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[Serious] Server Health

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19 hours ago, Skully said:

Enough chitchat lets work out the agreement.

2017-08-10-ConquestCompetition.PNG.2ac7bf14277942cb774972d9d5d4dff8.PNG

I think we can all agree which Nation has lost the Conquest Competition and should be removed from play.

Since Pirates are at the top I think it would be best to merge France with Pirates.

That should give enough peace to the French players to rebuild. If they are worried about being attacked by BLACK, I'm open to the suggestion of merger with Britain or Denmark.

I actually think Britain would make @Jeheil very happy, because then he doesn't have to join France to get to a fight.

Anybody see any problems with this arrangement? ^_^

 Jesus... that server is a mess. On Eu server we are losing some players but we don't have that unbalance. That map is getting all black and 2 nations already dead?

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1 hour ago, Captain Lust said:

You obviously weren't around for basic cutter abuse, sweet summer child? Bet you'd enjoy risking your hard earned ship versus a angry mob of 10 free basic cutters that can also repair for free indefinitely with no reward for sinking them? :) Also a basic cutter attacking a 1st is pretty retarded... you can sterncamp him all you want you'll never board it or take it down...it's just trolling and do you think a actual captain of a shitty cutter would have taken on a 1st rate back then?

Yes the open world is tough, but instead of creating rules of engagement that favor the experienced player over a new player why not just use a simple solution. Instead of the care bear ROE in place now, make basic cutters off limits to PVP. No one can attack another player or be attacked by another player while sailing in one.  

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1 hour ago, Cabral said:

 Jesus... that server is a mess. On Eu server we are losing some players but we don't have that unbalance. That map is getting all black and 2 nations already dead?

Not dead.  Actually I get far more PvP on GLIBAL server as French than I ever did over on EU. 

The Rats are just mad because nobody is playing the RvR game over here anymore. 

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21 hours ago, JobaSet said:

Here is what really happened to the server.

Black had a plan for the wipe why didn't you.
WHY? Every single time there has been a wipe the Nations gang up, and as a group have slammed us to one port and kick us while we were down.  We were going to try and stop it this time.  We as a group combined and mass produced 1st rates as fast as we could, While also slowly taken ports for marks.  The main goal of to build even more 1st rates and then we lvled them all of them.   While many Nations wanted to RVR and PVP we put a self imposed limit on our selves for the long term Future of the pirates.  We defended all ports when needed until got pushed to far.

And so it began! 

The US would not leave it be, constantly beating their bird chest, attacking ports attempting to Duel flip .  So we punched them in the Nose and took Sav.  The US caved for Brit support and Shot them selves in the foot and Still to this Day have not even stopped the bleeding.
They Lost every port in Gulf for support that never amounted to anything. As the Brit Nation Grew to big.  It is, Was, and Will never Change its all about numbers.  And they Had them.
The whole Time Pirates Steadily pushing out more and more 1st rates and getting slots(I expect a nerf and any time now, now that most have all five slots in most 1st rates and the Nations do not).  

Welcome to the other problem once we(Pirate) established that we are the Dominate Nation(Yes we are a Nation) in organization skills.  And the nations/Devs plan to stifle the Pirates Failed after completely changing how slots xp worked, removal of pvp marks, how getting Permits worked, Etc more or less everything we did was removed, So the other Nations would stop crying.  But we kept Adapting.  


The worse thing you can ever do to a well skilled and organized group... you wish to hamper, is give that organization a goal.  They gave it to pirates. Up until this point in Game there was no clear cut who was winning, who was not.  Enter the bullshit of Victory marks, I get it it should have been easy who every has the most people should get most reward.  But Once the Pirates had a goal it was over for the nations.  It was over before the 1st week was out and everyone knew it.  Then they Nerf how many VM you get,  We still on top.  Then they made it were VM didn't mean crap, and everyone and the Dog could have a 1st rate.....  None of that maters we are still on top.  

