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Forthcoming patch final discussion.

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10 minutes ago, Graf Bernadotte said:

That strong nations don't fight each other right now has its reason in the broken RvR mechanic. Even if you win a portbattle losses on ships cannot be replaced by the victory marks you get. You have to farm combat marks to subsidize your RvR pleasure. Second reason is that even the biggest nation struggle right now to get enough player to fill a PB fleet.

Still, i feel players/clans should not get power over the taxation, the rewards should be Paints and other shiny things.

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@admin

I'm concerned what a clan controlled tax rate will do to a new player who is using what little gold they have to set up a base of operations. There is a possibility that a steep increase in tax will essentially cripple their base of operations. For a new player this leaves their financial security in jeopardy as investment vs. return is dicey at the early stages. Particularly a problem if inflation becomes an issue and late game players have millions versus the new player with a Cutter and a dream. Spending coin to open up another port may be beyond their costs so their options would be: 

1. Go back to PvE missions to get more coin to open another base of operations elsewhere and hope the same thing doesn't happen (fool me once..)

2. Wait it out and hope for a flip (which means either not logging in or logging in just to check the status and logging out)

3. Try and join that large clan (if you can't beat them join them..) which just means that everyone of one nation is part of one or two mega clans and the whole purpose is nullified anyways

4. Quit

It's an interesting concept but I'm not sure from the perspective of a new player it is the best idea. A single tax rate for everyone regardless of income level doesn't work in real life and it can't work in game either. A 15% tax may be nothing to a Veteran Player with their piles of gold but to a new player that could be crippling and slow their growth considerably.

There have been many concerns in the pages prior to this regarding new player attraction and retention and I feel like there is still a bit too much focus on the later stage of player involvement - pandering to the veterans as it were. While vets are certainly going to need pandering to, it is the early stages of player involvement that need the most work at this point. 

Edited by Bjerg Bjergsson
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I allso sugested earlier a dynamic Admirality Mission Content that constantly keeps at war the larger clans. So there will be no room for friendly exchanges.

 

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Just now, AxIslander said:

I allso sugested earlier a dynamic Admirality Mission Content that constantly keeps at war the larger clans. So there will be no room for friendly exchanges.

 

I think RVR missions are a good way to implement this. Instead of freely picking the next port to attack, you have to fight on a front no matter who is on that front. No jumpinmg from one side of the map to the other. This will force neighboring countries to be at constant war

Edited by Slim Jimmerson
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On 8/22/2017 at 7:17 AM, Peter Goldman said:

they are scared even more and won't risk.

The central problem here is that they have a choice -- they "won't risk" PvP because there are more rewarding paths that are also less risk.

People grind missions in safe spots because missions are the #1 most reliable source of XP and cash and they are also safer.

Ultimately this is why we must take away the player's choice in the matter. They must risk PvP if they want to advance.

I still have yet to talk to a veteran captain who admits they quit because they ran out of ships. Cost and durability has never been a real issue. The fear of loss is somewhat a matter of ego (which is perfectly legitimate in a small community) but mainly it's a matter of avoiding risk because the game rewards us for hiding.
 

In my opinion, the only type of missions should be these new "hostility missions" that put you outside enemy ports.

Edited by Slamz
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2 hours ago, Bjerg Bjergsson said:

 

I'm concerned what a clan controlled tax rate will do to a new player who is using what little gold they have to set up a base of operations. There is a possibility that a steep increase in tax will essentially cripple their base of operations. For a new player this leaves their financial security in jeopardy as investment vs. return is dicey at the early stages. Particularly a problem if inflation becomes an issue and late game players have millions versus the new player with a Cutter and a dream.

I don't think tax rate is going to be much of an issue. I'm willing to bet there's not going to be too much wiggle room on it. We'd be lucky to see 5%-15%. In one of the lines admin said the maintenance on the port will be affected by the tax rate. Not sure what that will mean. but I'm pretty sure these ports will turn into a big cash sink. If your nation has only one or two powerhouse RvR clans just remember that every dollar spent in their ports helps those guys get your nation more ports. I'm still unsure of how this will work. Originally they were talking about clans being in control of capitals, but it doesn't seem that way in these notes. Seems like you're going to have a set number of ports that are unconquerable and then everything else will start as a neutral port. Point is that it's not to much cash in taxes and you'll probably want to support your RvR squads as it gets pretty expensive for them to get your nation more ports.

