Preliminary discussion of the changes to conquest - clan wars are coming

[Vizzini]

6 minutes ago, Archaos said:

Have'nt you learned yet, people do not come here for reasonable debate.

This is the only place they can find decent PVP ?

[jodgi]

41 minutes ago, Prater said:

It's not the economy, its the cost of things.  There wasn't enough reduction in blue print required resources when durabilities were reduced to 1.  And, on top of it, we now have million dollar modules.  2 hours to replace a 5 durability ship...that might be acceptable.  2 hours to replace a 1 durability Surprise, that is unacceptable.

I hope you're right.

A glimmer of hope then.

[Hodo]

1 hour ago, koltes said:

Hodo, I dont care, what flag I carry and how many clans are there in US. If we were to bring BLACK to US we would NEVER EVER rely on their clans. If they come and do something good. If not, who cares. This is how it always was in Pirates. Mort rats where always doing their own thing. BLACK did their own.
You just fail to see that its ONE clan that is beating you. Not the nation. No matter where you take this clan the results will be the same

Funny didnt seem that way at PaP a few weeks ago.   Let me see... BLOOD, BLACK, HYDRA, GS6, and a few others.  Sounds like more than ONE, UNO, EIN clan.  

1 hour ago, Vizzini said:

I'm ignorant in the ways and rules of the game, but are there things the nationals can do and the Pirates cannot and vice versa . I know outlaw battle is something they can do , are there others ? I don't mean things that can be easily sorted with alts ..

 

People often bring up, we're or you're the biggest Nation, but do we know this for a fact or are we portraying our perception as fact when it's not entirely true ?

 

Seems to be a lot of facts churned out which are only opinions , not helpful for  a reasonable debate

Pirates have the one thing you listed and one unintended feature.  

The outlaw battle mechanic is a way for the stronger larger clans to enforce their will on the smaller less powerful clans.  Which BLACK has done.  

The unintended mechanic is they can use this outlaw battle mechanic can be used to attack NPC Pirate fleets in a region that is under threat to greatly prolong hostility grinds.   

 

 

 

Edited August 10, 2017 by Hodo

[Slamz]

1 hour ago, Prater said:

It's not the economy, its the cost of things.  There wasn't enough reduction in blue print required resources when durabilities were reduced to 1.  And, on top of it, we now have million dollar modules.  2 hours to replace a 5 durability ship...that might be acceptable.  2 hours to replace a 1 durability Surprise, that is unacceptable.

I keep hearing this argument but still don't believe it.

Is there any veteran who is not doing PvP because he can't afford to? He has lost too much and no longer has the time to build more ships?

How many people quit playing and still had 3-4 perfectly good ships sitting in dock? I don't think affordability has ever been the problem, at least not for OW PvP.

[Vizzini]

3 minutes ago, Slamz said:

I keep hearing this argument but still don't believe it.

Is there any veteran who is not doing PvP because he can't afford to? He has lost too much and no longer has the time to build more ships?

How many people quit playing and still had 3-4 perfectly good ships sitting in dock? I don't think affordability has ever been the problem, at least not for OW PvP.

i firmly believe it's to do with people being lazy and wanting a backup ship for their backup ship and on and on and being unprepared to put any skin in the game

[Kanay]

2 hours ago, koltes said:

WTF? Can you elaborate on this please? Give me 1 thing that makes it any easier to play a Pirate? Just ONE thing that made it "always" and "still is" and easiest nation in the game.
The ONLY thing that national dont get of what pirates have is Green on Green. Does this somehow makes us more powerful? Would you like to have Green on Green in your nation too?
I certainly would welcome that idea!! I can hunt you then with the same flag as yours and at the same time benefit of being in the large nation. If anything GnG makes it harder for us.

Do we get same player intake when new people coming to the game?.. Nope, no one turns pirate when they start. Its usually US or GB that they choose naturally.
Do we get same access to BPs?.. Nope. We have to smuggle them from nations.
Do we get access to stronger builds than nationals?.. Nope
Do we get access to bigger ships than nationals?.. Nope
Do our ships sail faster and guns shoot further?.. Nope
Even the Pirate perk we had was accessible to everyone.
And don't even let me get started on the alliances that we used to have while pirates could not ally.

So yeah. Please explain exactly what you mean. I want to know how am I in advantage being a pirate?

 

2 hours ago, koltes said:

That's a BS argument. Outlaw battle opens for full duration. Nationals can achieve exact same thing by attacking AI fleet and the battle will close in 3 minute.
Do you have any other real arguments? Question was HOW am I in advantage? Even in this example using Outlaw battle does not give ANY advantage. In fact it puts us in disadvantage in comparison.

