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Player selected ship 2017 - Suggestions


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6 minutes ago, Salty Dog on Global said:

Wouldn't it make more sense to spend time modeling out a generic class (say "Dutch 3rd Rate" or "Dutch light frigate") then using the generic model to produce several specific ships of that class.  Each ship sharing the same model but having slightly different stats...one slightly faster/less armor...one with a little more armor/slower speed....one that turns slightly faster/heels more....one that has slightly larger guns/masts turns slower....ect....  Then change a few small details on the model like paint, figurehead, stern design for each version of the generic class?

Well we already got that with the woodtypes, but saying a Dutch 3rd rate is the same as a the 3rd rate ingame really hurts. Dutch have a flat belly for example and other qualities. So if you want the current 3rd rate then I would reccommand check the French and Spanish ships first, they have more in common than the Dutch ships for example.

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Captains. We need to fill 3 gaps in the ship line up. Please propose ships for the consideration.  Requirements in broadside guns Light frigates 32-36 guns (we have no ships in this rang

For Dutch, The Vrijheid 74 gun   The 7 Provinciën 74 gun Prins Friso 50 gun The Leeuwenhorst/Edam 56 gun   slighty lower gun count but unkown 30 gun  

Le Redoutable, the ship that fought the HMS Victory at Trafalgar and almost boarded it, also the ship that "killed" Nelson. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/French_ship_Redoutable_(1791) More than 100

Posted Images

Out of interest why are we not including ships from 60-74 guns, Agamemnon needs to have at least some alternative at the 64 range.

The other thing I find frustrating is the fact that basically if you want a Venetian ship you almost have to go for Fama, the ships built before 1784 are all single hulled, ships like Speranza and San Carlo Borromeo and Leon Trionfante, so would have to be somewhat weaker than their contemporaries, at least in armour and thickness, although they would make up for this with a bit of speed. The other options are ships like Palma and Cerere which I can't easily get plans for or to include ships that sadly weren't completed until the French or Austrian occupations like Le Muiron.

Fama is the heaviest frigate I have ever come across, she is also the most impressive in a lot of ways, and more importantly she is the best ship made in late Venice so would represent the city very well, the other bonuses to doing fama is she has greatly detailed A1 plans that come with the book Das Erbe der Serenissima and also a model that is the pride of place in the Austrian military museum.

The other option is to balance this historically and let Venetian ships equip the glorious Tirar Bombe as bow chasers as was historical and they can rain down explosive shells to great accuracy beyond the range of any other in game cannons. What's not to love about a 120/200lb explosive weapon? ;)

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6 hours ago, admin said:

Captains. We need to fill 3 gaps in the ship line up.

Please propose ships for the consideration. 

Requirements in broadside guns

  • Light frigates 32-36 guns (we have no ships in this range)
  • Heavy frigates 50-60 guns (we only have trincomalee and constitution in this range)
  • 3rd rates 70-80 guns (we only have 1.5 ships in this range)

All other gun counts will not be considered

Nation preference

  • Dutch
  • Portuguese
  • Venetian

Other great models will also be allowed but we would prefer underrepresented nations. 

there are at this moment no Danish or swedish ships in game

 

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2 hours ago, Intrepido said:

Because he prefers the Montañes, which fits much better in the overall NA time frame.

May I ask on what basis u think that Steelsandwhich likes the Montañes? I know for sure that he is a Dutch Ship-fanatic 

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Well i am portuguese so... :)

 

In this link below we have information about important ships in the portuguese navy in the naval action time period. ( paintings, some models photos, history , the captains, gun loadouts, dimensions, etc )

http://marinhadeguerraportuguesa.blogspot.com/2013/04/navios-da-real-marinha-de-guerra.html

 

1st rate "Principe Real". This was the most powerful ship in the portuguese navy and it is interesting that the gun loadouts changed several times. 

1771 -  90 guns

1793 - 86 guns

1794 - 98 guns

1800 - 110 guns

1807 - 74 guns

So in the end they changed the gun loadout to a 3rd rate but keeping the most powerful guns maybe with the idea to improve mobility but keeping the punch.

The gun loadout in the 1800 configuration was: 34 x 32 pounds; 34 x 24 pounds;  28 x 12 pounds; 14 x 8 pounds

So, imo  if the devs have the idea of having a national tech tree in naval action legends maybe is best to keep this ship in the first rate configuration for the portuguese navy.

