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Teutonic

[Serious] Server Health

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Ok, so we don't need Thunderdome then.  We need to schedule PB's and schedule PB flip attempts.  We should know that the Pirates will be flipping Trinidad in the SE corner of the Map on Thursday at 8pm Eastern to make sure we are online and not already up at La Mona or Mortimer and therefore a 3+ hour sail away to come down and counter grind / fleet intercept a PB that we have no intention of showing up for regardless.

You are missing the point completely.  WE ARE PLAYING DIFFERENT GAMES.  We just happen to be logging into the same server to do it.

 

 

 

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After having some questions of mine answered both in the open and in private, I've got more of a picture with which to continue to give my two coppers on the state of the game, server population, and all that jazz. 

Boils down to most of us, despite what our preferred PvP activity is, wanting a more meaningful and entertaining PvP game that brings both the OW centric and RvR centric groups together more often than they are now. 

I think frustration with the state of the game is producing a lot of salt, my own included. 

 

 

Edited by Rhodry Heidenrich
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14 hours ago, Rhodry Heidenrich said:

It's too bad it couldn't have remained without the poo flinging, so shame on the guilty parties for that. 

I think the poo flinging serves a good purpose, though: it's attacking the current culture of the community. And that's good because it's the current culture that is about 90% of the problem.

EVE always had a culture of "just go fight". Grab your T1 frigate with no rigs and basic gear and just go hunt. Die, get another one, go hunt more. Get friends in T1 frigates and go hunt in packs. If you can afford better, use better but, the culture says, don't sit there and complain about the cost of T2 battleships and the cost of rigs and the cost of improved weapons when you can just go hunting in T1 frigates and actually get kills.

NA should have that same culture. It actually works better here, I think. The gap between a Snow and a Santissima is a whole lot narrower than between a T1 Frigate and a Titan or something like that.

If EVE was populated by this crop of NA players, it would fail, not because it's a bad game that's "too much grind" but because there's a wrong-headed culture telling people to play in ways that are fairly ridiculous. ("I can't PvP! I can't afford my 3rd Bermuda Victory and I only have 4 slots unlocked on it and I'm missing one book and I can't find a Copper Plating for it! I'm helpless out there!" Meanwhile there are people getting kills in a storebought Renom with 2 slots.)

14 hours ago, Duncan McFail said:

As for the point of this topic if you can't see the hidden agenda then I need to get you glasses for Christmas.

Wow, you still don't get it.

I still have 2 forged papers.

Think. Think real hard about why I have not used them.

I'll save you the trouble: because it does not matter what team you are on or what ports you own. I could switch to Pirate right now. Or Dane. I don't do it because I don't need to. I can live in La Navasse or La Tortue or La Mona just fine. WO, who has sank more pirates than any other clan, has been living in free ports since the fall of Haiti. The amount of trouble of moving my guild warehouse is not worth the minuscule improvement in gameplay I would experience by moving to some other team.

You're turning into that guy who screams about chem-trails and the government poisoning our water. Not everything is a conspiracy. Teutonic just wants PvP fights to be something that's easier to find.

Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar, Duncan.

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1 hour ago, Tenet said:

The very last one in Trinidad was at ~21:00 EST, 01:00 Server Time, you had 25 ships online in the area, we had far less, you still didn't show up and spent the evening trash talking in Global chat. You could have easily attacked BLACK in that port battle and had much more BR and rated ships.  

That "one port you flipped" was also at a perfect time for a fight, and instead you pussied out again with no excuse. No one tried to screen you. You can say you were scared to face a full fleet, that is fine, but stop lying about basic facts.

 

Not sure what you're talking about here.  The whole point of staging the port battle at Roseau was to generate an OW battle there.  From what I've heard few enemies showed up.  

 

45 minutes ago, Tenet said:

False - Pirates and Danes have to rely on AI-Fleets if you don't show up to the OW Defense. 

