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Preliminary discussion of the changes to conquest - clan wars are coming

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13 hours ago, admin said:

All features - all design before was focused on - How can we make a player a target more often. Which was loved by pvp players. But the majority left.

The problem I see is "audience shift".

PvP lovers quit in 2016 because it was too hard to find good PvP. Teleports... shipping from free port to free port... port capture mechanics making it extremely irritating to try and move up a front line to base out of... PvPers got frustrated and quit.

SOME came back to try the patch 10 changes and I dare say we like them overall. There is still more to do but we like what patch 10 did. But you lost a lot of the non-PvPers who were upset at the changes.

So the 2016 game lost the PvPers.
The 2017 game lost the PvErs (and too few PvPers came back to try the new system).
That leaves....not a lot of people.

Still to do:

RvR and PvP are disconnected. You can RvR while mostly avoiding PvP. And you can PvP while ignoring RvR. Somehow we need to get these systems to overlap more. "Contention grind" was supposed to do it but it still moves too fast. In a game where a fight can last 90 minutes and sailing around easily takes 30+ minutes, an organized group can completely take a port from 0 to 100% contention faster than a resistance can see this and organize to fight them.

Pick an audience, focus the marketing on that audience and then advertise to them.

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19 hours ago, admin said:

 

We can supply new players to game (10000 new players came to NA during last 3 months) but current system do not keep them. No-one stayed. 

 

you should prolly divide that number by 2 to account for the amount of alternate accounts that were bought during summer sale.        and if you want them to stay  ADD a UI that doesn't look like total trash. put in a sound track to the game. its the little things that matter for first timers.

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19 hours ago, Sir Texas Sir said:

Wow some one needs to take a chill pill or something this post is about RvR game mechanics not about pirates.

It might no please you but it is totally on subject :

Do we continue with the stupidity of having pirates acting exactly as any other Nation able to do conquests while profiting of extra advantages the other Nations don't have, even now having the special privilege of getting a fleet totally immune versus enemies in front of a port since no one can reach them in a outlaw battle or they can do the outlaw a few minutes just before a server restart and hide for hours there until they decide to all log into the game at the same time many hours later, one of the many advantages they always received from day one in this game for no reasons at all since they are not pirates, never acted as pirates, always acted as a Nation like the others, or do the Dev's finally put them balls on the table and deliver what they promised : make the pirates a hardcore mode and make them real pirates not able to do conquests and instead create what they also spoke about themselves in this thread, a raiding mechanic that can be used just for this hardcore faction and conquests possible only for Nations.

This whole pirates mascarade have lasted long enough, since this is about conquests it's time to know if this supposed historical game will continue with the non sense of pirates acting as a Nation while receiving bypasses and special privileges making them the easiest faction to play in game since the first day of this game or continue to be a Nation exactly like the others and then get them special privileges removed once and for all or if they finally deliver what they promised more than once about pirates... Simple as this. 
 

Edited by Kanay

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12 hours ago, Captain Lust said:

 

Read what he commented, please. My "type of play" is PvP.... on the PvP server ( it doesnt mean sealclubbing ) . If anything the increased reward for pvp will increase activity of real pvp players on the pvp server = more content and not chase them away. This guy clearly wants to play only pve and ended up on the wrong server, so i gave him helpful advice. If he actually wanted to play pvp too he would want increased rewards for it since it takes way more time and risk to get a good pvp fight over a npc mission. We have a PvE server for a reason. Can you comprehend?

By "your type of play" i mean players engaging other player in pvp while they are not ready. 

Let me explain: this game requires ship exp before u can open knowledge slots. Because of this some chose to do pve missions. Pvp players because they do not have a place to do their pvp, will sail to enemy regions and there attack any and every player they see. And so, u have players that are ready to do pvp attacking, players that do not feel ready for pvp. 

This is what i mean with "your play style".

As admin said predators need a steddy supply of prey. Well, turns out pray, do not play allong with this view.

