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Player selected ship 2017 - Suggestions

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4 hours ago, Malachi said:

But I don´t think another british ship is going to happen anytime soon :P

I don't either which kind of frustrates me mainly because I think the large british 2nd rates need a bit of love, other than that the British Americans and French are pretty well covered, although the French desperately need a 74. Maybe once we have a bit more of a diverse line up we can come back to some of Slade's era defining designs.

Edited by Fluffy Fishy

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On 9/4/2017 at 2:21 PM, Fluffy Fishy said:

I don't either which kind of frustrates me mainly because I think the large british 2nd rates need a bit of love, other than that the British Americans and French are pretty well covered, although the French desperately need a 74. Maybe once we have a bit more of a diverse line up we can come back to some of Slade's era defining designs.

A french 74 would be nice, but I´d actually prefer one of Ollivier´s designs over those of Sané. Like Le Monarque of 1747:

 

 

Speaking of Ollivier, we abso-********-lutely need his Le Fleuron in-game :P

Edited by Malachi
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On 30.8.2017 at 0:45 PM, admin said:

3rd rates 70-80 guns (we only have 1.5 ships in this range)

Dutch ship De Zeven Provinciën (1665) ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dutch_ship_De_Zeven_Provinciën_(1665) ) Not sure if this is design is too old but a suggestion can't harm, i guess.

Edited by Captain Lust

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Why do we have people suggesting french and british ships? Dont we have enough of them already? Whats next? Yall gonna be suggesting even more american ones?

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53 minutes ago, OlavDeng2 said:

Why do we have people suggesting french and british ships? Dont we have enough of them already? Whats next? Yall gonna be suggesting even more american ones?

To be fair there is quite a lot to choose from Olav well except for our Merican cuzins:P

https://www.amazon.co.uk/British-Warships-Age-Sail-1714-1792-ebook/dp/B00K5B72GO/ref=pd_sim_351_1?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1&refRID=BJXVZ61YTF4KKF10PRDN

Reread the 3rd rate section of the above but as we already have the Bellona anything else would be just rude

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On 9/4/2017 at 5:30 PM, OlavDeng2 said:

Why do we have people suggesting french and british ships? Dont we have enough of them already? Whats next? Yall gonna be suggesting even more american ones?

I agree on that, atm we have:

American : 9 ships, 2 merchants, 1 non craftable

British : 11 ships, 2 merchants, 1 non craftable

French : 5 ships, 1 merchant

German (Hamburg) : 1 ship

Russian : 4 ships

Swedish : 1 ship, 1 pre-order redeem, 1 merchant

Spanish : 1 ship, 1 reward ship

Danish : 1 in progress

Pirate refits : 2 ships

Dutch : none 

Venetian : none

Portugese : none

I really think people should start take a look at the numbers here and think by themselfs why do we have so many of minority nations and a very large English/American fleet, also looking at France, represented whilst more common nation are underrepresented, talking about the one who don't have any ships listed here.

Edited by pietjenoob
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1) 

On 04/09/2017 at 5:30 PM, OlavDeng2 said:

Why do we have people suggesting french and british ships? 

Well because it's... allowed :

On 30/08/2017 at 0:45 PM, admin said:

Other great models will also be allowed but we would prefer underrepresented nations. 

2)

On 04/09/2017 at 5:30 PM, OlavDeng2 said:

Dont we have enough of them already?

No. And not enough of the other nations :)

Edited by LeBoiteux
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21 minutes ago, LeBoiteux said:

No. And not enough of other nations.

As pietjes list... the dutch have 0 ships... The spain i somewhat understand, they only have 1 ship, the swedes, danes all of that, somewhat understand, but the french? The Americans? The British? They have 5+ ships, which is an infinite amount more than dutch ships... You gotta give the dutch at least a bone... its been way too long and the only thing the dutch have gotten is a swedish merchantman that the british used -.-

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16 hours ago, OlavDeng2 said:

its been way too long and the only thing the dutch have gotten is a swedish merchantman that the british used -.-

Which is the Dutch Hekboot or for non Dutch speaking Hagboat on which the Indiaman is based on.

Edited by pietjenoob

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12 hours ago, Malachi said:

That´s the model of the model of the Winchelsea, though. And if I could choose another frigate by Slade (we already have the Coventry-class Cerberus), I´d pick the Southampton.

A ridiculous long active service career with a lot of prizes, had the british king onboard twice and captured a 44-gun frigate shortly before she sank in 1812.