 

 

You seem to have missed the memo that France is not defending regions.  Have fun grinding the AI around ports you'll never bother sailing to again.  Been there, done that.  zzzzzzzzz  The AI grinding and port flipping is broken.

 

Edited by Barbancourt (rownd)
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1 hour ago, Tenet said:

DEVELOPERS DECIDED TO MAKE THE GAME INTO A JOB.

Did they?

Or did you?

It's not a job to go PvP in 5th rates or even 4th rates. Throw in a Bellona now and then. Still not a job.

What are you doing wrong that you feel like it's a job, I wonder? Grinding 5 slots? You don't need them. Farming up the perfect permanent slots? You don't need those either. Farming for that final book you need for the Gunnery Encyclopedia or something like that? Still not needed. Full fleet of 1st rates? Just ignore the line ship ports.

The only one turning this into a job is you.
 

Also, why did you flip Trinidad for 30 minutes after we flipped Dominica? You had to know we couldn't do both at the same time. Right after Dominica we had the fleet sailing down and you guys had already left.

But you also have to know that France does not have -- or care to have -- a full fleet of 25 first rates. We will never fight you in your slow boat 1st rate battles. We have no reason to and we don't find it fun. That's the "job" you created and we ignored.

Developers didn't do that to you. You chose it.

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5 minutes ago, Slamz said:

Developers didn't do that to you. You chose it.

Developers decide what people do by the risk vs. reward they set up.

Developers made chasing in OW PvP too boring and futile (Defensive AI tags + Super Speed/Invis from AI tags is a bad combo).

People choose to gank in OW using fake battles - every side in this conflict does it, even the mods get dragged into it against their will. 

Developers made RvR the only battle where win/lose depends on staying in a fixed position and fighting. 

I don't choose RvR more than OW PvP on a whim, I am pushed into it by game mechanics. 

You wouldn't understand. You want to defend Developers for supporting your gank style play. 

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20 minutes ago, Tenet said:

Developers made RvR the only battle where win/lose depends on staying in a fixed position and fighting. 

 

 

Why aren't you mobile and flexible?

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20 minutes ago, Tenet said:

You wouldn't understand. You want to defend Developers for supporting your gank style play. 

Open world PvP is always gank style gameplay.

The argument you're trying to have is a copy of arguments from WOW, WAR, AOC, ESO, GW2, EVE and literally every other game that offers any sort of open world PvP where fights can be and frequently are unfair.

You might as well complain that fights are sometimes unfair in RUST.

It's practically the point of the genre.

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I'm not complaining that they are unfair - I'm complaining that you can defensive tag an AI fleet and literally disappear in front of me by magic and emerge with invisibility from that non-battle. 

This incentivizes the attackers to gank and provides no incentive for patrols or defending. So the best players stay mostly safe, or get baited and ganked. The majority of the victims are the less organized players, the ones most vulnerable and likely to quit. 

We're both driven to hunt the worst players of each Nation, and drive them out of the game. 

The Predators cannot survive without their prey. 

We do not control such incentives and mechanics - Developers control them directly.

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6 hours ago, Christendom said:

Global's fine.  I certainly don't miss anti-US bias that you always brought to the table.  Always were a bad hombre.

I heard most of your PBs are cancelled due to a lack of players, kinda sucks.  We stopped doing them over here and just pvp most of the evenings, it's more fun.

Appreciate you checking in on a serious thread like this to throw our your bitter salt, I see not much has changed with you. last I heard you were barely playing.  Good to know you're still alive and kicking, we'll see you soon! 

Think only one was thus far, but to be honest RvR is taking a sharp downturn now that the Danes (orchestrators) + Brits + Spanish decided to just trade ports weekly on the other side of the map for easy victory marks, against all norms of actual conquest and despite the devs' attempts to prevent port trading.

So yeah, he's a bit full of it.

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37 minutes ago, Barbancourt (rownd) said:

 

Why aren't you mobile and flexible?