"Largest nation because of reasons" means what exactly? First of all we are not largest nation. We are nation that have largest veterans base. We didnt get them because we are pirates. If BLACK were Spanish we would do exact same thing as a Spain. When I was recruiting I personally went around the server and cherry picked players who had the right attitude. This effort took months. How being a pirate helped me to do that? You are mixing up player's efforts and the game play. Whatever advantages we have now as pirates was hard earned by my clan. We were given nothing for free. Nothing that you didn't have

Pirates since day one were advantaged in game, yes your ships used to sail faster, not anymore indeed,  yes you still have a dedicated ship completely outclassing what the Nationals have as equivalent at them disposal, in terms of performances of BR and xp knowledge needed compared to what comes the closest an Essex completely nerfed and getting a stupid BR and XP requirement for slots while butchered by the Dev's to not be able to tack against the wind , yes you are the single faction in game able to grow up when crushing a Nation, Nationals leaving go for the most part to pirates no matter what you try to pretend, yes you have now green on green and this is an advantage, beside making blind by sending him into a battle or simply killing a potential spy like no other Nation can do, ( or a big clan imposing his views on others by making the powder burn inside a faction ) and yes they can use the outlaw battles at will, where they want, when they want, no Nation can do this, there is no way to reunite a fleet and jump into the battle to catch them as they will have just sail away and be uncatchable, and even worse when they start the outlaw barely 30mn before the server shutdown for maintenance getting an immunity ticket allowed by the Dev's and able to log back many hours after the server restart in time for the operations planned... But heh apparently it's fine if pirates do this according to dev's tribunal, yet only pirates can do it that easily in game...

You don't have the BP's for SOL's ... yeah but what masquerade is this when the Dev's at the same time don't hard code any restriction in game to enforce this ??? oh yeah ... alt accounts are a nice income i guess ...  Bp's just are like any other book or upgrade on the market, a mercantile good that pirates can get either for cash or just from them alt accounts or alt clans ... when it's not entire clans working on other Nations to craft & buy ships of National markets and provide them directly, this is the reality of how things are done...

In the end it's easier and less risky to get BP's and permits than getting the best woods to craft a ship... what an impressive restriction ... not.

Pirates never acted as anything else than a regular Nation in this game, nor despites the green on green they attack themselves often, do they ?... and this even used to be punished by other pirates if one guy or one clan decided to go against the rule and attack another pirate. Pirates in game are just a Nation with extra advantages over the regular Nations, you can turn it all the way up and down but it's a fact, so why should they get special treatments or special features in game ??

Either they make them the hardcore mode the dev's  promised so many times, limiting them for what they can sail and this being hard coded in game with a crew limit restriction and then give them special raiding mechanics dedicated to Pirates only with no possibility of conquests like a regular Nation, but something different as counterpart or they give them the exact same rights and features as other Nations if they continue with pirates being able to do exactly he same as any other Nation in game, no bypass, no special feature, there is nothing that justify extra advantages for them in this last scenario, nothing at all.

I find it very funny to see how each time pirates try to minimize things, you are nothing else than a freaking Nation amongst others in game, doing the same exact things as other Nations ( and often doing better as more organized, but this isn't your "fault", props for that ) , you always had and still have advantages others don't have, you don't have any disadvantages as counterpart so stop the hypocrisy already, either play with the same rules as others, no special  features or restrictions, or let the dev's turn the tables and make pirates into real pirates...

It's the perfect occasion for this with the conquest changes, let them work on special raiding mechanics and maybe privateer ones, after all the Dev himself spoke of raiding in this thread so let's see what they will do for this, it's a problem they are reluctant to touch due to the large playerbase in this "Nation"  but it's been years now so it is time to get the things done and tested or they can just say they are fans of Johnny Depp & Disney stuff and give up on promises of hardcore mode and historical claims of this game, if so then they need to make pirates working exactly the same way as other Nations, with the same exact rules as others, no extras for what is only another Nation in game...

 

Edited August 10, 2017 by Kanay

[Farrago]

The first version of this proposal included different war companies from the same nation being able to attack each other. Like so many, I thought this was a bad idea. But lately I've been thinking that perhaps nations should have outlaw battles as well. Econ ALTS are apparently here to stay but nations have no way to police their own waters. Yes, some nations or clans may prey upon their own kind (especially the noobs) but some will not. Nations that don't support and integrate new players will pay the price. Nations or clans that  work to develop trust and support for noobs will benefit.

(Yes, I know this will make it possible for clans of ALTS to potentially take over a nation from within but at this point what do we have to lose.)

[Hodo]

21 minutes ago, Kanay said:

 

I find it very funny to see how each time pirates try to minimize things, you are nothing else than a freaking Nation amongst others in game, doing the same exact things as other Nations ( and often doing better as more organized, but this isn't your "fault", props for that ) , you always had and still have advantages others don't have, you don't have any disadvantages as counterpart so stop the hypocrisy already, either play with the same rules as others, no special  features or restrictions, or let the dev's turn the tables and make pirates into real pirates...

 

So well put I wish I could give a 1000+ likes on that one.  

You sir have said everything I have been ranting and raging about for months and you did it without using four letter swear words.

[jodgi]

34 minutes ago, Slamz said:

Is there any veteran who is not doing PvP

It's not vets we should worry about, mainly. Besides, you lecturing us about how cheap you think it is and others telling us to just cap a ship and confidently go to fight won't change a thing.

Getting cash is super, duper easy but also as boring (dare I say: for most players?).

I talked to one of our vets a few weeks ago. He had gone out for PvP out of spite, so I guess it's safe to say he turned off his risk assessment (imagine like a noob happily going out to shoot at ships). He's one of our better players but he went broke and went on to break his clan's bank as well. All good fun and an almost useless anecdote.

I think it still serves to illustrate that PvP is expensive (paid in utter boredom) unless you fight like an idiot: in capped ship, med guns, no mods and thus at quite a disadvantage. 

