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Preliminary discussion of the changes to conquest - clan wars are coming


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11 minutes ago, Captain Lust said:

Yes, and i want greenzones for noobs.... and at the same time more reward for pvp so they have a reason to come out when they ranked up / got fat... i didn't say anything against greenzones...

Yes. Wee need green zones and a very good reason (money, and/or goods) to sail out.

I remember an online game having a simple idea. Two realms and at the special times an event to craft goods for selling with good profit. That was a real PvP Hotspot. The players organized themself in the green area start sailing their ships towards there. Much fights on the way to and much more fights at the hotspot. If you could craft some valuable goods without get killed start sailing the dangerous way back to home. A simple design as this:

 

 

Unbenannt.JPG

Edited by Sven Silberbart
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Hello Captains. We would like to share some information on the potential changes to conquest.  Current Problems New player experience is uneven and heavily depends on the nation you join.

current system does not work. If player joins spain on PVP Global he leaves like in 1-2 days. Because he sees that he can never win. Basic game design rule - if perceived chance to win the game is 0 t

another statement on the wipe There will be no wipe. only map reset. In fact there might be no wipes any more even on release. But its not a promise. 

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8 minutes ago, Sir Texas Sir said:

Doesn't work that way cause you don't know who's a noob and who isn't and I'm sorry by 4-5th Rank you are getting into the ships that you have known the basics of the game. If anything the noobies are the 1-3 ranks only, but if I want to be an evil baby seal clubber I would just make a new char and keep him low level.  Ever time he level out of the noobie zone I just delete him and make a new one. I use to keep one char on games low level to help run new players through first parts of games.  That char was tanked out and maxed out for the newbie zones every time cause I ran a lot of folks.  When they got to high I just delete and make a new one.   Not to mention the best way for them to learn is to go out with other clan members/players to teach them the ropes.

I could see it being only rank 3, as long as there are guides in game to show you how to play. @Jeheilhas some good ones, just toss them in. 

As for the seal clubbing issue, I hate to say it but you are probably right. I'm sure some lowlife will get a kick out of owning noobs. Maybe set us a pvp as no lose of ships or hold. Just respawn in own when done. In short they get a "safe place" and to learn pvp. 

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10 minutes ago, admin said:

With all variety of choices we will pick the simplest solution solving the problem. You will just set your friendly clans who can enter your portbattles. National unity will remain intact, clans will still fight for the nation.

The problem @admin is we needed this solution at the start of the wipe...or before that.  Population numbers are down and port battles aren't happening.  This change doesn't matter anymore.  We need a way to bring life back into the game and this small change won't do it.  Most nations don't even have 5 clans, let alone 15.....that play RVR.  

People were hopeful for the War Companies idea because it was a NEW system.  Not a revision to an old one that doesn't work.  This game is desperately in need of something NEW, not more of the same.

We fight over the same old ports in the same old ships and still have to grind NPCs to create content.  It's boring.  Give us something we haven't seen before.  Like raids for example.....

Edited by Christendom
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8 minutes ago, Louis Garneray said:

I spent an evening fighting in group and got almost no reward because I was in Renommee taking care of enemy sails. :D

I remember when I made my second char and he was Spain just to have some fun since my main was a pirate. I was out hunting brits in front of KPR and the pirates come a long.  It was my clan mates and they didn't know that was my alt.  Well some brits jump me and they join my side to help me.  So after that I figure with my little rattlesnake I was just 6ranked into 120 to crew I would help the.  We tagged a Brit Bucc and it ran. I ran that bastard down and shot the crap out of it's sales until the Pirates caught up.  I made a level and half off that kill cause my sail damage was more than any other damage since they boarded and captured it.   That is how one ranks up by damage done not just your Assist and Kill.  Shortly after that I rolled him Pirate to be my light/shallow char.   He ranked up purely on Port battles and OW PvP until I got to Devil and grind a bunch of missions in a 2nd rate to make Curse.  

SO yah some folks can level purly on PvP, but they can't with the current rewards system.

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1 minute ago, Wraith said:

But we've proven that imbalances in nation populations is untenable time after time. Maintaining the rigid nation-based RvR at the region-flipping scale, while fracturing it's implementation among the active clans of that nation, will never work. And definitely not without implementing some kind of way to solve intranational conflict (ala free-for-all, black-on-black battles).

 

we solve nation population imbalances by safe uncapturable ports

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People will join Brits or Pirates because they want to be in those nations for their reasons. Populations wont change drastically

Also to those saying increase the gold rewards for PvP. What will be the point of collecting the taxes from the ports you own when you can get multple times more gold just by sinking a player. Ports actually will have some value now. If we want to be extreme, remove gold rewards completely or make em really small.

Edited by Sella22
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3 minutes ago, Christendom said:

People were hopeful for the War Companies idea because it was a NEW system.  Not a revision to an old one that doesn't work.  This game is desperately in need of something new, not more of the same.

Yah we all ready came up with THE BLACK COMPANY for the one we where going to make with half a dozen pirate clans ready to join into the Company.

