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Preliminary discussion of the changes to conquest - clan wars are coming


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11 minutes ago, Hodo said:

This.

Last night I know myself and 4 other people from TF and VCO went sailing around Mortimer.  We saw NO ONE the whole way up there from KPR.  When we got there we found a single Santisima and a few other smaller ships.  We attacked the Santi, and ended up in a fight with an Indefatigable, Santi, Renomee, Snow, and a Lynx.   We sank everything but the Snow who got away.   And was honestly the best sailor of the bunch.   

After we left the fight there was a "massive" revenge fleet of around 10 ships waiting.   We scattered to the four winds and lost most of them.   It was a good fight, but it was ONE fight, maybe two.   Not much else going on that night.   The Combat Clerk posts confirmed this.

It was one fight that took over an hour and a hour to get there and away.

Man that was a hard fight to watch with the Santi, he did finally listen to us when we told him to turn and fight.  He could of had a few of you and changed the end results of the kills on both sides a bit if he had.   One thing for sure he learned not to SOLO a Santi out side Mort and defently don't go without the proper Repairs either.  I don't think he had any rum on him.  If he had he prob could of keep that fight running until the clock ran out.

I know we got the Frigate with one group and my group got one of your Connies (he boomed next to me).  In that fight one of the smaller clan guys made a big mistake that cost us some time on the connie.   It's good for these guys to get out and fight like this as many of them are fairly new to the PvP. 

Oh and we both got on the Leader Board for our kills.  So for once we weren't forum whoring all night (just kidding I still was).

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Hello Captains. We would like to share some information on the potential changes to conquest.  Current Problems New player experience is uneven and heavily depends on the nation you join.

current system does not work. If player joins spain on PVP Global he leaves like in 1-2 days. Because he sees that he can never win. Basic game design rule - if perceived chance to win the game is 0 t

another statement on the wipe There will be no wipe. only map reset. In fact there might be no wipes any more even on release. But its not a promise. 

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3 hours ago, Archaos said:

The problem is not the OW sailing times it is knowing where to find PvP in such a big OW with a relatively small player base. I believe the solution is not to decrease OW sailing times but to find ways to get more people out to OW and create places where you know you will get PvP. At the moment that tends to be Nation Capital regions and thus you end up with the ganking of newbies etc.

I personally like the big OW map where you can find quiet areas and are not guaranteed to bump into people in the middle of nowhere. It gives the feeling of actually being at sea, you can sail for ages seeing no one but you have to keep watch because someone could appear. The issue in such a world is how do you generate these PvP hot zones where people can go knowing that they will get PvP. I think the current proposals for War Companies will help as Companies will have to be more active in defending their ports especially if they bring in things like port supplies.

I think some of the current failings in RvR is that PB's in most cases are really quite irrelevant as there is no real personal gain (apart from the battle enjoyment) from taking part in the battle, and once you have the port there is no real gain from keeping it, which has led to ports being traded back and forth. The control of resources has been nullified by alts so there is no reason to have a port for the supply of special woods etc. To make the RvR interesting there has to be some gain from holding ports, it has to be an income generator that means the owning Company does not have to spend time in PvE to generate money, they could even look at bringing back another currency like conquest marks for owners of ports (maybe now if more ports are available to be owned it wont be as bad as before).

I really think the OW game should revolve around the RvR, for people who just want quick battles then the Legends game will be more appropriate. But by the same token the RvR game should encourage people who like the open world but do not want to engage in RvR and be part of a War Company to get involved some way by creating targets for sole raiders, creating opportunities for traders etc.

The problem is that who cant stand this OW sailing time, just quit and make a bad review, but who likes wont quit if it will be changed. Only people with unlimited time can enjoy the game in this form, and everybody who supports this OW sailing time just killing its beloved game... The fact is that in steam reviews the most problematic factor is this. So u can choose, u support this kind of sailing and play on an empty map, or u play on a live map. If u let automatic movement without cargo with 1 day delay between outposts, that dont change any mechanic in the game, just dont force people with real life to be at thier PC when rearranging ships, what are more than 95% no action, boring play. If somebody dont understand that (u, or the developers) just dont understand that for a succesfull game u have to serve the players. This is a problem from the first step, and the movement was much harder at the start. I bet that this issue just made like 5000 player to leave, and nowdays just mostly hc, living in game type players stay, or beginners. Thats not the way a server can be filled...

 

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31 minutes ago, Hodo said:

This.