We can't really tell new guys to fight in gimped equipment, none of them are here to listen to our motivational speech anyway.

Clanning up, grouping up and ganking in crap equipment is also a very double edged sword.

There are many small things we can do that hopefully combined can make a change in player psychology. Prater recently wrote with unabashed positivity about how the cost can be adjusted and work, I was caught off guard and my heart fluttered with a tiny bit of hope.

Please tell me it's gonna be ok.

[Prater]

1 hour ago, Slamz said:

I keep hearing this argument but still don't believe it.

Is there any veteran who is not doing PvP because he can't afford to? He has lost too much and no longer has the time to build more ships?

How many people quit playing and still had 3-4 perfectly good ships sitting in dock? I don't think affordability has ever been the problem, at least not for OW PvP.

What does this have to do with veterans?  New players are the ones who are losing ships.  You make their entry into pvp impossible.  To get good at pvp you need hundreds of ships.  When the replacement of one takes several hours, that is an issue.  Before we had 5 durabilites, now we have one.  Blue print requirements should have been divided by 5 when this happened.  That did not happen, and so the cost of 1 durability has skyrocketed.  This hurts new players.

[jodgi]

5 minutes ago, Prater said:

What does this have to do with veterans?  New players are the ones who are losing ships.  You make their entry into pvp impossible.  To get good at pvp you need hundreds of ships.  When the replacement of one takes several hours, that is an issue.  Before we had 5 durabilites, now we have one.  Blue print requirements should have been divided by 5 when this happened.  That did not happen, and so the cost of 1 durability has skyrocketed.  This hurts new players.

Don't forget to include mod cost like you did in that other post, it makes me feel so much better. We can't pretend almost none of the new guys are competitive, right?

[Custard]

3 hours ago, koltes said:

That's a BS argument. Outlaw battle opens for full duration. Nationals can achieve exact same thing by attacking AI fleet and the battle will close in 3 minute.
Do you have any other real arguments? Question was HOW am I in advantage? Even in this example using Outlaw battle does not give ANY advantage. In fact it puts us in disadvantage in comparison.

"Largest nation because of reasons" means what exactly? First of all we are not largest nation. We are nation that have largest veterans base. We didnt get them because we are pirates. If BLACK were Spanish we would do exact same thing as a Spain. When I was recruiting I personally went around the server and cherry picked players who had the right attitude. This effort took months. How being a pirate helped me to do that? You are mixing up player's efforts and the game play. Whatever advantages we have now as pirates was hard earned by my clan. We were given nothing for free. Nothing that you didn't have

That is a one sided response from a Pirate

You are the largest faction because of game mechanics

I smell BS 

[Rhodry Heidenrich]

30 minutes ago, Slamz said:

I keep hearing this argument but still don't believe it.

Is there any veteran who is not doing PvP because he can't afford to? He has lost too much and no longer has the time to build more ships?

How many people quit playing and still had 3-4 perfectly good ships sitting in dock? I don't think affordability has ever been the problem, at least not for OW PvP.

 

Dunno about veteran players, but I could certainly see non-veteran players avoiding PvP due to lack of ability to efficiently replace losses or not having a stockpile of ships/cannons/repairs on hand. That's kind of the problem NA is having right now, is how many players pick up the game and then quit soon after, and one of the problems is PvP as it's working at the moment is a bit too punishing for new players.

 

 

 

[Tiedemann]

On 9.8.2017 at 11:18 AM, admin said:

Initial solution was to move un capturable ports to coasts

• Moving un capturable ports to the coasts and moving very profitable resources to the center will actually increase sailing times for many (who wish to venture into dangerous waters for profit or pvp)
• In addition to that repositioning of ports will drastically change existing gameplay and reposition resources and having done this before we believe that this might have a drastic adverse effect on play

I very much liked this idea. Then it would be safe-ish around the edge of the map where our home waters would be and that is needed for new players. And the closer you got towards the center of the map, the more risk/reward you would get. This would send traders there instantly and it could also help pinpoint good PvP hunting grounds, instead of the seal clubbing we have going on now. 
But for this to work it needs players in war ships sailing out towards the center of the map. If they do not, then we would still be forced to hunt around the enemy capitals for PvP. And if they are to safe, PvP would just die..

So to ensure it would work large enemy AI fleets must stop sailing around in capital home waters. After you reach a certain rank it should no longer be possible to get missions in home waters. So when you reach Flag Captain for example, missions would start to spawn in enemy territories towards the center of the map. Then we might get players to sail out side of their comfort zone at least.

On 9.8.2017 at 11:18 AM, admin said:

New player experience, seal clubbing and inability to progress
Once the average player have passed the initial hurdles of the UI and started building ships it is getting very hard to progress because he has no place to safely rebuild and survive. 

As a result we would like to discuss the alternative solution for discussion

• Capitals will remain in their current places
• Un-capturable ports will be set in the areas around the capitals (with the exception of sweden and denmark which will be set as very hard again during selection of the nation).

 

I like the idea, but I do not like that Sverige and Danmark-Norge are excluded. Our new players need a safe zone just as much as all the other nations. We are normally less players in Sverige and Danmark-Norge, compared to the other nations. So we have a smaller defensive fleet to protect our home waters. Our nations normally get a lot less new recruits than the other nations (this argument is based on a gut feeling), so I would say our precious few newbies need it even more!  