With that all said


We have and are still taken a hit with the French in PVP at the moment.  Not because we can't do it, we just didn't/don't have the Ships and Slots on many of the Ships to Fight head to head at that moment.  So we had to take a beating for a week or So near mort.  We listen to bird chest getting pounded we don't need Dots bla bla. From a Nation almost 2 hours away from home.  Then they(French) slipped, falling into a hype induced entitlement coma. hello kittyed up and  Flipped a port on us(Pirate) for some unknown reason.  This one act has changed the server as we know it!!!  The ramifications wont be seen for weeks to come.

Every Single Post in last two or three weeks has been to nerf Pirates in some way.  Or being accused of Hacks, exploits, Alt abuse, Let us not forget the Cheaters. With nothing from the Mods to quail this, outright , other than me getting ban for saying DRINK to much. Nations are given a free pass to spew off the chain bullshit to get your side excited...  But in realty, As my not so Subtle friend once pointed out GETGOOD get organized.  The French are doing it and Brits are following suit with the US well we will have to see.  They may have an edge on right NOW, but I am not to worried, but it appears most are that we will adapt again.  Just look at post over last 2 weeks.

 

This post right here shows what the biggest problem in the game is. Please dont take this personally as it is not just BLACK or Pirates as I have seen the same in many clans and nations. The game becomes about the winning not the taking part. It becomes more than a game it becomes winning at all costs.

It is quite clear from the post that this was all planned and well organised and I would have to say well done your plan worked and you have become the big dogs on the server. The problem is now that you are in that position there appears to be some sort of vanity or entitlement. You seem to feel that decisions made by the Devs were done directly against you because people moaned. You made a plan in the start to sit back and build up in preparation for this, you ground out your ship slots and prepared to unleash your attack. But dont you see it has become all about the winning not about enjoying the game. Even your attitude to the French bringing the battle to your doorstep, you state that you are not ready yet to face them but soon you will have got all slots unlocked so you will be unbeatable. Its not as if the French are attacking you in ships that have all slots unlocked. Your reaction to the French having the temerity to flip one of your regions speaks volumes, its sort of "how dare they play the game".

People say they are always looking for PvP in the game yet you hold back until you know you can win once you have all slots unlocked. This is the biggest failing of PvP in most games, people only PvP when they know they can win. 

You claim people are out to get you nerfed, but what is actually happening is the same as would happen to any other dominant nation in the game, people will complain about any slight tactic you use for your advantage. Look at when the Brits were seen as the dominant nation, all the complaints about them and how they had it easy due to the population size, they were accused of not creating content for others etc.

It may seem I am picking on BLACK but I am not, the reason I raise it is that this post makes it quite obvious. I saw the same on PvP1 with SORRY, also with the Danes pre-wipe where they felt it was their god given right to be able to enter port battles because thats where they were strongest. Look at the Swedes on EU at the moment, they are strong because they hand picked members after the wipe with the sole intent of becoming dominant on the server.

I think people need to step back at times and look at what they really want out of the game, is it to be so powerful that you can crush all opposition or do you want to have fun PvP win or lose. Because at the end of the day that is what will make the server a success or failure.

Edited by Archaos
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With only 85 online we still managed to get 17?? of us into a fight tonight :) all good fun...despite the outcome :)

 

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1 hour ago, Cabral said:

 Jesus... that server is a mess. On Eu server we are losing some players but we don't have that unbalance. That map is getting all black and 2 nations already dead?

Well to be honest, Spain was dead on launch.

 

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12 minutes ago, North said:

Seems like @Christendom was wrong in witch sserver would die out:ph34r: 

still bitter I see.  while global has lost some, we haven't lost anywhere near the amount of players your swe/dane non aggression move killed on EU.  1200+ down to 400/450?  For shame.  For the health of the server!

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10 minutes ago, Christendom said:

still bitter I see.  while global has lost some, we haven't lost anywhere near the amount of players your swe/dane non aggression move killed on EU.  1200+ down to 400/450?  For shame.  For the health of the server!