One thing the game needs among every thing folks have been bringing up is proper Pirate Mechanics so they are just another bastard nation or just make us Privateers with option to help other nations and the guys that don't get LoM are the true Outlaws/Pirates.  Though we are never going to see anything like this....

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1 hour ago, admin said:

Well we tried to create many reasons to sail out of the safe zone. 
All features - all design before was focused on - How can we make a player a target more often. Which was loved by pvp players. But the majority left.

Problem is theres only one place to go when you want to find a fight: infront of enemy capital. But there are most new players and casuals.

So there is no option to fight versus other PvP players reliably. This means its boring for PvE guy getting ganked over and over again and boring for the PvP guy because theres no challenge.

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37 minutes ago, Captain Lust said:

Pretty much here. I suggested higher reward for pvp because pve is way more profitable and without risk and you dropped this bullcrap in response?

Look. I have been in a shit ton of port battles and open world battles. I dueled people like @TommyShelby, @HachiRoku, @Silfarion, @Liquicity and had great fun in these battles. Is it that what you want to hear?

I want to play Naval Action with my clan mates and have a good time. Maybe we have some laughs in a mission, maybe we sail around the OW to GET SOME PVP - last time I did this, enemy decided to run, despite the fact them having double the numbers, btw.

And then there come some guys who think pvp is the only way and everybody else should bend the knee to their opinion. It's always the same, in every online game. PVPers want to create a game that fits their playstle and the rest is just carebears.

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51 minutes ago, admin said:

Remember that NO reason will force you sail out of the safe zone - because you lose everything multiple times on the way out of that zone. 
So even if you promise 100mln opportunity it will be only exploited by organized groups. Average players will just lose ships trying to do that delivery order. 

You made the economy to support big groups and alts.  Even multiple repair kits is supporting big groups.  As in a big group some of you can repair your ship while others are keeping them busy.  More realistic, free for all rules are not always the best imo.

USA attacked Iraq because it was far superior in everything.  This is real life, but would not make the best game.

You made upgrades to be expensive, HC players will have those, new players will never have those?  You made it even easier for HC players to kick noobs?

I have said you many times that you need artificial rules.  You created nice signaling perk, which you should have tested as a permanent state as well.  Signaling was a good idea, gives better PvP, decreases zerg and gank.

At some point our Dear friend Lord Vicious went to play a new game called Albion Online.  It has OW PvP as well and one of the biggest reasons why so many cry is -> Zerg and Gank PvP.  People are leaving because PvP is f*ed up and economy is huge grind.  They have the same issues as you have right now.

I believe, but do not know...   People like light economy, but once they have everything in the game they want something more expensive.  It is good to start wanting something ridiculously expensive when you can afford it and the rest cannot.  I do not recommend to follow this line of development.  At least that something expensive should not be dramatic buff to your performance.  Your upgrades btw. give high buffs.

One scenario to think...  When a noob gets his Trincomalee and takes duel vs HC gamer -> His ship is not as good as HC gamers, but he still has a good change to win.

...

Plenty of reason...

I said long time ago that it would be nice to have some escort PvP mission.  Everyone is now thinking that yes, that would be cool.  Escort some ship full of gold and fight of other players, or the opposite.  In real life it will be 5 frigate escorts vs 25x 1st rates.  Then everyone comes on your face saying that your game sucks.

The only way to make content like this is -> Artificial rules.

If we still had those 5 dura ships, it would be way easier to make those artificial rules.  1dura ships have their benefits as well. But...

 

Artificial rules:

1. Escort fleet will be protected X minutes after every attack.

2. Only certain BR/Rate can attack

3. Escorts select 3 ships per player for this mission, you can lose your ship max 3 times, after that your fleet is weakened permanently.

4. Distance to escort should be so that max 3 attacks can be done.

5. Other players should be informed that there will be escorted gold ship.

(I just wrote these here, not promising these to work, it is an example to give idea)

OR

We can just play zerg and gank that most people hate.  No reasons to leave safe zones. GG

...

You can consider making global artificial rules.  For example, options...

- Max 6vs6 in OW.

- You cannot attack your target if your BR is greater than X

- Signaling perk for all + more uneven the battle, further people can see it.  6vs1 gank, and people from far can join to help.

- etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc..................... etc................

OR

Absolutely nothing can be done and we are doomed to fail and forever gank and zerg!!!  NoooOOoo!!

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Players already have escorts with the fleet perk. You can have multiple escorts in fact for dirt cheap. Do you think anyone will catch your trader if those 2-3 mercury in your fleet are set to demast your persuer? 

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7 hours ago, admin said:
  • Extremely profitable trading resources will be removed from the un-capturable ports and placed in capturable ports to provide profitable trading, privateering and potential taxation base.

 

What are extremely profitable trading resources? I've spent half an hour looking at numbers in the trader tool this week, and the best I can come up with are like 75k per trip in an LGV. I can make that kind of money in less time by running rank 4 missions.

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One more thing..  My escort PvP mission is just an example, I am sure if you ask people can invent plenty of things to do in PvP zone.

You could also consider something like this...