After each map reset Sverige and Danmark-Norge has to go out and take the same ports from the British, Spanish and Dutch as we have always done. It is not fun fighting those empty pbs in the beginning just to get "our home waters" back after a map reset. On the other side the Spanish and British have way to much territory to defend, so why can't the devs take a step away form the historically correct ideology, and accept that this is a game. Let it be based/inspired by real life history. Give the danish and swedish larger unconquerable core-territories so our new and casual players also get some breathing room. In my humble (maybe not) opinion the Danish should at least get the Virgin Islands region and the Swedish should at least get the Bovenwinds region.

Edited August 10, 2017 by Tiedemann

[Ser_Slack]

25 minutes ago, Rhodry Heidenrich said:

 

Dunno about veteran players, but I could certainly see non-veteran players avoiding PvP due to lack of ability to efficiently replace losses or not having a stockpile of ships/cannons/repairs on hand. That's kind of the problem NA is having right now, is how many players pick up the game and then quit soon after, and one of the problems is PvP as it's working at the moment is a bit too punishing for new players.

 

 

 

Been saying it for months - devs said it was going to be their focus. Haven't seen ANYTHING to address it. Seen plenty that'll only make the problem worse.

This is also Slamz que to berate these people for not having enough gumption or something. Which I guess includes about 99% of the people who've purchased the game.

[AngryPanCake]

6 hours ago, Hodo said:

It isnt denying them anything.  They can still play the game, and it would still be there.  It just wont be as big.  They will still have access to around 30%-40% of the ships in game.  If the developers arent going to be bothered to have aggressive AI on that server why bother with it outside of making it a training server.  

 

This is what I think should happen, I have a great suggestion:

It won't deny PvPer's anything. You can still play the game and it would still be there. It just won't be as big. We will limit the PvP area to just the Bahamas and everything else will become pure PvE. We should also limit the number of ships available to PvPer's to about 30-40% of the ships currently available in game. And, the devs should add aggressive AI, real aggressive AI in that small PvP area. Anyone leaving port will be chased down by AI fleets, fleets everywhere!

Now, I admit that what I just suggested is pretty idiotic, so much so I am truly feeling stupid just typing it. What do you think about what you suggested?

[Hodo]

19 minutes ago, AngryPanCake said:

This is what I think should happen, I have a great suggestion:

It won't deny PvPer's anything. You can still play the game and it would still be there. It just won't be as big. We will limit the PvP area to just the Bahamas and everything else will become pure PvE. We should also limit the number of ships available to PvPer's to about 30-40% of the ships currently available in game. And, the devs should add aggressive AI, real aggressive AI in that small PvP area. Anyone leaving port will be chased down by AI fleets, fleets everywhere!

Now, I admit that what I just suggested is pretty idiotic, so much so I am truly feeling stupid just typing it. What do you think about what you suggested?

The problem is that the PVE population is honestly the smallest population in this game.  AND with the fact that the AI is a joke until they make an aggressive OW AI to go on the PVE server.  It would best used as a training server for noobs.  I am not against making a larger "safe" zone around capitals that would give a place for PVE'rs to play on the PVP server and be part of the bigger picture without being on a dead server.  

It would also give people who are learning a safe place to learn without threat of being hunted to no end.

[AngryPanCake]

31 minutes ago, Hodo said:

The problem is that the PVE population is honestly the smallest population in this game.  AND with the fact that the AI is a joke until they make an aggressive OW AI to go on the PVE server.  It would best used as a training server for noobs.  I am not against making a larger "safe" zone around capitals that would give a place for PVE'rs to play on the PVP server and be part of the bigger picture without being on a dead server.  

It would also give people who are learning a safe place to learn without threat of being hunted to no end.

Please read my post here:

"The problem is that the PVE population is honestly the smallest population in this game."

But before you go, let me say this about the above misconceived statement:

This has never been a PROBLEM to any PvE player. I have no idea where the thought of this being a problem has come from. Population, or the lack thereof,  is a HUGE problem for PvP yes, everyone knows that, but from there to claim that the small PvE population is a problem is mind boggling to me. It is a problem to whom? What do small numbers on the PvE server have anything to do with PvP?

You are a very experienced PvP player and you should continue to focus your energy on improving PvP game play and fixing the issues plaguing the PvP servers and low population on the PvE server isn't one of them.

EDIT:

Since this is not a PvP vs PvE thread, I will refrain from further comments. I am not a PvP player so my contribution to the planned changes in clans/RvR for PvP will be useless and misplaced. As for the fate of or changes to the PvE server, the discussion should be taken elsewhere.

Edited August 10, 2017 by AngryPanCake

[Prater]

2 hours ago, Ser_Slack said:

Been saying it for months - devs said it was going to be their focus. Haven't seen ANYTHING to address it. Seen plenty that'll only make the problem worse.

This is also Slamz que to berate these people for not having enough gumption or something. Which I guess includes about 99% of the people who've purchased the game.

Admin said they will look at blue print reduction in the Testers forum, so it is on their list of things to do.

[Ser_Slack]

3 hours ago, Hodo said:

So well put I wish I could give a 1000+ likes on that one.  

You sir have said everything I have been ranting and raging about for months and you did it without using four letter swear words.

