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Preliminary discussion of the changes to conquest - clan wars are coming


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When people say traders, do you mean people trading to generate money (buy trade goods low, sell high in another port) or do you mean people ferrying ship building resources from outposts to shipyards?


Or do you just lump these two together even though they do two completely different things?

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Hello Captains. We would like to share some information on the potential changes to conquest.  Current Problems New player experience is uneven and heavily depends on the nation you join.

current system does not work. If player joins spain on PVP Global he leaves like in 1-2 days. Because he sees that he can never win. Basic game design rule - if perceived chance to win the game is 0 t

another statement on the wipe There will be no wipe. only map reset. In fact there might be no wipes any more even on release. But its not a promise. 

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2 minutes ago, Spitfire83 said:

I don't feel arts in PBs  is that problematic right now due to low population numbers and RVR in general being very quiet across the map.

Making half the map non capturable creates dead zones only people there will be odd traders (except ones with resources we want as they will be middle map). And people looking for safe missions meaning hunters won't look there unless they wanna gank some care bear pvers  on a pvp server...so generally I don't like it I get the idea of a bigger buffer zone around capitals and that's about it tbh..

as far as I understand you will be able to take control (taxes, access) so called non capturable nation ports and use it within war company members (at the same time with members of nation the port belongs to)

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A 2011 Economist  story about the East India Company describes its mark on the world of trade, commerce and warfare.   One theory is that the Modern World began, not with the discovery of America, not with the invention of the printing press, but: 

"... there is a strong case to be made for a less conventional answer: the modern world began on a freezing New Year's Eve, in 1600, when Elizabeth I granted a company of 218 merchants a monopoly of trade to the east of the Cape of Good Hope."

"The East India Company controlled a standing army of some 200,000 men, more than most European states. ... The British government did not own shares in the Company (though prominent courtiers and politicians certainly did)."

"The Company" essentially ran Bengal and kept it pacified for the English Empire, until an economic collapse and famine required a government bailout.   More at: http://www.economist.com/node/21541753

Of course, the true Indiamen sailed by The Company were not immune from attack by pirates, hostile nations (and their own licensed trading companies, such as he Dutch East India Company) and even the ships, men and spies of rival trading companies.  

In the Second Anglo-Dutch War(1665-1667),

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After the English Restoration in 1660, Charles II tried through diplomatic means to make his nephew, Prince William III of Orange, stadtholder of the Republic. At the same time, Charles promoted a series of anti-Dutch mercantilist policies, which led to a surge of jingoism in England, the country being, as Samuel Pepys put it, "mad for war".

English merchants and chartered companies — such as the East India Company, the Royal Adventurers Trading into Africa, and the Levant Company — calculated that global economic primacy could now be wrestled from the Dutch. They reckoned that a combination of naval battles and irregular privateering missions would cripple the Dutch Republic and force the States General to agree to a favourable peace.[2] The plan was for English ships to be replenished, and sailors paid, with booty seized from captured Dutch merchant vessels returning from overseas.

In 1665 many Dutch ships were captured, and Dutch trade and industry was hurt. The war saw several English victories in battle, such as the taking of the Dutch colony of New Netherland (present day New York) by Charles' brother, the future James II; but there were also Dutch victories, such as the capture of the English flagship Prince Royal during the Four Days Battle — the subject of a famous painting by Willem van de Velde.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anglo-Dutch_Wars

So, yes, there are historical foundations for rivalry, even outright naval and land battles between nationally chartered trading companies or their proxies.

 

Edited by HardyKnox
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The map is huge. 89 regions. If 2/3 of that are rookie zones, that leaves us with 30 regions. That's still all of the islands, south florida and half of central america.


The current system greatly favors holding large amounts of regions at the edges of the map. as evidenced by Spains high ranking on the EU server, despite them doing *absolutely nothing*.