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7 minutes ago, Duncan McFail said:

Point is that it's not to much cash in taxes and you'll probably want to support your RvR squads as it gets pretty expensive for them to get your nation more ports.

It's another attempt to make the game perpetual, so you can no longer grow to the extend of one-porting another unconquerable zone.

You fight an exponential uphill battle until you finally realize you are fighting a mechanic, not a player base.

Poof, empty server again.

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10 minutes ago, Slamz said:

Ultimately this is why we must take away the player's choice in the matter. They must risk PvP if they want to advance.

Yes, and you will end up with a game played by 75 players. Maybe some of the 'enlisted-by-force' will join you. Nevertheless the conception of players being dumb sheep that just need to be herded around by increasingly limiting their compound in certain ways shows a certain kind of philosophy towards game making. Same like training dogs, some will say you need to punish them. I'd say raise the rewards for going out of the compound (gold, xp, things to discover, places to visit, things to do; story content) and you will have happy sheep that roam the open world.

I still don't see the benefit of many centers of commerce that are being taxed. In my game play all I really need right now is the capital. Because outside of it I don't find cannons, repairs, upgrades, skill books, etc (given that I play for France, I am pretty much squashed into one corner of the Caribbean anyways). And they are scarce at the capital with the server population as is, try finding any upgrade on the open market ...

Now if you have many centers that may be of service to the players, but it will be an incredible money-losing-business for most clans, unless you have a steep rise in the players base (you may call them consumers, if clans become city owning enterprises). Trade mechanics will become an abysmal nightmare to adjust with so many levels of complexity.

 

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3 hours ago, Quineloe said:

Constant shouting at each other and childish insults in nation chat do not constitute for a proper civil war.

 

You prove you don't know what you are talking about.  More than words were exchanged.

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31 minutes ago, Jean de la Rochelle said:

 Nevertheless the conception of players being dumb sheep that just need to be herded around by increasingly limiting their compound in certain ways shows a certain kind of philosophy towards game making.

Yeah -- one that works.

Almost every game herds players around in ways meant to highlight the main aspects of the game. Football has boundaries. You cannot take the ball with you to the bar and still claim to be playing the game. The game herds you onto the field where all of the other players must also be.

"Sandbox gaming" has always been a very tricky beast precisely because it does not herd the players and therefore gives them a lot of rope to hang themselves with. They claim the game is not fun and they quit (see Steam reviews for NA) because the game didn't herd them into fun activities.

In conclusion, I assume players are dumb sheep because in all my years of gaming I have come to the belief that this is what most of them are. Let them hide in a corner until they hate the game, declare it's boring and quit and that is what a lot of them will do.

But I also think that if you have a fun game and herd your players correctly then you can establish a base of people who enjoy that style of herding and more will come. This has worked well in game design since the first caveman kicked the first rock across the first line.

 

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19 minutes ago, Slamz said:

In conclusion, I assume players are dumb sheep because in all my years of gaming I have come to the belief that this is what most of them are. Let them hide in a corner until they hate the game, declare it's boring and quit and that is what a lot of them will do.

But I also think that if you have a fun game and herd your players correctly then you can establish a base of people who enjoy that style of herding and more will come. This has worked well in game design since the first caveman kicked the first rock across the first line.

Herding them in a corner is only fun for some time.

On 7/5/2017 at 8:46 PM, Skully said:

That's only one option for such an alliance. You are forgetting the opposite option, find another ally to beat the Danes. :ph34r:

On 7/5/2017 at 10:29 PM, Slamz said:

In our specific case, the British Aussies should be fighting the Danish Chinese. Same time zone. Similar strength and numbers. They even share a border. AND they border with the Danes right at the spot where the Danes control the local White Oak supply. AND the Danes are allies with the Pirates who the Brits are fighting. So the Aussie Brits took up a non-aggression pact with the Danes. The one group they can fight. Right next door. With a white oak port.

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

It's f'n bizarre.

On 7/15/2017 at 3:37 PM, Skully said:

Once we can force @Jeheil to become French

Don't say I didn't warn you, but then you do have certain assumptions. :P

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... and therefore gives them a lot of rope to hang themselves with.

Haha, probably, yes. There is however not only one narrative of what works and what doesn't.

19 minutes ago, Slamz said:

They claim the game is not fun and they quit (see Steam reviews for NA) because the game didn't herd them into fun activities.