No one's been asking for pirate mechanics more then the pirates since early '16. Sadly I have my doubts whether any will be developed. A possibility would be to remove the player base from pirates and just make them aggressive ai on the open world. Keep USA - Brits - Spain - France as nations.

[Koltes]

What is this? I asked you for at least ONE fact that makes us ANY different and you have written a novel about Outlaw battles? Is this what its about? I suggest you try your pirate alt and test how this actually works before you make such statements and base your entire argument on some made up crap.

Read my lips! You CAN'T use Outlaw battle to run away. It has POSITIONING join. If you are chasing pirates and they started an outlaw battle the circle is so small you WILL jump right on top of them.
If you just sailed through the area and never actually KNEW that there are pirates started a fight like 30 minutes ago you will still see and BE ABLE to join their outlaw battle. Send 1 guy in side who will be able to tell you on which side to join the battle. You will then position yourself to jump RIGHT ON TOP of them! After 30 minutes battle has started. How hard is this to understand?

Do you want Green on Green in your nation? Seriously? I don't mind at all. HAVE IT! You just don't know what you are asking for.
In fact why do we have to have sides in the open world? Why cant players decide for themselves who they want to attack in the battle? It should be FFA no matter who attacked who and that's it. But that is a separate issue and discussion.

Ok let me get this straight so I can understand your logic. Pirates have the Outlaw Battle and can fight and kill each other and this is why Nations on the whole server (4 nations united to be exact) can't kill pirates? Is this is your excuse? HAHAHA!

We had Outlaw battles since End of April. That's 3.5 months. Pirates were killing your nations for over a year now. What was your excuse then???

We don't use Outlaw battle the way you have described. At all. We used it once in Savanna to test it and didnt like it. We are now attacking AI fleets like everybody else do since you cant jump to specific location in the battle from the outside and the battle closes in 3 minutes. But lately with the new Battle Group and tag circle we don't even need to do that. Every single time we sailed straight into PB and if you would care to show up you would be able to screen us out. You didn't.

I asked you to give me facts. Instead you poured lots of water into the ocean. Everything is so wishy washy. But let me break this down and please answer to each question.
I have played since the beginning of 2016 (for a yeah and a half) and my claim is that I have NEVER been in any advantage as pirate and I have definitely been in HUGE disadvantage as a pirate nation due to previous alliances.

 

8 hours ago, Kanay said:

Pirates since day one were advantaged in game, yes your ships used to sail faster
Which ships were available to pirates that are were not available to nationals? Names please.


yes you still have a dedicated ship completely outclassing what the Nationals have
Which ship do we have that is outclassing nationals?


as equivalent at them disposal, in terms of performances of BR and xp knowledge needed compared to what comes the closest an Essex completely nerfed and getting a stupid BR and XP requirement for slots while butchered by the Dev's to not be able to tack against the wind
Its not the ship that can't tack. Its the captain. If we can easily tack on SOLs your argument just proves the point that you cant play the game, but please go on.


yes you are the single faction in game able to grow up when crushing a Nation,
What makes us a single nation that is able to grow up? What? So you sit here in the corner crying that pirates winning NOT becuse they are better players, but because of some in-game advantages that you don't have. What are they? How do they apply?


Nationals leaving go for the most part to pirates no matter what you try to pretend
I don't need to pretend anything. People switch to pirates not because they are after some advantages in game mechanics. Because they are sick and tired of your nationals disorder and toxic chats. You can pretend that people fleeing your ship because of some non-existed advantages, but you better ask them if their gameplay is any different. They will tell you that its not the game play or mechanics that are different. Its the environment and experience that is created by us players. You keep blaming the cat that you didnt pass the exam lol.


yes you have now green on green and this is an advantage
We are talking about pirate winning over nationals. How is this an advantage that you are loosing your war? Green on green is used by us to sort out pirate issues among pirates. This is why we have so clean population. It has nothing to do with any RvR whatsoever.


beside making blind by sending him into a battle
Dont know what you mean here. Another assumption? You dont know how Outlaw battles work. Do your study before you make any claims.


or simply killing a potential spy like no other Nation can do
Oh so we killed couple of bold spies and this is why you are loosing the war? Pfffffffffffffffff....fffffffffffff 
What about 100s of your spies that we never know of?


(or a big clan imposing his views on others by making the powder burn inside a faction)
That is an accusation of us (BLACK) pushing the rest of the pirates around. Is this how I read it? Why don't you go and ask other pirate clans what they think of it? Clans like QF, FC, DEA etc. Yes we are dealing with dickheads just like the whole pirate nation. And we love it. Maybe this is why you are loosing? Because we send all those scumbags to your nations? LOL


and yes they can use the outlaw battles at will, where they want, when they want
Yes we can, How does this make you loosing your war?


no Nation can do this, there is no way to reunite a fleet and jump into the battle to catch them as they will have just sail away and be uncatchable,
I don't know what you are smoking. You ask French or GB guys that hunt in the Mort area. Did pirates used an outlaw battles to escape the chase? If they have how did it work out for them? You know nothing about outlaw battles. You sit here and make things up. Being in outlaw battle is completely the OPPOSITE of untouchable. You are in fact screwed if nationals catch you having an outlaw battle. You don't know this because you cant play the game.