Last night I know myself and 4 other people from TF and VCO went sailing around Mortimer.  We saw NO ONE the whole way up there from KPR.  When we got there we found a single Santisima and a few other smaller ships.  We attacked the Santi, and ended up in a fight with an Indefatigable, Santi, Renomee, Snow, and a Lynx.   We sank everything but the Snow who got away.   And was honestly the best sailor of the bunch.   

After we left the fight there was a "massive" revenge fleet of around 10 ships waiting.   We scattered to the four winds and lost most of them.   It was a good fight, but it was ONE fight, maybe two.   Not much else going on that night.   The Combat Clerk posts confirmed this.

It was one fight that took over an hour and a hour to get there and away.

Well, this is a player and a game problem.  The pirates are basically playing firemen PvP.  They've got teleports to various parts of the map and when someone does something they teleport to respond.  After its over they head back to port and wait for the next bell to go off.  Since they have the lead, the outposts, and the ships stationed at those docks, they can just sit back and play another game (or forum whore ;) ).  There is no reason to be on the OW.  Heck, they could just wait it out till the PB to show up.

This is why RvR needs to focus on being on the OW.

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20 minutes ago, Sir Texas Sir said:

Man that was a hard fight to watch with the Santi, he did finally listen to us when we told him to turn and fight.  He could of had a few of you and changed the end results of the kills on both sides a bit if he had.   One thing for sure he learned not to SOLO a Santi out side Mort and defently don't go without the proper Repairs either.  I don't think he had any rum on him.  If he had he prob could of keep that fight running until the clock ran out.

I know we got the Frigate with one group and my group got one of your Connies (he boomed next to me).  In that fight one of the smaller clan guys made a big mistake that cost us some time on the connie.   It's good for these guys to get out and fight like this as many of them are fairly new to the PvP. 

Oh and we both got on the Leader Board for our kills.  So for once we weren't forum whoring all night (just kidding I still was).

He had me dead to rights when he double demasted me... I honestly expected him to rotate and give me the other 56 guns... which would have been the smart thing.  It would have removed 1 ship from the fight and it would have reduced the number of guns on your stern.     But instead he fired on the frigate, which was a store bought live oak ship and surprisingly tough.

He had a nice Santi though.  

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Admin, Devs,

at almost 40 pages of comments, imho it is time to start arriving at conclusions, even provisional ones, and state which direction the game will be taking next. Thanks for the great ideas and proposals, but it looks like it is time to really move on.

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14 minutes ago, Dharus said:

Well, this is a player and a game problem.  The pirates are basically playing firemen PvP.  They've got teleports to various parts of the map and when someone does something they teleport to respond.  After its over they head back to port and wait for the next bell to go off.  Since they have the lead, the outposts, and the ships stationed at those docks, they can just sit back and play another game (or forum whore ;) ).  There is no reason to be on the OW.  Heck, they could just wait it out till the PB to show up.

This is why RvR needs to focus on being on the OW.

Why should i be on OW, if i have to sail like 2-5 h for 1 h action, what is cost much more than the earnings. Dont tell me that i try to find PVP at bad places. I go after it at Misteriosa, LaHabanna, KPR, Belize, Dutch home waters, Las Tortugas, and all over the map. if i want to get action, i have to plan my day according to it, thats laughable. No real teamfights, thats rare like the white crow. Before patch at least we have shitload PVP (because the PVP and PVE rewards was much higher compared to ship prices), but players left that system too because of the promised patch what was delayed by month and because of the sailing time (till normal freeport outposts it wasnt such a big issue). Before the patch with a little easier movement (normal free outposts) 300 player should make a viable map. Now its dead. No flips, no real PVP-s, just sometimes the usual failfitted gankers get somebody. Joke!  But anybody can say anything, the game has no chance to be viable in this way, and the proove will be that when it will be closed.

Edited by DrZoidberg
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11 minutes ago, DrZoidberg said:

The problem is that who cant stand this OW sailing time, just quit and make a bad review, but who likes wont quit if it will be changed. Only people with unlimited time can enjoy the game in this form, and everybody who supports this OW sailing time just killing its beloved game... The fact is that in steam reviews the most problematic factor is this. So u can choose, u support this kind of sailing and play on an empty map, or u play on a live map. If u let automatic movement without cargo with 1 day delay between outposts, that dont change any mechanic in the game, just dont force people with real life to be at thier PC when rearranging ships, what are more than 95% no action, boring play. If somebody dont understand that (u, or the developers) just dont understand that for a succesfull game u have to serve the players. This is a problem from the first step, and the movement was much harder at the start. I bet that this issue just made like 5000 player to leave, and nowdays just mostly hc, living in game type players stay, or beginners. Thats not the way a server can be filled...