Nope, not bitter:D we are at war with sweden and friendly atm with brits and us now when u are out of the pictureB) jut find it funny that you want a server merge now that global is dying and try to convince eu people it's the best for the game after statements u made on t about the asians

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13 minutes ago, North said:

Nope, not bitter:D we are at war with sweden and friendly atm with brits and us now when u are out of the pictureB) jut find it funny that you want a server merge now that global is dying and try to convince eu people it's the best for the game after statements u made on t about the asians

Sure sounds like you are.  I also wanted a server merge 6 months ago before they announced the wipe, feel free to dig through the post history.  Anolytic is good at doing that.  I'm glad you're fighting the swedes now, it only took 2 months and destroying the french and pirates player bases by ganging up on them for you to do it.  Congrats.  

Fair play North!  For the health of the server!  

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4 minutes ago, Christendom said:

Sure sounds like you are.  I also wanted a server merge 6 months ago before they announced the wipe, feel free to dig through the post history.  Anolytic is good at doing that.  I'm glad you're fighting the swedes now, it only took 2 months and destroying the french and pirates player bases by ganging up on them for you to do it.  Congrats.  

Fair play North!  For the health of the server!  

Atleast there is people on this server and atleast we show up for port battles even if we are maybe loosing:rolleyes:

Hope you enjoy the server you where part of making what it is today:)

Edited by North

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13 hours ago, Barbancourt (rownd) said:

Heh, I enjoy the PVE game in Elite a lot.  In Elite there are always new places to go, more systems to take over and new factions to promote.  Flying never gets old.  (interdictions get VERY old though)  On the other hand PVE in NA is pretty much just about grinding money and XP the same way every day with no purpose beyond watching the numbers in the corner of the screen increase. When the NA server is down I'm flying in Elite promoting my pet factions and updating system info.  I don't like PvP in Elite at all, though. 

 

When you promote your pet faction, you basically watch a % value.  I was not too interested from this.  Also PP and BGS are completely separated things, like two different games running at the same time.  Did you btw. notice that Game Labs was about to do similar mistake.  Leave old Nations and Clans + build on top of those War Corps.  Not as bad, but still.  I am glad they did not do it.

Elite PvP is so bad that it basically does not have one.  I do not know many who like it, or even waste their time with it.  I believe they will never fix it either.  Elite is a PvE game, where you can do PvP if you so want to, and are lucky to find some.  A bit like Naval Action is at the moment.  NA is not in that deep pit yet tho.

Elite devs probably never understood that they lost thousands of players because they never created PvP content.  If a dev team can fail a game, Frontier Developments really nailed that hard.

Game Labs probably will follow this fail hard path, they are explaining their fail by saying "People get bored after so many hours".  I have thousands of hours in Naval Action, I know many who have that and even more.  I am not bored, they are not bored.  I am pissed and so are people I know, that devs are looking for reason why their game is failing and do not admit that it is their own fault.  Only way to fix this game is that devs admit that they failed, else they do not understand to fix anything.

Think about how obviously bad this is...  EVE has titans and NA has crafters who want to have something very expensive.  So lets make 1st rates like Titans and something expensive for crafters.  Only by reading that I feel there are maybe 10000 ways to fail with this plan.  Lets put on top of that, that port battles need 25vs25 Titans?  I believe 1st rates do not cost like Titans, but the issue...

Community has recommended for them 10000 times that can we get some variety to port battles, that it would not be 25vs25 1st rates, but rather different numbers of different rates.  If they want, they can have some ports that are still 25vs25 1st rates.  Different number of different rates creates more interesting battles, more realistic battles, and most importantly -> Game economics get lighter.  Easier to get together a RvR fleet -> More RvR, more players who can participate, more players who can participate with their limited amount of hours to play.

They want to implement something that those guys who have been in game 10 hours and quit, would get hooked and be part of our nice community.  Then they implement HC PvE Grind, state that there shall be no RoE rules, etc.  They say A and they do 100% opposite.  I am just asking that WTF are they doing?

Introducing 1 dura ships, but now ships are more expensive than when we had 5 dura ships.  Is this seriously going to keep people playing this game?  Even I cannot play this any more, so good luck with guys who quit this after 10 hours.

Ok, one more...