Now, stop harrassing me!

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8 hours ago, Captain Lust said:

seapirates_395.jpg

Sorry, i had to...

And yet those 5 guys are all it takes to capture billion gazillion tons cargo ship, while in game traders fight like terminators. And something tells me they don't even need to turn him into wind in order to board him :P

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17 hours ago, Sven Silberbart said:

Yes. Wee need green zones and a very good reason (money, and/or goods) to sail out.

I remember an online game having a simple idea. Two realms and at the special times an event to craft goods for selling with good profit. That was a real PvP Hotspot. The players organized themself in the green area start sailing their ships towards there. Much fights on the way to and much more fights at the hotspot. If you could craft some valuable goods without get killed start sailing the dangerous way back to home. A simple design as this:

 

 

Unbenannt.JPG

this is the plan

but - what we are worried about is that the pvp hotspot will only give profits for privateers and organized large pvp groups (like those who are delivering 200,000 fittings to free towns in one trip). 

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What is the difference between the pvp zone we once had and the pvp event which both hadn't worked?

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I'm more concerned with players who can play at 9am making their millions risk free because no one is online while those who are limited to playing at prime time will find this content inaccessible due to high risk.

Right now you have players sailing back and forth between capitals (with one of them obviously being hostile!) without a care in the world, making profits each trip, simply because they can play when there are only 100 players online.

I am having the impression that this is already now the case, whoever is online right after server up can sell trade goods for excellent prices, and by 10pm all the good trade goods are saturated at 1 gold and you don't even have that option anymore.

Edited by Quineloe
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32 minutes ago, admin said:

this is the plan

but - what we are worried about is that the pvp hotspot will only give profits for privateers and organized large pvp groups (like those who are delivering 200,000 fittings to free towns in one trip).

 Of course it will, what do you expect from this ?

Traders not escorted, either lone players, or some with smaller players escorts or larger clans who will after a bit get bored to death escorting dedicated traders members to in the end just play the scarecrow as most players in groups won't bother to attack a similar force group, they use them group to attack only if they are assured of a victory at the end, they can be in slightly better hips and superior numbers but they won't risk it if there is a single chance to loose ... only attacking when it's a guaranteed win... not like this have not been seen over and over since the OW release and being a constant ...  large escorts will just push them away for a bit  playing the scarecrows, the hunters will just search focus on easier preys while staying away from what could hurt them ... and you perfectly know what will be the main targets there, it will be again the poor traders as you always provided them as easy meat... nerfing them each patch so they become the main "pvp" (sig) content in this game... Many so called pvp guys will just avoid most of the other guys in warships and wait for the large traffic of lone or low defended trading ships in the easy meat area of the map you try to create ...

Plus it will be like the Vatican during WW2, the place in the world with most spies by square meter, most alts will be in this area doing them work and reporting intel easily ...

 

Edited by Kanay

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IMHO placing start location at national capital big trading and shipbuilding center is not helping to populate game with new players. New players have to first get used to the game, grind ranks and explore the game content. If one cannot rank up and learn on PvE server and than migrate on PvP server, there has to be separated protected areas. Players should be able to understand where to sail to find certain type of gameplay. They should be not afraid of unexpected changes happening when they don´t play for few days. Progress in this game is slow so players are very sensitive when they loose game progress. Unprotected zone means higher risk because of unpredictable human opponents.  So PvP should offer rare resources and provide loot that cannot be acquired in safe PvE areas, to balance that.

Do you agree with me that with recent settings people are not interested in port battles? IMHO there is already a lot of attractive content but just lack of balance enforced by game rules. Why players get rare drops from random PvE? Why people do not attend announced PvP events and prefer ambushing helpless players? 

 

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22 minutes ago, Quineloe said:

I'm more concerned with players who can play at 9am making their millions risk free because no one is online while those who are limited to playing at prime time will find this content inaccessible due to high risk.