 

I would have no issue with the ship delivery system they had previously where you could send a ship without cargo to another outpost overnight, but I dont believe that alone will solve the problem of lack of PvP. Prior to the wipe ships could be teleported easily even before they brought in the tow to port feature and it was still difficult to find PvP. They had PvP areas with rewards and although I believe the large ship battles one was used a bit, it was difficult to find people in the smaller ships battle area. The problems go a lot deeper than the distances between ports in OW.

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41 minutes ago, Archaos said:

I would have no issue with the ship delivery system they had previously where you could send a ship without cargo to another outpost overnight, but I dont believe that alone will solve the problem of lack of PvP. Prior to the wipe ships could be teleported easily even before they brought in the tow to port feature and it was still difficult to find PvP. They had PvP areas with rewards and although I believe the large ship battles one was used a bit, it was difficult to find people in the smaller ships battle area. The problems go a lot deeper than the distances between ports in OW.

No, tat wont solve the issue, becuase there are 3 main player base leak cause. 1. To live in NA is hard, especially for PVPers. (the PVE rewards are low, the PVP rewards are laughable - should like MINIMUM 4x money reward and 20X ship XP reward for PVP)

2. There are some nations supressed (especially some "easy" nations - lol), those are unplayable.  (Make balance system, maybe alliance system.)

3. long OS sailing times (make at least 1 freeport usable as before - make automatic rearrangement with delay)

Till this 3 problem is not solved, the game is dead.

I admit something, now they make ship prices as it should be compared to each other. But i suggested it like 1 year before with the NPC capping system they implemented now.

Now the player base and the trust in the developing so low, that i dunno they can revive even if they change these problems, but if not....

A copy paste system from another game wont solve anything, especially because that system will streghten the supressed nation (after it with supressed player, guild, war company) issue. Eve Online has unlimited play area and player pool compared to NA for that system, in this "small" system it will be a pain in ass, especially for new and low player time players. I dunno what they think, the HC old player will stay around a port and wont get everything with thier strong war companies from the new ones and solo players? They will make more problems for themself, and dont solve any. Nowdays i think they dont want to keep anybody, just want a fast recycle of playerbase till the end, but atm with this freeport and sailing system the player base goes under criticall mas, so the map doesnt working. 

As the great cheef Levin told: the problem is not when u hello kitty up a bad dish, the problem is if when u hello kitty up a good one.

This game should be best seller...

Edited by DrZoidberg
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I was thinking: what is a flag?

tl;dr: I hope a flag is actually 100 war supplies.

War supplies are not trivial to build. They involve a fair amount of acquiring materials and moving them around. (In fact, I think it would be interesting to raise the tonnage of materials required but lower the labor cost. More hauling = more open sea warfare potential.)

Stopping a 30 minute flag plant is going to be impossible -- the flag runners had all day to plan this and get organized and could well be sailing to plant the flag with 25 1st rates. The defenders have probably 30-60 minutes to organize a response to that?? Not gonna happen.

If flags cost money then there's not going to be a way to stop it. Owning ports will give you money which gives you flags which gives you more ports.

But if they cost war supplies then it's a little more interesting: now there are traders moving around and that at least gives us a chance to hunt for something.

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1 hour ago, Red Dragon 13 said:

Admin, Devs,

at almost 40 pages of comments, imho it is time to start arriving at conclusions, even provisional ones, and state which direction the game will be taking next. Thanks for the great ideas and proposals, but it looks like it is time to really move on.

i bet they just decided when they started this topic, so reviews are not so important for them. they dont have ideas for stop the player base loss, so they just copy paste a new system and see what happens. with the topic they show that they want contact with the players, but it seems they dont have time, or cant, or the direction is just decided so they dont really want. Continuing just as before :(.

I wish best to Devs and thier game.

Best regards ..

Edited by DrZoidberg
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23 minutes ago, Slamz said:

I was thinking: what is a flag?

tl;dr: I hope a flag is actually 100 war supplies.

War supplies are not trivial to build. They involve a fair amount of acquiring materials and moving them around. (In fact, I think it would be interesting to raise the tonnage of materials required but lower the labor cost. More hauling = more open sea warfare potential.)

Stopping a 30 minute flag plant is going to be impossible -- the flag runners had all day to plan this and get organized and could well be sailing to plant the flag with 25 1st rates. The defenders have probably 30-60 minutes to organize a response to that?? Not gonna happen.

If flags cost money then there's not going to be a way to stop it. Owning ports will give you money which gives you flags which gives you more ports.

