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Preliminary discussion of the changes to conquest - clan wars are coming


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2 minutes ago, Cmdr RideZ said:

 

B. There has to be plenty of reasons to sail out from the safe zone.  Plenty.

 

Ah this. 

Well we tried to create many reasons to sail out of the safe zone. 
All features - all design before was focused on - How can we make a player a target more often. Which was loved by pvp players. But the majority left.

Remember that NO reason will force you sail out of the safe zone - because you lose everything multiple times on the way out of that zone. 
So even if you promise 100mln opportunity it will be only exploited by organized groups. Average players will just lose ships trying to do that delivery order. 

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Hello Captains. We would like to share some information on the potential changes to conquest.  Current Problems New player experience is uneven and heavily depends on the nation you join.

current system does not work. If player joins spain on PVP Global he leaves like in 1-2 days. Because he sees that he can never win. Basic game design rule - if perceived chance to win the game is 0 t

another statement on the wipe There will be no wipe. only map reset. In fact there might be no wipes any more even on release. But its not a promise. 

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1 minute ago, Eleven said:

If the game becomes purely PvE, why exactly do you develop these kind of things? We could just close down both PvP server and all play happily on PvE-server.

The pve ships are only around capitals, how is that moving the game to pure pve? You can still pvp away from the capitals. 

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3 minutes ago, Intrepido said:

The game dont need radical changes every patch. Every patch the playerbase have to learn a new game, this is not good, not good at all.

This cycle of "I develop one thing and 3 weeks after I throw all to the bin" has to stop.

Devs have to made small steps to reach to the right balance through tweaks and tunnings of systems that can work.

I can agree with tweaks and minor changes when the system is close on working, but RvR at the moment is far from working and is actually driving people away. They got rid of alliances for a reason which most agreed was right, yet you want them to reintroduce them, You may as well just have 2 nations in the game for people to choose from. Alliances if they are reintroduced need to be dynamic and constantly changing rather than the static alliances we had before.

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1 minute ago, Intrepido said:

Please Chris.

Tell us about your server success in spliting your playerbase among all the nations, your fake wards, how your guys leave US and joined GB...

 

Your guys arent an example of anything. Dont you see yet?

The US has/had a large enough population to conduct RVR and still does.  GB did not have a large enough fleet during the US time zones and we switched over to join up with some of our PVP1 friends.  The nation didn't really matter, but they were all in the brits.  It's a good thing that we did go GB because the 2 clans that switched over from the US are now 2 of the largest contributors to the main GB RVR fleet.  Looks like our nation transfer actually balanced the server out.  You can thank us later :-)

Anyway, think past the 2ft in front of your nose and realize that this game is too small for multiple servers.  A merge must happen to keep it going.  What do you say @admin?

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1 minute ago, admin said:

Ah this. 

Well we tried to create many reasons to sail out of the safe zone. 
All features - all design before was focused on - How can we make a player a target more often. Which was loved by pvp players. But the majority left.

Remember that NO reason will force you sail out of the safe zone - because you lose everything multiple times on the way out of that zone. 
So even if you promise 100mln opportunity it will be only exploited by organized groups. Average players will just lose ships trying to do that delivery order. 

That goes into the risk rewards, pvp players that lose a battle should get something for it. 

At the same time it's a balance of pve and pvp. Create content that the pve player wants and is willing to risk their ship to get. That will attract pvpers on both sides. 

You already said it would be a focus at some point. Maybe it's time to move it up the list? 

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33 minutes ago, Peter Goldman said:

then I DEMAND PVP EU SERVER TO BE SHUT DOWN DURING NIGHT AND MORNINGS / AFTERNOONS WHEN I SLEEP / WORK / STUDY. 

You forgot the /s. Some people here are so egocentric and delusional they wont be able to tell it's sarcasm...

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8 minutes ago, Daguse said:

That goes into the risk rewards, pvp players that lose a battle should get something for it. 

At the same time it's a balance of pve and pvp. Create content that the pve player wants and is willing to risk their ship to get. That will attract pvpers on both sides. 

You already said it would be a focus at some point. Maybe it's time to move it up the list? 

Lets be honest
Lets imagine a new player. He just got his captain rank. He wants to pvp eventually but he wants to get some foothold first.

What is the risk/reward for a unexperienced player sailing solo in his cerberus or LGV from KPR to Hispaniola near la navasse?
Even if he gets 100 mln for that SUPER DUPER IMAGINARY mission. Do you think he will get to it? 
Even with the free ships.. do you think he will sail there after 3rd sinking?

 

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2 minutes ago, admin said:

Lets be honest
Lets imagine a new player. He just got his captain rank. He wants to pvp eventually but he wants to get some foothold first.

What is the risk/reward for a unexperienced player sailing solo in his cerberus or LGV from KPR to Hispaniola near la navasse?

 

you are implying that a newb has any hope without a clan....you cant talk about newbs pvping when you can't even make it so they can get past a basic cutter with out quitting..