You can push and you can pull, yank them or shoo them softly. True, the reality is that you'll probably need both and herding it'll be anyways. Agreed.

At the moment most people seem to complain about the punishment. I partly concur, for me there are not enough rewards (and not enough story content).  So instead of making this game even more hardcore by only catering for clan players (who at some moments give the impression that they would just as easily play any other multiplayer game, as long as it fulfills their need to be in a clan) I would assume the right course of action would be to ease on the yank and offer more of the low tone voice for the broader masses. Because the way I see it, if that new system gets implemented, you need more steady population on the servers.

But let's see, maybe this update fixes the flaws the developers seem to have spotted with the RvR (which are not entirely re-traceable anymore by an outsider). I honestly hope so. Let's see if the sheep spot the wolves lair that is being laid out for them or if they are not smart enough after all (really sorry for dragging out this allegory to unbearable lengths ;)).

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2 hours ago, Prater said:

You prove you don't know what you are talking about.  More than words were exchanged.

Which ships got sunk? How many?

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9 minutes ago, Quineloe said:

Which ships got sunk? How many?

You'd have to ask the different pirate alliances who took part.  I'm sure Vicious has an exact count somewhere.

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8 hours ago, ShereKhan said:

Smuggler Flag could allow players to circumvent taxation.......at least for sales transaction in any port. Maybe only allow smugglers to be attacked by same nation clans that own the port that smugglers are trying to enter.

Are just make a good reputation system that if you have high enough reputation with said nation you get a tax cut to the mini allowed (5% should always be the min Nation tax, the rest should be the clans tax).

8 hours ago, AxIslander said:

RvR needs a centralized random mission maker, that constantly put the strongest clans at war  with eachother.

Type: The Admirality requires that u take that region! (within a certain timeframe)
then for the opposing clan same info but for "defence" within the same timeframe. I think that this with lord protector and taxation feels complicated.

As for rewards ...You need to ask: What do players like most?

according to me:

1. "paints" to make their ship diffrent/special from others
2. "uppgrades"
3."their name on the wall" (acknowledgment from other players)

Put this as prices and have us fight over this!
We tried resource scarcity, and we somehow managed but became unhappy in the process!
Fix the stupid player contracts(too low/high)thow!

This is  a Sandbox you shouldn't force nations to fight eath other.  That should be something they do on there own, but maybe some mechanic that penalize them for to much peace.   On PvP2 pre-patch GB/US the two largest nations with DUTCH was 70% of the server population.  GB/US hadn't had a port battle against each other since Aug last year till after 10.0 Patch.  That was almost a year that two largest nations didn't fight a single port battle.  Instead they had a carebear alliance and picked on the small nations while the Pirates player world police and protected the little nations and kicked there alliance all over the place out number.  PEACE DOESN'T WORK ON A GAME ABOUT ACTION AND WARS.   The allaince system keep small clans from fighting each other in GB and US which could of helped and the new system allows this so it's good. You don't want a big clan to come mess with your fight with another nation, don't have them on your friends list so they can't take up slots in a fight or what not.  I bet you find out more folks will get into fighting than sitting on there arse.

I do agree rewards need to be upped for certain things that get folks fighting.  Paints is the one thing every one loved and wants back in game.  Even if they area changing that system why can't we get them now until that as rewards for PvP and RvR.  Hell I would give up one of my Weekly Victory Marks for a box full of paints right now....as long as it's 5-10 paints.

A proper reputation system would work better than leader boards, but we do have learderboards right now.  THough you get no rewards for the PvP leaderboard which you should get something like the paint chest each day for top PvPers.  Maybe do something for teh Top 25 RvR players to, but I would pay them out something like once a week they get a paint chest.

8 hours ago, Quineloe said:

I'll have to repeat my question: If you capture a port as a clan, do you have to take that port with all responsibilities and maintenance for your clan or can you set it to your nation, but without your clan owning it?

If you have to keep the port and pay for it, do you expect the majority of the map to be white? because at 500k per day, our very active clan is not gonna hold a single port.

The clan with the most hostility points is the leading clan and will take owner ship of the port.  They can make it a national port so only there nation can use it or they can make it a Nuatral port so every one can use it and they set the tax.  IF the maintenance isn't paid it falls back to an unowned neutral state and any one can attack it and claim it fighting the AI.