But if they cost war supplies then it's a little more interesting: now there are traders moving around and that at least gives us a chance to hunt for something.

 

Flags should be called TROOPS, and TROOPS should be heavy and expensive to produce.  Use the current war supply system as a template. 
 

Need to generate a port battle, then you need X number of war supplies for that region.  

The number will be based on 2 factors, type of port (shallow, 4th or 1st rate) and by the proximity to hostile regions, closer to the front it is the less you need.  

This will generate a REAL front line. 

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1 hour ago, DrZoidberg said:

Why should i be on OW, if i have to sail like 2-5 h for 1 h action, what is cost much more than the earnings. Dont tell me that i try to find PVP at bad places. I go after it at Misteriosa, LaHabanna, KPR, Belize, Dutch home waters, Las Tortugas, and all over the map. if i want to get action, i have to plan my day according to it, thats laughable. No real teamfights, thats rare like the white crow. Before patch at least we have shitload PVP (because the PVP and PVE rewards was much higher compared to ship prices), but players left that system too because of the promised patch what was delayed by month and because of the sailing time (till normal freeport outposts it wasnt such a big issue). Before the patch with a little easier movement (normal free outposts) 300 player should make a viable map. Now its dead. No flips, no real PVP-s, just sometimes the usual failfitted gankers get somebody. Joke!  But anybody can say anything, the game has no chance to be viable in this way, and the proove will be that when it will be closed.

RvR on the OW works if the PvP is stretched over days by the game mechanics.  Then you travel a few hrs, then you know for the next 3 days the area should be hot.  I think you've not read my suggestion on page 34.  Basically, instead of a PB which can be done fairly quickly, the regions are flipped through being on the OW within a region.  So, if you sailed 3 hrs on the OW with a button pressed that added contention/points to that region.  It also, through the map, notifies people you are in that area because of the contention build.  Naturally people will be attracted to that location (kindof like shipwrecks) with the intended purpose of RvR and PvP.  People will patrol that area or PvP to flip the dots.  The rewards are PvP or if they don't show up, the ports themselves.  Then that allows a flag system coupled to the old PB system to allow raiding which could reward people differently.

To have PvP you need drivers that push people onto the OW.  PBs don't really do it.  I think 1 out of 10 PBs might be a real PvP fight.  The rest are no shows or slaughters which are basically ganks within an arena.  Right now, the only way to get the pirates on global (who are winning) out to fight is by grinding up and attending a PB which they'll have maxed out ships.  That's hours of PvE gameplay for a coin flip fight.  Otherwise, they stay off the water.

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8 hours ago, Dharus said:

RvR on the OW works if the PvP is stretched over days by the game mechanics.

Yeah...

In this game, what you do to flip a port and "the entire rest of the game" are too far separated from each other. You can RvR with very little need for PvP (especially once you are established) and vice versa -- PvPers do not need to care about or participate at all in RvR.

This new clan conquest idea makes this even more true. Once this goes in, clans like mine can simply never join a war company and we will forever have all the resources and teleports we need for PvP. RvR game sounds like it might be literally invisible to us.

How it SHOULD work is that port flipping occurs as a natural result of literally every other action in the game, but slowly over time.

Trade profit generates contention.
Sinking NPCs generates contention (but not so that it's worth it to "grind" but rather, it just slowly adds up as a result of people naturally getting some XP).
Doing missions generates contention.

All this happens to the nearest enemy port regardless of how far away that is.

Brits engaging in normal activity in Belize will generate contention in Haiti if that's the nearest enemy port. They can't NOT generate contention. Everything you do is worth some, somewhere.

Then maybe war supplies can be used by attackers to shift the time of the battle.

Contention should be a natural event all players contribute to rather than a special gimmick we have to aim to do.

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3 hours ago, Slamz said:

<snip>

All this happens to the nearest enemy port regardless of how far away that is.

</snip>

 

Agree with the sentiment of the rest of your post, but this line right here? Newp. 

Contention needs to be worked near the port that's "under attack". There's enough meta gaming going on as it is, we don't need to add another layer of cheese to go on top of it. 

I completely understand the desire for everybody to be able to contribute in some meaningful fashion to the conquest side of the game, because in doing so we create a more vibrant and active sandbox to play in. For me, the number one turn off to RvR/PB's is how easy they are to trigger while avoiding the very thing they should be designed to promote... PvP outside of the "Arena". The PB should be the icing on the PvP cake. The proverbial period at the end of the sentence. Everything before that should absolutely matter and be accessible.. Around the port of contention, not some unrelated zone an hour's sail away. 