 

2nd rate "Vasco da Gama"

In this case it happens the opposite . The gun configuration changed from 80 guns to 94 in the 1801 configuration.

 

Then we have some 3rd rates with 80, 74, 68, 66 and 64 guns loadouts.

"Conde Dom Henrique"

"Medusa"

"Maria I"

"Rainha de Portugal"

"Dom João de Castro"

"Nossa Senhora das Mercês"

"Martim de Freitas"

"Princesa da Beira"

"São Sebastião" - This ship in particular is interesting about what happened with the gun loadout. In 1811 they removed almost all the big guns and changed for light guns. I think maybe the idea was the need to have a fast ship with enough firepower and quick reload to chase pirates.

1811 gun loadout: 2 x 18 pounds ; 4 x 12 pounds ; 8 x 9 pounds ;  40 x 6 pounds ; 9 x 4 pounds

"Afonso Alburquerque"

"Nossa Senhora de Belém"

"Principe do Brasil"

"São Francisco de Xavier"

 

If needed i can help the devs in researching or translate the texts to english.

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3 hours ago, NielsVisser said:

why not, we got the wappen, so they cant say its not in the time frame

 

3 hours ago, Rickard said:

hows that?

Wappen was build in 1722-ish if my memory isn't completely failing. The Rex is never existed, yet was merely aimed at representing the Dutch warships at the turn of the century. The stern and the galleries are dead giveaway that its 1690-1700. Don't get me wrong, the model itself is outstanding, and the design behind it is surely interesting, yet just doesn't complement this game. And to my knowledge, only a single

 

Especially, and pietje has already posted parts of it, given the collection of actual ship and plans that exist. The research has already been done, the data is there, and is several cases also the 3D hull models (Looking at you there Bungee;)).

But, i have said this time and time again, the effort was put in and yielded results, it's all about the using that.

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35 minutes ago, Reorx Redbeard said:

there are at this moment no Danish or swedish ships in game

 

But there is 1 swedish ship on the testbed(ignoring other chapman designs like the yacht and the indiaman) and there is 1 danish ship in development. Nothing on Dutch, Portuguese or Venetian ships

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+1 to the suggestions by @pietjenoob for the Dutch ships.

To narrow it down Delft as suggested by @Jœrnson would be a good 4th rate/heavy frigate, notably she was in the Battle of Camperdown (Kamperduin) vs. the British. 

https://threedecks.org/index.php?display_type=show_ship&id=1292

Also the Vrihied for a 3rd rate (74) she also fought at Camperdown.

The Venetians had some interesting frigates (some built to French plans). What do you think @Fluffy Fishy Several were involved in the Battle of Lissa:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Lissa_(1811

The Corona (40) or the Bellona (32)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/French_frigate_Corona_(1807

https://threedecks.org/index.php?display_type=show_ship&id=22633

The Hebe class French frigates would also be a good choice for a heavy frigate as someone already posted.

Re the Concorde class 32 gun frigate @George Washington we do have the L'Hermione incoming and on the testbed. But you right that class is a good representation of the 12lb frigate.

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I need to say that the Chattam is a direct sistership to the "Admiraal de Ruyter" which looked exactly like my model bevore her modernization.

She carries 78 guns on her broadside. Maybe only 76 because I am not 100% sure if the forecastle held 4 or 6 guns. Its possible my 5th and 6th cannon is too much.

That said she is a perfect heavy 3rd rate. lots of big guns - a mediocore crewcount

 

About the william rex:

She is a fantasy ship. Its a model that represents the shipbuilding of the dutch around 1700+/-. There are no real ships from which she was modeled from. Its more a mix of all

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52 minutes ago, OlavDeng2 said:

But there is 1 swedish ship on the testbed(ignoring other chapman designs like the yacht and the indiaman) and there is 1 danish ship in development. Nothing on Dutch, Portuguese or Venetian ships

that corret, but Portugal and venice are not nations in the game, so why not consentrate on ships from nations that are in the game.  

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Portuguese navy smaller ships. ( last part )

Fortunately the author "Pedro Cruz" that made the research and i used to mention about the 1st , 2nd and 3rd rate ships also made an amazing work in researching smaller ships to this time period. All credits go to him for his amazing work.

