The Bellona should not carry 24 pounders

[Jay Gatsby]

The Bellona should not be able to carry 24 pounders, it was structurally designed to carry only 18 pounders in the middle deck, only the largest and modern 74s were structurally able to carry 24 pounders, so why the Bellona in game can carry 24 pounders?

Edited August 4, 2017 by Jay Gatsby

[Salty Dog.]

I think they did that to make the bellona better than the standard 3 rate.

[Prater]

They could lower the crew count on the 74 instead.  Many British 74s were lucky to have 500 crew.

[Hodo]

7 minutes ago, Prater said:

They could lower the crew count on the 74 instead.  Many British 74s were lucky to have 500 crew.

Exactly.   And it gives noobs an option to sail something other than an Eggs or Constitution.

[Jay Gatsby]

1 hour ago, Salty Dog on Global said:

I think they did that to make the bellona better than the standard 3 rate.

This should be a realistic game if I'm not mistaken, instead developers should add the HMS Mars, which had been designed to carry 24 pounders in the middle deck

Edited August 4, 2017 by Jay Gatsby

[Hodo]

16 minutes ago, Jay Gatsby said:

This should be a realistic game if I'm not mistaken, instead developers should add the HMS Mars, which had been designed to carry 24 pounders in the middle deck

There is an idea.  Drop the 3rd rate, put the correct guns on the Ballona, and add the Mars.  Problem solved AND we get a new ship.  

Then just add skin option for the Ballona for to be the 3rd rate paint scheme.

Edited August 4, 2017 by Hodo

[Batman]

Then we should also get rid of the 42 pounders as all navies removed them as well. To heavy, used to much gunpowder. This would also allow 3rd rate ships to stand a fight against 2nd and 1st rates and not get reload shocked every broadside. Maybe also get rid of the 36 pound gun, as is can only be put on L'Ocean anyway and has never changed since it was introduced.

Edited August 4, 2017 by Batman

[Arthur Peckington]

Why we are at it the Buccentaure class of ships had 36pdrs on the lower deck not 42s. (And were 3rd rates) I didn't even know there were 36pdrs in the game. Is there any benefit to using them over the 42's?

[OneEyedSnake]

why does the santi carry 42s in game and not 32s? and why isnt the ocean forced to carry the 36s? compromise and balance. 

[Prater]

36 minutes ago, Arthur Peckington said:

Why we are at it the Buccentaure class of ships had 36pdrs on the lower deck not 42s. (And were 3rd rates) I didn't even know there were 36pdrs in the game. Is there any benefit to using them over the 42's?

I think only the Ocean can use 36s and can't use 42s?

[Arthur Peckington]

2 minutes ago, Prater said:

I think only the Ocean can use 36s and can't use 42s?

i have 42s on mine. But it is the only ship that uses 36s

Edited August 4, 2017 by Arthur Peckington
Spelling

[Jay Gatsby]

58 minutes ago, Batman said:

Then we should also get rid of the 42 pounders as all navies removed them as well. To heavy, used to much gunpowder. This would also allow 3rd rate ships to stand a fight against 2nd and 1st rates and not get reload shocked every broadside. Maybe also get rid of the 36 pound gun, as is can only be put on L'Ocean anyway and has never changed since it was introduced.

 

36 minutes ago, Arthur Peckington said:

Why we are at it the Buccentaure class of ships had 36pdrs on the lower deck not 42s. (And were 3rd rates) I didn't even know there were 36pdrs in the game. Is there any benefit to using them over the 42's?

 

6 minutes ago, OneEyedSnake said:

why does the santi carry 42s in game and not 32s? and why isnt the ocean forced to carry the 36s? compromise and balance. 

You did not understand my post, the Bucentaure, L'Ocean and Santisima Trinidad were structurally able to carry 42 pounders, Bellona was structurally unable to carry 24 pounders in the middle deck

[Arthur Peckington]

2 minutes ago, Jay Gatsby said:

 

 

You did not understand my post, the Bucentaure, L'Ocean and Santisima Trinidad were structurally able to carry 42 pounders, Bellona was structurally unable to carry 24 pounders in the middle deck

I did. I just ask another question.

[Batman]

@Jay Gatsby I just added something to your post. I know Bellona carried 18 and 32. The 24s were added sometime in the last year, probably in a desperate try to make her somewhat more competitive. Which didn't work, because for 2nd and 1st rates we have 42 pound guns, which have such an incredible increase in terms of simple firepower over the 32s that the Bellona is pretty much a useless ship in RvR - she can't stand a fight against bigger ships in Port battles. While historically the 3rd rates were the backbone of every navy.

 

I also know that the Victory carried 42s when she was commissioned.

Take a look here http://www.hms-victory.com/restoration you can read there that the 42 were removed for the reasons I stated above.

 

Edited August 4, 2017 by Batman

[Sir Texas Sir]

4 hours ago, Prater said:

They could lower the crew count on the 74 instead.  Many British 74s were lucky to have 500 crew.

I would put it around the 550-600.  We all ready have ships at 470, 500 and 650, but not in the middle.  This will also give new captains to that rank a ship they can crew and have a few spare if they loose.  