Right now you have players sailing back and forth between capitals (with one of them obviously being hostile!) without a care in the world, making profits each trip, simply because they can play when there are only 100 players online.

I am having the impression that this is already now the case, whoever is online right after server up can sell trade goods for excellent prices, and by 10pm all the good trade goods are saturated at 1 gold and you don't even have that option anymore.

Also... We all know that traders with cargos worth millions or players transporting best PB ships do it right before and after maintenance, for 100% safety. As it's hard to get them (some of my friends managed to cap Indiamen worth 3-4m each for example), you have limited time until server shuts down. Another factor is that population is like 100 players online, so it's almost risk-free. One will get caught and other 50 will succeed. With the PvP Global population, they would fill that gap of empty server at night and mornings for us with US and Aussie players, thus making it less safe voyage and will balance everything more :)

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I like that the regions dissolve and the flags are coming backI. However I am a bit confused about all the different directions this game has taken...I dont like the complexity of the proposed system, I don´t think it will ever work for the players.

I think it would be better to respect the KISS ( KEEP IT SIMPLE STUPID) system. I like History, it is my thing, but the History part should not come on the expense of the fun of the game.

In stead of Clan wars, just bring nation cohesion back, and do not make fault lines between different types af clans, don´t limit the player experience.

My best experience from this game thorough the last 1,5 years was when it was actually possible to help players out a good wile after they where attacked in OW, making it difficult to attack in national waters and when it happened it could bring out a lot of players for PVP making for frequent large PVP OW battles, and making the new players feel that they could depend on the nations help, as a counter wieght  to ganking from other nations, and especially pirates ( It is supposed to be hard, to attack in national waters close to a capital, and it is supposed to be hard being a pirate, and they where never really a nation). That made new players feel very welcome to the game, and supported and befriended by the nation, in what is a difficult game to start in.  The introduction of Rookie zones just made for seal clubbing by admirals in love with the swiftness of small ship action (A rattlesnake can be just as fun as a Santissima). And It was harder for the nation to help out and support new players that chose to spawn there.

That you had to fight over every port in stead of regions made for more freequent PB´s , and more rvr activity, I guess that is coming back now I hope.

However for me this game has become and huge PVE grinding effort(We all want to sail a ship with the best upgrades, which makes for a hideous PVE grind) , severely limiting my time and resources for PVP. I hope that will change, but PVP should be easy to come by from the start for new players without the risk of loosing so many resources/ PVE grind time that it would take a fourthnight to recover from the loses. Make this game more accessible for people who are not able to play day and night, have families and jobs.

I am not saying that I have a lot of answers on how this great game should be, I just wanted to share my toughts .

All the best to you all.

Kiilerich

DANVE/Danmark-Norge

 

 

 

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18 minutes ago, admin said:

this is the plan

but - what we are worried about is that the pvp hotspot will only give profits for privateers and organized large pvp groups (like those who are delivering 200,000 fittings to free towns in one trip). 

If a large organized group want to make big profit they need to bring slow trader ships with big hull and an escort. The opposite could try to capture them even with lower numbers but more battleships. Maybe it is also a good idea to craft items to bring there, wich are needed to craft the trade goods. Those item carriers would be an intersting startegic target. The whole big organized fleet craft their items and starts sailing back. Sometimes they are disrupted by the several fights. This is the time for the smaller groups and lone players. Either to sneak to the craft spot and craft goods for themselves or attacking the smaller parts from the former big organized fleet.

"only give profits for privateers and organized large pvp groups". A big organized fleet would always try fight for the biggest profit spot. If there are some other lower profit spots, maybe there is the chance for smaller groups or lone players. But all spots should be close together to create a bigger pvp area. Or maybe use shallows to create sneaky ways for smaller trader and lone players a big fleet would not sail trough.

 

 

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19 hours ago, admin said:

Lets be honest
Lets imagine a new player. He just got his captain rank. He wants to pvp eventually but he wants to get some foothold first.