Think about upgrades.  We had upgrades that give 1-5% bonus, depending from quality level.  5% upgrade cost 10m and 4% upgrade cost 1m.  People were ready to pay 10 times as much from that +1%.  If you did not have that, you were at 1% disadvantage.  This 1% is not much, it is there, but definitely it is not much.  Now lets make upgrades so that you can have 3 of those, and each one gives you 10% advantage.  If you do not have those, you have 0.  3x 10% advantage -> 33.1% ...  That is a lot, you can be 33% worst player than your opponent and you still win.  Yes, devs pretty much failed hard here, they F*ed up here pretty damn hard.  A good skill based game turned to utter crap.

 

This game is failing just and only because Game Labs does so bad design decision.  One after another.

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5 minutes ago, North said:

Atleast there is people on this server and atleast we show up for port battles even if we are maybe loosing:rolleyes:

Hope yo enjoy the server you where part of making what it is today:)

Global's fine.  I certainly don't miss anti-US bias that you always brought to the table.  Always were a bad hombre.

I heard most of your PBs are cancelled due to a lack of players, kinda sucks.  We stopped doing them over here and just pvp most of the evenings, it's more fun.

Appreciate you checking in on a serious thread like this to throw our your bitter salt, I see not much has changed with you. last I heard you were barely playing.  Good to know you're still alive and kicking, we'll see you soon! 

Edited by Christendom
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@Duncan McFail

While I don't disagree with your above sentiments regarding player driven opportunities, lets also add a touch of reality to this. You've told me on a number of occasions, you don't care about the newbs around your capital, much less care about the lesser pirate clans. You've never come across as a troll or a liar in any of the chats we've had, and I generally consider myself a decent judge of character; I've always taken you at your word. I appreciate that people can change their minds, but thus far this has not been your stance up until now.  If you truly think those things you mentioned are worthwhile, then you should implement them for yourselves.

_______________________________________________

With all of that said, my opinion on the OP. I disagree with the premise. The game has long since had a rapidly declining population for a variety of reasons. Grinding, time required to engage in content, player base size, learning curve, appeal, shifting development goals, radically changing major systems and how they interact with daily gameplay (teleports, freeports, 1 dura ships, materials, ship capture, mods).

There is nothing we can do to fix or bring players back at this point. A server merge would only temporarily abate the dwindling population, while causing the Euro's to have a coronary. They don't want us back, the community would be more toxic than ever.

As for my clans part, we agreed when we came back after the wipe, we would play as long as we have players to sink in the open world. On day 1 we were hunting in the redeemable surprises up and down the coast, and it was glorious with 400 people online. We have put in I'd wager more hours than most clans, sailing across the map looking for players to fight. We've definitely have been committed to our goals. Can we continue on when the population is sub 200 or sub 150? I can say for sure, when the population is less than a 100 I won't be playing anymore.

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I know last night I was going to go out hunting... but instead looked at the player numbers, and with the chat exploit program that came to light yesterday.  I was just completely uninterested in anything to do with  Naval hAction.

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5 minutes ago, Hodo said:

I know last night I was going to go out hunting... but instead looked at the player numbers, and with the chat exploit program that came to light yesterday.  I was just completely uninterested in anything to do with  Naval hAction.

BLACK ruined pvp2 again?

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The crux of the problem is there is no way to get the players to want to play the same game.

[BLACK] wants to play the Dots game and just take ports away from anyone that looks at them the wrong way.  They think they win since no one has stopped them from doing this.   US and GB stopped trying to stop them.  France never intended on trying to stop them (not that they really could have put up a serious effort given none of the PB's were actually set at a time the majority of the nation could attend -- and the one port they flipped was never intended on being a PB but was just done in hopes it would get the Pirates to come out and counter grind).   For the most part the rest of the server has given up caring.  So they continue to grind PVE fleets to flip ports and continue to sit in empty PBs (or PB's where the defense fleet is thrown up for laughs and not any serious type of fight).  It can't be a huge amount of fun for the Danes and Pirates that are left to do this.

France wants to play the OW PVP game and thinks they win by sinking anything flying a Pirate or Danish flag.  They think they win because for the most part no one has stopped them from sinking anything that moves.  [BLACK] won't play that game until they finish grinding all their ship slots  This can't be all the much fun for [BLACK] unless they just enjoy mission grinding.  So the French sail around looking for them and in the meantime they sink anything else they can find.  This can't be all that much fun for the victims of the French patrols.  And its getting less and less fun for the French since they have to sail farther and farther and targets are fewer and farther between.

