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Preliminary discussion of the changes to conquest - clan wars are coming

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The entire system creates a safe zone at conquest level, if you didn't notice yet. New players ( or very casual ones ) will always have their nation. Always.

Will give them growing space and warfleets that want to dedicate themselves to smaller tasks, like privateering or trade escort a place to exist in their own niche.

Ports do become important only for the RvR taxation level and raids and denial of entry against equally elevated warfleets.

 

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I think this is the best of current solutions on the table.  I would echo Slamz above, and suggest a war company is joined in addition to a clan, so that one might be in Clan ROVER or clan PURGE but also be in War Company "Napoleon's Guards" (for example)

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6 minutes ago, admin said:

you will be able conquer free towns too and tax them and potentially lock entry to enemy corps.  

This is probably the most impactful change on the list. Highly approve! Can't wait to attack some Free Towns. 

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My initial reaction is that all this really does is shift the problem of population balance, national politics, dealing with grievences, etc. from the Nation level where you see nation flipping regulated by access to forged papers and willingness to move with all their stuff and/or willingness of any individual to want to go through the hassle of re-rolling and any re-leveling that might be required as a result.  Instead it shifts it to the "War Company" level which is now regulated by quit & join timers.

You've not solved any of the underlying problems -- its like you squeeze the middle of the balloon and shift the air to the left and right side of your hand.  The same amount of air is still there as was before.

This would be no different than giving everyone the opportunity to create their own nation and provide limited access to forged papers (except you wouldn't need to move your stuff first).

If your concern is new players don't know what nation to join and just leads to bandwagon nation flips and/or people quitting the game, how does any of this solve that?  

The natural evolution of this will be that you end up with mega-War Company entities which in effect would be no different than what you have today with Nations except now people carry two flags (Nation Flag and War Company) instead of one?

Am I missing something?

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A suggestion to merge to current system with the proposed! @admin

 

Great Britain holds region A. Town A is the capitol of Region A. Region A has 4 ports, Town A, B, C, D.

A Swedish (enemy) war company can only capture Town B, C and D. When these towns are under swedish controlled war companies, Town A will become available for capture. When all the towns are captured by the Swedish war company the region becomes available for RVR conquest. There could also be a limit on the amount of ports a single warcompany can hold in a single region. So multiple war companys must work together in order to do nation conquest.

And for the new players... I dont know a good fix for this too be honest...

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18 minutes ago, admin said:

regions won't change national ownership 
only the controlling chartered war company changes.. 

it will look like this:

Havana region

  • Nation Spain
  • Controlling company - Hanseatic League
  • Governor: Con Shonnery
  • Tax rate 5% 
     

If another clan conquers it it will look like this

Havana region

  • Nation Spain
  • Controlling company: East India Company
  • Governor: Shon Connery
  • Tax rate: 25% 

As Intrepido said below.. NO.

15 minutes ago, Intrepido said:

A BIG NO.

If this game aims to be realistic, wars in the XVIII century were among nations, not between small groups.

Thank you sir well said.

 

This idea, while interesting would lead to more problems than it is worth. It will just lead to CLANs being the only thing that matter, and national pride will mean nothing.   There will be no point in being British, US, Pirate, or Dutch, they will all be the same.  

 

So why have nation chat then, just have clan and global chat.   

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18 minutes ago, admin said:

regions won't change national ownership 
only the controlling chartered war company changes.. 

it will look like this:

Havana region

  • Nation Spain
  • Controlling company - Hanseatic League
  • Governor: Con Shonnery
  • Tax rate 5% 
     

If another clan conquers it it will look like this

Havana region

  • Nation Spain
  • Controlling company: East India Company
  • Governor: Shon Connery
  • Tax rate: 25% 

will this not drive players to flock to the biggest nations, they will more land and so more they are guaranteed entry? 

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2 minutes ago, Intrepido said:

But nationals vs nationals? Come on, that can never end well.

It does not seem to be a huge problem for the Pirates at the moment with outlaw battles.

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Just get rid of nations entirely. Stop pretending the game is based in C18th Earth and we are part of national navies. Stop pretending we are fighting for King and Country. This is a fantasy world where are looking to make a living and to carve out our own 'empires' based on war companies not nations.

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Nothing stops Warfleets from a same nation to draw their lines and play their act, as nationals. But also opens up areas not before possible.

At a Conquest level a rebellion is possible. And if the rebels win, they will "control the spice", no matter what the loyalists say.

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4 minutes ago, admin said:

But it makes its amazingly easy and a bit more stable for new players. New system basically separates normal players from hardcore RVR players without interfering with each other's goals. Normal players just want to play, rvr players want to conquer. Everyone will be happy as a result. 

That was exacly what I was thinking as I read the opening post.

