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Preliminary discussion of the changes to conquest - clan wars are coming


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2 minutes ago, Sir Texas Sir said:

If a small scrub clan of new guys are able to build/afford the cost to pull the flag than what worry would a big harder vet clan in fighting them?

In support of this, it would be interesting if the "cheaper" ports had different number of ship PBs; 6 ships, 12 ships, 25 ships, etc.  A small war company could probably get really good at capturing cheap 6 man PB ports.  No reason to limit them to shallow water.

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Hello Captains. We would like to share some information on the potential changes to conquest.  Current Problems New player experience is uneven and heavily depends on the nation you join.

current system does not work. If player joins spain on PVP Global he leaves like in 1-2 days. Because he sees that he can never win. Basic game design rule - if perceived chance to win the game is 0 t

another statement on the wipe There will be no wipe. only map reset. In fact there might be no wipes any more even on release. But its not a promise. 

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1 minute ago, Peter Goldman said:

Not if there is a timer. How do you want to have 3 port battles in 2-4 hours window? Possible, if the attackers fail so hard that they have to bail out after 30 minutes :) Remember that planting flag takes 30 minutes + sailing time.

I got a question to @admin, since planting flag takes 30 minutes (PB fleet needs to sit outside port for 30 mins), what would prevent defender to undock with bigger ships and destroy enemies before PB starts? Let's say Belize is a 4th rate. I order my company to have 1st rates there. When attacker starts planting flag, we undock in 25 1st rates and simply smash them. Planting and chasing flags was always a problem in my opinion. 

I kinda like the fact the pulled flags gave you a 2 hour notice that a port battle might happen and than you had to get it there in that time.  Than once there i takes 2 mins to plant. If it takes 30 mins to plant than your going to prob get steamed rolled or grief in battles until your timer runs out.   

It think limit of flags pulled at once by a Company and cool down between flags would help limit false flags among other things, but 30 mins wait needs to be be better explained as your example is exactly what I know my clan would do.

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Battle Groups can engage Battle Groups with numbers/BR curve never inferior. Battle Group is the Flag and goes towards the objective. How can they get "grief" if the enemy is prepared with a equal relative strength Battle Group to intercept ? 

What am I missing ?

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What is really done for new players? I still can't see it. They will still be hunted in front of their capital/ safe zone. Thats where ow pvp player hang around. They dont care about dots or port ownership or resoruces. These changes are all about RvR that is when i quote admin just a minority of players. Where are the changes to keep new players into the game? Please explain it to me. What will change for new players?

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Is there a way to add a new shallow system?

I always found stupid to be able to camp in a first rate in front of a "4th rate" only port. It makes bigger rate aist have to counter the flags when the fleet for the pb can't be as heavy. It's really not realistic. If the port can't be reach by bigger ships, why could those want stay in front of the port?

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On 02/08/2017 at 4:57 PM, admin said:

Current guilds will be able to enter to ally - forming war corporations

Thanks!

On 02/08/2017 at 4:57 PM, admin said:

Nations will allow chartered war companies to freely attack each other even if they belong to the same nation. This will allow chartered war companies to settle score between each other if they believe someone is interfering with their chartered activities

  • This feature will make ROE hell. It is impossible to make it work while keeping it simple at the same time. To make it work nations mush be removed or pve player class created (NCO rank who cannot pvp and cannot be attacked)
  • To keep national unity War corporations will not be able to attack each other on the open seas if they are in the same nation
  • But War corporations will be able to fight each other for control of the ports (only in port battles) 

Thanks!

Though I had an idea if you wanted the ability to settle scores after all. Make the pirate flag, or similar, something that nationals can hoist for a limited time, (and only while docked in neutral ports). That way they become enemy to their own nation in OW (and clearly indicated as such), and able to attack their own nation's players. Hoisting the fake pirate flag cannot be reversed for a set period of time, perhaps a week. So you really net to know that you want to be pirate for a while if you do it. 

Not sure if this is viable or useful mechanic though.

On 02/08/2017 at 4:57 PM, admin said:

Chartered war companies will not have a warehouse but will use a special port warehouse assigned to a war company by a port (1 warehouse per region)

  • Because warehouse is city based if another chartered war company conquers the city (takes control) it will gain access to that warehouse with all belongings including tax money. 
  • This means the chartered war company will lose all tangible assets (with the exception of ships) if they lose the port to another clan
  • Removed as fake feature - it is very easy to avoid losing assets in port by moving to peaceful friends or alts
  • to make this feature work we would have to reduce quality of life for other warehousing services and we don't want it. 