500K was a place holder random number.  I dought that is how much it will be unless it's a high econ rare resource port.   Even than we had no problem upkeeping out ports on POTBS and we where a very small clan but RVR and beat the crap out of the Brits and held more land than they did.   We had low tax in important national ports and high defense/resources set up, but we got our money from the out side ports we didn't care about that was closer to the other nations and had set up high taxes for other nations.  Since in that game you set your tax rate for each nation so you can have it low for our nation and a friendly (French ) and than high for an enemy (brits)  we keep it in the middle for the pirates.

I'm hoping you can set the rate for each nation.

7 hours ago, Skully said:

Yes :D, still eagerly awaiting that Tribunal... :P:ph34r:

(sound of running feet)

... /o\

The funny thing is when you join it you get the flag of that players.  So a French with Contriban goods gets tagged by a Dan.  We would want to join the Dane, but we can't, we have to join the Pirate side.  When we join we have a French flag....lol

7 hours ago, Jean de la Rochelle said:

If you thought the occasional flame or shout out "we don't help other clans" on the national chat was bad, wait until this update goes live, sit back and enjoy the ultimate bitch fights (excuse my language) amongst the clans of your nation. Probably even the saltiest of clan players will sourly quit this game leaving us behind with an empty RvR arena. 

Please, add some story content to this game and simplify - simplify -simplify. 

It's human nation to see some but remember they have to take and control that port to keep it.  If you burn all your bridges you will find out you have very few friends.  You might even find out the enemy only attacks your ports. In the past we took all ports to hurt a nation cause of what one clan did.  Now all we have to do is attack that clans ports only and leave the others alone.  I think we will be seeing some smaller clans asking for this to help them gain power over a nation against some DOM clans that won't let them do other things than peace and sit in ports.

5 hours ago, AxIslander said:

Look at the way it stands now! strong nations do NOT fight eachother, they agree to excange a region for another. The same will happen with clans, they will not fight eachother. Strong organized clans, will take over regions and they will impose their will on the little people.

My opinion

But this allows the smaller nations to do some fight and smaller clans that don't want the peace can target the clans that are doing nothing but holding ports.  I'm going to be your going to see a lot of civil unrest in nations. I'm going to predict us Pirates on Global will be willing to take ports and make them Neutral for other nations that have beef with other clans.  Than again it's war and the strong should always  survive.  IF you don't like who controls a region of ports than go to the safe zones by the capital, they all tend to have all the basic resources that you need to play.   Than put contracts up for the goods you need and pay out the arse any way for them when you could get them cheaper from some one else port.

5 hours ago, Prater said:

Not sure what you are talking about.  There has been plenty of infighting and even a pirate civil war.  But then Vicious quit, sorry broke up, and it ended.

 

No content that is scheduled?  Just because you don't know of any yourself doesn't mean nothing is coming, and there is plenty of stuff that has been publicly announced.

Like the Pirates Civil War that happend the first tiem US tried to take West End from us.  Funny how they had none US alts in that clan and as soon as we went to war with them the whole nation went to war with them and those not doing shady stuff left and went to other clans, but the shady guys ran off to there US buddies and are still over there.  Sorry guys that what happens when a Pirate Republic votes on something and your caught working for the Enemy, we do a purge of every member until they leave or you do.  I know one of those I killed the night it started is now a strong  Clan Leader of another Pirate clan that we work with and he's the main raider of the US coast.  The last KOS vote we had my clan left the vote to all the smaller clans and it was 100% VOTED for the player to be put on a Nation wide KOS cause he was attacking lowbies, traders and giving Pirate info out in global.  I believe he's been warned by Admin about some other things to so he's been acting better, but he's still on that KOS list.  BLACK had zero influence on that and I even told them, "We will support the rest of the Republics vote, but I'm sure ya'll all ready know what our vote will be."   Which was KOS for our clan, but we wanted them to make it public and choise themselves.  You see folks that is how you run a nation.  No stupid congress or what not, you just do things and make votes on the fly.  We have never had a meeting of the clan leaders either.  We pop in each others TS/Discord and ask if it's cool to do this or that and than be on our way.  

2 hours ago, Slamz said:

In my opinion, the only type of missions should be these new "hostility missions" that put you outside enemy ports.

I can see keeping the low level missions up to Rank 5 as normal missions and this is the solo ones.    All group missions should be hostility missions.   Than seed enough low level ships groups around that if they want to fleet they can go sink those in the safe waters around capital regions.