Making Sisal their rookie zone, moving the pirates to Texas with their rookie zone, the British to Bluefields would be a great start. Fight over Jamaica, Cuba, Hispaniola, the Bahamas and South Florida for the RVR victory.
Make the key ports there value at 3 points for the victory, leave the "tension zones" between the other nations (such as Trinidad between France / VP) at 1 pointers.

Edited by Quineloe
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16 minutes ago, Quineloe said:

The map is huge. 89 regions. If 2/3 of that are rookie zones, that leaves us with 30 regions. That's still all of the islands, south florida and half of central america.

They aren't exactly rookie zones, you can still PvP in the OW along all that coast line.

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11 minutes ago, Peter Goldman said:

Thus, it's better to remain friendly relations with your nation :) If other war companies/clans have good relations with you, why would they jump on you?

 

Yes friendliness is working well in this game,  no griefing, no alts, no rivalry, ego, personal interest etc.

 

2 minutes ago, Sir Texas Sir said:

They aren't exactly rookie zones, you can still PvP in the OW along all that coast line.

PVP with pve reinforcement fleets is not what i would call pvp, more like pve zones

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1 hour ago, admin said:

Devil's advocate question

Wont separating cities into capturable and non capturable just create another rookie zone - changing game for everyone but changing nothing in reality? 

Wont solve the problem that people will still be hunted in their rooki zone (because thats where players will be so to find ow pvp you have to go there). Therefore nothing really changes. People / new people will still lose everything and lose interest  in the game and leave.

 

What we need are frontlines. so staying behind the line means you might be more than safe. Getting closer to the line means you might be safe. Going over the line you are not safe anymore.

Edited by z4ys
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2 hours ago, admin said:

the problem is alts
3 alts can ruin the PB.. they will just quietly sail and do nothing.

But maybe the problem is overrated? 

 

The problem is over rated @admin give a few weeks and do nothing and they will move on to some new hack or exploit they can not prove. Every time you jump on the Wagon of the problem is ---------.  It bites you in the A$$ when you try and fix a problem that is not broke....This is not even close to a Problem on Global as hardly noone even shows up for Port battle. 1 in last 8 pb (8 a guess prob more) Had a good showing, They want to blame everything on something when it utterly and to the point of organization skills. (Teach each other how to fight, everyone is not an alt. but that is another discussion of why people leave game) 

  
When you made Victory marks you gave Pirates or Nations a Goal other than capturing dots.(Lack of any real reward will kill it as is happening right now)_  Then you compounded that by the best only get.  It was every simple to see the out come on Global/pvp2.  Look at the old operations on PVP2 for Pirates.  We created content for our selves with goals(because there was a lack off),  then set out to do them and wont lie some were so crazy it took a month to do it.  So more or less the whole victory mark thing, Pirates had a major advantage over everyone else. (We could of care less about ports until this happened) We had a lot of practice setting crazy goals and then doing them.  Only the organized will get anything done, and I say that loosely as just because you can get 75 to 100 people to same spot dose not make you the automatic winner, just like every MMO out.

Edited by JobaSet
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1 minute ago, JobaSet said:

The problem is over rated @admin give a few weeks and do nothing and they will move on to some new hack or exploit they can not prove. Everytime you jump on the Wagon of the problem is ---------.  It bite you in the A$$ when you try and fix a problem that is not broke....This is not even close to a Problem on Global as hardly noone even shows up for Port battle. 1 in last 8 pb (8 a guess prob more) Had a good showing, They want to blame everything on something when it utterly and to the point of organization skills. (Teach each other how to fight.)

This is due to low player count, especially on Global.

This is exactly what the devs are trying to fix, make the game more attractive to new players, thus increasing the player base.

But I do believe that they should strive to come up with a solution to merge at least the PVP servers. This should be a priority.

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4 minutes ago, Demsity said:

This is due to low player count, especially on Global.

This is exactly what the devs are trying to fix, make the game more attractive to new players, thus increasing the player base.