Thanks. I was struggling to think of how this would work.

On 02/08/2017 at 4:57 PM, admin said:

Captains joining war companies will have to serve a minimum time period and will not be able to exit the company for certain time

  • After exit they won't be able to rejoin a company for a certain time (to avoid jumping back and forth between war companies).

This was not necessary. Good that it was removed. War Companies have to expect of their member clans that they vet players they recruit, preventing alts, and jumping from war company to war company will require that you are actually accepted into a new var company.

On 02/08/2017 at 4:57 PM, admin said:

In this matter we recommend captains to not sweat much about conquest until this feature is done because map will be reset to its original state once this is implemented. 

I really don't agree with this, and I don't think you should say so. Conquest is no more or less meaningfull/meaningless now that we know the map will be reset in an undetermined amount of time. We should still pay, enjoy and test the conquest system we have now until a new one is in place. I don't want another 4 months of a dead game RvR-wise while we wait for a new map wipe. Everyone already knew that another map wipe, at least one, was coming at some point. Just because it has been written that it is specifically something being worked towards now, doesn't mean that conquest is any less meaningful than it was a week ago. 

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15 minutes ago, Sir Texas Sir said:

Limiting it to one high rank isn't good, but maybe doing stage or ranks depending on the port might work better.

Don't split hairs man, just admit his idea was good and need some tweaking. Not sure why everyone is always right or wrong on these topics, some ideas are good and just need some minor adjustments. 
 

 

15 minutes ago, Peter Goldman said:

Not if there is a timer. How do you want to have 3 port battles in 2-4 hours window? Possible, if the attackers fail so hard that they have to bail out after 30 minutes :) Remember that planting flag takes 30 minutes + sailing time.

Again, I'm not sure if I follow everything you are saying, but I'll give it a try. If WC A pulls a flag on a port owned by WC X, at the same time WC B does the same thing for another port owned by WC X and WC C pulls the 3rd flag on WC X, how do they defend all 3? At this time nations can't do it, so how would we assume WCs could. The worst part is there is a chance that they would all be good flags and the WCs would attack with a full 25 man fleet. So WC X is defending 3 ports against 75 players. 

 

Edited by Daguse
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Just now, Peter Goldman said:

We talk about 1 port and 3 flags targetting one port. First come - first serve rule. If one company fails, another can try after. You obviously cannot have 3 port battles in one port at the same time.

ahhh ok, yes I think that is fair. 

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38 minutes ago, Sir Texas Sir said:

The convo was if they limit pirates to shallow water and light ships than they need to limit the use of pirate like ships to Nationals since you don't want us in SOL, than you shouldn't be in our ships either.   Pirates should be the master of light ships and light frigates while Nationals should be the master of the Heavy frigates and SOL.  Until they give us a proper mechanics than stop bitching that was aren't pirate enough.   If your going to put restrictions on us than Nationals should be restricted in some way too.

Rank isn't exactly a good thing, cause remember a rank 3 can do shallow water battles.  So why shouldn't a bunch of new players that make a war company be able to pull a flag for shallow waters?  Maybe do a tier for the type of port the flag belongs too.

Rank 3+ for shallow water.

Rank 6+ for deep water.

Rank 8+ for SOL ports.

I would consider turning pirate if they simply limited crew to 500-600 max, able to capture ships but not able to crew fully SOL's and give proper raiding mechanics instead of conquests, causing troubles in some areas, stopping all production buildings and trader NPC deliveries for a few weeks, NPC shops not having resources renewed and buildings locked during this delay, and maybe also able to be hired by some Nations for a certain time to cause troubles on them enemies supply lines by raiding them and stopping them production lines, this will be something very interesting from my point of view.

 Pirates will have capturable Mortimer town as second capital... beside the main capital being shallow nothing seems to change for them tho... If they really wanted to limit SOL's for pirates they had done something to force this, removing BP's only was only a farce...

As for pirate frigate there is no valid reasons to have it completely outclassing an essex in game and getting a so low BR and xp requirements, no reasons at all, this is undefendable no matter from which point you take the equation, getting a  boarding bonus ok, getting a bit more speed ok, all the rest ? nope


 

Edited by Kanay
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4 minutes ago, Anolytic said:

I really don't agree with this, and I don't think you should say so. Conquest is no more or less meaningfull/meaningless now that we know the map will be reset in an undetermined amount of time. We should still pay, enjoy and test the conquest system we have now until a new one is in place. I don't want another 4 months of a dead game RvR-wise while we wait for a new map wipe. Everyone already knew that another map wipe, at least one, was coming at some point. Just because it has been written that it is specifically something being worked towards now, doesn't mean that conquest is any less meaningful than it was a week ago. 