What is the risk/reward for a unexperienced player sailing solo in his cerberus or LGV from KPR to Hispaniola near la navasse?
Even if he gets 100 mln for that SUPER DUPER IMAGINARY mission. Do you think he will get to it? 
Even with the free ships.. do you think he will sail there after 3rd sinking?

 

well to solve the problem in eve they introduced the Opportunity   section 

where a beginning alpha has to do some stuff like killing rats in the belt , and he gets rewarded for it, also after he has been rewarded for his achievement is accomplished ,he is directed to a next opportunity(by popups ) he has to follow, for the only purpose to get to know the game on his basics , also joining a clan is one of them ,or hauling goods from one port or loading long guns ,or make rum for the crew ,,and make a small upgrade, to  just to learn basic stuff , if we had a similar system the game makes the player becomes  aware of the opportunity to sail in a clan, or the danger he can expect in OW ...it will help the new player of the awareness of his potential, how great this game can be for him, just doing some good experience (forced by the game) instead of throwing himself in the deep and drown. and never been seen again..... this can be done by pop up with explanations in the first beginning of the player 

Edited by Thonys

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18 hours ago, admin said:

Lets be honest
Lets imagine a new player. He just got his captain rank. He wants to pvp eventually but he wants to get some foothold first.

What is the risk/reward for a unexperienced player sailing solo in his cerberus or LGV from KPR to Hispaniola near la navasse?
Even if he gets 100 mln for that SUPER DUPER IMAGINARY mission. Do you think he will get to it? 
Even with the free ships.. do you think he will sail there after 3rd sinking?

 

No, because you took out gold / exp for damage.
The most fundamental change you've done to PVP in my opinion.
Win - Loss - Draw -> Battle Report: No Rewards is the most frustrating thing people complain about in my experience. They'd rather see no message at all.

Edited by Quineloe
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47 minutes ago, Quineloe said:

I'm more concerned with players who can play at 9am making their millions risk free because no one is online while those who are limited to playing at prime time will find this content inaccessible due to high risk.

Right now you have players sailing back and forth between capitals (with one of them obviously being hostile!) without a care in the world, making profits each trip, simply because they can play when there are only 100 players online.

I am having the impression that this is already now the case, whoever is online right after server up can sell trade goods for excellent prices, and by 10pm all the good trade goods are saturated at 1 gold and you don't even have that option anymore.

Does not even has to be the capitol.

Freetowns have their own "nationality". For example Les Desirade is French, producing French trade goods, which sell bad at Fort Royal, but sell very well in other capitols. Nowadays, Les Desirade is well inside the Swedish territory, making trips between this port and Gustavia an easy trip (as long as Moscalb and his ganking colleages are offline, of course). The same story can be told about other freetowns. 

Normally, such behaviour would simply reduce the prices for French trading goods in Gustavia to a point where it is not profitable any longer. But with rigid prices, this is not the case. Just wait until the port has consumed enough for prices to soar above 1g, and it will magically buy the trading goods for very high prices again.

The economy part of the game is simply a joke. This has nothing to do with player numbers.

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I don't think that's a bad economy. It generates money rather than just redistributing it. It generates trading that doesn't rely on labor hours. The question is: Is it profitable enough to that instead of just doing missions? Is it too easily available without risk in the slow hours? How many trips do you need to afford losing everything once?

 

Edited by Quineloe

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54 minutes ago, admin said:

this is the plan

but - what we are worried about is that the pvp hotspot will only give profits for privateers and organized large pvp groups (like those who are delivering 200,000 fittings to free towns in one trip). 

Unbelievable 

200000 fittings

If Iron Fittings then (200000*1)/(4000*1.20)=42 Indiamana (Weight=1 Perk Hold Optimization=1.2)

If Wooden Fittings then (200000*0.7)/(4000*1.20)=30 Indiamana (Weight=0,7 Perk Hold Optimization=1.2)

I would like to know clan tag this group.