The Brits and US are stuck somewhere in between.

Denmark is stuck as the lapdog of the Pirates and are 1) either stuck grinding fleets for empty PBs just like the Pirates are or 2) sits looking at each other since they packed 90% of the server population that plays during their primetime into the same nation.  I can't imagine that being fun for them.

There aren't enough Swedes/Dutch/Spanish to make anything other than pure solo play practical.

 

I don't think Thunderdome solves this problem - you still have people unwilling to go out and fight and there isn't enough people that do want to fight to make it sustainable.

I don't think War Companies solve this problem - you still have the same problems you have with nations but you've just moved it to war companies.  people will shift war companies and bandwagon just like they do between nations.  Treaties will still stifle any type of game play as war companies negotiate their way out of actually being to play the game.

 

There is still an underlying problem with the way the game is set up that the key elements are not tied together in any meaningful way.  

Econ people can econ to their hearts content and watch their gold value go up and nothing else really affects that in a truly meaningful way -- trade goods, alts, smuggler flag, ship capture, etc. eliminate any real cause/effect interaction to the rest of the game

Crafter people can still build ships -- smuggler flag, uncapturable capital ports, alts, Permits = Marks, etc. eliminate any real cause/effect interaction to the rest of the game.  

RVR people can flip dots - ROE mechanics, PVE flip mechanics, etc.  eliminate any real cause/effect interaction to the rest of the game

OW PVP people can hunt - living out of freeports is totally viable as this is how France has been playing the game for weeks now and have proven there isn't any real cause/effect interaction to the rest of the game.  The Pirates and Danes still seem to think that 1 porting France will have an effect, but despite what we keep telling them they don't believe us or think we are just posturing.

 

 

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19 hours ago, Arsilon said:

The crux of the problem is there is no way to get the players to want to play the same game.

[BLACK] wants to play the Dots game and just take ports away from anyone that looks at them the wrong way.  They think they win since no one has stopped them from doing this.   US and GB stopped trying to stop them.  France never intended on trying to stop them (not that they really could have put up a serious effort given none of the PB's were actually set at a time the majority of the nation could attend -- and the one port they flipped was never intended on being a PB but was just done in hopes it would get the Pirates to come out and counter grind).  

LIAR

The very last one in Trinidad was at ~21:00 EST, 01:00 Server Time, you had 25 ships online in the area, we had far less, you still didn't show up and spent the evening trash talking in Global chat. You could have easily attacked BLACK in that port battle and had much more BR and rated ships.  

That "one port you flipped" was also at a perfect time for a fight, and instead you pussied out again with no excuse. No one tried to screen you. You can say you were scared to face a full fleet, that is fine, but stop lying about basic facts. (NOTE: Even the DUTCH had a Full Rated Fleet a month ago!)

You KNOW the hostility mechanics are broken - so far France has made 0% effort on attacking Pirates during hostility grind (something you falsely claim about others) - the reason a couple of ports battles were late night was because you stayed in port and we couldn't find AI fleets. 

YOU ARE A POSER. FRENCH OW-PvP IS FAKE NEWS. THE ONLY THING YOU WANT IS EASY FIGHTS (TRADERS, MISSION GANKS) AND RUN AWAY OR NO-SHOW AT ANYTHING REMOTELY EVEN (with very rare exceptions, whenever you are really close to a neutral or home port and still have a numerical edge). YOU AVOID FIGHTING IN PB LIKE FIRE BECAUSE IT FORCES YOU TO FIGHT IN A RING INSTEAD OF RUNNING. 

There's a reason why Boxing and MMA fights have rings - so cowards can't run, and once someone exits the arena, they lose by default. 

STOP LYING ABOUT WHY THIS GAME IS FAILING. THE REASONS ARE RIGHT THERE ON THE SURFACE:

DEVELOPERS DECIDED TO MAKE THE GAME INTO A JOB.