But I do believe that they should strive to come up with a solution to merge at least the PVP servers. This should be a priority.

we had almost 300 people on last night our number are actually going up over the last few weeks.   People log on for PB and then are told don't even go noway we can win.  It is truly funny.

Edited by JobaSet
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Just now, JobaSet said:

we had almost 300 people on last night our number are actually going up over the last few weeks.   People log on for PB and then are told don't even go noway we can win.  It is truly funny 

I believe that this is also what the devs are trying to fix, with war companies.

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6 minutes ago, JobaSet said:

we had almost 300 people on last night our number are actually going up over the last few weeks.   People log on for PB and then are told don't even go noway we can win.  It is truly funny 

Because there really is no reason to fight PBs.  You can get 95%+ of resources from home region.  If you have off hour flipping  (which on global the pirates last two were 5am EST and 2am EST) and underpopped nations, why bother.

PBs being the core mechanic to RvR should change.  Its been a failed concept since PotBS.  War companies dont solve it.  I posted my suggestion on page 34 but in short make OW pvp 3 day events for region flipping and PBs for "raids" rewarding them with something.

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Dear Developers!
I was thinking a lot about ur new system. I think it wont solve the problems. The strong guilds will make strong war companies, even if there will be a wipe. They will supress new players (solo players and weak guilds). Why should they get new players in the war companie, while they can get thier strong playerbase and thier mates they friends still? So supressed national players will be supressed again, while u make supressed player base within strong nations too (new players, small, not very active guilds). There is not any balance in the system. The strong will kill the weak.      

I made a far better system, u should investigate it wisely, it solve all ur problems, and its not so hard to be implemented. I made an "alliance" system in it. The system is really simple, repetable, make unique and exciting political situations. It makes the map viable appart from the number of players. Top of all that its super balanced. Dear Developers, this system far better than the war company system, and i think, if u understand it, u will realize that to change to it is far easier.

I suggest a new conquest (ruler) system. The war/play on the map should go for the Ruler of the Caribean title. In my system between two nation there will be 5 type of reletaionship. One can rule the other, they can be equals, or one can protectorate of the other. For example British can rule spanish, spanish can rule british, british can protectorate spanish, spanish can protectorat british, and they can be equals. If british wants to rule spanish, they have to attack one of thier ports and win the port battle. If they rule the spanish, they shouldnt be able to attack any more port, but OS battles will be still enabled. The British should be able to use the spanish resources (with smuggler flag they should be able to bid on thier resources, or maybe they should able to make smuggler outposts in enemy ports can be usable only with trader ships). If the spanish attack back to a british port, and they win, they became equal (they both can attack again, and British smugglers can not bid  in spanish ports again), and if they win another PB (area) against british, they will rule  british (cannot attack them anymore, but can bid on resources). If a nation rule  all others (get one area form all others or lets say win 1 PB against all others, and not lose any), they become the ruler of the caribean, and they win the map. Then should be map and nation status reset (all equals), but every outposts, xp, ships and so one shouldnt be reseted in the starting areas. Now about the protectorate system. When spanish lose a port against british, the spanish "best player" (who made the most combat mark in PB, or/and highest dmg, or just choose from the highest BR ship captains randomly) right after battle should have an opportunity to ask british (ask the best captain of the british) to make protectorate releationship.  The british "best" captain should have an option to decline or accept it till the port became british (24 h). If u give this options to this captains right after the PB, the nations on TeamSpeak, and they can discuss it if they want to have protectorate or not, or they want to reject or accept the offer, and they have 1 day to decide. If there is the spanish request, and its accepted, the protectorate will happen. This status cannot be changed in that map round. If british win the map (the spanish cant, as thier status i just same as the ruled status), they  get 2 conquest mark, all thier protectorates (max protectorate number should be 2) get 1 victory mark. The nations in protectorate relationship can use each other ports for bid, for making outposts and they cannot fight in OS sea battle either (alliance). They should be join into each other PBS, but the flipper nation captains should have a time advantage to join. If a nation win a map round, it shouldnt be protector of any other nation in the next round. In that case to win 1 round after 1 will be super hard.