2 hours ago, Batman said:

Then we should also get rid of the 42 pounders as all navies removed them as well. To heavy, used to much gunpowder. This would also allow 3rd rate ships to stand a fight against 2nd and 1st rates and not get reload shocked every broadside. Maybe also get rid of the 36 pound gun, as is can only be put on L'Ocean anyway and has never changed since it was introduced.

Wasn't the Vict the only one that could structurally carry them?   It would give a bit of a bigger difference if they put the 42's only on the Victory and Pavel (not sure what it carried) and the Santi, L'Ocean and Bucc was restricted to the 36's.  

1 hour ago, Prater said:

I think only the Ocean can use 36s and can't use 42s?

While it's not really much of a difference I do prefer to run the 36 meds when I run a brawling DPS build on the L'Ocean over the 42's for the slightly better reload and lower weight, but it's so small most won't notice it.

[William Death]

I think, for now, the Bellona should continue to carry her current loadout to keep her somewhat in balance with the other "normal" SOLs (we are excluding the Pavel and "Third Rate" from this "normal" classification since almost nobody sails those ships right now if they have the choice of their better counterparts). If you reduced the Bellona's loadout to 32/18/9, I fear you'd have to change all the cannon loadouts for the 1st-3rd rates to something like what @Sir Texas Sir mentioned earlier in order to see Bellonas still sailing about.  
 

Or maybe do something like this:

To balance the Third Rate vs Bellona, make the Third Rate into a carronade ship. Maybe its not historical (I haven't researched to see if third rates ever carried main-gundeck carronade loadouts), but it would balance it a bit. 42/32/32 carronades would be pretty cool. Imagine coming up to that in your Bellona, you'd have a heck of a fight if you can't manage to keep range on him. 

Maybe do something similar with the Pavel to balance it with the Bucentaure: give her something like 42/32/32/24 carronades.

If you did that, then you could reduce the Bellona to 18pd cannons on her upper gundeck. Furthermore, you could reduce the Bucentaure, Santissima, and L'Ocean to 36pd longs on their bottom deck. Leave Victory with 42pd longs on her bottom deck.

[Lordicious]

Bellona can't carry 24 lbs? Made me giggle a little. 

[Chakal16]

French-Spanish calibers were different from the British ones, a 36p (french-spanish) is like a 39p (british), that's why the use of the 36 at L'Ocean, Santissima, etc... 

French pound > British pound > Austrian pound (Heavier > lighter)

 

Edited August 5, 2017 by Chakal16

[Thonys]

9 minutes ago, Chakal16 said:

French-Spanish calibers were different from the British ones, a 36p (french-spanish) is like a 40-42p (british), that's why the use of the 36 at L'Ocean, Santissima, etc... 

French pound > British pound > Austrian pound (Heavier > lighter)

even Dutch guns were different 

i really like to see a variation on guns in this game,  like if you are a British captain you only obtain your only nation lbs calibers guns

and if you are french you only have french caliber guns

that will give some nice twitch to the game

[HachiRoku]

14 hours ago, Batman said:

Then we should also get rid of the 42 pounders as all navies removed them as well. To heavy, used to much gunpowder. This would also allow 3rd rate ships to stand a fight against 2nd and 1st rates and not get reload shocked every broadside. Maybe also get rid of the 36 pound gun, as is can only be put on L'Ocean anyway and has never changed since it was introduced.

I dont think so there should always be options. I used the 32s on vic for speed and crew and it worked great. You should try

[Prater]

15 hours ago, Willis PVP2 said:

I think, for now, the Bellona should continue to carry her current loadout to keep her somewhat in balance with the other "normal" SOLs (we are excluding the Pavel and "Third Rate" from this "normal" classification since almost nobody sails those ships right now if they have the choice of their better counterparts). If you reduced the Bellona's loadout to 32/18/9, I fear you'd have to change all the cannon loadouts for the 1st-3rd rates to something like what @Sir Texas Sir mentioned earlier in order to see Bellonas still sailing about.  
 

Or maybe do something like this:

To balance the Third Rate vs Bellona, make the Third Rate into a carronade ship. Maybe its not historical (I haven't researched to see if third rates ever carried main-gundeck carronade loadouts), but it would balance it a bit. 42/32/32 carronades would be pretty cool. Imagine coming up to that in your Bellona, you'd have a heck of a fight if you can't manage to keep range on him. 

Maybe do something similar with the Pavel to balance it with the Bucentaure: give her something like 42/32/32/24 carronades.

If you did that, then you could reduce the Bellona to 18pd cannons on her upper gundeck. Furthermore, you could reduce the Bucentaure, Santissima, and L'Ocean to 36pd longs on their bottom deck. Leave Victory with 42pd longs on her bottom deck.

We used to have carronades on 1-3rd gundecks but they removed it.  I dont think we should go back.  As simple as lowering the crew count to would allow players to crew a 3rd rate earlier (you'd still have leftover crew after battle to replenish crew).  Slightly lower the resource requirement (just a little), and make it a common recipee ship(dont need admiralty).