Like a buccaneer ? Like a filibustier ? Maybe a privateer or a sea dog ? Or like a pirate "at war with the world" ? 

"120 guns roaring hell from the mightiest pirate ship ever built in a shanty town overlooked by a derelict fort..."

You surely jest sir :)

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46 minutes ago, Barbancourt (rownd) said:

Why aren't you mobile and flexible?

Why do you run back into port and come out in heavier ships? 

We can keep asking silly questions all day. The server health debate has been derailed and I have started it in a more fitting place.

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1 hour ago, Tenet said:

Developers decide what people do by the risk vs. reward they set up.

Developers made chasing in OW PvP too boring and futile (Defensive AI tags + Super Speed/Invis from AI tags is a bad combo).

People choose to gank in OW using fake battles - every side in this conflict does it, even the mods get dragged into it against their will. 

Developers made RvR the only battle where win/lose depends on staying in a fixed position and fighting. 

I don't choose RvR more than OW PvP on a whim, I am pushed into it by game mechanics. 

You wouldn't understand. You want to defend Developers for supporting your gank style play. 

None of this is actually the way it works.

Players decide what they are willing to risk for the rewards.  Your clan has decided to risk nothing until its got 5 slots and top mods in any ship it will compete in. That is your choice to minimize your risks for the rewards offered.

Some people do chose to gank in OW fake battles. This , again, is a player choice. A poor player choice. Purge has not used this tactic nor is there ever a reason too. But its still a player choice. 

RvR is not the only battle where win/lose depends on staying in a fixed position and fighting. Any battle can be this way. Running away is a player choice. Often it can also be a bad choice. The last three times my Indiamen and trader fleet was jumped on the OW I turned and fought and sunk the enemy 2 out of 3. On the third he withdrew.  Standing and fighting or running its all still player choice.'

Whether you choose RvR over OW after heavy deliberation or a whim it is still your choice. Obviously most of the rest of the server has decided OW over RvR. For most its probably because no one else wants to bother putting in 5 slots of grinding on first rates to fight the one style of battle you tailor made your clan to perform.  Why would they follow you into that grinding nightmare for just one aspect battle of the game?

Edited by Bach

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1 hour ago, Tenet said:

I don't choose RvR more than OW PvP on a whim, I am pushed into it by game mechanics. 

Again like others said above was a player decision not the developers. France has been doing nothing but OW pvp since the reset. All you need for that is your base county that can't be taken. If France could do it the Pirates could as well. 

Either you are over exaggerating or you just simply don't understand the diversity of the game mechanics that exist in NA. 

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15 minutes ago, Tenet said:

We do not control such incentives and mechanics - Developers control them directly.

There are definitely still mechanic fixes we could think about. The current layout of battle timers makes zero sense, for instance.

We really need WYSIWYG battle joining. If you're invisible, in a battle or in a port when the tag timer starts, you're not getting in.

And "defensive tags" need to go away. Every fight should start from convenient medium cannon range.

 

Certainly a lot of damage has been done to PvP by people exploiting the current mechanics -- maybe not "exploit" as in a bug, but "exploit" as in taking advantage of clear holes in the game design to purposefully ruin the experience of other players. (And personally I find it to be senseless. I have never purposefully engaged in trickery to get a kill -- or at least, nothing more advanced than "hide behind this island" or "spread out and push him into a better tagger". In those cases, we getcha, but you had a chance to see it coming and potentially avoid it.)

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YES Ban us All...BLACK is the reason....you all blamed us back when we focused more on PvP and we would RvR when needed, Now we are to blame since we found our own clan balance for RvR and PvP and taking ports......yep we are to blame.

Not you NAT dipshits whom a few of you ....not mentioning King of Freakin Clowns name...whom went off like a 2 year old (raciest bullshit) on global because some other nation attacked his self proclaimed region...which by the way KoC you didnt get the memo??? u are no longer allowed to be involved in any adult conversations till u grow up some...

or what about the so called backstabbing NATs do their own players by getting pissed and going to another nation to have fun.....but you know its their money so get a life bitches.