Be in a clan = easy mode

Be in a war comapany = hardcore mode (endgame content)

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1 minute ago, Arsilon said:

My initial reaction is that all this really does is shift the problem of population balance, national politics, dealing with grievences, etc. from the Nation level where you see nation flipping regulated by access to forged papers and willingness to move with all their stuff and/or willingness of any individual to want to go through the hassle of re-rolling and any re-leveling that might be required as a result.  Instead it shifts it to the "War Company" level which is now regulated by quit & join timers.

You've not solved any of the underlying problems -- its like you squeeze the middle of the balloon and shift the air to the left and right side of your hand.  The same amount of air is still there as was before.

This would be no different than giving everyone the opportunity to create their own nation and provide limited access to forged papers (except you wouldn't need to move your stuff first).

If your concern is new players don't know what nation to join and just leads to bandwagon nation flips and/or people quitting the game, how does any of this solve that?  

The natural evolution of this will be that you end up with mega-War Company entities which in effect would be no different than what you have today with Nations except now people carry two flags (Nation Flag and War Company) instead of one?

Am I missing something?

Nations as a whole will form War Companies, I expect.  So all of France will likely be "Napoleon's Guards."  Until a rogue clan tries to take over.  This allows nations to deal with their own issues.  Further, you could have, in the case of Spain on Global, a War Company from the Dutch taxing them at 25%, but then a Swedish War Company coming in and offering to tax it at 5%.

There are a lot of intricacies that have yet to be realized.

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3 minutes ago, Mrgoldstein said:

yeah that is not gonna go well,so basicaly if youre in a war company, all player within the same nation but in a different war company can attack you? this is gonna caus griefing

no.. only war companies can attack same nation war companies. If you are not a member you won't be attacked by the same nation war company and vice versa. 

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7 minutes ago, z4ys said:

yeah could work

Disagree with removing Tax option from Capitals. 

Capitals and Free Towns are where the major profits and trade exist in the game. Taxation discourages alts and promotes defending economic activity. You can adjust the system but you can't divorce it from affecting these ports. 

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1 minute ago, admin said:

no.. only war companies can attack same nation war companies. If you are not a member you won't be attacked by the same nation war company and vice versa. 

Oh I really like the sound of this, it means being part of a war company is truely hardcore mode! 

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5 minutes ago, Hodo said:

As Intrepido said below.. NO.

Thank you sir well said.

 

This idea, while interesting would lead to more problems than it is worth. It will just lead to CLANs being the only thing that matter, and national pride will mean nothing.   There will be no point in being British, US, Pirate, or Dutch, they will all be the same.  

 

So why have nation chat then, just have clan and global chat.   

Agreed - also well said

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1 minute ago, Powderhorn said:

Further, you could have, in the case of Spain on Global, a War Company from the Dutch taxing them at 25%, but then a Swedish War Company coming in and offering to tax it at 5%.

That does sound attractive, actually. Pirates decide to be jerks to everyone and take over all the ports with high tax but it encourages everyone to PvP them nonstop and to provide supporting cover for any war company that promises to push out the Pirate war company and replace it with a lower tax.

Wait..... can people of different nations be in the same war company?

That might be real interesting. British and French decide to team up. They join the same war company and now can take ports together.

 

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Just now, Powderhorn said:

Nations as a whole will form War Companies, I expect.  So all of France will likely be "Napoleon's Guards."  Until a rogue clan tries to take over.  This allows nations to deal with their own issues.  Further, you could have, in the case of Spain on Global, a War Company from the Dutch taxing them at 25%, but then a Swedish War Company coming in and offering to tax it at 5%.

There are a lot of intricacies that have yet to be realized.

I get there is potential, but what I don't get is why you need to complicate it with all these new entities and rulesets.  You could add all those same mechanics at the nation level as you can at the War Company level.  Heck you could just add a "PVP" and "RVR" flag to each character in addition to the "Smuggler" flag and end up with a very similar scenario.

We discussed the Port Governer idea way back and it wasn't adopted for a reason.  It is an overly complicated mechanic that doesn't solve any of the underlying problems.  It just shifts where you have to deal with them to the left or right.

 

 

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So basically no more Britain vs Spain or Danes vs Swedes?

Instead a "civil war" inside a Nation?

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While discussing taxes, it should also be considered to include exponential taxes on port holders for maintenance.  Own one region?  10,000 gold a day.  Own ten regions?  1,000,000 gold a day.  Otherwise they cast off their war company.

Would go a long way to prevent hegemonies.

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Just trying to come up with questions I or others may have.

Can you be a part of a clan and not in a war company if your other clanmates are in that company?

i.e. Anne, clan Purge, War Company :none,  Slamz: clan Purge War company: French Revolution

Can you be a part of a nation but be in a war company with members from other nations?

IE John Doe, US, War Company: Freedom Fighters, Sven, Sweden, War Company: Freedom Fighters

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Just now, rediii said:

I hope it will be possible so navalaction realy becomes a big sandbox and companies made up by different clans form, clash and fall. :) It would make everything realy dynamic ... I like it.

EVE with sails.  and I'm ok with that.  The game needs more players to test a system like this.  I think it's time to merge the servers and get the band back together @rediii  :-)

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