I like the idea of the "patrols". Makes the attackers have a presence in the area, which triggers defenders to show up to push them out. PvP happens. Attackers sink defenders, a few points of contention are added. Opposite if defenders win. All fine and dandy so long as PvE and the killing of stupid bots is removed from the equation. I'll beat the drum that since RvR is a PvP activity, PvP needs to be the the most efficient, viable, and desirable method of a conquest campaign. 

 

 

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2 hours ago, Rhodry Heidenrich said:

 

Agree with the sentiment of the rest of your post, but this line right here? Newp. 

Contention needs to be worked near the port that's "under attack". There's enough meta gaming going on as it is, we don't need to add another layer of cheese to go on top of it. 

 

It s too easily exploitable for the defender by simply not showing in the targeted region and just drop war supply to counter hostility.    Plus forcing pve grind.

I agree that ow pvp  should be linked to rvr. Maybe limit pb choices to the country your nation have the most pvp with (both sink or sunk). This would prevent switching ports from empty nations while keeping no rvr vs the nation you hunt (or gank you) the most

Edited by Baptiste Gallouédec
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Update

As usual community brain in general provided interesting edge cases that required some additional design rework of the initial proposal.

 

As a result
Here is the updated version of the preliminary proposal

Alts
As we only need to solve problem of alts interfering in OW and PBs we needed a simple and quick fix. We do not need a convoluted and complicated system of war companies and such. 

  • As a result. 
  • Clans will be able to set friendly status for other clans in their nation (up to 15 clans). Current clans and their historical names will remain intact. 
  • Diplomat role will be added and clan founder and diplomats will be able to set this friendly status. 
  • Only clans listed as friendly will be able to enter port battles initiated by the clan.
  • Friendly status + battlegroups will keep alts from battles and port battles.

New player experience, seal clubbing and inability to progress
Once the average player have passed the initial hurdles of the UI and started building ships it is getting very hard to progress because he has no place to safely rebuild and survive. 

Initial solution was to move un capturable ports to coasts

  • Moving un capturable ports to the coasts and moving very profitable resources to the center will actually increase sailing times for many (who wish to venture into dangerous waters for profit or pvp)
  • In addition to that repositioning of ports will drastically change existing gameplay and reposition resources and having done this before we believe that this might have a drastic adverse effect on play

As a result we would like to discuss the alternative solution for discussion

  • Change naming of servers to properly identify the style of play 
    • Easy (PvE only)
    • Hardcore Global
    • Hardcore EU
  • Capitals will remain in their current places
  • Un-capturable ports will be set in the areas around the capitals (with the exception of sweden and denmark which will be set as very hard again during selection of the nation).
  • Un-capturable ports will not be counted in the national leaderboards for victory marks
  • Important. Within the zone of influence around the waters will be made extremely safe, by use of national reinforcements (a-la CONCORD) which will arrive to battles and defend the player in case he is attacked. The bigger the distance from capital the weaker reinforcements would be. Extremely skilled captains will still be able to sink the defender despite all odds, but it will give some breathing room to players to rebuild in case of multiple losses.
  • Extremely profitable trading resources will be removed from the un-capturable ports and placed in capturable ports to provide profitable trading, privateering and potential taxation base.

Taxation will remain the way described before. Port maintenance will be added - if the clan controls the port they will have to pay maintenance (taken from the clan warehouse). If maintenance is not paid the port will turn into a neutral port. Taxation money will be collected to clan warehouse as well. 

 

Safe(R) waters are going to be controversial for some. So lets spend some time discussing this as well. 
Predicting outcry about safe waters we would like to say. We believe some safe waters will be good for the game.

We can supply new players to game (10000 new players came to NA during last 3 months) but current system do not keep them. No-one stayed. 

Some might say - but add pve and such - we could do that and plan to do that, but the problem is that with current system you won't be able to even get to those exciting PVE events. Privateers operating from free towns near capitals, placed conveniently within 20 mins form each capital for a different reason (resource transport that was removed) completely destroy the opportunity to rebuild. You must stay in green waters otherwise you are dead. When online numbers fluctuate they increase the problem because there are less targets and the only target becomes a new player, because old players know how to avoid it. New players unfortunately do not get time to learn to avoid it, and just leave.

When online numbers were higher it was a lesser problem because of abundance of targets (some could pass through). When online fluctuates the only target is a new player.

