Battle Join circles in land

[John Sheppard]

Hi guys

So he's the story .. 3 of us were in salamanca chasing a bunch of pirates  2 shallow ships and a pirate frig .. we had a rattle endy and rat frig .. the rattle was just ahead of us in visual range chasing the 3 pirate ships .. we started from the port and they went towards the shallow channel to congrios .. the pirate frigate took a right-hand turn behind the island in the very narro passage south so we followed .. as the rattlesnake got close it got tagged which we were ok with coz we were right behind to provite backup so we told him to go in coz it would take us 15 seconds to join the battle..

so battle satarted we click on the crossed swords and we see that both join circles are IN LAND  the pirate one was in the middle of the island and the GB one was in the land north of amber so needles to say we couldn't join the battle and the rattlesnkae was soundly defeated

as this is a bug and shouldn't happen could you somehow add some criteria to where the join circles appear?

and could the player in question hope for a replacement for his quite expensive rattlesnkae (had all the speed mods on it) as he lost it only due to the bug and would otherwise not lose it?

you can see that the GB join circle is lost under the mountains on the far left (i took a picture to that directrion to show that it isn't even vissible (it was barely visible when we were at distance) and i even tried to bump into land hoping to force myself close enough that i could join with no success

 

[Demsity]

Really sucks

[John Sheppard]

yeah i've been told it's a common issue specially at KPR and that sometimes it's being exploited

[Slim McSauce]

Its a feature, not intended but a feature nontheless.

[William Death]

It is a feature/tactic, not a bug. I always try to make my tags have the join circles spawn in a beneficial area to me. Sometimes it works, sometimes I have no choice in the matter.

If I can, I try to put the enemy circle on land/in shallows so that my target can't get reinforcements. Another tactic when further out to sea is to put their join circle far upwind so that any enemy ships that were chasing behind me have to run upwind slowly in OW, either causing them to not be able to join at all; or, at the very least, give me a decent amount of time to get my sails hoisted and build up some speed running away (assuming I did a defensive/counter tag). I've even used the join circles to put the spawn point for friendlies ahead of a fleeing target (when you tag an Endymion with a Surprise, his only choice of escape is downwind, so if I put my friendly circle downwind and I have people join, they will spawn ahead of the fleeing Endymion, setting up a perfect "gank" to get the Endy).

Learn how to make proper tags and you will quickly see that join circle placement is a good tactic for the OW PvPer to learn.

[Cecil Selous]

39 minutes ago, Willis PVP2 said:

It is a feature/tactic, not a bug. I always try to make my tags have the join circles spawn in a beneficial area to me. Sometimes it works, sometimes I have no choice in the matter.

No, it's a mechanic that is somehow impossible to fix for whatever reason. 

Edited August 27, 2017 by Cecil Selous

[victor]

5 hours ago, Slim Jimmerson said:

Its a feature, not intended but a feature nontheless.

It's not a feature, since the reinforcement circle has - in the game - a precise purpose (enabling players to enter in the battle for one or the othere side for a certain time) that is negated by that "feature".

therefore it's a glitch that Devs are not willing/able to fix.

As it happens for the ships still sailing across land and as it happens for that famous upgrade that caused crashes in the game.

[Skully]

You can read a previous discussion in http://forum.game-labs.net/topic/22274-roe-land-circle/

[seanjo]

Maybe it's to take all the AI sailing through land into account!

 

[Guest]

You can sort of rig where the circle goes so sometimes people intentionally try to get it onto the land. It's pretty dumb even though I've done it too. Got to remain competitive.

[The Wren]

7 hours ago, Willis PVP2 said:

It is a feature/tactic, not a bug. I always try to make my tags have the join circles spawn in a beneficial area to me. Sometimes it works, sometimes I have no choice in the matter.

If I can, I try to put the enemy circle on land/in shallows so that my target can't get reinforcements. Another tactic when further out to sea is to put their join circle far upwind so that any enemy ships that were chasing behind me have to run upwind slowly in OW, either causing them to not be able to join at all; or, at the very least, give me a decent amount of time to get my sails hoisted and build up some speed running away (assuming I did a defensive/counter tag). I've even used the join circles to put the spawn point for friendlies ahead of a fleeing target (when you tag an Endymion with a Surprise, his only choice of escape is downwind, so if I put my friendly circle downwind and I have people join, they will spawn ahead of the fleeing Endymion, setting up a perfect "gank" to get the Endy).