I'll be honest if this ends up like the last patch and takes 5-6 months to put into effect like the last one we will have dead servers again in half that time as folks stop playing as there will be no reason to continue conquest system if it's all going to change.

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7 hours ago, admin said:

Additional wipe announcement. There will be no asset resets/removals or wipes during this rework. Only map will reset (which will cause some inconvenience when moving resources).

question to the Admin/dev!

please just write the number of point that will be wiped/reset

1) owned ships

2) personal warehouses resources

3) personal Golds

4) Xp and rank

5) Crafting Xp and rank

6) ships blue prints acquired and learned

7) acquired permit

8) personal dock capacity and spend gold to extend it

9) personal warehouses capacity and spend gold to extend it

10) unlocked number of outpost and spend gold to extend it

11) combat marks and it's value

12) unlocked ship knowledge

13) owned upgrades

14) shipyard lvl 3 and all spend gold/resourses to extend it

thks in advance for your answer and hope that you repect the great value of time spended by players in the game ...

Edited by SUN
forgot 1 point
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2 minutes ago, SUN said:

question to the Admin/dev!

please just write the number of point that will be wiped/reset

1) owned ships

2) personal warehouses resources

3) personal Golds

4) Xp and rank

5) Crafting Xp and rank

6) ships blue prints acquired and learned

7) acquired permit

8) personal dock capacity and spend gold to extend it

9) personal warehouses capacity and spend gold to extend it

10) unlocked number of outpost and spend gold to extend it

11) combat marks and it's value

12) unlocked ship knowledge

13) owned upgrades

14) shipyard lvl 3 and all spend gold/resourses to extend it

thks in advance for your answer and hope that you repect the great value of time spended by players in the game ...

As I read, nothing wiped. Just map reset.  

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1 hour ago, Sir Texas Sir said:

Those are fleet ships though of a fleet commander and what I see the reason we have multi ships.  To me we aren't the actual captain of every ship we own.  We are the commanders of the fleet.  Though my point was more the fact if you want to restrict pirates and not have proper pirate mechanics than other nationals need to be restricted too in some way.  Most guys that play nationals always come up with mechanics for pirates to restrict them, but nothing in return to give some restrictions to Nationals.  One of them would be that nationals can't capture ships.  We can easily make this a limit that they can't capture any ships over 4th or 5th rates and keep them.  That would be something only Pirates and Privateers would do is keep such ships if they are better than the ones they have.   For the naval officers (none pirates) that capture a ship they could get paid a bigger cash prize when they turn the ship into port, but they can't keep it.  IF they do it will be classed as a pirated ship and if they get  caught in it be turned into pirates.  You see what I'm getting to?  There needs to be some check and balance to the game.  The nationals can't have all the goodies if they want to restrict pirates to level 1 ship yards and any ship under 5th (even 6th rates) that isn't captured.

Hell I live out of captured ships if I'm allowed to refit them how I want once I captured any ship begger than a 6/5th rate.  A refitted ship can be just like the Pirate frigate ship.  Less armor, more guns and more crew.

First tell me one pirate who actually used a ship bigger than the Queen Ann's Revenge, which was a corvette 5th rate, or about the size of the Cerberus/Renomee.   And I am not talking a one off use, I am talking as their ACTUAL flag ship.   

Most pirates sailed around in armed merchant vessels of 6th rate and 7th rate classes.  Brigs, and Schooners.  

Why?  Because they were cheap, easily available, and the MOST common vessel on the sea.   And no one looked twice at a brig sailing through an area.  People tend to get a little worried when a armed military frigate comes sailing on their aft quarter.   

I think the pirate frigate should go away personally and bring back the rattlesnake for pirates.  

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This game's population is barely able to support full PBs and you think about restricting access to them?

 

Also nice idea on the Taxes. Yet another thing you are taking from that game you wanted to take nothing from.

I like how it's already impossible to sell repairs in the shop for decent profit because your contract might just get blocked by the AI by putting in a bunch of repairs at a ridiculous price of around 450 per item.   A price increase on the production of the logs, iron and hemp for repairs due to taxes? What's not to love?