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21 minutes ago, admin said:

 

  • Capitals will remain in their current places
  • Un-capturable ports will be set in the areas around the capitals (with the exception of sweden and denmark which will be set as very hard again during selection of the nation).

is it possible for you guys to present some map with what will be captrurable and what not exactly?

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I did like the War Companies concept and we even all ready had the name and every planed for our War Company, but I think the friendly clans thing works out too.  Will there still be clan wars between same nation clans and what not?

 

Oh what about clanless players?  With the War Companies it sounded like you could add them and they didn't have to be in a clan.  Now the small one or two guys that solo and want to join RvR will have to be forced to join a clan even if they don't want to.

 

@admin May I suggest that when you do this you give out another round of Forge Papers and give a tally of each nation active population to help us maybe balance out the servers again for the new system? Something like this would be great.   A lot of folks think they are in smaller nations than they are but they don't understand they don't see the guys that log in through out the days is actual a lot more than the current log in numbers.

dFbC8bb.png

Edited by Sir Texas Sir
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31 minutes ago, admin said:

Update

As usual community brain in general provided interesting edge cases that required some additional design rework of the initial proposal.

 

As a result
Here is the updated version of the preliminary proposal

Alts
As we only need to solve problem of alts interfering in OW and PBs we needed a simple and quick fix. We do not need a convoluted and complicated system of war companies and such. 

  • As a result. 
  • Clans will be able to set friendly status for other clans in their nation (up to 15 clans). Current clans and their historical names will remain intact. 
  • Diplomat role will be added and clan founder and diplomats will be able to set this friendly status. 
  • Only clans listed as friendly will be able to enter port battles initiated by the clan.
  • Friendly status + battlegroups will keep alts from battles and port battles.

New player experience, seal clubbing and inability to progress
Once the average player have passed the initial hurdles of the UI and started building ships it is getting very hard to progress because he has no place to safely rebuild and survive. 

Initial solution was to move un capturable ports to coasts

  • Moving un capturable ports to the coasts and moving very profitable resources to the center will actually increase sailing times for many (who wish to venture into dangerous waters for profit or pvp)
  • In addition to that repositioning of ports will drastically change existing gameplay and reposition resources and having done this before we believe that this might have a drastic adverse effect on play

As a result we would like to discuss the alternative solution for discussion

  • Change naming of servers to properly identify the style of play 
    • Easy (PvE only)
    • Hardcore Global
    • Hardcore EU
  • Capitals will remain in their current places
  • Un-capturable ports will be set in the areas around the capitals (with the exception of sweden and denmark which will be set as very hard again during selection of the nation).
  • Un-capturable ports will not be counted in the national leaderboards for victory marks
  • Important. Within the zone of influence around the waters will be made extremely safe, by use of national reinforcements (a-la CONCORD) which will arrive to battles and defend the player in case he is attacked. The bigger the distance from capital the weaker reinforcements would be. Extremely skilled captains will still be able to sink the defender despite all odds, but it will give some breathing room to players to rebuild in case of multiple losses.
  • Extremely profitable trading resources will be removed from the un-capturable ports and placed in capturable ports to provide profitable trading, privateering and potential taxation base.

Taxation will remain the way described before. Port maintenance will be added - if the clan controls the port they will have to pay maintenance (taken from the clan warehouse). If maintenance is not paid the port will turn into a neutral port. Taxation money will be collected to clan warehouse as well. 

 

Safe(R) waters are going to be controversial for some. So lets spend some time discussing this as well. 
Predicting outcry about safe waters we would like to say. We believe some safe waters will be good for the game.

We can supply new players to game (10000 new players came to NA during last 3 months) but current system do not keep them. No-one stayed. 

Some might say - but add pve and such - we could do that and plan to do that, but the problem is that with current system you won't be able to even get to those exciting PVE events. Privateers operating from free towns near capitals, placed conveniently within 20 mins form each capital for a different reason (resource transport that was removed) completely destroy the opportunity to rebuild. You must stay in green waters otherwise you are dead. When online numbers fluctuate they increase the problem because there are less targets and the only target becomes a new player, because old players know how to avoid it. New players unfortunately do not get time to learn to avoid it, and just leave.

When online numbers were higher it was a lesser problem because of abundance of targets (some could pass through). When online fluctuates the only target is a new player.

Like everything.
May I suggest the following:

- Rename PVE server to Softcore PVP. No player vs player in OW but give them options to PVP somehow like over specific PBs that are just there to experience the team fight and mean nothing else. No capture no loosing.
- Move Danes, Swedes and French capitals and evenly spread around the map and also give them the un-capturable land around capitals.
- Remove huge AI fleets everywhere in the world except around the nation capital areas to help the newbs aka high security zone.
- Instead of setting "friendly" clans, allow us to create Alliances and invite clans from the same nation to those alliance. Only your alliance clans can participate in your PBs

Loving your work!