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15 minutes ago, Quineloe said:

I don't think that's a bad economy. It generates money rather than just redistributing it. It generates trading that doesn't rely on labor hours. The question is: Is it profitable enough to that instead of just doing missions? Is it too easily available without risk in the slow hours? How many trips do you need to afford losing everything once?

 

It is a bad economy if riskless trade brings the same amount of profit than risky trade. Why should I risk to sail to La Orchila to buy Dutch trade goods, when I can flood the Swedish capital with French trade goods from La Desirade?

I can do a risk-free trade run from La Desirade with some friends, 6 Indiamen and some frigates as guards, built a battlegroup, nobody can tag us. Gives millions of profits.

Of course, missions are profitable as well. Or crafting can be profitable as well. Usually players do a mixture of everything, wich is okay. But the amount of time needed to fund PVP is rediculous. This is the real time sink.

If I waste two hours chasing others in OW PVP, I am dissapointed, but that is okay. If I have to waste two hours for trading/missions to replace my losses from PVP, I am deeply annoyed. That is the difference here.

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qw you can be sure there's at least one to my knowledge that does it. 4 Indiamans per player in a non stop lane, back and forth.

might be the exceptional case, but it exists.

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1 minute ago, The Red Duke said:

qw you can be sure there's at least one to my knowledge that does it. 4 Indiamans per player in a non stop lane, back and forth.

might be the exceptional case, but it exists.

42 indiamana = 200*42=8400 BR. Who can attack this battle group?

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25 minutes ago, qw569 said:

Unbelievable 

200000 fittings

If Iron Fittings then (200000*1)/(4000*1.20)=42 Indiamana (Weight=1 Perk Hold Optimization=1.2)

If Wooden Fittings then (200000*0.7)/(4000*1.20)=30 Indiamana (Weight=0,7 Perk Hold Optimization=1.2)

I would like to know clan tag this group.

Usually, it's 1-3 players that have 3-4 Indiamen fleet and he is stockpiling resources for many days. Admin has a big imagination of 1 clan fleet / organized group that does one trip with 50 Indiamen.

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When I started playing this good game at the beginning of last year you could sail round in national waters and be gank without doing too much harm because you knew that there would be help from the rest that nation people had time to come and Help one when the struggles were open for a long time and everyone came in all sizes of ships you came in everything from a snow to a bellona it gave some very big and flexible matches but today people can not get into the fight and help and Those who may be able to reach it on time will not always do so because it has become too expensive to build ships it takes too many hours to grind missions to get enough marks to buy blueprints and permits victory marks is, in my opinion, far too expensive in combat marks.

Besides this, I am very worried when I hear that you will do the fact that the Swedish and Danish capital are the only ones that can take over. I fear that this will mean the end of our 2 nations, as it will make it very difficult to get new people Play for the 2 nations

In addition to this, I thought it's a really good game and I'm looking forward to having to hit several ports and not entire regions as this will give far more portbattles and I hope you will make it a little easier to get ships Again, I think this will promote PvP

With the deepest respect and devotion tm2804

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23 minutes ago, qw569 said:

42 indiamana = 200*42=8400 BR. Who can attack this battle group?

Ah, you assume they go in battle group :) Actually they don't, the ones I know, from what I seen. They go piece meal intervals during a couple hours until they dry all buy and sell in the area. 

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Sooooo Clan wars are coming ??? or Something similar ? Or classic bait and switch ? Looking forward to possible war companies but until some definite info appears .... I'm not holding my breath

 

Needs to be something new and exciting, summer holidays might not  be helping with a lull. New players trying a new game with nobody playing won't stick around long and won't leave a good review. I left a good honest review in my first two weeks. Please don't expect a good  review for NA Legends, it wasn't what I paid for. If I wanted lobby based games there are far more polished games out there

 

Most of us here love the game, we want it to succeed butoo many changes alienate your player base and nobody joins a game with nothing to do, no guide , no manual and seeing nothing on the horizon that resembles what they purchased

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