 

there is no solo...you already made that change

Edited by Fastidius
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5 minutes ago, admin said:

Lets be honest
Lets imagine a new player. He just got his captain rank. He wants to pvp eventually but he wants to get some foothold first.

What is the risk/reward for a unexperienced player sailing solo in his cerberus or LGV from KPR to Hispaniola near la navasse?

I think all you have to do is increase the reward for pvp to a point where noobs can still make progress in the safe zone to get lower ranks but carebears / pve players will suffer trying to get higher ranks and ship knowledge in the green zone.

Edited by Captain Lust
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9 minutes ago, admin said:

Lets be honest
Lets imagine a new player. He just got his captain rank. He wants to pvp eventually but he wants to get some foothold first.

What is the risk/reward for a unexperienced player sailing solo in his cerberus or LGV from KPR to Hispaniola near la navasse?

 

From a pvp prospect, even if he sinks, give him ship experience, give him some coin for his work, give him a mark or 2. Maybe add partial insurance for anything 5 rate and below. 

From a pve prospect, increase the loot received for attacking a AI ship close to the same level ship he has. Give him more loot for hard earned kills. Give him more coin and crafting xp for completing a trade mission. Give him epic evens that him and his fellow captain level friend can do for good level appropriate loot, guide them to these missions. Set mission loot based on distance from port, the further you go out the better the loot. 

The trend is loot. Make them want something, that next book, that next level of unlocks and then dangle that just out of reach. 

Edited by Daguse
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4 minutes ago, admin said:

Lets be honest
Lets imagine a new player. He just got his captain rank. He wants to pvp eventually but he wants to get some foothold first.

What is the risk/reward for a unexperienced player sailing solo in his cerberus or LGV from KPR to Hispaniola near la navasse?
Even if he gets 100 mln for that SUPER DUPER IMAGINARY mission. Do you think he will get to it? 
Even with the free ships.. do you think he will sail there after 3rd sinking?

 

if you've been paying attention recently a decent sized amount of US players joined the game and created that clan PARF, they followed that one streamer PIxie (i think).  They had a decent sized clan of 20+ players and were thriving for a couple of weeks.  I talked to one of their members yesterday and he told me that most of them, including the streamer guy Pixie, had quit.  Basically it was too difficult for them to play with the pirates owning a port just south of them.  Savannah.  They said they could not do any econ to build ships without getting ganked 24/7 and were having a very difficult time grinding up mission XP outside of CT because it was camped 24/7.  BLACK clan took this region for the explicit purpose of hunting down players outside of CT and have farmed them mercilessly over the past month or 2.  

This is the new player experience.  It needs to change.  

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1 minute ago, Captain Lust said:

I think all you have to do is increase the reward for pvp to a point where noobs can still make progress in the safe zone to get lower ranks but carebears / pve players will suffer trying to get higher ranks and ship knowledge in the green zone.

are you sure?

  • lets say pvp rewards are increased a lot (by 3)
  • special chests are added for pvp players based on pvp score they gain 
  • special zone 6v6 is created in the center of map where every pvp player will come for fun for equal fights

Will it change something?

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4 minutes ago, Christendom said:

if you've been paying attention recently a decent sized amount of US players joined the game and created that clan PARF, they followed that one streamer PIxie (i think).  They had a decent sized clan of 20+ players and were thriving for a couple of weeks.  I talked to one of their members yesterday and he told me that most of them, including the streamer guy Pixie, had quit.  Basically it was too difficult for them to play with the pirates owning a port just south of them.  Savannah.  They said they could not do any econ to build ships without getting ganked 24/7 and were having a very difficult time grinding up mission XP outside of CT because it was camped 24/7.  BLACK clan took this region for the explicit purpose of hunting down players outside of CT and have farmed them mercilessly over the past month or 2.  

This is the new player experience.  It needs to change.  

thats exactly the problem
players have fun.. and then hit the wall because map changes constantly, they can't rebuild, they have to adapt production every time someones decide to take the port add human psychology (people overvalue losses)

 

ps NA legends will be a huge hit. Due to lack of all such problems. We have to fix the bleed of players on medium levels in the NA Open world. 

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2 minutes ago, admin said:

lets say pvp rewards are increased a lot (by 3)

I think even this would be a good enough start but maybe 5x instead of 3.... carebears can rot in their missions while real pvp players can unlock their ship knowledge in pvp...

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1 minute ago, Aventador said:

@admin You still ignoring pretty much everyone who has posted something on the server merge. I want to know your hesitations and why so we can actually grasp the situation.

 

we don't have plans to merge at this stage of development

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32 minutes ago, Intrepido said:

The game dont need radical changes every patch. Every patch the playerbase have to learn a new game, this is not good, not good at all.

This cycle of "I develop one thing and 3 weeks after I throw all to the bin" has to stop.

Devs have to made small steps to reach to the right balance through tweaks and tunnings of systems that can work.