Edited by koltes
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. Edit : typed and sent before seeing last proposed changes a few posts above

1 hour ago, Baptiste Gallouédec said:

It s too easily exploitable for the defender by simply not showing in the targeted region and just drop war supply to counter hostility.    Plus forcing pve grind.

I agree that ow pvp  should be linked to rvr. Maybe limit pb choices to the country your nation have the most pvp with (both sink or sunk). This would prevent switching ports from empty nations while keeping no rvr vs the nation you hunt (or gank you) the most

Since there is entire high levels alt clans working for obscure forces under other Nations flags i don't see how you can prevent anything... It's well know and seen regularly with the biggest more populated Nations in game... One of the reasons we keep hearing things like Brits are the most populated Nation in game, but then take out all the more or less small clans being there just to work for other factions in the shadows, providing resources, ships, intel + all individuals eco alts or spies being there for easy pvp hunting mode or easy access to resources, for sure you won't put an alt at work on a very low populated Nation, you put it at work on a Nation offering the most preys, same for trading , either for the one having the biggest markets or the rarest resources available regularly and easily ... So whatever the real numbers are they won't take this aspect of the game in account.

Then i hear Pirates saying Nationals don't have the right to express them view on how pirates should work ... but wait... did pirates even once acted as anything else than a Nation in this game, a Nation with extra advantages among others to have the right to say more than Nationals about this subject ? All they done is the same exact thing Nations done, while having extra advantages to do it compared to others, why should the Devs continue to listen to pirates demands seriously ?

-At the very start of the game pirates were the ones able to level up way easier and faster than any others while attacking each other, took ages to be limited.

- Pirates was the Nation able to grow up constantly due to the inability of players to switch faction other than going pirates, Dev's refused to fix this for years, so Nations loosing players were alway at the benefit of the pirates. Still is the case now in some proportions as many leaving a Nation won't go for another Nation that either used to be an enemy of his Nation or simply to not repeat the Nations overall politics problems, in the end pirates keep growing when Nations fall apart.

- Pirates received some extra benefits like the speed perk ( with no downsides like less armor or else ) , or now are limited for BP's ( in theory only since nothing prevents them to get BP's using alts accounts or clan , no limitation at all was hard coded for this, just an illusion added to the game) but get things like a ship outclassing by a large margin what the Nation have as counterpart.

- I keep hearing some Nations do too much pve , while it's true and some enjoy more the trading or relaxed content for different reasons of personal preferences or time available to play, remains that the Pirates are the ones who usually benefited from the easiest, most secure and advantageous pve areas in the entire map, the hidden island and the islands at the top corner of the map, mostly used as fishing and pve areas, with no free town anywhere close to them, areas far away to reach in terms of sailing distances or for escape possibilities vs revenge fleets, unlike any other place for any other Nations in the map. They get the easiest and most secure ground for pve , and it's largely used.

- Now we got the statement that hiding in a outlow battle is a legit tactic... so an entire fleet can start a battle 15-20mn before the server maintenance, enter and sail away to never be able to be caught even if by miracle the enemies manage to reunite quickly a fleet and enter in battle and in the best cases just have to wait for the server maintenance to happen to get an unfair advantage or for the the battle to end while sailing AFK for 1H30 being sure to never been caught .



 

Pirates were supposed to be the hardcore mode, in the facts they always were and still are the easiest faction in game, Dev's are too afraid to change it, they get the same benefits and possibilities as others and get some extra advantages on the top of this, in this thread when the question rises up we see again some requests for extra advantages for pirates and pirates only, putting pressure again on the Dev's to receive a nice counterpart, this have to change, make pirates pirates, don't give them silly unjustified extra advantages, limit the max crew and bring some special raiding mechanics for them and that's all, if pirates want to continue to do conquests they can switch to a nation and create a war company there, make them real pirates damnit, it's a long time due problem that needs to be fixed, stop favoring them like it was done since the release of this game for various reasons and by different mechanics or gameplay. You can't pretend to have a hardcore and historical based game with such non sense running.

I'm fed up of the constant BS over pirates absurdity we have in this game, why is there such double standards in this game when it comes to this faction like for the outlaw battles allowed, battles where they can easily avoid any fight either by sailing away to never been caught or doing it just before the server maintenance and stay hidden until they decide to login in game again, why they receive a ship outclassing completely what the Nation have at them disposal as counterpart?? What are you so afraid of when it comes to really make them pirates ? Why such advantages again and again ???