Learn how to make proper tags and you will quickly see that join circle placement is a good tactic for the OW PvPer to learn.

Hey Willis, I'm always learning from your posts!

Maybe I'm not experienced enough or just have poor observational skills, but how do you determine where the join circles are going to appear? Do they always appear North and south or East and West? Or is it determined by the heading of the tagging ship?

[William Death]

1 hour ago, The Wren said:

Or is it determined by the heading of the tagging ship?

Bingo!

Its all in how your ship is positioned relative to the enemy ship, as well as your heading. I had it explained to me by another PvPer one day, and I still didn't understand it completely... However, the best way I can think of to learn it is to make a tag (an AI trader works well, since it will escape on its own and you can repeat the tag a few more times pretty quickly) and have someone outside the battle screenshot it as you do the tag. There is usually about a 5-10 second delay where you can see the battle cross swords, the ships that were pulled in, and the join circles all at the same time. Have someone with the free camera flying about ready to capture a screenshot at that time. Do the process a few times, varying your tags, and you'll get a feel for the approximate location of the join circles. Also when I'm hunting in a group, I try to ask clan mates who are outside the battle when I tag something if the join circle was decent or not.

I wish I could explain it in a way that makes more sense, but every way I can think of still sounds pretty confusing...sometimes the friendly  join circle will be behind you if you tag a ship a certain way, sometimes it will be beside you, I think I've even seen them spawn ahead of you (although that takes some dancing by both parties inside the pull circle). Of course, the enemy join circle is always on the opposite side of the crossed swords as the friendly circle.

That is probably all about as clear as mud...but maybe it helps you a little bit...or it might confuse you more. Honestly, after reading it, I'm not sure if it makes sense at all LOL.

8 hours ago, Cecil Selous said:

No, it's a mechanic that is somehow impossible to fix for whatever reason. 

It doesn't need a fix IMO: it is a game mechanic that has distinct advantages and disadvantages for every player at some time or another. I don't think that it is a broken mechanic if I can trick someone into letting me tag them against a beach, thus ruining their join circles: they shouldn't have been hugging the coast like a landlubber. AAARRRGGGHHH!    

Historically, of course, any passing ship could stumble across that battle and begin fighting (assuming you are not in 7th rates fighting amidst the shoals), but that brings us back to the problems associated with instanced battles and compressed OW with increased speed. Any "solution" to those problems is going to have drawbacks. As it is, the join circle placement having the ability to spawn on land is a problem at times, and a help at times.

I link again the topic that @Skully referenced earlier, specifically this post by @admin regarding using land as a tactic to engage the enemy. Make sure to note what admin suggest about engaging near land: basically, don't do it if you are not confident in your abilities to get a decent tag--to engage blindly near the beach is risky.

 

[Teutonic]

23 hours ago, Slim Jimmerson said:

Its a feature, not intended but a feature nontheless.

it's an awful "feature" in my opinion if we can even call it that. afaik, and others can correct me, the admin stated that it was not intended and they did try multiple ways to fix it but did not come to a satisfactory conclusion except one that would mean taking land out of instance battles.

Since most people here on the forums would prefer to keep land within the battle, we are left with something that the Admin's did not intend to happen, and that us as players abuse or hate.

Edited August 28, 2017 by Teutonic

[Skully]

6 minutes ago, Teutonic said:

Since most people here on the forums would prefer to keep land within the battle, we are left with something that the Admin's did not intend to happen, and that us players abuse or hate.

You forget the part that states, players like to abuse (but not be abused ).

[The Wren]

3 hours ago, Skully said:

You forget the part that states, players like to abuse (but not be abused ).

I wouldn't go so far as to call it an abuse.

The pirates who were being chased lured an over confident foe into a trap and sprung it. (Classic move)

Instead of getting all twisted about it, it should be used as a learning experience. (Mature move)

I just learned something about how the circles are generated and so now has everyone else.

I tip my hat to the gamers, be they Rat or Nat, who took the time to observe this and figure it out.