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Even than we had no problem upkeeping out ports on POTBS and we where a very small clan but RVR and beat the crap out of the Brits and held more land than they did.

You mean when the game was four years old and everyone and their dog had duped billions some port maintenance didn't matter anymore?

500k is a placeholder number, but the way it was worded this was to be the minimum. If your 100 member clan (which is astronomical with todays player numbers) holds ten ports that don't produce taxes, that's 50k per player per day. No way we're paying that. Given production and manufacturing is excluded from taxes, no ports will generate taxes for their owners except for the captail - which is uncapturable and therefore  can't be held by a clan All the ship store trading is done in our capital. Very little material store trading happens in other ports, and there it's limited to repairs. Ships are built and cannons are forged in the capital, and that's where it's sold. Untaxed.

So yeah, I predict the entire map save a select few ports will be white with this patch. Because having your clan name painted on a port is not worth 500k a day.

 

500k is an absurd figure, similar to 500 gold per crew member used to be.

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3 hours ago, Duncan McFail said:

I don't think tax rate is going to be much of an issue. I'm willing to bet there's not going to be too much wiggle room on it. We'd be lucky to see 5%-15%. In one of the lines admin said the maintenance on the port will be affected by the tax rate. Not sure what that will mean. but I'm pretty sure these ports will turn into a big cash sink. If your nation has only one or two powerhouse RvR clans just remember that every dollar spent in their ports helps those guys get your nation more ports. I'm still unsure of how this will work. Originally they were talking about clans being in control of capitals, but it doesn't seem that way in these notes. Seems like you're going to have a set number of ports that are unconquerable and then everything else will start as a neutral port. Point is that it's not to much cash in taxes and you'll probably want to support your RvR squads as it gets pretty expensive for them to get your nation more ports.

It's not going to be much of an issue from the perspective of an accomplished Clan or a Rear Admiral. I'm trying to view things from the point of view of a new player (as I think we all need to start doing). 5-15% is a huge difference for someone who is counting their coins (as you do at an early stage in the game). It can be the difference between good profit and barely scrapping by. Between good returns for that 2 hour round trip or a total waste of time. 

Maintenance being tied to tax rate is equally disconcerting for the same reason. A new player saves up and builds a shipyard in a distant port. Maintenance by a Clan that the new player has no part in is left to go slack (perhaps they are focused elsewhere or they just fold up) and now the port is basically undefended when a hostile nation rolls in. New player loses shipyard and all the wealth and investment tied to it thanks to situations totally beyond their control. They are knocked back to whatever they had back in their protected home waters.  Hell I was nervous when I moved my assets to Belize! All my resources and wealth went into building a network in that region. If it was lost while I was on vacation or something I would have been back in a Cutter in KPR in no time! As it is now I'm a little worried what the wipe will entail as if it resets me back to zero.. well.. I don't know if I have much more in me. 

I want to add that I think there is some good Econ moves in the forthcoming patch. There is also a lot of vagaries which are worrying as well though. The RvR etc is not something I'm particularly worried about as I think there is a big gaping hole in content that comes before RvR for most players. (PvP yes, but much more as well)

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8 minutes ago, Bjerg Bjergsson said:

 Between good returns for that 2 hour round trip or a total waste of time.

correct me if I'm wrong, but you sell your stuff to capitals when you're trading, so you can't be taxed because capitals are uncapturable and therefore can't be held by clans.

Quote

New player loses shipyard and all the wealth and investment tied to it thanks to situations totally beyond their control.

And that's different compared to basing your entire economy in some distant port today.... how exactly? If you build a shipyard (which is so frivolously expensive now that new players don't do that anyways) outside your capital, you should by the point you can afford that realize all by yourself what a tremendous risk you're taking. A risk that has absolutely no payoff, because there simply is no point for a new player on his own to build ships in a distant location.


What exactly is it you gain from building ships in Belize as opposed to KPR? KPR has Fir and Oak, so two of the heaviest resources you don't even have to carry. Iron Ore, LV and Stone is just around the corner. Hemp is not far either. That covers almost all ship building resources.

 

Edited by Quineloe

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1 minute ago, Quineloe said:

correct me if I'm wrong, but you sell your stuff to capitals when you're trading, so you can't be taxed because capitals are uncapturable and therefore can't be held by clans.