and even worse when they start the outlaw barely 30mn before the server shutdown for maintenance getting an immunity ticket allowed by the Dev's and able to log back many hours after the server restart in time for the operations planned... But heh apparently it's fine if pirates do this according to dev's tribunal, yet only pirates can do it that easily in game...
I have a verdict for you Sir. You are an idiot.
I asked you how we are able to do something that you cant? You can do exact same thing by attacking another national player (which what French were doing hunting around Mort and its totally fine) or you can always attack an AI fleet that is always passing by and you have plenty of time to do that. Attacking AI fleet has much greater advantages than the Outlaw battle because it closes in 3 minutes not 1.5 hour. We did that many times before we had Outlaw battles introduced. Its a BS argument. You can do same thing as us. Nothing is stopping you to do exactly what you just described. NOTHING? Just your moaning and inability to organize.
As for need to do this? There is NONE. Yes anyone (including nation) could log out in battle and get back but we all had 30 min no join timer. Use whatever IQ you have and understand already that if we log in we cant join for 30 min and are EXPOSED for 30 min sitting in the OW and can be attacked by screeners for all these 30 minutes. Screeners that you no longer bring because now you actually have to fight and this one thing that you cant do, hence why all this made up BS and excuses.
I also have news for you. If you log off in the battle it kicks you out in the OW now and 2 min timer kicks in. Its awesome! We love it! Thank you devs!
What did you say again about logging off camping?

 

You don't have the BP's for SOL's ... yeah but what masquerade is this when the Dev's at the same time don't hard code any restriction in game to enforce this ??? oh yeah ... alt accounts are a nice income i guess ...  Bp's just are like any other book or upgrade on the market, a mercantile good that pirates can get either for cash or just from them alt accounts or alt clans ... when it's not entire clans working on other Nations to craft & buy ships of National markets and provide them directly, this is the reality of how things are done...
Exactly! So having an ability to craft a pirate frigate as a pirate is pirate advantage even though its also not hard coded and nationals also use alts to get it? But somehow this same logic doesn't work when you speak of nationals having an advantage... Hmm maybe this give NO advantage to either side because BOTH sides have access to everything? Again, me as a pirate is not having anything that you cant have as a national.

 

Pirates never acted as anything else than a regular Nation in this game, nor despites the green on green they attack themselves often, do they ?
Yes we do, but not as often as you describe and for different reasons. Whats your point in regards how it makes you losing your pathetic war?


... and this even used to be punished by other pirates if one guy or one clan decided to go against the rule and attack another pirate.
Yup and we love it! We don't mind when pirates do their own thing. But as pirates we have pirate lore. Do not steal from another pirate and do not attack other pirates or you will be killed on sight by the whole pirate nation (not just BLACK).
Nationals CANT attack each other anyway so no worry there for you even if someone wants to. Is your national fellow jumps your mission to loot your kills you can give them the warning and if they continue you can fire at them and you will not be punished for that. No different than pirates.
Explain please how does the above makes you lose wars?


Pirates in game are just a Nation with extra advantages over the regular Nations, you can turn it all the way up and down but it's a fact, so why should they get special treatments or special features in game ??
You are making an empty statement.
Please LIST the advantages that I have over you that allows my nation to kill your nation. What this "special" treatment is? Can you elaborate on this? I dont need another bucket of water from your poured into the ocean. Just pure list of facts.
I remember when we used leaks mechanics to sink national ships in one broadside and were called cheaters for a long time until nationals learned how to do it and finally understood that it was a game mechanic that was ALSO available to them, but they didnt know how to use it.


 

Either they make them the hardcore mode the dev's  promised so many times, limiting them for what they can sail
So the only way you can win is by going to this arena and strip us from the same weapons that you have. Right? You want us to have knives against your machine guns. Right? Whatta hero


and this being hard coded in game with a crew limit restriction and then give them special raiding mechanics dedicated to Pirates only with no possibility of conquests like a regular Nation, but something different as counterpart or they give them the exact same rights and features as other Nations if they continue with pirates being able to do exactly he same as any other Nation in game, no bypass, no special feature, there is nothing that justify extra advantages for them in this last scenario, nothing at all.
I have some news for you. We dont have pirates in this game. Pirate in NA is just a made up fictional nation with a black flag. The moment you change that flag to Portugal for example everything would jump to its place. LOL

 

I find it very funny to see how each time pirates try to minimize things, you are nothing else than a freaking Nation amongst others in game, doing the same exact things as other Nations ( and often doing better as more organized, but this isn't your "fault", props for that ) ,
It is what it is. Having Outlaw battles that is truly something that you cant do as a national doesn't give us a single advantage in RvR. Only in sorting out our internal issues. That is all. You can believe what you want. Keep making ship up. Until you stop, think, look around, ask yourself the right and hard questions who's fault it is that your nation cant perform? You will never find the real reason why you are loosing. This is what millennials do. They just never learned to take responsibility.


you always had and still have advantages others don't have, you don't have any disadvantages as counterpart so stop the hypocrisy already, either play with the same rules as others, no special  features or restrictions, or let the dev's turn the tables and make pirates into real pirates...
You ALWAYS never existed. Can you remind me what did we have ALWAYS as advantage over you? I can remind you alliances that would allow 3 biggest nations on the server (each larger than pirates) to unite and participate in PBs together while pirates were always at war with everyone and could not ally even with their friends from other nations. That was hard coded restriction on pirates. This was when we 1 ported GB and before that nearly 1 ported US (11 ports left to take out of 200+). What was your excuse there?
The biggest hypocrite here is you.
 

