EA. "Oh, look at that video with fighting ships... That looks really..." ... "Oh, no! It's a little like EVE but with sailing ships, how unfortunate!"

I grasp the concept, don't worry, but in my taste it is inferior to pure-PvP however well it's made. For fantastic NA I'm actually willing to compromise a little and pay a small fun-tax of interacting with a computer if it's so important to some people. But the time commitment with PvE to get a competitive ship in OW is far beyond what I can force myself to bear. On top of an already ubearable situation eco/PvE adds PvP timidness which I have no use for, they call it "depth" and "meaning" ¯\_(ツ)_/¯.

I've tried so hard to make it work for me, I'm sorry I wasn't able to.

Clearly Legends is going to be your game.  That is OK.  Just the way it is. Not good or bad.

[Baptiste Gallouédec]

I'm out for the second time actually, mostly because other games i play have been released or added content.

 

I play NA under french flag on eu pvp servers since the steam release, except new ships, and cosmetic coastal battles, the game looks the same, a dull sandbox where an incredible number of mecanics have been changed/tested/reverted/rushed/trashed. 

 

1- Econ is broken (Gold is not rare except for lone rookies while it should be the other way if you want to make them stay and keep vets balanced.) No server reset make for huge imbalance

2- Ressource production is dull,  uninteresting and not challenging. Plus this make for great inbalance between nations.

3- No content to make ow sailing less boring and more rewarding appart giving ship turbospeed, no ow content minigame, no ow ship management..

4- PvP & RvR risk/reward is lame (cf: 1 & 3)  No real win appart making your opponent loose his ship. No minor loss - minor victory when one opponent flee after receiving several damages or opponents agree to seperate without killing each others. Griefing is the rule.

5- Toxicity inside the community with the removal (instead of rebalance) of nation vs nation diplomacy vote, nations are a mess and clans matters take too much weight. Lack of server reset.  

6- Nothing about roleplay have been introduced to make me feel like a captain and  sense of progression, once top level you can't go back even if you are trash, and there is nothing you can't do better than a low level player because of money/loot system. No incitation to sail outside my capital, hunt or explore the world.

7- Ships meta is the worse. Newbs have no chance  to gain anything outside pve in cutters or cheap/failfit/not upgraded ships. Only few classes have a value in game, and upgrades / perks / books / quality brake any balance in game. Even ship's Br are a joke, so late after the steam release, it appears you have no idea on how to solve that.

8- Grind:  rank, craft, knowledge => linear grind, ppl hate it, but it give so many advantage, not doing it put you at risk. Easier/ faster to grind through pve => deserve the game.

 

 

With the sandbox ow at the steam release, i was hoping for at least something like a mount&blade kind of sandbox, even without 3rd person view, you associate yourself to friends, sail accross the ow, choose a career as trader, privateer, officer, organise under your nation to capture ports in landing operations, ports with real value and identity and where you can build some business. At sea you try to kill other fleets or assist  capture other player''s valuable cargo. Make a name.. If sunk or captured, you loose money or fame.

 

You had the fondations right, yet years afters, the game looks more like a warehouse-manager with Rage -chat-of-doom plus bot fighting missions and 20 vets pvp-rvr l33t sniping your masts, bouncing your shots, outturning , outrunning everything, infinite repairs & boarding fitted humiliating everyone else, holding the few valuable ports and having nothing else left to do but griefing everyone else and making a joke of newbies in recovery position hiding in pve zones.

What are devs working on ? Sails strenght rework, port windows back.. ok  now i just want to see the final product. Because we are back to two years ago, with less people but more nations and gamebreaking upgrades and new physics.

 

 

I will not play NA legend  for now as i'm done with the grind and the bot fights. 

[fox2run]

1 hour ago, Baptiste Gallouédec said:

I'm out for the second time actually, mostly because other games i play have been released or added content.

 

I play NA under french flag on eu pvp servers since the steam release, except new ships, and cosmetic coastal battles, the game looks the same, a dull sandbox where an incredible number of mecanics have been changed/tested/reverted/rushed/trashed. 

 

1- Econ is broken (Gold is not rare except for lone rookies while it should be the other way if you want to make them stay and keep vets balanced.) No server reset make for huge imbalance

2- Ressource production is dull,  uninteresting and not challenging. Plus this make for great inbalance between nations.

3- No content to make ow sailing less boring and more rewarding appart giving ship turbospeed, no ow content minigame, no ow ship management..

4- PvP & RvR risk/reward is lame (cf: 1 & 3)  No real win appart making your opponent loose his ship. No minor loss - minor victory when one opponent flee after receiving several damages or opponents agree to seperate without killing each others. Griefing is the rule.

5- Toxicity inside the community with the removal (instead of rebalance) of nation vs nation diplomacy vote, nations are a mess and clans matters take too much weight. Lack of server reset.  

6- Nothing about roleplay have been introduced to make me feel like a captain and  sense of progression, once top level you can't go back even if you are trash, and there is nothing you can't do better than a low level player because of money/loot system. No incitation to sail outside my capital, hunt or explore the world.

7- Ships meta is the worse. Newbs have no chance  to gain anything outside pve in cutters or cheap/failfit/not upgraded ships. Only few classes have a value in game, and upgrades / perks / books / quality brake any balance in game. Even ship's Br are a joke, so late after the steam release, it appears you have no idea on how to solve that.

8- Grind:  rank, craft, knowledge => linear grind, ppl hate it, but it give so many advantage, not doing it put you at risk. Easier/ faster to grind through pve => deserve the game.

 

 

With the sandbox ow at the steam release, i was hoping for at least something like a mount&blade kind of sandbox, even without 3rd person view, you associate yourself to friends, sail accross the ow, choose a career as trader, privateer, officer, organise under your nation to capture ports in landing operations, ports with real value and identity and where you can build some business. At sea you try to kill other fleets or assist  capture other player''s valuable cargo. Make a name.. If sunk or captured, you loose money or fame.

 

You had the fondations right, yet years afters, the game looks more like a warehouse-manager with Rage -chat-of-doom plus bot fighting missions and 20 vets pvp-rvr l33t sniping your masts, bouncing your shots, outturning , outrunning everything, infinite repairs & boarding fitted humiliating everyone else, holding the few valuable ports and having nothing else left to do but griefing everyone else and making a joke of newbies in recovery position hiding in pve zones.

What are devs working on ? Sails strenght rework, port windows back.. ok  now i just want to see the final product. Because we are back to two years ago, with less people but more nations and gamebreaking upgrades and new physics.

 

 

I will not play NA legend  for now as i'm done with the grind and the bot fights. 

+1

[Yngvarr]

On 12/11/2017 at 1:55 PM, fox2run said:

what on earth are these polish and russian nations doing in the West-Indies?

yeah, no sense in it really...splitting up an already small player-base in yet another 3 extra nations.

we can miss that as much as an anvil being dropped on our heads.

PS: You forgot the Prussians.

[Sir Texas Sir]

25 minutes ago, Yngvarr said:

yeah, no sense in it really...splitting up an already small player-base in yet another 3 extra nations.

we can miss that as much as an anvil being dropped on our heads.

PS: You forgot the Prussians.

The Prussians actually had a port though.  For 4 years and like 100 years before this time last me lol