Edited by Quineloe
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2 hours ago, Peter Goldman said:

Yea, let's make them able to sail only 6th rates and 7th rates... I am a privateer (technically legal pirate) under the British nation and I got no limitations other than outlaw battles. Why would I play as pirate? Give me 3 reasons, I will wait.

1)Disney

2)A cool Flag

3)Role Play

 

I'm only half kidding.  Dont underestimate these 3 things.

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"Reinforcements in coastal ports will come back to game (as fleets no longer give xp)"

 

What does that mean, fleets no longer give exp? I don't see any announcement in the notes about taking exp away from anything.

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26 minutes ago, Peter Goldman said:

Cool flag? We can't even customize it, I look exactly the same as every other silly pirate scam. 

Role play? I'm only serving for His Majesty King George, you silly rat! Excuse me, I meant goat! Any goats don't deserve pardon, they will be hunted and hanged.

Disney? Not a clue what's behind that. I know we got Hello Kitty in NA, but haven't heard of Disney yet, a new feature? @admin should also add mechanic to forums and chats in-game to replace everytime some types "alt; alts"  with Papa Smurf and "gank; gankers; ganking" with Donald Duck. 

'10 Donald Ducks incoming to KPR!'

'Stop using Papa Smurfs to exploit the game, you filthy cheater!'

Maybe you haven't seen how many variations of "Jack Sparrow" characters have been created?  

Again, for everyone like myself, and probably you, who are drawn to some sense of historical accuracy, there are equal amounts that want to "play pirate"...

just my $.02

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31 minutes ago, Intrepido said:

I´d prefer the removal of several nations that strange and fictional new locations.

Also we lack the playerbase to make them choice 8 factions. Dont you see this fact when you look at the map of both servers?

 

This right here.  

We dont need Sweden or the Danes in this game.  They had literally zero impact on the Caribbean in the 18th and 19th century.

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8 minutes ago, Hodo said:

This right here.

We dont need Sweden or the Danes in this game.  They had literally zero impact on the Caribbean in the 18th and 19th century.

First delete the Pirates and US talking about realistic powers in that area for that time...

Hands of Sweden!
 

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Round two of admin's changes I think are an improvement over round 1.

I see how you are trying to create more focused pvp and outlying support areas that are more stable, and that could be a good thing.  But in order to support that, I really think you need to have a look over the constant suggestions of a reputation system.  This will provide great support to what I think your goals are here.  At least respond with your thoughts admin on whether you think it's viable or should be disregarded.

Edited by Jean Ribault
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2 hours ago, sveno said:

First delete the Pirates and US talking about realistic powers in that area for that time...

Hands of Sweden!
 

The US was a power during this time.  The War of 1812, proves that.  

Pirates should be removed as a nation and that topic has been broached several times already.  

Seeing as this games time frame is roughly from 1750-1825.   So with that stated, Pirates, Sweden and Denmark should not be nations, or even powers in this region.   

It should come down to 3 MAJOR factions with 2 minor factions.  Great Briton, Spain, and France as major players in the region.   United States and the VP should be minor powers in the region.  

ALL new characters should start in one of the three major nations.  Vets can choose to leave the 3 major powers and move out to the minor factions or go pirate which will be factionless.  

 

Edited by Hodo
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A reputation system is the way to go - a la Elite:Dangerous. That works and allows plenty of player choice on career and allegiance as well as encouraging player interactions.

If we are happy to take good ideas from EVE then why not take good ideas from other very successful games?

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8 minutes ago, Hodo said:

 

It should com down to 3 MAJOR factions with 2 minor factions.  Great Briton, Spain, and France as major players in the region.   United States and the VP should be minor powers in the region.  

ALL new characters should start in one of the three major nations.  Vets can choose to leave the 3 major powers and move out to the minor factions or go pirate which will be factionless.  

 

This as well

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1 hour ago, Hodo said:

First tell me one pirate who actually used a ship bigger than the Queen Ann's Revenge, which was a corvette 5th rate, or about the size of the Cerberus/Renomee.   And I am not talking a one off use, I am talking as their ACTUAL flag ship.   

This is how I feel about it as well. Making Pirates a Nation where its player base can become a RA and have the ability to sail a 1st rate is a problem. If it were a faction where you had to gain a bad reputation to be branded a Pirate, you know like in real life, you could penalize them by giving them crew restrictions so they couldn't sail anything larger than say a 4th rate. But, I would also give them access to something like a "Pirate Refit" that allows them to put larger cannons on gun decks to help make it worth their while.

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