 

 

And that's different compared to basing your entire economy in some distant port today.... how exactly? If you build a shipyard (which is so frivolously expensive now that new players don't do that anyways) outside your capital, you should by the point you can afford that realize all by yourself what a tremendous risk you're taking. A risk that has absolutely no payoff, because there simply is no point for a new player on his own to build ships in a distant location.

 

 

1. Round trip meant resource gathering to utilize buildings and crafting not necessarily trading. Agreed capitals are the primary hub of trading, no argument there!

2. As Admin said there will be a re-jigging of costs so as to make shipbuilding etc not as prohibitively expensive. I used shipyard as an example but any sort of crafting buildings or resource gathering would suffer the same fate in a Clan disused port.  Perhaps you are missing the point I'm trying to make regarding Clan ownership of ports, the taxation mechanic and maintenance. Tying the defense/maintenance/taxation of a port to any one Clan runs the risk of new players getting caught in the wake of that Clan's decisions. This can certainly motivate some players to get involved, but it can also put off many new players. 

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Taxes should be applied to the AI residents of the port city or region, not the players.  To swing favor in the direction of or away from the occupying clan so that it becomes easier or harder to hold it.  It only hurts players in the long run if they are directly taxed.  It doesn't hurt the clan if the taxes come from elsewhere.

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1 hour ago, Quineloe said:

 

 

You mean when the game was four years old and everyone and their dog had duped billions some port maintenance didn't matter anymore?

500k is a placeholder number, but the way it was worded this was to be the minimum. If your 100 member clan (which is astronomical with todays player numbers) holds ten ports that don't produce taxes, that's 50k per player per day. No way we're paying that. Given production and manufacturing is excluded from taxes, no ports will generate taxes for their owners except for the captail - which is uncapturable and therefore  can't be held by a clan All the ship store trading is done in our capital. Very little material store trading happens in other ports, and there it's limited to repairs. Ships are built and cannons are forged in the capital, and that's where it's sold. Untaxed.

So yeah, I predict the entire map save a select few ports will be white with this patch. Because having your clan name painted on a port is not worth 500k a day.

 

500k is an absurd figure, similar to 500 gold per crew member used to be.

well maybe a percentage, of let say 50 % of the daily tax income>  what must be paid to the government of the nation every day after maintenance

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

also, a nice PvE edition: perhaps some silver fleets who sail with huge amount of silver back to the homeland what  can later on the day be captured in some event (just simular like the storm event)

 

 

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2 hours ago, Red Dragon 13 said:

Forthcoming patch final discussion.

By admin, Monday at 06:20 PM in Developer news and announcements

 

Dear Admin, Dear Devs, do you have an estimated time for closing this final discussion? and an ETA for the forthcoming patch?

Thanks for the good work.

@admin I know an ETA is hard to give, but it would be nice to know if this going to be next week or next year or a few months from now so we can make some changes and plans.  Even if it means we shut down any RvR and just keep to PvP on OW.   That and a map of these new captured and noncaptured ports lay out would be nice too.  Than we can discussion that part of this too even if it's a project suggestion map and not the final one.

1 hour ago, Quineloe said:

You mean when the game was four years old and everyone and their dog had duped billions some port maintenance didn't matter anymore?

500k is a placeholder number, but the way it was worded this was to be the minimum. If your 100 member clan (which is astronomical with todays player numbers) holds ten ports that don't produce taxes, that's 50k per player per day. No way we're paying that. Given production and manufacturing is excluded from taxes, no ports will generate taxes for their owners except for the captail - which is uncapturable and therefore  can't be held by a clan All the ship store trading is done in our capital. Very little material store trading happens in other ports, and there it's limited to repairs. Ships are built and cannons are forged in the capital, and that's where it's sold. Untaxed.

So yeah, I predict the entire map save a select few ports will be white with this patch. Because having your clan name painted on a port is not worth 500k a day.

 

500k is an absurd figure, similar to 500 gold per crew member used to be.

4 years?  So you mean you played two years of it being F2P and was crap?  I won't count my time in beta, but it was only up for 2 years before they switched to F2P and went to crap about that time some Russians on the server (I played Roberts) told me hay come check out this new game and Beta test it with us.   That is how I got to WoT's.....than a few years back some Russians I know said come test out this new game in alpha you will like it.....and that is how I ended up here....any one seeing trend here for me and games like this?  