But I don´t think another british ship is going to happen anytime soon :P

 

 

My suggestion, the danish Friderichsværn :

 

 

  Reveal hidden contents

 

36 guns, 1784

 

  Hide contents

 

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Dimensions:

 

Length:                                                          127' (danish)        / 130' 10'' (imperial)

Breadth:                                                          36' (danish)        /   37' 1''    (imperial)

Depth in Hold:                                                 17' 2'' (danish)    /   17' 8''    (imperial)

Draught Foreward                                                                          14' 2''    (imperial)

Draught Aft                                                                                     15' 2''    (imperial)

 

Height of middle gunport above the water                                       6' 2'' (imperial)

 

L/B Ratio              3,53

 

Armament:

 

26* danish 12-pounders

10* danish 4-pounders (later replaced by 12-pounder carronades)

 

Designed by H. Gerner, probably Denmark's most eminent shipwright in the 18th century, Friderichsværn was one of seven ships of the Bornholm-class. Launched 1784 and captured by HMS Comus before the 2nd Battle of Copenhagen. Sold 1814.

 

Other ships in class:

Bornholm       (1774, only 24 12-pounder on the upper deck)

Kiel                (1775)

Moen             (1777)

St. Thomas    (1779)

Cronborg        (1781)

Det Store Belt (1782)

 

 

 

Oh shoot, my apologies! Southampton, as I understand, was the first of Slade's 12pdr ships, she would definitely be an excellent option as well! Niger is described in "The Sailing Frigate: A History in Ship Models" as a slightly improved version of Southampton hence why I rolled with Niger:)

The Friderichsvaern looks pretty sweet, by the way. 

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On 9/2/2017 at 6:47 PM, LeBoiteux said:

@admin The French Hermione is described by sources as a 32-gun frigate (26 x 12-pdr + 6 x 6-pdr) :

NA has implemented her in the Testbed with 42 guns (26 x 12-pdr + 16 x 6-pdr), if I ain't mistaken.

 

Indeed I believe the replica is armed with 6x6pdr per Boudriot. At least when I was onboard she had 6 x 6pdr on the QD. 

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6 hours ago, DeRuyter said:

Indeed I believe the replica is armed with 6x6pdr per Boudriot. At least when I was onboard she had 6 x 6pdr on the QD. 

About the replica, @Surcouf will know it ! The official web site says (in French) 6 x 6-pfr on the QD : https://www.hermione.com/projet/le-defi-de-lhermione/

Doesn't Gamelabs want to mix 9-pdr frigates and 12-pdr ones when it comes to Light frigates (from 26-gun Cerberus to 38-gun Surprise) to have only 9-pdr ones ? Interesting question to me.

Edited by LeBoiteux

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3 hours ago, LeBoiteux said:

About the replica, @Surcouf will know it ! The official web site says (in French) 6 x 6-pfr on the QD : https://www.hermione.com/projet/le-defi-de-lhermione/

Doesn't Gamelabs want to mix 9-pdr frigates and 12-pdr ones when it comes to Light frigates (from 26-gun Cerberus to 38-gun Surprise) to have only 9-pdr ones ? Interesting question to me.

On the 2016 trip, we had only 22-gun of 12-pdr and 6-gun of 6-pdr.
But we could have 28-gun of 12-pdr and 12-gun of 6-pdr. This is the maximum we can have on board. There is a historical discussion on the number of gun-ports. Pierced to 13 or 14 port-guns (without the port-gun front hunting front).

On the replica, we do not put the guns on the Q'Deck because it gets us too much in the maneuvers. Same reason for upper deck, some guns are not set.

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49 minutes ago, Surcouf said:

On the 2016 trip, we had only 22-gun of 12-pdr and 6-gun of 6-pdr.
But we could have 28-gun of 12-pdr and 12-gun of 6-pdr. This is the maximum we can have on board. There is a historical discussion on the number of gun-ports. Pierced to 13 or 14 port-guns (without the port-gun front hunting front).

On the replica, we do not put the guns on the Q'Deck because it gets us too much in the maneuvers. Same reason for upper deck, some guns are not set.

@Surcouf Boudriot describes most of French 12-pdr frigates built between 1748 and 1790 as carrying between 26 and 36 guns, very often 32 guns (26 x12 + 6 x 6) as it is the case for the Hermione. See History of the frigate, p. 156-157.

 Does it mean that Boudriot used to choose the lowest possible number (is it the nominal one ?) of guns when estimating it in his work ?

(And Gamelabs... the highest one ? :D)

Edited by LeBoiteux

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No, it does not choose the lowest. It follows the rules and customs. Almost all the frigates were pierced with 13-guns. More time and space to 14-guns.

On a drawing of Chevillard we can read "la Concorde, la Courageous, l'Hermione and la Fée of 26-guns of 12-pdr in upper deck" (26 canons de 12 livres en batterie).
So the Hermione would have 26-guns of 12-pdr, and the others too. Except that la Concorde to 28-guns in reality ...

