Battle Sails! GIVE THEM A USE!!!!!!

[Hodo]

Here is a suggestion that has been suggested before and is being suggested again.

BATTLE SAILS

In battle it was VERY rare a ship would have full sails in battle, it would require to much crew to man all the sails AND keep control the ship AND have gun crews on all guns.

Many ships would go to battle sails because it required less sailors to man the sails, and freed up more men for the guns and emergency repairs.   Also it reduced the chance of masts coming down due to damage to rigging.   

So I suggest a simple solution.  Sailing crew requirement increased across the board.   But reduced as the sail power is reduced.   So it would look like this.

Snow sailing crew -60 

FULL(100%) -60

Half(80%)-48

Slow(60%)-36

Battle(40%)-24

Dead Slow(20%)- 12

 

This would give more realistic look to sailing ships in battle, and give some options to captains who sail MASSIVE ships to man more guns or reduce the reload in favor of trying to run.

 

Edited August 4, 2017 by Hodo

[admin]

yes.. originally in the sea trials they were giving a boost to turning

we are planning to give more uses to battle sails

1) increase turn rate
2) reduce fire chance
3) increase fire chance if you are not on battle sails

some magic has to be done with animations so they are well integrated into the sequences. 

[Hodo]

Just now, admin said:

yes.. originally in the sea trials they were giving a boost to turning

we are planning to give more uses to battle sails

1) increase turn rate
2) reduce fire chance
3) increase fire chance if you are not on battle sails

some magic has to be done with animations so they are well integrated into the sequences. 

Good the problem is every fight now is at full sails and no point in having any other sail settings.  

[Sir Texas Sir]

This has all ways drove me crazy that every fight you got guys going full sails in a brawling fight.  I would reduce the turn rate while at full sails (or increase battle sails, but I though it was suppose to be better).   Also is there any way to have it so we can set an actual speed so that every one goes to battle sails and can go the same speed.  My battle sails might be your half sails or some one else full sails depending on the speed of the ships in the group.

[admin]

1 minute ago, Peter Goldman said:

1. Less crew needed on sailing (more crew to man the guns, making it possible to fully man both sides...)

2. More dangerous fire

Battle sails were used when shooting against the wind because sparkles were blown up and back and could set all sails on fire. This can be easily implemented.

 

[admin]

so more accuracy too.

[Hodo]

This is the realm of realism and game play improvement.  So it is a win-win to work on.   

[admin]

1 minute ago, Rickard said:

since I constantly fail to catch your attention (I don't blame you, you're very busy Probably) I will try it here.

 

 

i am reading them too mate

[Teutonic]

I think this a great idea and I am glad something is being considered in order to make different sailing levels have different opportunities.

[Lordicious]

47 minutes ago, admin said:

Battle sails were used when shooting against the wind because sparkles were blown up and back and could set all sails on fire. This can be easily implemented.

 

Could you also add them to OS sailing (B --> 50% speed) key. Very useful. 

Edited August 4, 2017 by Lordicious

[Daguse]

YES PLEASE!!!!!!!!!!! 
will also add some additional tactics to the game, when do you risk your sails for speed? 

[z4ys]

Nice, ships on battlesails look much more majestic in battle compared to full sails.

Edited August 4, 2017 by z4ys

[Hodo]

1 hour ago, admin said:

Battle sails were used when shooting against the wind because sparkles were blown up and back and could set all sails on fire. This can be easily implemented.

 

I would love to see sails actually catch fire.  

 

[z4ys]

They can. It's just rar. I saw an AI on test server losing 30% sail hp while on fire (not exploding)

[Vernon Merrill]

Thanks Admin!  You guys are on to some really good changes.  

Noted and appreciated. 

[DeRuyter]

@Hodo Great topic. Battle sails were also known as maneuvering sails for much the same reasons as you mention - the easiest sails to control in different weather and battle conditions. The courses require the most manpower when tacking or gybing as well. The Constitution's current sails are essentially maneuvering sails - jib, forestays'l, tops'ls and spanker. I believe they have also added other stays'l and maybe t'gallants.

I have had sails catch fire but I am not sure if that started in the hull and spread. I was at full sails and on fire next thing I know my rigging was down to 70% from 100% and on fire!

One thing to keep in mind is that battle sails varied with the wind IRL. Nelson had to sail towards the French line with full sail including stuns'ls. Of course we don't want extremely light winds in NA

@admin Battle sails - another reason to have some variable wind and weather conditions, for example someone using full sails in high winds has a good chance to suffer rigging and sail damage. Also you would have a much less heel and a more stable firing platform with the right sails set in battle - more player skill involved. As a sailor I am always interested in this feature.