Get what I am saying here people???...No one is innocent...everyone of you so called mouthpieces for your nation is guilty of some bullshit that caused someone to leave or caused things to go toxic, so those of you who think you know...well get clean yourself brother.

 

Bottom line is its the mechanics pure and simple, you piss poor excuses for adults need to take your blinders off and realize that, and until greater feed back both to the Devs and from the Devs is given, we will continue to have this issue.

Merge servers??? lol seriously ??? yeah lets ask the Devs to do another bandaid fix...open your eyes gents and see the bigger picture.

 

DAM!!! now I am pissed off and need a glass of wine to soothe my nerves :P

Edited by Mike the Mongel
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2 minutes ago, Mike the Mongel said:

YES Ban us All...BLACK is the reason....you all blamed us back when we focused more on PvP and we would RvR when needed, Now we are to blame since we found our own clan balance for RvR and PvP and taking ports......yep we are to blame.

Not you NAT dipshits whom a few of you ....not mentioning King of Freakin Clowns name...whom went off like a 2 year old (raciest bullshit) on global because some other nation attacked his self proclaimed region...which by the way KoC you didnt get the memo??? u are no longer allowed to be involved in any adult conversations till u grow up some...or the backstabbing NATs do their own players by getting pissed and going to another nation to have fun.....but you know its their money so get a life bitches.

Get what I am saying here people???...No one is innocent...everyone of you so called mouthpieces for your nation is guilty of some bullshit that caused someone to leave or caused things to go toxic, so those of you who think you know...well get clean yourself brother.

 

Bottom line is its the mechanics pure and simple, you piss poor excuses for adults need to put your blinders on and realize that, and until greater feed back both to the Devs and from the Devs is given, we will continue to have this issue.

Merge servers??? lol seriously ??? yeah lets ask the Devs to do another bandaid fix...open your eyes gents and see the bigger picture.

 

DAM!!! now I am pissed off and need a glass of wine to soothe my nerves :P

Ohhhhh the Drama!  Someone get this man an OSCAR.   BLACK isn't the victim. There has never been a plan to "get BLACK".  All that "but this happened last year crap" is irrelevant.  Many of us were not even playing last year on this server if even in the game then.   Many of us piss poor excuses for adults don't have any problem with the bulk of the mechanics and just because some mechanics are exploitable doesn't mean we must use them.  It doesn't mean you have to use them either.  I think as a clan you guys spend so much time assuming the worst of everything that you make your own game experience tainted towards the bad.  Lighten up and share some of that wine.  I prefer a Hungarian oak aged California Cab.

We're here talking bout this because the population has dropped off.  It just dropped off because players got bored or otherwise weren't having the fun they did the first week when they were learning the new game.  Like @Tenet mentioned with EVE, if they have fun they would still be playing.  Its not anyone fault. They made that choice and this game certainly isn't going to be for most gamers.

So what is it that makes this game fun for you? And if you say me grinding out a first rate to 5 slots so we can RvR I think you know where that's going. :)

 

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8 minutes ago, Bach said:

Ohhhhh the Drama!  Someone get this man an OSCAR.   BLACK isn't the victim. There has never been a plan to "get BLACK".  All that "but this happened last year crap" is irrelevant.  Many of us were not even playing last year on this server if even in the game then.   Many of us piss poor excuses for adults don't have any problem with the bulk of the mechanics and just because some mechanics are exploitable doesn't mean we must use them.  It doesn't mean you have to use them either.  I think as a clan you guys spend so much time assuming the worst of everything that you make your own game experience tainted towards the bad.  Lighten up and share some of that wine.  I prefer a Hungarian oak aged California Cab.

We're here talking bout this because the population has dropped off.  It just dropped off because players got bored or otherwise weren't having the fun they did the first week when they were learning the new game.  Like @Tenet mentioned with EVE, if they have fun they would still be playing.  Its not anyone fault. They made that choice and this game certainly isn't going to be for most gamers.