 

Edited by Tenet
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7 minutes ago, Tenet said:

---  SNIP  ---

I was out of town and couldn't log in, but from what I understood, Trinidad was set up at the same time Dominca was against the Danes.  Now if I'm wrong, then I should correct what I said and should have said "All but ONE of the PB's were actually set at a time the majority of the nation could attend"

The rest of your post I'm not sure what exactly has to do with this thread but *shrug*.

Edited by Arsilon

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9 minutes ago, Arsilon said:

I was out of town and couldn't log in, but from what I understood, Trinidad was set up at the same time Dominca was against the Danes.  Now if I'm wrong, then I should correct what I said and should have said "All but ONE of the PB's were actually set at a time the majority of the nation could attend"

The rest of your post I'm not sure what exactly has to do with this thread but *shrug*.

You never showed up to the OW during hostility grind OR PB regardless of the time. By not showing up to hostility grind and attempting to prevent the buildup, you avoided your precious OW PvP -and- ensured PB times will depend on AI fleets = unpredictable and bad. Side note - a Month passes after your first Trinidad Port Battle against the Dutch. How come you now have LESS ships than before?! Excuses. 

If you want to cry about bad PB timers, blame developers, not a mostly North American clan. 

Your attack on [BLACK] is the actual OFF TOPIC.  This thread is called Server Health. 

DEVELOPERS DECIDED TO MAKE THE GAME INTO A JOB.

Ignoring this problem is guaranteeing the game will fail.

Edited by Tenet

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Just now, Tenet said:

Your attack on [BLACK] is the actual OFF TOPIC. This thread is called Server Health. 

You never showed up to the OW during hostility grind OR PB regardless of the time. By not showing up to hostility grind and attempting to prevent the buildup, you avoided your precious OW PvP -and- ensured PB times will depend on AI fleets = unpredictable and bad. 

If you want to cry about bad PB timers, blame developers, not a mostly North American clan. 

Someone is a bit sensitive today.

I wasn't attacking Black in my post.  I was pointing out Black is playing a different game than other parties are in this game.  And until we can figure out how to make those different games intersect each other, nothing will actually get fixed in a meaningful way. 

 

But since you point out OW hostility grind, keep in mind that the hostility grind happens right before the PB flip is finished with a 2 hour offset.  When you flip a port for a 7am Eastern Portbattle, that means you finished the OW hostility grind at 9am Eastern.   Now if France is unable to show up at 7am for the PB, what makes you think they can show up to counter the hostility grind between 7am and 9am Eastern?  

And note, this is not a complaint.  Its a global server and PB times are what they are.  It is no secret that the French population and prime time is.  The Pirates (and Danes) can choose to flip any port they wish at whatever time of day they feel like it and declare victory....but my point is still valid, as a result we are playing different games which has everything to do with Server Health.

And as for Trinidad, same thing goes, we were already engaged at Dominica so there was no way to be in two places at once?  Or was that the idea? (I would have assumed it was)

 

 

 

 

 

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20 minutes ago, Tenet said:

-SNIP-

I hate to say this but some people in Black and in the pirates are part of the problem, but you refuse to accept this because...

1403843311-dont-drink-the-kool-aid.png

 

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28 minutes ago, Arsilon said:

The Pirates (and Danes) can choose to flip any port they wish at whatever time of day they feel like it and declare victory....

False - Pirates and Danes have to rely on AI-Fleets if you don't show up to the OW Defense. 

We can start grinding at 8pm EST  and not see a fleet for several hours and just idle there.

When you don't come out to defend, we have no chance to get hostility either way through PvP. 

You don't like people accidentally or intentionally giving you the same time? Why didn't you show up and disrupt a day before? 

You can hate Pirates or BLACK all you want and do that on any other thread, but attempting to derail "Server Health" into an accusation against Pirates is ridiculous considering every single problem you list -everyone- on the server has to face.

DEVELOPERS DECIDED TO MAKE THE GAME INTO A JOB.

When we waste any time attacking each other on this forum instead of discussing the main problem we're not making any progress.

Allowing the developers to hide behind this new "you all get bored" excuse is a betrayal of the potential of the sandbox Naval Action game.

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