 

-Portuguese 5th and 6th rate ships.

http://marinhadeguerraportuguesa.blogspot.co.id/2011/01/navios-da-real-marinha-portuguesa-ii.html

 

-Portuguese Brigantines.

http://marinhadeguerraportuguesa.blogspot.co.id/2011/01/navios-da-real-marinha-de-guerra.html

 

-Portuguese Brigs.

http://marinhadeguerraportuguesa.blogspot.co.id/2011/09/navios-da-real-da-marinha-de-guerra.html

 

- Smaller ships ( cutters , schooners , etc, etc ) unfortanely few pictures.

http://marinhadeguerraportuguesa.blogspot.co.id/2011/01/navios-da-real-marinha-de-guerra_20.html

 

-Portuguese 4th rate ships, unfortanely no images but with important information about the gun loadouts.

http://marinhadeguerraportuguesa.blogspot.co.id/2011/01/navios-da-real-marinha-de-guerra_05.html

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8 hours ago, Intrepido said:

What? Why not Spain?

It is quite underrepresented considering it was one of the main navies in the NA timeframe. And please dont tell me that we have lots of spanish ships in the game, which it is not true.

Because of the reasons above mentioned my proposal is a spanish third of the line, the Montañes.

They don't want to do a Spanish nothing special. They didn´t see nothing about Caribbean Sea at 18 thCentury. They don´t worry about Spanishs complaint...Really don´t worth to explain the lack of realism and the lack of historical view in this game. For me they can do Chinesse Ship and put in the middle of La Habana with a Australian Flag. Does no matter about it for the DEVs.  Be happy ....the game will never be realistic...that means Spanish History will be ignorated. 

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Well as portuguese i would like to see the portuguese navy in the future naval action legends, but because there is already the naval action game i think the dutch navy should have the highest priority. I don't have any problems to wait and i really like the dutch design. Beautiful ships.

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2 hours ago, DeRuyter said:

The Venetians had some interesting frigates (some built to French plans). What do you think @Fluffy Fishy Several were involved in the Battle of Lissa:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Lissa_(1811

The Corona (40) or the Bellona (32)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/French_frigate_Corona_(1807

https://threedecks.org/index.php?display_type=show_ship&id=22633

Bellona was built in 1788, shes a Palma class frigate with 38 guns, she isnt a French design, shes double hulled too, I mentioned Palma in the previous post I made. Corona isn't really Venetian at all, she is a Hortense class frigate, just one of the many ships built in Venice by the French during the 2nd occupation.

If you want a double hulled ship like all the others in the game you are basically just restricted to the option of having Fama, Palma, Pallade, Cerere, If you combine in the ships completed after the fall of Venice you only gain the "44 Cannoni" (Muiron) and "1780" (La Harpe). Otherwise you are basically selecting from a list of ships with single hulls or built after Venice fell.

I'd like to see at least one of the Fregata grossa classes make it: Fama (1784), Vigilanza (1757), Speranza (1752), San Michiel Angelo (1743) or Sant Andrea 2 (1724) all at 40 guns except Fama. Realistically the best resources out there are all pointing into Fama, she has one of the most comprehensive ship posts on the whole forum here too and would make one of the most interesting choices too as she is quite different from anything else in the game at the moment.

Other ships include SoLs: San Lorenzo Zustinian, which is kind of too old at being 1691, Corona (1714) a one off 74 which doesn't have plans that I know of, Leon Trionfante which has a very long history and would make a potentially interesting choice due to her forward thinking design. San Carlo Borromeo, which is a bit of a wet fish, the ships were 66s so fall into the unloved category for this selection but also weren't particularly great and weren't favoured over the older Leon Trionfante design.

When it comes to smaller ships the only real other contenders the frigates of the Classes Constanza 2 (1757) and Scudo Delle Fede (1715) and while Venice did make a lot of Xebecs I don't really have any named plans for them, its an area of history that isn't particularly covered.

Fama is the ultimate choice if you are going to represent Venice, she is really the ultimate Venetian ship and also the ultimate frigate too, I really do hope she gets picked, she has a pretty unique history and has the added benefit of being stunning to look at too.