So what is it that makes this game fun for you? And if you say me grinding out a first rate to 5 slots so we can RvR I think you know where that's going. :)

 

Soooo you accusing BLACK of exploiting mechanics ??? I am reading this right ???????  say what you mean there BACH don't hold back, don't dance around the bush .

I think we all know what is being said here . screw this

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52 minutes ago, Slamz said:

There are definitely still mechanic fixes we could think about. The current layout of battle timers makes zero sense, for instance.

We really need WYSIWYG battle joining. If you're invisible, in a battle or in a port when the tag timer starts, you're not getting in.

And "defensive tags" need to go away. Every fight should start from convenient medium cannon range.

I appreciate actually reading a French NA raider saying this and not the denials I heard in the other threads. 

Edited by Tenet

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4 hours ago, Barbancourt (rownd) said:

 

Not sure what you're talking about here.  The whole point of staging the port battle at Roseau was to generate an OW battle there.  From what I've heard few enemies showed up.  

 

 

You seem to have missed the memo that France is not defending regions.  Have fun grinding the AI around ports you'll never bother sailing to again.  Been there, done that.  zzzzzzzzz  The AI grinding and port flipping is broken.

 

Wait wasn't some one bitching about off time fighs staged by Danes'a dn Pirates.  UH isn't US prime time not Danes strong time?  If I heard correct they couldn't even fill half the port battle numbers so it was like 12 vs 25, but that is what I heard.  All the while Pirates hit the server maintiance.  Stopped and than picked back up that eve to put the port battle in US prime time cause folks where bitching about the off US prime times.  I'll be honest the reason we been flipping some of the ports off prime time is cause the grind is so stupid.  We use to be able to flip a port in 1 1/2 hours pre-patch by hitting mega fleets.  Now it takes us around 2-5 hours to flip a port. So a battle we wanted in our prime times now just got set 5 hours  later than we wanted it to be, but we aren't going to just give up and let some one grind it back down and start all over, that makes the stupid grind even worse.   Hell we didn't even have a full group for the port battle.  That is why we didn't come out and OW fight ya'll.  16 vs 25 on OW would prob been a slaughter on our part.  Yah had the optoin to have fight us in the Port battle at those numbers cause we didn't have 25 strong or even had screen us and fought us out side, but instead you went to the port battle you knew was going to be be empty.

So how exactly did that OW PvP turn out for you, both parties ended up pretty much doing nothing but sitting around that eve and getting nothing done.  Hell after the PB I logged off and went to play something else. I haven't been back in game since and that is not common for me.  Though need to hope on and do econ, but really don't see the point of that right now.

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15 hours ago, Sir Texas Sir said:

but instead you went to the port battle you knew was going to be be empty.

Actually we thought the Pirates would show up to help their allies.

And as you said, it was not empty. Had we gone down to fight you, we would have lost Dominica.

The port you took is literally useless so congrats on spending 5 hours flipping it for no reason. No wonder everyone in your clan is quitting. Your leadership is so concerned with "play to win" with a flawed definition of "win" that they aren't even concerned with the welfare or fun their own members are having.

Edited by Slamz
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14 hours ago, Sir Texas Sir said:

Wait wasn't some one bitching about off time fighs staged by Danes'a dn Pirates.  UH isn't US prime time not Danes strong time?  If I heard correct they couldn't even fill half the port battle numbers so it was like 12 vs 25, but that is what I heard.  All the while Pirates hit the server maintiance.  Stopped and than picked back up that eve to put the port battle in US prime time cause folks where bitching about the off US prime times.  I'll be honest the reason we been flipping some of the ports off prime time is cause the grind is so stupid.  We use to be able to flip a port in 1 1/2 hours pre-patch by hitting mega fleets.  Now it takes us around 2-5 hours to flip a port. So a battle we wanted in our prime times now just got set 5 hours  later than we wanted it to be, but we aren't going to just give up and let some one grind it back down and start all over, that makes the stupid grind even worse.   Hell we didn't even have a full group for the port battle.  That is why we didn't come out and OW fight ya'll.  16 vs 25 on OW would prob been a slaughter on our part.  Yah had the optoin to have fight us in the Port battle at those numbers cause we didn't have 25 strong or even had screen us and fought us out side, but instead you went to the port battle you knew was going to be be empty.