It's the perfect occasion for this with the conquest changes, let them work on special raiding mechanics and maybe privateer ones, after all the Dev himself spoke of raiding in this thread so let's see what they will do for this, it's a problem they are reluctant to touch due to the large playerbase in this "Nation"  but it's been years now so it is time to get the things done and tested or they can just say they are fans of Johnny Depp & Disney stuff and give up on promises of hardcore mode and historical claims of this game, if so then they need to make pirates working exactly the same way as other Nations, with the same exact rules as others, no extras for what is only another Nation in game...
There is no running away. BLACK have always been into RvR, PBs, big fights etc. If we will be denied this as pirates we will switch to other nation like Spain and fk you up all the same. I wonder what will be your excuses then.

 

 

Have a good night! 

Edited August 11, 2017 by koltes

[Rhodry Heidenrich]

I think the ship Kanay is talking about is the "Pirate Frigate", which for some reason has different XP requirements to unlock upgrade slots than the standard Frigate. As for what makes the Pirate Frigate better than the Frigate in combat, can't say. Is it the increased crew count? Does it still have its built in boarding bonus?  Don't know much about that particular ship since the last time I sailed one was probably 8 months ago. 

 

[Koltes]

2 minutes ago, Rhodry Heidenrich said:

I think the ship Kanay is talking about is the "Pirate Frigate", which for some reason has different XP requirements to unlock upgrade slots than the standard Frigate. As for what makes the Pirate Frigate better than the Frigate in combat, can't say. Is it the increased crew count? Does it still have its built in boarding bonus?  Don't know much about that particular ship since the last time I sailed one was probably 8 months ago. 

 

I figured it too, but regardless of what P.frig has its available to nationals the same way just like 1st rate BPs are. Throught the alts or trading. End results anyone who wants it will have it. 

[Rhodry Heidenrich]

Just now, koltes said:

I figured it too, but regardless of what P.frig has its available to nationals the same way just like 1st rate BPs are. Throught the alts or trading. End results anyone who wants it will have it. 

Oh, I know. Which is why I'm not really following why he's brought it up a couple of times. As you say, all it takes to get one is to trade for it. 

[Sir Texas Sir]

16 hours ago, Quineloe said:

Right now you have players sailing back and forth between capitals (with one of them obviously being hostile!) without a care in the world, making profits each trip, simply because they can play when there are only 100 players online.
 

Right before and after server maintance is the best time to hunt.  For that exact reason.  Maybe the mergere would be good cause it would give me a few more ships to hunt.  The sad thing is most these guys use the same routes every day but they figure if they get 9 out of 10 trips through it's profitable to them, even if they get 50% of them through.

16 hours ago, Peter Goldman said:

Also... We all know that traders with cargos worth millions or players transporting best PB ships do it right before and after maintenance, for 100% safety. As it's hard to get them (some of my friends managed to cap Indiamen worth 3-4m each for example), you have limited time until server shuts down. Another factor is that population is like 100 players online, so it's almost risk-free. One will get caught and other 50 will succeed. With the PvP Global population, they would fill that gap of empty server at night and mornings for us with US and Aussie players, thus making it less safe voyage and will balance everything more

Like I said above it's some of the best hunting times after server down time. I tend to keep more of an AUS time (I'm US player living in Texas) so I'm normally still up at this time. I'll be honest it's when I do my heavy trade runs too and than I go hunting the guys that are doing them too.  

16 hours ago, Quineloe said:

No, because you took out gold / exp for damage.
The most fundamental change you've done to PVP in my opinion.
Win - Loss - Draw -> Battle Report: No Rewards is the most frustrating thing people complain about in my experience. They'd rather see no message at all.

No xp for damage was taken out cause of folks exploiting it with alts.  Well we now have expensive ships and no rewards for an hour to make up for folks that abuse the system.  XP (and only xp) for Damage should return.  Keep the Gold and Marks according to your Kills/Assist, but folks need to get rewards even if they sink or loose a fight.  New players that help bigger players need to get some reward.  You have one guy in a big ship doing all the damage its hard for new players and smaller ships to ever make xp/rewards cause of that.   It seems a lot of folks have been asking for this back to help the lower level and new players and not to mention it helps with the ship knowledge grind.  Some of the higher level ships are still insane amount of XP to unlock when you get past the first few slots.  Even more insane if you ever look at the SOL's.

11 hours ago, The Red Duke said:

You mean start as neutrals and cannot interact in any way with other "factions" ? Live a true PvE layer until rank 4 ?

This wouldn't be good cause it can be abused by folks with alts that keep a low level to haul every thing.  I'm sorry I was in PvP like day one (well more like month one cause I sucked bad at day one).   We have had some guys in low level ships just kick arse from the start and they shouldn't be held back.  Maybe just make the capital safe zones bigger for the big nations adn let them have that zone to level up.  I think they should keep the low level missions thing for capital and than make all other missions hostility missions that have to be taken in other regions than your capital.   Make that cut off at level 3-4.  Maybe add some more bigger fleets that relate to the regions to that you can group up and go kill. 

10 hours ago, Vizzini said:

I'm ignorant in the ways and rules of the game, but are there things the nationals can do and the Pirates cannot and vice versa . I know outlaw battle is something they can do , are there others ? I don't mean things that can be easily sorted with alts ..