But back to the Tax.  Lets say a port brings in 5 Million a day, and yes I bet you some of them do of products exchanging hands.  Lets say the tax that the port takes no matter what is 5%.   which is 250K.  This goes straight to the port and never seen by the clan.  Though you make the maintenance 10% of the ports producing income.   So that will be 500K.....though the 5% port tax takes half of that the player never sees as it's paid for all ready.   If he wants to pay out of pocket he has to raise the tax from 5% the port min to 10% and he covers all tax's, but he gains no income.  If he raises it to 20% than he gains 5% income off all goods in that port.  Which isn't a bad tax rate.  Now maybe it's a rich Clan and they get plenty of income through other means and they want to help out new players.  THey instead set the tax rate to 0%, pay the 500K a day and go off the profits of goods they sale themselves with zero tax mark up.  Cause they now just turned there Neurtaly owned port into one of the best trade hubs in game.

49 minutes ago, Mrgoldstein said:

Where will all our assets be relocated too? The ships?

And the buildings we had in different towns? Will we get gold for them or mats?

You mean when patch drops.  If your in a port that turns neutral you prob get to keep your stuff there and well hope some one doesn't capture it.  When we get the map and ETA of the patch it would be smart to move you stuff to a nation owned port or a freetown or hope your port turns neutral and your nation/clan can capture it quick.

Though they prob going to do what they have done in past.  Wiped all buildings and gave us credit for them.  Move certain ports with others (flip locations of your good) or make the items redeemable and you have to reclaim them.

39 minutes ago, Jean Ribault said:

Taxes should be applied to the AI residents of the port city or region, not the players.  To swing favor in the direction of or away from the occupying clan so that it becomes easier or harder to hold it.  It only hurts players in the long run if they are directly taxed.  It doesn't hurt the clan if the taxes come from elsewhere.

See above, there should be a small percentage that allays goes to port and maintenance as a min.  5% is a good number that no matter what it's there to cover that.  Though the maintenance might be higher or even lower depending on the port and it's resources.   So you might be able to suck up the price and charge zero taxes at far away not important ports or you might have to raise taxes to 20% to cover the fees and still hardly break even for very high maintenance ports.

It's a bit harder to control now, but pre-patch we keep Mort Prices very low so that if you need to replace something it was cheap to do so. If you can get a new ship that means your back out there fighting.  The problem was Nats keep coming in and buying the real cheap goods and than going to sale them to there own nations for out standing prices or some idiot will buy the ship and repost them at National prices (that gave away the nation jumpers and alts real fast).   It got to a point we wouldn't sale anything in Mort, but we keep Kidds stocked up since that was pretty much our last stand region any way.   

So it's mainly going to depend of the players and how they want to treat ports. I'm all for helping your nation and keeping tax low on National Owned ports close to home.  While having high tax rates on frontier ports that you make Neutral so all can use.

Bermuda would be a prime example of a port I would claim and make neutral and jack the tax up high.  That way any nation can come and get goods out of it, but they are going to pay a price.  This cuts the alts popping in and getting a good deal too as they have to pay the tax too.  You should get enough profit that your clan can afford the high taxes themselves that port....or drop the tax for a day  buy up what you need and than put it back up to something high.

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Well what a set of sweeping changes.

I think and have read alot of the replies, that overall this looks well worth a try.

Clearly the current mechanic isn't working. So lets huzzah the fact that big changes were needed and these are indeed big changes.

I play with a Clan (as I have done in many MMO's) and as such making it a far more Clan based game is very attractive to me. If you are a solo player as long as you are not looking for RvR then this is perhaps acceptable, if not, then well you will need to find a like minded bunch tbh.

I look forward to better hostility mechanics and perhaps the return of 'timers' or some equivalent that could facilitate, at least in the short term a server merge, vital in alpha while our numbers are meagre and seem to play in cycles.

I am a little unclear as to how O/W will work and in general am a big fan of leaving missions open in general.

All in all this looks good enough to give a go. Which all evidence would suggest the current model no longer is :)

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10 hours ago, Skully said:

It's another attempt to make the game perpetual, so you can no longer grow to the extend of one-porting another unconquerable zone.

You fight an exponential uphill battle until you finally realize you are fighting a mechanic, not a player base.

Poof, empty server again.

7 hours ago, Quineloe said:

Because having your clan name painted on a port is not worth 500k a day.

The winning strategy for taxes has already been determined: a port is not worth even a penny unless you can defeat your opponent with the conquest of ports.

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