Edited by Fluffy Fishy
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1 hour ago, Marques said:

They don't want to do a Spanish nothing special. They didn´t see nothing about Caribbean Sea at 18 thCentury. They don´t worry about Spanishs complaint...Really don´t worth to explain the lack of realism and the lack of historical view in this game. For me they can do Chinesse Ship and put in the middle of La Habana with a Australian Flag. Does no matter about it for the DEVs.  Be happy ....the game will never be realistic...that means Spanish History will be ignorated. 

And that is why the Dutch have more ships than the Spanish, because the spanish are 100% ignored while the dutch are flourishing with ships. Oh wait.

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2 hours ago, Reorx Redbeard said:

that corret, but Portugal and venice are not nations in the game, so why not consentrate on ships from nations that are in the game.  

Variety and fun.  I expect we're going to eventually have at least a couple ships for each (currently) playable nation in the game, and a couple more "exotic" ships will make things a bit more interesting. 

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Here are some nice paintings I posted on the Venetian Ship Thread over time from the Venetian painter Sandro Feruglio, who paints marine images both current and historical. Some of you may have seen them before but I always love to look at them myself. Its such a shame they are one off paintings, I would personally love a print of each of these for myself, mainly because I can't really justify commissioning to do one for me as much as I would like to.

11229838_536746589808456_314514419870855

This Picture shows some nice examples of ships you could have in the game. From left to right the ships are Eolo (Leon Trionfante class 1785), Distruzion (1771 Bombard Vessel roughly based on a design from 1750s Deptford), Vittoria 2 (Leon Trionfante class 1785), Esploratore (A Galliot) and Fama. This shows the bombardment of the Island of Sfax as part of the Venetian Barbary/Tunisian war. I really like the floating gun platforms, I made a post asking if anyone knew why a gun platform like this would be used in offensive action.

I am a huge fan of the Venetian naval paint scheme and in addition to hopefully seeing a Venetian ship make it into the game I would love to see the possibility for the paint scheme to be included too, its personally my favourite of any examples of colour schemes used by navies, I'm also fond of the English yellow and black and Swedish blue and brown but the combination used in Venice just seems so special to me, then again its probably to be expected from a city famous for its aesthetics.

A couple of others I also like are:

San Carlo Borromeo:

11794163_500278343455281_386097013970290

Cavalier Angelo (a 40 gun transport frigate):

IMG_1006-1.jpg

Fama:

IMG_44381.jpg

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59 minutes ago, Mrgoldstein said:

Oh wait what is that tiny little ship you have called? Santisima?

Atleast you have one vs the dutch zero

7 provincieen please...

Or ine of the heavy dutch east indiamans? They had 58 gunners for example..would be intresting one more heavily armed trader?

 

what u think of 70 guns?

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8 hours ago, Fluffy Fishy said:

Here are some nice paintings I posted on the Venetian Ship Thread over time from the Venetian painter Sandro Feruglio, who paints marine images both current and historical. Some of you may have seen them before but I always love to look at them myself. Its such a shame they are one off paintings, I would personally love a print of each of these for myself, mainly because I can't really justify commissioning to do one for me as much as I would like to.

11229838_536746589808456_314514419870855

This Picture shows some nice examples of ships you could have in the game. From left to right the ships are Eolo (Leon Trionfante class 1785), Distruzion (1771 Bombard Vessel roughly based on a design from 1750s Deptford), Vittoria 2 (Leon Trionfante class 1785), Esploratore (A Galliot) and Fama. This shows the bombardment of the Island of Sfax as part of the Venetian Barbary/Tunisian war. I really like the floating gun platforms, I made a post asking if anyone knew why a gun platform like this would be used in offensive action.

I am a huge fan of the Venetian naval paint scheme and in addition to hopefully seeing a Venetian ship make it into the game I would love to see the possibility for the paint scheme to be included too, its personally my favourite of any examples of colour schemes used by navies, I'm also fond of the English yellow and black and Swedish blue and brown but the combination used in Venice just seems so special to me, then again its probably to be expected from a city famous for its aesthetics.

A couple of others I also like are:

San Carlo Borromeo:

11794163_500278343455281_386097013970290

Cavalier Angelo (a 40 gun transport frigate):

IMG_1006-1.jpg

Fama:

IMG_44381.jpg

 

And there he goes with the Venetians :P, but they too had a very interesting thought about ships I have to say. Not really mentioned in the history books that the Venetian Navy had a big part of stopping the Ottoman influence via Italy 

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