This has been the one post you have made that I agree 100% with.   Except I dont even think it is 3 weeks between radical changes.. maybe 2 weeks at best.

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5 minutes ago, admin said:

are you sure?

  • lets say pvp rewards are increased a lot (by 3)
  • special chests are added for pvp players based on pvp score they gain 
  • special zone 6v6 is created in the center of map where every pvp player will come for fun for equal fights

Will it change something?

Step 1.  Give gold and XP/Slot XP for ships that are also capped.  Players should not have to choose between getting XP and the ship.  This is perhaps one of the most negative changes you made to PVP.  

Step 2.  Rewards.  the problem in the past was that you gave rewards to pvp that affected RVR.  Special ship blueprints and stuff.  PVP rewards should only be cosmetic.  Ship paints, special pennants...ship names.....stuff like that.  Give them special titles like World of Warcraft has.  Cosmetic rewards stroke PVPers egos, we love that stuff.

Step 3. PVP zone wasn't a bad idea, but to implement it you would need teleports.  Also shouldn't give out BPs for the chests.  It also turns into a 6v6 large ship gank fest.  The location also realy needs to be random.  

Step 4.  Server merge.  PVP needs to happen at all times of the day.  

Edited by Christendom
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1 minute ago, Captain Lust said:

I think even this would be a good enough start but maybe 5x instead of 3.... carebears can rot in their missions while real pvp players can unlock their ship knowledge in pvp...

so why then online was much lower than today (across all servers) in november december when these features were in game from november till may??

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1 minute ago, Captain Lust said:

I think even this would be a good enough start but maybe 5x instead of 3.... carebears can rot in their missions while real pvp players can unlock their ship knowledge in pvp...

maybe its the "PVPers" who are the real snowflakes? Just sayin ...

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2 minutes ago, admin said:

we don't have plans to merge at this stage of development

You can't possibly think that keeping 3 separate servers in it's current state is a good idea. There has to be something holding you back... What is it?

Edited by Aventador
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2 minutes ago, admin said:

are you sure?

  • lets say pvp rewards are increased a lot (by 3)
  • special chests are added for pvp players based on pvp score they gain 
  • special zone 6v6 is created in the center of map where every pvp player will come for fun for equal fights

Will it change something?

As an old time veteran gamer, I can say that the only thing that will help is making it easy to get into a fight and to loose without too much loss. I will not play a game where it takes too long to have all the fun stuff. Port Battles, pvp, trading etc. It all takes too long time in preparations compared to other games. MMO does not have to be boring MMO. Naval Action is just that now, but that has not always been the case. Go back to basic. Forget about all the RvR and concentrate on the single player MMO experience. Is this part fun? Is that part fun? RvR will always organize themselves so to speak. Clans will come and go. The single player online should be your main focus. If he is bored, you can forget about everything else. 

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Just now, admin said:

so why then online was much lower than today (across all servers) in november december when these features were in game?

The pvp gank event at La Navasse and Shroud cay? I think because it was all about whoever brought the bigger / better gankfleet won... not sure tho :P

5x i mean xp and gold for pvp btw... minimum. PvE is too rewarding versus PvP and larger greenzones will only make it worse...

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17 minutes ago, Daguse said:

That goes into the risk rewards, pvp players that lose a battle should get something for it. 

At the same time it's a balance of pve and pvp. Create content that the pve player wants and is willing to risk their ship to get. That will attract pvpers on both sides. 

You already said it would be a focus at some point. Maybe it's time to move it up the list? 

One of the problems is I get better rewards doing PvE.  Higher gold drop cause I can solo and not have to share.  Rewards are better cause I get books and mods dropped.  I can sale the goods cause I don't have to keep the ship.   The Combat Marks are a bit better balanced but XP reward is not on PvE vs PvP.   XP needs to go back to being based off damage.  Keep Marks and Gold off the Kill Assit.  This will help reward folks better.  Ship knowledge should be gained from mission and sailing xp too not just your combat XP.

PvP rewards need to be separated from PvE rewards. I'm sorry you want the good stuff you take the risk.  You want the epic gear you have to go do the epic mission in a game or buy it from some one that farms the epic raid.   ONe way to do this is make something we all miss rewards from PvP PAINT CHEST.  That shows your rewarded by doing PvP (top guys per day on PvP Leaderboards get one and PB winners) and not just some guy that grind AI's all day long.  Make the rewards something as a status that your a PvP/RvR player.  When you removed PvP marks you took that away from the PvP players.  Conquest Marks rewarded the guys that did Port Battles and the hard work.  Now Victory Marks only rewards the team that wins and it rewards every one included the guys that did nothing and alts that suddenly rolled to the winning team.  It should reward the folks that actually show up and fight at the port battles not the lazy folks that just riding on thier coat tellls.  It gave a reason to own a region.  Just like the old region refit for crafting a ship in that region gave you a reason to own a region.  Now you just have to go in with a smuggler flag or out bid some one with your alt to get the refits.  There is no reason to fight over regions for rare resources.

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