This is the only one in the series with 28-guns (?). I believe that yes, and I believe that the drawings of la Concorde have changed during ship building, but than the other frigates are built with 26-guns.

Why 28 for la Concorde? Maybe a test. I think...

The replica of l'Hermione is pierced at 14-guns, for me it's a mistake.

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Just as an extra option since there is quite some information about it:

 

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23 minutes ago, Surcouf said:

No, it does not choose the lowest. It follows the rules and customs. Almost all the frigates were pierced with 13-guns. More time and space to 14-guns.

On a drawing of Chevillard we can read "la Concorde, la Courageous, l'Hermione and la Fée of 26-guns of 12-pdr in upper deck" (26 canons de 12 livres en batterie).
So the Hermione would have 26-guns of 12-pdr, and the others too. Except that la Concorde to 28-guns in reality ...

This is the only one in the series with 28-guns (?). I believe that yes, and I believe that the drawings of la Concorde have changed during ship building, but than the other frigates are built with 26-guns.

Why 28 for la Concorde? Maybe a test. I think...

The replica of l'Hermione is pierced at 14-guns, for me it's a mistake.

My point about Boudriot choosing the lowest number was more about the number of guns on the Quarterdeck / forecastle : most of the time, Boudriot estimates that number at 6 guns on the 12-pdr frigates while you give a maximum of 12 guns and Gamelabs put 16 guns on the Hermione. :)

Edited by LeBoiteux
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52 minutes ago, Sella22 said:

Just as an extra option since there is quite some information about it:

 

A 34-gun frigate carrying 24-pdr guns and oars ! 

Edited by LeBoiteux

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1 hour ago, LeBoiteux said:

My point about Boudriot choosing the lowest number was more about the number of guns on the Quarterdeck / forecastle : most of the time, Boudriot estimates that number at 6 guns on the 12-pdr frigates while you give a maximum of 12 guns and Gamelabs put 16 guns on the Hermione. :)

Normally it is 6x6-pdr BUT:

Note that on the drawing of the replica, there are 10 positions for guns on the forecastle + 2 for howitzers and 4 on the quaterdeck as on the drawing of la Concorde.

Mr de Latouche wrote in January 1780 (for l'Hermione):
26-gun of 12-pdr,8-gun of 6-pdr, 10 pounders (English name for pierrier???), 4 of a half pound, 4 howitzers.

That is 38 guns + 14 pounder.
The howitzers are on the forecastle in the back, 6 of 6-pdr on the forecastle and 2 of 6-pdr on the quaterdeck.

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43 minutes ago, Surcouf said:

Normally it is 6x6-pdr BUT:

Note that on the drawing of the replica, there are 10 positions for guns on the forecastle + 2 for howitzers and 4 on the quaterdeck as on the drawing of la Concorde.

Mr de Latouche wrote in January 1780 (for l'Hermione):
26-gun of 12-pdr,8-gun of 6-pdr, 10 pounders (English name for pierrier???), 4 of a half pound, 4 howitzers.

That is 38 guns + 14 pounder.
The howitzers are on the forecastle in the back, 6 of 6-pdr on the forecastle and 2 of 6-pdr on the quaterdeck.

Thx for this complete answer :).

The question remains : what is Admin looking for, when he asks in this poll :

On 30/08/2017 at 0:45 PM, admin said:

Requirements in broadside guns

  • Light frigates 32-36 guns (we have no ships in this range) 

The French Hermione implemented in the Testbed and the Spanish Diana selected during the last poll are both 12-pdr frigates with 26 portholes and carrying, at least on paper, 32 guns, on which you can add almost as many guns on the QD/fc as you wish. So what is a light frigate in NA if not the Hermione ? A 9-pdr one ? A 12-pdr ship carrying say 20 guns on the gundeck and 12 on the QD/fc ?

 I just ask that question to know what to suggest in this poll and to know what we'll be able to play in NA. 

Edited by LeBoiteux

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1 hour ago, LeBoiteux said:

A 34-gun frigate carrying 24-pdr guns and oars ! 

Yeah it isn't quite "light" :D

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7 minutes ago, Sella22 said:

Yeah it isn't quite "light" :D

Indeed ! I've just came across the fact that France also made two 24-pdr frigates in 1772, 'light' ones in a way as they carried only 38 guns : La Pourvoyeuse et La Consolante. Your Saint Nicholas would feel less alone :D

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They never carried 24-pounders, though. Their designer lost his political mentor and this whole project got kinda shelved (and subsequently both ships never saw action as actual warships).

Speaking of 'light' frigates,  there´s Thompson´s plan from 1781 for a 38-gun ship with 30 32-pounders. Would this be considered a medium frigate, then? :P

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