This system has loads of advantages. Strong nations capable to win has to attack all other nations, and they wont be able to anihilate or supress others (they can get only one area from one nation plus they can make protectorate status).

The wars between nations will go for 1-2 important areas or lets say for winning PB-s, and not for getting huge play areas. It should work like a climbing ladder, win against (rule) 1 nation after 1.  In this system there are big chance that strong nations will deplete thier ship pool for the win, as they need to attack all others and defend against all others. Till the map reset (win) the national areas doesnt change much, so easy nation stay easy, hard nation stay hard even if they are ruler or underdog.  The system has the national balance in itselfs, as the strongest nation always against all others. In this system every nation has its part, because of the protectorate system (forced alliance). This system doesnt bother the cross play, what i think u support nowdays, as smuggler on ruler side still can be attacked, so own a second character on the underdog side still has advantage although in protectorate status this advantage disappear). With this system there is one problem. There can be a situation, when nation(s) with small starting area (especially swedish, US) will have only the capitals at endgame. Solution is easy, when a nation rule  all others but one, the last attack should be on 1st rate port or on the last remaining (not ruled) nation capital. If the main ruler win, the map reset come! There should be some tricky situation, but its not that chaotic, as it seems. For example if swedish, british and spain equals, British attack Cartagena (spanish port) and win, they will rule  spanish. If swedish attack cartagena after that, and take it, they will rule  british, while british still rule  spanish. Another tricky situaton if only US not ruled by British and British  attack thier capital but before attack time they lose one port against another nation. In that case the capital attack should be canceled.  This system simple, isnt it? I dont think has so much game killer side effect that u plan to implement with ur war company system.

If u do this system, u have to make new port battle timer system aswell. I think there should be only 1 PB in every 2 (3) hours. The first nation who reach 100% tension at any port should get the first PB (after 22 h, 24 h or after 26 h, as u wish), next 100% tension port should get after 2 hour from the first PB start ( or more, like max PB time+5 min between  two PBs). If all PB time slot occupied on next day, rising tensions should be stay at 100% (no PB at 100%, and slow tension drop or deny  tension drop at all if they reach 100%) and the nation can grind the tension easily up to PB on the next day, and get the first PB time after that day.

If u do the conqest/ruler system, u have to let nations attack others far from home water, and help to defend or take back thier isolated ports. That wont work, if u dont let players to make outpost at least 1 freetown, with the capability to move there ships automatically (after sailing there for the outpost for sure) and switch to ship there. This can boost OS PVP very much, and if u let only 1 freetown outpost, main force of the nation will have the same freeport, while minor part can do solo trader hunting, smuggling with it. I think my system can work without making this change in freetown outpost system, but i feel it should be better with it. Maybe its not necessary.

Btw the main problem in the game now is not that there are supressed nations. They are still ghost nations, becuse of the mistakes u made u make still (sorry guyz).

U have to make all player life easier, u have to make OS movement easier.

There are a lot of boring sailing time implemented, 99% no action in it. This sailing are mostly ship rearrangement between outpost and for hauling. This OS sailing get players from real action, what is bad for them and for the rest.  Let all type of ships move automatically between outposts without cargo with 1 day penalty. In outposts should be an option to send ships to other outpost. The ships should get "on the way mark", and should arrive in targeted outpost at server reset or after 24 h (to avoid get advantage by fast rearrangement). This can give more active players on sea (PVE, PVP, smuggling, cargo hauling, exploring for outpost and for trading missons) against non active players. Btw automatic movement should help players struggled with ships in contested port aswell (struggling with ur best ship in a contested port can make player leak again, and can weaken low populated nations). Top of that i think ships from contested ports should move to the closest outpost automatically without any player action/intervention, so players after holyday or long work or just  a short break shouldnt get themselfes without thier best ships. I think till u not make OS sail easier, ur player base will always go below critical mass, and ur map wont work again and again appart from that what else u patch. I have that opinion appart form that there are lots of whining against making OS sailing easier. Those whiners are without real life, and im sure they wont leave the game, but normal players will sooner or later if they have to sail hours for some or none action. If u implement teleport system again, that is not good. Then the rearrangement (with no action) still stay in game with boring no action sailing, while u make cargo hauling easier, what is bad for trader hunting gametype.