[Hodo]

52 minutes ago, z4ys said:

They can. It's just rar. I saw an AI on test server losing 30% sail hp while on fire (not exploding)

I saw it once on the test server, but never on the live servers.

[Guest]

Interesting way to take the meta away from speed. 

[Genma Saotome]

The change sounds good, being able to animate sounds even better. Since new animation / model changes has been brought up, can I add open gun ports in battle situations only? Real Studding sails too?

 

Side comment: When the sails go up in a blaze a lot of flaming tar falls from the rigging.  Big Problems!

[Hodo]

13 minutes ago, Genma Saotome said:

The change sounds good, being able to animate sounds even better. Since new animation / model changes has been brought up, can I add open gun ports in battle situations only? Real Studding sails too?

 

Side comment: When the sails go up in a blaze a lot of flaming tar falls from the rigging.  Big Problems!

That is a different topic all together sir.

[Sir Texas Sir]

7 hours ago, admin said:

so more accuracy too.

This would be good too as it's silly folks are snipping from miles away while going full sail.  I do use depower a lot when I do these type of shots.   Speaking of accuracy when are we going to remove the laser accurate stern cannons.  That was put into game to give Traders a chance in battle, but not the meta is to use the Surprise and it's four stern gun to shoot down the sails of several chasers and escape.  It's sad when the Surprise 4 guns hit every time, but you miss half your Trinc guns hit cause of the in game accuracy.   The stern guns need to be tuned back down to what the other cannons accuracy is when on the run.  Might a slight bonus for stern and bow guns.

Than add in a accuracy pen while at full sail compared to Battle sails and I'll be a happy camper so more folks drop to battle sails in actual fights.

5 hours ago, z4ys said:

They can. It's just rar. I saw an AI on test server losing 30% sail hp while on fire (not exploding)

When I was testing my DPS build on the H Rattler and another ship and used the Open Mag until I got other mods on the ship slots.    I would loose on average 10% of my sails just from ship fires.  Hell and grenades on a 4th rate is deadly on the fires.  It causes more fires than the open mag does apparently.  I don't even want to test that on a 6-7th rate.   

[Genma Saotome]

2 hours ago, Hodo said:

That is a different topic all together sir.

There was an suggestion earlier about how battle sails might require changes to existing animation.  That's normally a change to the 3d model.  If they have to go back to the mesh they might as well be looking at all of the animation changes people would like to see -- the point of my post.  So not so far off topic as you might have thought.

That said, I take no offense at your thought.  In future may I suggest you complain to the moderators (always better than one member trying to seize the authority of mods for their own use)?  It's their job not yours. IMO the mods here are remarkable inactive.  Perhaps if they were to be woken up now and then they'd see there are a whole lot of threads that would benefit from ordinary topic splitting (a feature of IPB board software).

Edited August 4, 2017 by Genma Saotome

[AlteSocken]

Maybe I'm foolish on this, but I allways have the light blocks and ropes book abord, since I very often change sails during combat depening on course, intended maneuver and current situation. E.g. when I'm jibing and want to outturn my opponent, I use the setup with the lessest staysails or at least depower (besides from lowering sais in general to reduce speed). From theory it should make me turn faster, but at least it reduces the way made during manouver.

Now I am a bit confused due to the statements made here. @admin stated that right now there is no increase in turn-rate (it's planned), which corresponds with my observation. But, since it is nearly impossible to tack without staysails, I always had the feeling that it makes sense to get rid of them while jibing. Now I wonder, is this pure imagination or working as I'm thinking of it?

[Jacob van Heemskerck]

22 hours ago, admin said:

Battle sails were used when shooting against the wind because sparkles were blown up and back and could set all sails on fire. This can be easily implemented.

 

I like the idea of giving the battle sails more function when a fire mechanic is already added to the game and it has a dedicated keyboard key binding to it, now it seems only a use to reduce ship speed or keep at low speed at the moment. 

And like the OP said the idea to reduce sail crew needed when sails are not beeing used seems a big compliment to the crew management during battle. 

Crew and material management should be more decisive who win's or loses a battle/duel, in my humble opinion. 

I'll give these idea's most definetly a upvote.

Edited August 5, 2017 by Jacob van Heemskerck

[Quineloe]

@admin Fire is still beneficial to the player receiving it. You can turn your ship into a bomb on a whim, you can use it to deny capture and if you don't want to have it right now, it's like 5% (12 out of 240) or even less of your crew to put it out with no damage done to your ship in a minute. Fire does nothing detrimental except tie up a tiny amount of crew.

There seems to be a tiny chance to suffer some instant sail damage when a fire breaks out now, but it really rarely ever happens.