People often bring up, we're or you're the biggest Nation, but do we know this for a fact or are we portraying our perception as fact when it's not entirely true ?

Seems to be a lot of facts churned out which are only opinions , not helpful for  a reasonable debate

This is one of the reasons I been hounding Devs to get a tally of the servers for the players.  They should of done this a month after the patch and than a month or so again.  Each time they added new forge papers we should of gotten something like they did back in March.  When this came out it told a different story than what certain two very high pop nation was telling every one about the PvP2 population.  While these numbers where only the folks that logged in and can't tell you the RvR/PvP population of a nation, but any one can be apart of PvP/RvR if they want.  Even the carebear traders that never been in a fight and only trades can pick up the cause and go defend a port.  I would love to see how these numbers are now, but sadly they will be off from what they where a month or two go cause of many folks stop playing and going to do other things.

9 hours ago, Hodo said:

Funny didnt seem that way at PaP a few weeks ago.   Let me see... BLOOD, BLACK, HYDRA, GS6, and a few others.  Sounds like more than ONE, UNO, EIN clan.  

Pirates have the one thing you listed and one unintended feature.  

The outlaw battle mechanic is a way for the stronger larger clans to enforce their will on the smaller less powerful clans.  Which BLACK has done.  

The unintended mechanic is they can use this outlaw battle mechanic can be used to attack NPC Pirate fleets in a region that is under threat to greatly prolong hostility grinds.  

Since your not a Pirate I'll let you know we have not crushed little clans to make them do our will.  The only clan BLACK has crushed was HELL and since most of the suspected members ran off to join TF in US and than follow them to GB  our suspesion of them being US/GB spy's alts was prob true.  Even than when they attacked a none clan trader the rest of the nation jumped in and KOS any members that stayed around until they left the clan (many did the first hour and are still pirates to this day GS6 was formed by one).  We currently have one pirate that is on nation KOS.  BLACK didn't vote this, this was called up and voted on by all the other clans.  We sat back and let them do this cause we want a healthy nation and you have to let the other clans do things too.  There was no nahs in the Nation chat.  You saw nothing but AYE"s about putting him on perm KOS.  He's giving out info in global chat about our numbers and sitting int he safety of the Green zone in front of the capital so even FFA fights can't be used to stop him.  Though we are hopping enough reports will get his chat privileges removed since he's being an open spy for US/GB.  Again this was a vote by the Pirate Republic on the spot just as a pirate Nation should do and not some silly congress or what ever the other nations big clans have that meet once a week and vote on things.   Pirates has all ways been about doing things on the fly.  Yes my clan plans things out but they never go the way they are plan.  Any one who's served in the military knows the best laid out plans goes out the windows when the first shot is fired.

So before you say some one has done something or another you might want to learn what is actually going on instead of just guessing.

9 hours ago, Slamz said:

I keep hearing this argument but still don't believe it.

Is there any veteran who is not doing PvP because he can't afford to? He has lost too much and no longer has the time to build more ships?

How many people quit playing and still had 3-4 perfectly good ships sitting in dock? I don't think affordability has ever been the problem, at least not for OW PvP.

It's like when we took one port from the US (even pre-patch and they had 20 others) and they still had a bunch of others, "OMG THE PIRATES HAVE ONE PORTED US."  Wait we took a port, you have like 10 others, how the hell is that one ported?  Than they log off and stop playing and don't even try to fight to get them back.  Funny how when every one was taking those empty ports from Spain and you could only get the Conquest Marks from being at them we saw like 50-70 players fighting to get into those port battles.  They only show when they don't have to use there cannons it seems.  I thought that system honestly was way better than the current Victory Mark system.  When we took Bermuda that morning before the port battle we had some one watching and they took  out over a dozen first rates to head back to the east coast.  Those where only the ones we saw leave.  The guys have ships, they just don't want to use them in a fight.  I really want to know what they do with all there resources and gold.  Ya'll are pretty much down to two ports and aren't running out of ships but you are fighting.  It's the same way when Pirates was down to one or two regions.  You actually fight better cause you don't have to worry about defending ports/regions.  YOu can just go out and have fun and do your own thing.

1 hour ago, Rhodry Heidenrich said:

I think the ship Kanay is talking about is the "Pirate Frigate", which for some reason has different XP requirements to unlock upgrade slots than the standard Frigate. As for what makes the Pirate Frigate better than the Frigate in combat, can't say. Is it the increased crew count? Does it still have its built in boarding bonus?  Don't know much about that particular ship since the last time I sailed one was probably 8 months ago. 

 

What I think is funny is I see more Nationals Using the Pirate Frigate than I do pirates.  I get folks paging me all the time if I can get them the permit or make them one and they will pay a lot for them and it's not fellow pirates that are paging this.   I haven't checked the xp slot thing, but when it was still part of the tree it had way higher requirements than the frigate did.   I'll be making one for a 5th rate PvP ship for DEAD soon so I'll test that out and compare it with the others that have unlocked the normal frigate.   The only pluss it has is more crew, the moral boost in boarding and bigger top deck gun, but if you run the bigger guns the speed is prettty much lost it gets over the normal frigate.  Don't forget it has less HP than the normal frigate.  Other wise all the other states are the same.