So how exactly did that OW PvP turn out for you, both parties ended up pretty much doing nothing but sitting around that eve and getting nothing done.  Hell after the PB I logged off and went to play something else. I haven't been back in game since and that is not common for me.  Though need to hope on and do econ, but really don't see the point of that right now.

I participated in that event. The grind of Dominica was to try to get Danes or Pirates to come out and fight us in the OW. When that didn't happen the call was to just flip the port then go for the pirate screening fleet and just let the Danes have the PB.  After I logged for the night the Pirates finished the dormant flip on Trinidad and the two PBs ended up 30min apart.  Now one fact to mention here. Whomever chose to flip Trinidad already knew the French had a PB in the North at the same time. Could have been an attempt to get the French to chose the South battle and there by defend the Danes that way. Or it could just as easily be viewed as a PB designed to avoid the French due to expected lower numbers of attackers.

In any event the day of the PBs arrives.  Everyone got the recon ships out. BLACK's is Lone Wolf's French alt sitting in the harbor and is untouchable because French can't green on green. Stupid mechanic that favors pirates heavily.  Some BLACK first rates are sighted but not enough to be the screening group the French are looking for.  They move south. Presumably to the other PB. Our alt scout follows until he is green on green tagged.  Now blind we wait for the PB and what was thought to be a pirate screen fleet grouping up unseen.  

Now the PB starts at Rosseau.  No pirate screen fleet shows. It is suggested they are still coming and the Danes will jump out of the PB and join the OW battle when they do. We wait. Nothing happens. Discussion erupts on if we should just go South and fight at Trinidad. However, with LONE WOLF FRENCH ALT STILL WATCHING US ITS POINTLESS as BLACK would know our numbers sailing down and either just log out before we get there or otherwise not fight us without some known advantage. So French just opt to take the port from the Danes in a really boring PB where only 3 ships get sunk.

Aftermath. French decide to give BLACK the line ship battle they have been asking for. So we get into 1st 2nd and third rate ships few of us ever skilled up and head south to meet them after the Trinidad PB.  LONE WOLFs FRENCH ALT now switches to a Connie so our low level pirate alt can't pull him into a battle.  He follows the French fleet to the South reporting numbers, ship composition and player names. By try to lose him a Carriacou but it fails. We have 24 French and here BLACK has x10 first rates but less support. It's decided that BLACK, knowing what we have coming will likely never give us a fight and just log out. So we just return to port.

So all this sinister plotting and calls that French are avoiding BLACK is pretty much BS. You knew what we had the entire night and you were the ones that had the control to choose the fights. You chose  a PB to the South and chose to only fight the French in that PB.  It didn't happen because we didn't know what you had chosen. But 25 French most certainly would have sailed to Trinidad if we had any idea you would have stayed and fought in that PB.  But let's be honest, as soon as LONEWOLF reported 25 French line ships heading to Trinidad would you really have fought that'?

The only thing I learned in that whole mess was that not being able to green on green really IS A HANDICAP and that I wasted another two hours of my life. :)

Edited by Bach
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33 minutes ago, Bach said:

I participated in that event. And stuff....

Yup.  Another potentially REALLY fun night ruined by, YOU GUESSED IT....

 

ALTS.

 

I'm convinced more than ever they THEY are in fact what has been the ruin of this game...   EVERY mechanic that has completely hello kittyed up the fun parts of the game has been driven by the need to defend against ALT abuse...  

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