If u do this all, its not enough. The life in NA is just to hard to enjoy it. U should like 2xthe PVE money reward, 5xthe PVE ship and captain XP reward, 4xthe PVP money reward and 20x the PVP ship XP and captain XP reward.

U should make PVP zones at ports with 50% tension with reward multiplayers to make healthy group PVP.

Best regards ..

Edited by DrZoidberg
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25 minutes ago, Demsity said:

I believe that this is also what the devs are trying to fix, with war companies.

On global Black is "The RVR King" right now, no one will disagree with that.  But it is only 18 guys and maybe 2 gals if we are lucky.  We don't even screen because we don't have the numbers we just kick your ass inside.  You throw a limit on Clan size or what every they are thinking.  And Black will rock everything from left to right and then what ever we call the Clan of Alts will do the same from right to left and drink a beer in the middle.   And we will be right back to where we started.  

The problem is Black and the best of the Nation player understand how the system works.  That maybe a total of 40-50 people on Global server total and that is given a +20 just because number looked to low.

  1. 90% or more of all problems on all server is/are not understanding "the battle" or thinking you do when you are so wrong . (freebee: Shooting chain Should not be your goto move)
  2. The ones that do know don't share this info or train them.(except for Pirates)
  3. If you are new you are assumed an ALT don't matter who you are(unless Joe from my work joins clan and I vouch for him and that only works some), you got to prove your self. The only Major problem for new players they are shunned.
Edited by JobaSet
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19 minutes ago, JobaSet said:

we had almost 300 people on last night our number are actually going up over the last few weeks.   People log on for PB and then are told don't even go noway we can win.  It is truly funny.

While Global numbers have been pretty stable at around 200-300 players it is low.  The biggest issue is most players, is RVR is boring as hell.  

You grind against some NPC ships, for what 2 to 6 hours.   You then wait 22hours for a PB which you sail to and MAYBE fight somebody who might put up a fight.   For what?  You get nothing out of a win, you get less from a loss.    No conquest marks, victory marks are for everyone and are pointless because you can grind boring NPC ships to get those or just PVP and get them.

Then there is the broken mechanics on top of that.

Pirates have the smallest NPC fleets in the game, I dont mean BR wise, I mean in numbers.   They have no trade ships and even less smaller rating ships on the open sea as NPCs.  So grinding hostility up in those regions is a joke at best.   While most nations have some of the largest NPC fleets to have ever sailed the Spanish Main.  

 

I gave up on RVR, because of those reasons.  I knew it after the wipe, and I had hoped things would change with the conquest marks.   But ultimately nothing happened and in typical ADMIN fashion he flopped on the idea like a girl picking out a dress on prom night. 

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46 minutes ago, Demsity said:

This is due to low player count, especially on Global.

This is exactly what the devs are trying to fix, make the game more attractive to new players, thus increasing the player base.

But I do believe that they should strive to come up with a solution to merge at least the PVP servers. This should be a priority.