They are nothing else than a Nation, having the same exact possibilities as others in game but with extra advantages compared to others, never were pirates in game, never were the hardcore mode Dev's so often spoke about, just the easiest faction to play in game, so what is done for this ? Where are the raiding mechanics evoked in this thread that could stay an exclusive pirate thing too ?




 

Edited by Kanay
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46 minutes ago, admin said:

Update

As usual community brain in general provided interesting edge cases that required some additional design rework of the initial proposal.

 

As a result
Here is the updated version of the preliminary proposal

Alts
As we only need to solve problem of alts interfering in OW and PBs we needed a simple and quick fix. We do not need a convoluted and complicated system of war companies and such. 

  • As a result. 
  • Clans will be able to set friendly status for other clans in their nation (up to 15 clans). Current clans and their historical names will remain intact. 
  • Diplomat role will be added and clan founder and diplomats will be able to set this friendly status. 
  • Only clans listed as friendly will be able to enter port battles initiated by the clan.
  • Friendly status + battlegroups will keep alts from battles and port battles.

New player experience, seal clubbing and inability to progress
Once the average player have passed the initial hurdles of the UI and started building ships it is getting very hard to progress because he has no place to safely rebuild and survive. 

Initial solution was to move un capturable ports to coasts

  • Moving un capturable ports to the coasts and moving very profitable resources to the center will actually increase sailing times for many (who wish to venture into dangerous waters for profit or pvp)
  • In addition to that repositioning of ports will drastically change existing gameplay and reposition resources and having done this before we believe that this might have a drastic adverse effect on play

As a result we would like to discuss the alternative solution for discussion

  • Change naming of servers to properly identify the style of play 
    • Easy (PvE only)
    • Hardcore Global
    • Hardcore EU
  • Capitals will remain in their current places
  • Un-capturable ports will be set in the areas around the capitals (with the exception of sweden and denmark which will be set as very hard again during selection of the nation).
  • Un-capturable ports will not be counted in the national leaderboards for victory marks
  • Important. Within the zone of influence around the waters will be made extremely safe, by use of national reinforcements (a-la CONCORD) which will arrive to battles and defend the player in case he is attacked. The bigger the distance from capital the weaker reinforcements would be. Extremely skilled captains will still be able to sink the defender despite all odds, but it will give some breathing room to players to rebuild in case of multiple losses.
  • Extremely profitable trading resources will be removed from the un-capturable ports and placed in capturable ports to provide profitable trading, privateering and potential taxation base.

Taxation will remain the way described before. Port maintenance will be added - if the clan controls the port they will have to pay maintenance (taken from the clan warehouse). If maintenance is not paid the port will turn into a neutral port. Taxation money will be collected to clan warehouse as well. 

 

Safe(R) waters are going to be controversial for some. So lets spend some time discussing this as well. 
Predicting outcry about safe waters we would like to say. We believe some safe waters will be good for the game.

We can supply new players to game (10000 new players came to NA during last 3 months) but current system do not keep them. No-one stayed. 

Some might say - but add pve and such - we could do that and plan to do that, but the problem is that with current system you won't be able to even get to those exciting PVE events. Privateers operating from free towns near capitals, placed conveniently within 20 mins form each capital for a different reason (resource transport that was removed) completely destroy the opportunity to rebuild. You must stay in green waters otherwise you are dead. When online numbers fluctuate they increase the problem because there are less targets and the only target becomes a new player, because old players know how to avoid it. New players unfortunately do not get time to learn to avoid it, and just leave.

When online numbers were higher it was a lesser problem because of abundance of targets (some could pass through). When online fluctuates the only target is a new player.

Love ya work...

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1 hour ago, admin said:

Un-capturable ports will be set in the areas around the capitals (with the exception of sweden and denmark which will be set as very hard again during selection of the nation).

I agree with the un-capturable ports in areas around the capitals, but why exclude Sweden and Denmark? I understand you wish to have different difficult levels of play but a lot of people choose their nation based on their own nationality or background rather than the difficulty level. (this type of mechanic would work better in a fictional world that was not based on history).

The main issue is that these smaller and difficult to play nations then start requesting game mechanics that allow them to play on a more even footing as the larger easier to play nations and that is what causes issues. For example a small nation cannot put out a large screening fleet so they request mechanics to allow them bypass the larger nation screeners and get into and even matched port battle. If we have difficult to play nations then do not provide mechanics to then start leveling the playing field.

 

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