Clan captures port A, they want to craft fort and towers for it. They need slaves to build it.  They make an order for slaves, which will create slave transportation PvP mission.  People try to transport slaves while other try to stop them, and 3rd group will try to attack attackers before they attack the transport fleets.  (edit: Idea is that you can even have PvP missions created by player needs)

You still need some artificial rules to be applied to make any scenario to work.  If you do not have artificial rules, I am 100% sure it will be zerg and gank.

Port Battles, for these you have already artificial rules set.  These have rate limits and no more than 25vs25.  Granted, you could have even better rate/br limits implemented, but you have artificial rules here.  You have more questions to ask how to make "Plenty" of reasons?

Edited by Cmdr RideZ
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Dear devs, I would just ask you for one thing. If you're copying solutions from other games, either copy them 1 to 1, or instead of copying as much solution as possible, actually analyze what goals that solution is answering. Copy goals, not the solution itself. Copying solution simply won't work. We'll just loose time...

If you copy goals well and propose your own best solutions, relevant to Naval Action experience and based on knowledge that you received in the last 2 years, it might actually work.

Edited by vazco
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7 minutes ago, Captain Lust said:

Interesting... care to elaborate? What is my attitude?

No, you clearly just want to argue and that's not the point of this thread.  Recognize that PVE is a necessary element of the PVP world.  It's integral to it and necessary.  Devs are trying to balance it so everyone can enjoy their experience here.  They want to discuss their ideas and ours for how to make it happen.  Telling someone to go to the pve server because you want to determine how others play does nothing to balance those two elements on the pvp servers, nor does it get us closer to solving the issues.

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1 hour ago, Sven Silberbart said:

Yes. Wee need green zones and a very good reason (money, and/or goods) to sail out.

I remember an online game having a simple idea. Two realms and at the special times an event to craft goods for selling with good profit. That was a real PvP Hotspot. The players organized themself in the green area start sailing their ships towards there. Much fights on the way to and much more fights at the hotspot. If you could craft some valuable goods without get killed start sailing the dangerous way back to home. A simple design as this:

 

 

Unbenannt.JPG

Also +1

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More PVP?      I think  the penalty for losing a ship in combat is too steep for a lot of people to risk PVP Combat. The grind up is hard and a ship loss can be a huge setback, even a mid level PVP minded person is out of action for a period of time while re-tooling.(consequently, willing PVP' er not PVP'ing)

In other PVP warship games, you lose, but not your ship. People will fight PVP more if it's not a full time job replacing ships.

Maybe no dura's on ships, or certain ships, is an answer. Now before the flaying begins, I understand this eff's up open world some  and I know a combat only game is coming soon, but I think if you want more PVP in the open world the penalty for losing in battle needs to be dramatically smaller.

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1 hour ago, AxIslander said:

Aparently, your type of play chased away 10000 players allready,(numbers according to admin). and all u think of is we need more rewards for pvp to chase away the rest of the players.

 

6 minutes ago, Jean Ribault said:

They want to discuss their ideas and ours for how to make it happen.  Telling someone to go to the pve server because you want to determine how others play does nothing to balance those two elements on the pvp servers, nor does it get us closer to solving the issues

Read what he commented, please. My "type of play" is PvP.... on the PvP server ( it doesnt mean sealclubbing ) . If anything the increased reward for pvp will increase activity of real pvp players on the pvp server = more content and not chase them away. This guy clearly wants to play only pve and ended up on the wrong server, so i gave him helpful advice. If he actually wanted to play pvp too he would want increased rewards for it since it takes way more time and risk to get a good pvp fight over a npc mission. We have a PvE server for a reason. Can you comprehend?

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9 minutes ago, ShereKhan said:

but I think if you want more PVP in the open world the penalty for losing in battle needs to be dramatically smaller.

And / or the reward much higher but here come the mission jockeys crying out loud... God forbid pvp is actually worthwhile compared pve on the pvp server. Lets just all sit in our bot missions grinding pve like in some lobby game, only sail in OW to enjoy the scenery and the let PvP players wait for NA Legends...

Edited by Captain Lust
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17 minutes ago, ShereKhan said:

More PVP?      I think  the penalty for losing a ship in combat is too steep for a lot of people to risk PVP Combat. The grind up is hard and a ship loss can be a huge setback, even a mid level PVP minded person is out of action for a period of time while re-tooling.(consequently, willing PVP' er not PVP'ing)

In other PVP warship games, you lose, but not your ship. People will fight PVP more if it's not a full time job replacing ships.

Maybe no dura's on ships, or certain ships, is an answer. Now before the flaying begins, I understand this eff's up open world some  and I know a combat only game is coming soon, but I think if you want more PVP in the open world the penalty for losing in battle needs to be dramatically smaller.

It is when your starting out, I'll agree, but once your established or have a clan that can support you its not a big deal. I have 14 ship slots currently and they are full. I think we need PvP to be easy to find and more importantly, worth it. You don't really get anything but a chance at loosing a ship right now. Make PvP profitable and plentiful and people would flock to it.

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