Than tell me exactly when the Nats where pulling empty Spanish ports you would have 70+ showing up trying to get into the port battles?  Cause you got the conquest marks for free and nothing fought back.  Once folks started to show up and fight back all those PvE guys that hide zipped right into ports.  They are the numbers that other Nation have and think they don't.  If they stop hiding and take their ships out and fight you find out you have way more players than you think you do.  As soon as they took the conquest marks out we noticed even more folks stop showing up.  Why show up to fight if you don't get anything from it and if your nation isn't the top one than you get even less. You can just use Combat Marks to get Victory Marks so no reason to even RvR any more.   What they should do is go back to giving Paint Chest at port battles and for those that fight them and win the map for the week (not the whole nation, just the folks that did them).  Than I bet you will see more folks actually wanting to show up even if they don't win the map for the week you will have more chance to win a price of something no one else has unless they RvR.  Or you can ask to buy them off some one that RvR.

While I don't think it should be key ships needed for Port Battles or OW PvP, but there should be rewards fro folks that only can get through PvP or RvR.  Paints is one of the ways to do this.  The other thing is to have some of the odd ships that can't be in port battles (Niagara good example) that can only be gain through RvR or PvP.  Right now there is no special rewards that Ic an't get for just killing PvE.  Ever game I been on you got the epic gear by doing epic missions.  Or paying some one else that grinds them for the gear and you pay highly for it.  

I'm really tired of us trying to give Participation Trophy's out for folks that do nothing.  

I'l be honest I really did like this concept for ports taken by clans or now War Companies. Keep the safe zones safe and normal, but give the War Companies 25 land grants to put up outpost and building in these regions they capture and than limit the rest to a tax to keep building sin them.   That would give reward for those that actually do the hard work.  Since these area's will have the richer resources and all.

 

Edited by Sir Texas Sir
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9 minutes ago, Hodo said:

While Global numbers have been pretty stable at around 200-300 players it is low.  The biggest issue is most players, is RVR is boring as hell.  

You grind against some NPC ships, for what 2 to 6 hours.   Only because you ur nation is doing it wrong longest on with no PVP 2 hours tops.  Major centers around an hour. You then wait 22hours for a PB which you sail to and MAYBE fight somebody who might put up a fight.   For what?  You get nothing out of a win, you get less from a loss.    No conquest marks, victory marks are for everyone and are pointless because you can grind boring NPC ships to get those or just PVP and get them.

Then there is the broken mechanics on top of that. Do tell I would love more info on this.

Pirates have the smallest NPC fleets in the game, I dont mean BR wise, I mean in numbers.   They have no trade ships and even less smaller rating ships on the open sea as NPCs.  So grinding hostility up in those regions is a joke at best.   While most nations have some of the largest NPC fleets to have ever sailed the Spanish Main.  WOW now your just making Stuff up.  We have same number of fleets everyone else has, again you are doing Hostility wrong.

 

I gave up on RVR, because of those reasons.  I knew it after the wipe, and I had hoped things would change with the conquest marks.   But ultimately nothing happened and in typical ADMIN fashion he flopped on the idea like a girl picking out a dress on prom night. 

 

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12 minutes ago, Hodo said:

 

Pirates have the smallest NPC fleets in the game, I dont mean BR wise, I mean in numbers.   They have no trade ships and even less smaller rating ships on the open sea as NPCs.  So grinding hostility up in those regions is a joke at best.   While most nations have some of the largest NPC fleets to have ever sailed the Spanish Main.  

 

That is not a pirate region only problem that is every national own regions. You hardly see anything bigger than 5th rate ships and maybe a 4th rate.  There have only been a few regions we found 3rd rates and even more rare is the one or two big fleets that have a 2nd rate in it.   Those are normally in the regions worth three points.    It's just retarded how few ships we find in regions. While all the while we are finding ships of every other nation all around the region (which makes it easier to grind down agro).   We use to hit those super fleets pre-patch that have almost as many  ships as epic missions and they would give ups any where from 30-50% agro.   Half the time pre-patch that was what we did when folks though we where war bombing them.  We hit those mega fleets and flip a port in one or two of them.  Now even when you find them they don't have the ships they list, they have up to the BR that list which doesn't match the list of ships.  

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